[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Andrej]

Vote Count 2.7

Shad (2) - Kivam, Hallia
dicetosser1 (1) - Leelou
Sooh (2) - Talya, Darthe
Leelou (1) - dicetosser1

Not Voting (5) - Thane Vakarian, Seph, AlannaLynn, Shad, Sooh

 

6 to lynch.

Deadline: 9pm PST Tuesday August 11th

[Leelou]

Glad you chose the week I'm away to vote me and suspect me. If you have any concrete questions for me I'll try to respond to them, other than that I can't do much this week. If you want to lynch a wolf you're going to have to look elsewhere. I'm not a wolf this time. I also have pretty much no time for casing until Saturday, so if you want my help you better keep me alive until then. If not, well, not much I can do about it right now while on vacation.

 

I don't know if I have very clear town or mafia tells yet, but you just have to read me and see if there's anything in what I've done so far that is mafia motivated.

Meh, so if we decided to vote you we could either get a blind lynch or have you hold up the game til Saturday deciding on you?

[Sooh]

If you do decide to vote me and have actual questions that I can respond to I'll do my best to respond asap, but I can't really do much in terms of defending myself or casing other people until Saturday unfortunately. 

[Talya]

Kiv - off to bed now but will try to answer a few.

 

Those names where ones I wasn't sure on and I didn't like their vote on Tina. With Dice, more for not getting a good read on him before, but also nonvoter.

 

I still need to do isos on Leelou, Alanna. Not getting good vibes from Leelou. She would be one of the lower ones atp.

 

Gun to head WTL Sooh, Leelou, Hally right now.

 

Want to see more town solve from Shad, seems narrow focused right now.

 

On the whole Darthe is growing on me. You leave me crossed eyed, not good at long wrangled words.

 

Thane another need to read over.

 

Still happy where my vote is.

[Talya]

Sooh - I did ask you questions, you can start there.

[Sooh]

ISOing Sooh..

 

 

 

 

I really liked the interaction between the two of them.

Sooh is probably my stongest town read, her tone is great, she isn't posting cautiously. She is all around towny in my eyes!

 

I'm kind of agreeing with you on this one.  Tone is strikingly different from Alien and SW.  Sooh, are we team mates for once?

 

I hope so.. If you're town we are. 

 

I'm a bit irked by the way you've been using semantics against Seph so far in this game. To me Seph reads like trying to kickstart the game and wanting to get reactions, which he has gotten in spades. Not sure how people are reading this as a scummy move. 

 

*snip*

 

[v] Seph [/v]

 

 

And hi Shad! I don´t think I have played with you before. I fear I will mix you and Seph in my head. 

I don't like this vote. 

 

Also not a fan of Shad's vote on Seph. 

 

I'm not ready to go out and hard defend Seph, but I don't see anything scummy in what he's doing. He's poking and prodding and getting people to react to him. Actually Shad's vote on Seph is probably one of the more emotionally involved votes I've seen Shad make. 

 

*snip*

 

Bolded Blue - What Semantics? The post you quote doesn't really say anything

 

Bolded Green - How do you know that he wasn't doing this as Mafia? You seem so staunch he is Town, in fact no criticism of the situation at all, except on everyone else. What do you think of his reduced participation since this took place?

 

Bolded Black - This is the Not Hard defending Seph, In fact ends up being his body guard whenever anyone brought this up again.

 

 

 

Blue - The whole twisting words that was going on from the beginning of the game. I'm aware it's not present in that particular post. I can pick it out for you if you want me to, but right now it's midnight and I'm on vacation, so it won't be until tomorrow. 

 

Green - I don't know that he isn't mafia. All I know is that at that point in the game he hadn't done anything that made me lean mafia, and to be honest he still hasn't. He is towny to me. Him not participating much lately hasn't pinged me, but I'll take a closer look at him when I get the chance. 

 

Black - Really? I just don't think he's mafia. I defend my town reads. It would be amazingly silly of me as mafia to hard defend a team mate like that. 

 

*snip*

 

Shad somewhat pings me to start off with here. His responses are far more guarded and cautious than I'm used to from him. This isn't just based on the Seph vote, but his reactions to Kivam too in the discussion they have from #98 and onwards. 

 

I would peg #106 from Seph more a snipe at Darthe than anything to really take too seriously, but #107 from Kivam seems to be taking this extremely seriously. I know Kivam has discussed semantics with several players, so for now I'm just going to assume he's doing it to get reactions, and not that it's scum trying to jump on every little thing they see that could throw suspicion on someone else. I could read it both ways. Going to give him the benefit of the doubt for today, especially since he's not here to defend himself at EOD. I most definitely would like to look into him for tomorrow though. Too many things just look like scum trying to misrep to get an easy lynch. Hopefully I'll be able to find one more suspect before EOD so I don't have to place my vote here. (yes, I know. It's contradictory.)

 

People also spend a whole lot of time discussing Seph's joke/reaction vote on Darthe. To me the two aren't mutually exclusive. It can be a joke vote on a person, but you may also hope that that person will react to you in a certain way and help that to inform your read. I guess I just don't see Seph as scummy in this case. 

 

Read and commented up to page 10. I'm going to the store to buy junkfood and then I'll be back to tackle the rest of the thread. 

 

Bolded above - reread the 106 qand 107, I can see why Kivam thought it was serious, Seph was responding to Darthe's wolf between Thane and him, Seph's post looks like he was reacting to it rather than joking. As for Kivam wanting reactions, he's a lawyer, it's the way he thinks and plays - no matter his alignment. It is very contradictory, not seeing how you come up with what you do. First part sounds like you think what he is doing is null, but wanting to lynch him, but won't because he's not here...sounds more like a cop out.

 

 

 

Sooh - who are your WTL D2 and Who are your town?

 

To the bolded comments - I don't know Kivam. This game is the first time I have interacted with him. His RL profession is not something I'm aware of. I am a teacher, and as such used to not take things too literally, but instead trying to figure out the motivation behind people's words. I suppose that's why we clash. 

 

I don't like lynching people who can't defend themselves. I know I helped doing that to Dice in the HP game, and to be fair all the lynched I got to take a part in there ended up with people not defending themselves. Left me with kind of a foul taste in my mouth although I was happy when we managed to lynch mafia. 

 

I'm not in a position right now to give you a WTL or a town list. When I am I'll let you know. For now I think Kivam, Shad and Seph probably are town. Other than that I don't know. Probably Hallia town. The rest are nulls to me at this point. 

[Shad_]

More on Kivam and more to come, hopefully tonight. Dice and Talya have been under my radar for a while and I want to look at them after I'm done with this behemoth:

 

Catching up. I see from the opening posts that Tina is a dead townie; that wasn't anywhere near on the radar when I signed off for Shabbos so I'm going to read through the thread and react to posts as I see them to see if that helps make sense of it.
 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

All due respect, Seph, this is silly. Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.
darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!
I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.
[unvote]
[v] kiv[/v]

 

And this is also silly. (Not the vote, but the thought process). Mafia members don't make or post "reads". Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum). But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

I disagree. 1) townies dont know who the scum are. some people and this relates to your confirmed townies call list thing want people to give their reads so they can hold them to those and use it as a baseline to watch how they develop/change etc. therefore scum need to give reads to appear like everyone else. 2) Scum still have to make reads. how else do they pick out the cop/doc/whateva before a claim? 3) if you make no reads in thread or you fencesit on reads all the time you get lynched. therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched.

the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg

re mafia knowing alignments in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for


what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

 

This reads to me like deliberate misinterpretation and spin.

1) Everyone claims to be making alignment reads. But only townies actually make alignment reads. Scum fake alignment reads. That's not a distinction without a difference; inconsistencies and other nuances are key to identifying fake reads and catching scum.

2) Equivocation. Alignment reads and role reads are two completely different things. And in a game like this, with only a 1x cop and no doc (and yes, until proven otherwise I'm assuming scum didn't do something stupid with their role selections), role reads aren't as important for scum until much closer to endgame.

3) "therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched." No. No, no, no, no, no. Scum fake reads to avoid getting lynched.

4) "the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg". Sure. Because I guarantee you BFG is the N1 kill if she's actually a townie. Clear consensus town, not a whiff of suspicion headed her way - and that means that unless she's scum, scum have no reason at all to keep her around. Of course, that could lead to a WIFOM, and you all know how much I love those when I play as scum, but that doesn't seem to be the way most of DM plays as scum these days from what I've seen, so ... yeah. I'm assuming BFG isn't going to be around very long.

5) "re mafia knowing alignments in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for" This, right here, was the pingiest of all parts of your post. So I'm right about scum knowing alignments in this game (which is the one we're currently playing) but you're looking to argue with me about whether that's true in all games? Who the hell cares? If this was a mafia theory thread that would be a really excellent point - but in a game thread, where all you should be caring about is how to approach this game we are currently playing, it makes no difference at all. This reads like pure spin and an attempt to throw as much suspicion at me before deadline on a D1 where you know I can't come back and respond before getting lynched. I have no idea yet how close that came, but it's scummy as hell and you are immediately at the top of my personal suspect pile.

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.

Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

as above yes gives a baseline to look at people on. If i list BFG as town then suddenly start voring her for no apparent reason i get questions to answer as to why. this allows people to get a bead on me.

 

Again, pingy as hell. In a game with no doctor, consensus townies - which are the most important players to have alive at endgame - are dead meat. Easy kill targets, to make LYLO and MYLO go better for scum. Personally, I'm going to treat this game like my Avatar game - I'll be coming after even the people I think are the clearest townies because I want to give them a bit of cover. I think we all ought to be identifying our scumreads and shutting the hell up about who we're most certain is town. It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for scum to identify and kill consensus townies if we do it that way - and the "of course we should be naming townies" response from you (and Laine) could very easily be scum trying to ensure a clean kill list. Do. Not. Like.

 

 

Scum reading Dice for "deliberately misinterpreting" him and disagreeing with the no town reads plan (more on that below). I'm not thrilled about either of them on the main discussion here. The whole thing seems very... petty.

 

 

Kiv, explain to me how you "trapped" Seph in a way that did not at any point intentionally misinterpret what he had to say.

Now this would definitely qualify as a deliberate misinterpretation, since I've been pretty damn clear that the trap was for later potential bandwagon jumpers, not Seph. There was never a trap for Seph, since the vote on him to start was a straight vote, and only morphed into a trap for bandwagon jumpers once he posted a credible explanation for the things I found suspicious.

 

 

Kivam talked about "the Seph push and trap". I asked this question. I am "deliberately misinterpreting" him. He is very eager to call anyone scum who misses a step on first read of his long and technical posts.

 

 

Ok, at this point I think I have Thane, Seph and (oddly) Talya as town leans. So I guess it's time to reread.

Kivam, I see what you're saying about not stating town reads, but I work via POE as much as anything else, so not stating town reads means I'm not going to be posting much of anything by means of an actual solve.

Thank you. Somebody gets it. It's one thing to say "I see the risk but it's worth it". It's something else entirely to say "of course we should hand the scum a prioritized kill list. Why wouldn't we?"

 

 

First glance I feel alright about this. Looks like Kivam was waiting for someone to humor his argument from a pro town angle. If he drops it at this point, that will be a good sign too. Do his reactions add up?

Laine's argument: Consensus towns are going to be obvious to scum anyway so we might as well name them.

Reaction: Scum lean (mentioned in his response to Dice)

Dice's argument: Town reads give us a baseline so that we can detect inconsistent play.

Reaction: Scum lean

Hallia's argument: "I see the benefit in posting both, and think it's pretty important"

Reaction: Restates his argument, asks for other's thoughts.

BFG's argument: Kivam makes a decent point, but we all work from POE. It's how we solve.

Reaction: This is the pro-town response he's been waiting for.

How does Dice's response merit a scum lean here? I kind of think it's the best one. I mean, if this was intended as a test (and if it was, I don't personally put much stock in it), shouldn't Laine's response stand alone as the worst here and Dice's be at least on par with BFG?

Kivam, why was Dice's response particularly scummy to you here?

[Kivam]

OK, doing a DiceO:
 
Post 8 - checks in
 
10, 14, 29 - banter
 
60, 62 (dbl post), 65, 66 - towncore banter, plus "Talya are you town?"  (Seriously, why do people bother with this?)
 
184 - Banter with BFG, question's Darthe's "one of Thane or Seph are dirty" claim
 
202 - Smacks Seph in the head with a sign that says "CLARITY".  Soft defense, but given that I believed Seph's explanations by then, I'm ok with that.
 
204 - Says he won't be voting Seph D1, is looking at Shad. (Note to self ... any follow through?)
 
205 - Talks tone with Tina (say that five times fast).
 
208 (after BFG lightly townreads him @ 206) - says BFG should go ahead and mark him town
 
213 - Asks BFG if he should be worried about her
 
227 - Asks Key for a DL countdown clock
 
233 - Banter
 
329 - the post I already picked apart.
 
330 - tells Seph what he did wasn't a "soul read"
 
501 - Responding to Thane (who said that he doubts Dice, and when he does Dice is usually scum) Dice says "sometimes true. also true is that you often doubt me when you are mafia."
 
502 - Responds to an accusation of inactivity by saying: 1) he has a life; and 2) there's been nothing to comment on.  Both of those statements are filthy lies.
 
539 - Directed at me - backs off, says arguing semantics is the result of arguing semantics, and also says Thane is setting off alarm bells for suspecting him:
 

kiv we may just have to agree to disagree but i will say if you want to focus on semantics dont be surprised if people give you semantics back.
 
 
BFG  Thane set off an alarm bell for me. When he starts doubting me   with one exception that comes to mind  I start worrying

 
541, 44, 48 - night banter
 
565 - can support his Thanespicions only with meta
 
575 - Thanks Alanna for defending him (note: despite the defense - and there was enough of it that I was seriously considering a Dice + Laine scum team - after reading this post I can't imagine that Dice and Alanna are scummates; at most one of the two is scum.  would be way, way too ballsy to thank a teammate for defending)
 
582 - banter
 
588 is worth quoting
 

if id been here for DL the only way i vote tina is consolidation. There was no REASON to lynch her.  But saying that im not really feeling the flow of this game   am a bit unattached to it so not sure how good my reads are. Im really looking for D2 as a fresh start  start putting pieces together4 once we get info
 
i have peeps i think are town
 
Seph Laine BFG   nut no real good possibilities for mafia.  Um a little wary on leelou just cause she doesnt seem to have much content but i cANT really talk either

 

Note that Dice was specifically asked (by Alanna at 587) for thoughts on Shad.  The player Dice said at 204 he was looking at closely - and then never mentioned again.  Dice doesn't provide any specifics on Shad.

 

590:

 

 

 

i thought sooh sounded light hearted at game start which is a good sign but i dont have a lot of memory of her. Whether thats my fault or not im not sure
 
Hally  i dunno. i noticed one post where she was kinda sus on me but i dont know why other then that i feel like its just been fluff pieces.  I sux at reading hally tho

 

Wishy-washy on both, still no response re Shad

 

592 FROM ALANNA pushes for an answer on Shad:

 

 

 

I'm just wondering if y'all were to guess town or mafia on Shad right now, which would you pick, based on on what you've read so far on the game and without spending an hour in his ISO. lol

 

Dice response at 594:

 

 

 

shad   mafia but thats my head not my gut and that makes a difference

 

and then 596:

 

 

 

im saying my gut is right more often then my head is. i tend to overthink things

 

Going to cut off the Iso here to avoid quote limits, and continue with part 2.

 

[Kivam]

Picking up part 2 of the DiceO with another quote (609)
 

 

 

im saying my gut is right more often then my head is. i tend to overthink things

I can't very well trust your gut to be right, I need support to back it up. I'm a factual person: gut feels are okay and all, but you gotta be able to back them up with evidence.

 

 
yeah i know. problem is i suck at casing.  Just go this way  if i suddenly do what i did to you?? take a good look at my target and make up ure own mind

 

612, 616 - talk about glasses

613 - "my guts not really saying anything. thats the problerm lol"

623 - Defends Shad from an attack by BFG (unless I'm misreading this entirely, since it's a reference to another game I haven't seen, but that's what it looks like.  @Dice - clarity?)

 

627 - claims he tried to get up for deadline but couldn't make it

 

Going to link this post of BFG's at 629; she ISOs Dice, and essentially has seen a lot of the things that are pinging me about Dice as I'm doing this reread.  This is making me more confident that what I'm seeing is actually there.

 

630 - Dice denies using me as an excuse, says he just doesn't understand me

 

762 - Responds to Talya's ISO on him.  Now has Thane as a townread - @Dice, if you're town what changed from "Thane only misreads me when he's scum"?- WTL me and Leelou (the two people who've really got him high on their scum reads) but "for no good reasons".  Me because he can't read me, and Leelou because Oh My God She Sux.  @Dice, what happened to having Shad as scum "with your head"?  Places his first vote in the game ... on Leelou.

 

763 - repeats the claim about deadline and alarm clocks

 

767 - back at Leelou, accuses her of being a hypocrite since she has low post content too

 

768 - Says Thane's no lynch stance is his normal stance.

 

773 - more back and forth with Leelou

 

SUMMARY:

 

Inconsistent reads, way too unwilling to talk about, let alone vote for, a player he says his head tells him is scum, OMGUS ... I'm strongly believing we have a Shad + Dice (ShIce? Dad?) scum combo.  Shad's currently got two votes on him to Dice's one, but I'll happily help lynch either.

 

[Kivam]

And now I'm going to go spend some time with the fam.

[dicetosser1]

Kivam im gonna tell you this once and once only

 

Dont EVER pull this crud on me again

 

) he has a life; and 2) there's been nothing to comment on.  Both of those statements are filthy lies.

 

while I might take that from someone i know as funny from you who i dont know it is insulting and rude.  The nothing to comment on is obviously my opinion. I had nothing to say but dont EVER talk about my life like that.
 

[dicetosser1]

as for 629 thats me poking at BFG for not doing something to Shad that she did to me last game. Its not defending Shad.

 

590:

 

dicetosser1, on 09 Aug 2015 - 6:54 PM, said:

i thought sooh sounded light hearted at game start which is a good sign but i dont have a lot of memory of her. Whether thats my fault or not im not sure
 
Hally  i dunno. i noticed one post where she was kinda sus on me but i dont know why other then that i feel like its just been fluff pieces.  I sux at reading hally tho

 

you migfht wanna consider context. I was specifically asked for thoughts on those two.

 

 

 

re 762  I changed my mind is what happened.

 

 

 

 

As for what happened with Shad? that early quick pile on today happened. Its made me stop to think.

[dicetosser1]

right now im happy to lynch either leelou or kivam but considering the way kivam cherry picked bits there like "notice allana specifically asked" but DIDNT not that i was specifically asked about hally and leelou and used that to add more fuel to the "wont discuss shad" fire id rather lynch him first.

 

 

unvote vote Kivam

[Kivam]

Dice, grow up. If i don't know you - and i don't - how could i be anything but joking about your life? Don't know what's going on in your world to trigger that type of insecurity/sensitivity, but whatever it is, i hope it resolves well for you and I'm sorry you took that comment the way you did.

 

That aside, the OMGUS vote on me and the nonsensical reasoning (I never suggested there was anything wrong with you talking about other players) pretty much locks my read in. You and shad are the most obvious scum I've ever seen, and one of you two need to die today. Don't really care which.

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

 

[Andrej]

Vote Count 2.8

 

Shad (2) - Kivam, Hallia
dicetosser1 (1) - Leelou
Sooh (2) - Talya, Darthe
Kivam (1) - dicetosser1

Not Voting (5) - Thane Vakarian, Seph, AlannaLynn, Shad, Sooh

 

6 to lynch.

Deadline: 9pm PST Tuesday August 11th

[dicetosser1]

you need to reset your scumdar

[Shad_]

Kivam part 3 and done except for his ISOs at the end. This guy is absolutely exhausting:

 

#509 scum reading Seph, agrees with BFG's observations on him

 

#514 clarifies his issues surrounding the Seph votes, it's consistent with what he said before

 

#519 lawyer confirmed, may explain why I have had a headache all game. But oh ho ho!:

 

Step 2: Seph posts "0-2. Not a good look. Job rotting your brain" about Darthe's reads. The "0-2" and "Job is rotting your brain" parts both read (to me) as assuming Darthe is town swinging and missing on real reads, and the "0-2" part looks like TMI to me as well. That's particularly true given the "job rotting your brain" end of the quote, since its only function in the post is providing an explanation for "Town Darthe missing his reads".

Darthe has reads now, does he? Failing to maintain your legalese is null though.

 

#525 I'm "scummy as hell" for town reading Kivam over interpreting his fake emo demonstration as a reaction test. His WTL group is me, Dice, and Seph.

 

#532 No read on Leelou yet, likes Darthe but not clearing him any time soon. Confirmed that he believes not naming his town reads is a good idea. So there was more to that than a test.

 

~~#525 I'm wondering where Laine is on his list because he sussed her in #503 but doesn't name her here. #532 I'm realizing he'll never tell me. I don't like that I have to dig to know he's been leaning scum on her. A scum!Kivam can more easily shift around late game when the thorough fact checkers are dead. Town way more likely to catch and question an unexplained shift on a read list than divergence from a briefly mentioned scum lean in a long post.

 

#636 explains how he reached a scum read of Dice from the "reads" conversation:

 

 

 

 

kiv we may just have to agree to disagree but i will say if you want to focus on semantics dont be surprised if people give you semantics back.

 

 

BFG Thane set off an alarm bell for me. When he starts doubting me with one exception that comes to mind I start worrying

There's a difference between looking at players' word usage for clues about their alignment and psychology and picking a theory fight about a mechanics issue that you know with 100% certainty has no application to the game you are playing.

 

The former is scum hunting. The latter is deflection and distraction.

 

 

 

~~I initially thought "deflection and distraction from what?" Dice wasn't under any pressure at the time. But this passes the consistency test. Dice came into a conversation between Kivam and Seph. Kivam is scum reading Seph and Dice. There is a method to his madness.

 

#642 further explanation of why he thinks Dice's vote was scummy. Concludes noting that at the time there were no major lynch candidates, Kivam was drawing some heat, and Dice knew he wouldn't be around to defend himself:

 

 

 

Grrr. The nesting quotes combined with Laine responding to me in blue makes it pretty impossible to quote to respond.

 

Re Laine saying she didn't see Dice's post as attempting to throw suspicion on me: that is literally the only possible function of this line from Dice:

 

what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

Combine that with the smoke-and-mirrors of the equivocation between alignment reads and role reads, and the manufactured aspect of the "ok you're right in this game but not in all games" line of argument (again, if you're trying to solve, you agree with me about the thing we agree on and argue about the things you don't; if you're trying to make a player seem scummy, you don't give them any daylight at all in a post you're planning on ending with "what concerns me is I think you know this"), and what do you get?

 

A scummy push on a player who had drawn a lot of heat, without (at the time) a strong other lynch candidate drawing votes, and who could not respond.

 

Hence Dice is firmly in my scum pile

 

 

 

~~I'm not so thrilled with this one. Kivam's argument is consistent here and Dice's post doesn't look the greatest, but "what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this" does not match up in severity to "A scummy push on a player who had drawn a lot of heat, without (at the time) a strong other lynch candidate drawing votes, and who could not respond." I would call it a soft sussing. Dice could be scum trying to build up grounds to eventually vote you. But I can't read his post, taken alone out of context, as a serious attempt to get you lynched D1. You hadn't built a multi-post case against him as of #642. It looks like you have since. Getting there.

 

#644 continues to push the 'don't reveal your town reads' strategy

 

 

 

 

I don't see the point here. I use town reads from those I'm reading as town to narrow down my POE for scum. It feels to me like you're trying to scare us into having no clear townies and muddling reads by spreading suspicion which I'm not sure I agree with. It's one thing in Avatar where you're protecting a specific player, but another where we are scum hunting for a team to determine who they are connected with.

 

At the same time I am intrigued by the concept and would like to know how this would work in action but not totally comfortable with it.

Not so hard to understand. We post our scum lists, and keep our townies to ourselves. You can still use reads from people you are townreading to inform your own analysis - if someone you trust doesn't share your scum read on player X, take a second look - but you don't hand scum a prioritized kill list.

 

 

 

~~The quote he is responding to is a snip from Laine. I really like that she didn't let the topic drop when others did. I find it... interesting that Kivam does not assume the accusative tone with her that he does with Dice.

 

Forward from here, Kiv votes me, asks Sooh why she voted Tina over me, asks Laine why she unvoted me and who she wants to lynch

 

#742 I'd asked Kiv why he didn't suss me before I mentioned reaction fishing, he said he thought I'd made a tone read.

 

~~I'm kind of meh about that. "Tone reading" someone I had never talked to before? I also asked why he finds the reaction-fishing interpritation scummy and what his other "major reasons" for voting me were. Still waiting for an answer.

 

#743-747 Kiv and Darthe discuss Thane's "one sentence too far" behavior. Darthe had said "if I call Thane out and he adapts to it then he outs himself so I'd expect him to crank it up another notch tbh". Kiv calls it a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

 

~~If I'm tracking this right, Kiv is arguing that Thane continuing the behavior is less scummy than Thane changing it, while Darthe is arguing that both are scummy but Thane could redeem himself by explaining the behavior. I think Kiv's making more sense here. In order for it to not be scummy, it has to be unconscious, in which case Thane can't really explain it.

 

From here Kiv gets into his ISOs, and I want to do my own homework before I read his.

[dicetosser1]

Shad ure kinda right. it was a bit sussy but notice I didnt vote him. there is no way i could have been pushing someone not here on one post and no vote

[seph]

 

Shad, who are your WTL and top towns?

 

Dice ISO (I like doing dice ISOs because they are easier :p)

 

Fluff, fluff and fluff.

 

discussion over 'Reads' with Kivam.

Discusses Soul reads

 

Mentions Tina and Thane not reading him when they are wolf

 

Not on at DL due to time zones

 

His reads

 

Town: Seph, Laine an+ad BFG (has this changed dice?)

Wary of Leelou

Sooh, light hearted at start

Hally - doesn't know hard to read

Shad - mafia, but his head saying that not his gut.

 

so far not seeing a town dice, but not a wolf one either. Want to see more before I decide here.

 

Point on time zones. I don't like they are used as an excuse for not voting. I know people can't be on all the time, if you know it is at an awkward time, you vote before you leave.

 

Dice, what are you reads now, have they change if so why?

 

 

Same town reads but add thane to it. im happy enuff with him.    i DONT LIKE THE SHAD TRAIN. IT BUILT FAST   stoopid caps...  he may be mafia he may be town  i cant make up my mind.

 

WTL Leelou and Kivam in no particular order but also for no real good reasons. Kivam just isnt clear. And he seems to be making sure he isnt clear. I think ive only played with him once before and he was working like this a bit then too and flipped scum. Si i dont really know how to read him

 

Leelou    its her pushing at me. She seems to be going the route of "Dice is quiet Dice is scum"

 

You all need to get over that. Sometimes Dice just has nothing to say

 

But back to leelou   thatd be ok if it wasnt the pot calling the kettle black. Shes been quiet and theres no substance to her posts. I feel like most of them are 1 liners. Feels a bit opportunistic

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

Need something to work with here.

 

 

Here work with this Vote Leeelou

 

Talya  hows about you ISO leelou and see if what im saying is right? ISO doesnt work right when i do it.

Dice this post read weird, and fence sitting is not a good look on you.

[Talya]

@ Sooh, I never said I thought Seph was your team mate. If you are wolf then hard defending someone as town is easy as you KNOW his alignment, if he is town.

[seph]

Im pretty lost on Kiv atm. I keep going back and forth.

 

I'm feeling much more confident in tayla and leelou, and strangely have leelou as my strongest town read. Her posts about were truthfu in my opinion, and even if she is wrong, she at least believes what she is typing.

 

Sooh, and Dice have fallen a bit for me, but I don't think I would lynch them today.

 

Bfg had a good post But if shad is mafia, who the partners would be.

[Talya]

Another question Sooh, how are you seeing Seph as still town if his posting has changed a lot and he is mostly absent from the thread?

[seph]

 

Bleh, I don't like that Thane is basing town reads off of spammy chatter at the beginning of game, it's free passes that are not warranted.

 

Thane already answwered this but i was gonna say it was tone based

 

Tone reading? Sould reading? Does it actually work for anyone?

 

yes it does. Tone at least. Ive caught AJ off one word, Laine off one response to me all based on tone.  Its not fool proof but it DOES work. Some people are good at it some arnt. I think the gut instinctual players are better at it then the critical thinkers ones

 

I am quoting dice, because I found it in his iso.

I am not sure if anyone commented on this yet, but hallia why are you sussing thane, when that is all I did day 1?

[Talya]

Seph, who would lynch today?

[Shad_]

Shad ure kinda right. it was a bit sussy but notice I didnt vote him. there is no way i could have been pushing someone not here on one post and no vote

Is this your response to my three-page spanning massive ISO of Kivam? >_>