[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Kivam]

Also standard odds are 75% town 25% wolf so 50/50 is a marked improvement.

This is true.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

Darthe - thoughts on Dice?

I haven't had any, he is a wasted slot atm

I'm voting him.

Wasted vote Imo, place it somewhere with value.

[Leelou]

Not much is happening. People don't seem to be posting enough and it feels like there are a lot of slankers, myself included. 

[Darthe]

Ditto. If ya'll buy insurance annuities or investment options with me I can focus more on the game. Do the right thing folks.

[Kivam]

Talya ISO:
 
Checks in, banters a bit (posts 34, 35, 37, 45, 46)
 
Post 48: Asks Seph to tell her that he is town:
 

Seph, tell me you are town, you're certainly feeling better than last game, so ongoing that way.

 

I know these "are you town" posts have become standard, but I dislike them as a general rule.  Very easy post to make as town, especially when combined with townreading another player that early. 

 

Follows up with posts 52, 58, 63 (another "yes, I'm town, are you) which are continued "Towncore" posts

 

Laughs at a joke from BFG (93)

 

129 Finally, some content.  Questions Seph about his Darthe vote, but ends up townreading him as "just trying to get the game started" (note to self: Same as Sooh)  I generally like this post, but worth reevaluating if Seph or Sooh flip scum

 

133 - still discussing Seph, agrees with Leelou that "not wanting your blind guess to be 100% wrong" is not a helpful method of scumhunting

 

147 - asks why Seph has a townread on Sooh and Dice

 

150 - seems to mix up Thane and Seph

 

260 - some interaction with Shad about Seph, a pushback on Darthe re Seph, confusion about the byplay between me, Tina, and Shad.  Plus a comment about how cute my baby is, which is obviously a towntell.  Jokes aside, this post reads genuine to me; a mild town lean from this post returns her firmly to the null pile

 

261 - townreads BFG.  Way to go out on a limb, Tal!

 

 

[Kivam]

Clicked submit by accident.  Part two coming up

[keyholder21]

Vote Count 2.6

Hallia (1) - Darthe
Shad (2) - Kivam, Hallia
dicetosser1 (1) - Leelou
Sooh (1) - Talya

Not Voting (6) - Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, Seph, dicetosser1, Shad, Sooh

6 to lynch.

Deadline: 9pm PST Tuesday, August 11

[Darthe]

[unvote][v] sooh [/v]

[Leelou]

Why Sooh? 

[Darthe]

Because I hunt wolves

[Leelou]

Where is she being wolfy? 

[dicetosser1]

Shad, who are your WTL and top towns?

 

Dice ISO (I like doing dice ISOs because they are easier :p)

 

Fluff, fluff and fluff.

 

discussion over 'Reads' with Kivam.

Discusses Soul reads

 

Mentions Tina and Thane not reading him when they are wolf

 

Not on at DL due to time zones

 

His reads

 

Town: Seph, Laine and BFG (has this changed dice?)

Wary of Leelou

Sooh, light hearted at start

Hally - doesn't know hard to read

Shad - mafia, but his head saying that not his gut.

 

so far not seeing a town dice, but not a wolf one either. Want to see more before I decide here.

 

Point on time zones. I don't like they are used as an excuse for not voting. I know people can't be on all the time, if you know it is at an awkward time, you vote before you leave.

 

Dice, what are you reads now, have they change if so why?

 

Same town reads but add thane to it. im happy enuff with him.    i DONT LIKE THE SHAD TRAIN. IT BUILT FAST   stoopid caps...  he may be mafia he may be town  i cant make up my mind.

 

WTL Leelou and Kivam in no particular order but also for no real good reasons. Kivam just isnt clear. And he seems to be making sure he isnt clear. I think ive only played with him once before and he was working like this a bit then too and flipped scum. Si i dont really know how to read him

 

Leelou    its her pushing at me. She seems to be going the route of "Dice is quiet Dice is scum"

 

You all need to get over that. Sometimes Dice just has nothing to say

 

But back to leelou   thatd be ok if it wasnt the pot calling the kettle black. Shes been quiet and theres no substance to her posts. I feel like most of them are 1 liners. Feels a bit opportunistic

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

Need something to work with here. 

 

Here work with this Vote Leeelou

 

Talya  hows about you ISO leelou and see if what im saying is right? ISO doesnt work right when i do it.

[dicetosser1]

oh and talya?  you mentioned about voting before not being here? That assumes you have made up your mind who you want to vote.

 

I actually tried to be here for it  set an alarm and everything for 430am but i turned it off and fell back to sleep

[Leelou]

One liners are typical of me. Your vote is pure OMGUS, dice. 

[Leelou]

 

Shad, who are your WTL and top towns?

 

Dice ISO (I like doing dice ISOs because they are easier :p)

 

Fluff, fluff and fluff.

 

discussion over 'Reads' with Kivam.

Discusses Soul reads

 

Mentions Tina and Thane not reading him when they are wolf

 

Not on at DL due to time zones

 

His reads

 

Town: Seph, Laine and BFG (has this changed dice?)

Wary of Leelou

Sooh, light hearted at start

Hally - doesn't know hard to read

Shad - mafia, but his head saying that not his gut.

 

so far not seeing a town dice, but not a wolf one either. Want to see more before I decide here.

 

Point on time zones. I don't like they are used as an excuse for not voting. I know people can't be on all the time, if you know it is at an awkward time, you vote before you leave.

 

Dice, what are you reads now, have they change if so why?

 

Same town reads but add thane to it. im happy enuff with him.    i DONT LIKE THE SHAD TRAIN. IT BUILT FAST   stoopid caps...  he may be mafia he may be town  i cant make up my mind.

 

WTL Leelou and Kivam in no particular order but also for no real good reasons. Kivam just isnt clear. And he seems to be making sure he isnt clear. I think ive only played with him once before and he was working like this a bit then too and flipped scum. Si i dont really know how to read him

 

Leelou    its her pushing at me. She seems to be going the route of "Dice is quiet Dice is scum"

 

You all need to get over that. Sometimes Dice just has nothing to say

 

But back to leelou   thatd be ok if it wasnt the pot calling the kettle black. Shes been quiet and theres no substance to her posts. I feel like most of them are 1 liners. Feels a bit opportunistic

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

Need something to work with here. 

 

Here work with this Vote Leeelou

 

Talya  hows about you ISO leelou and see if what im saying is right? ISO doesnt work right when i do it.

 

 

Also, my vote has nothing to do with you being quiet. It has to do with the fact that I've seen nothing townie from you. 

[Kivam]

307 - Question's Darthe's vote on Tina, back to the questions about Seph's "soul read".  She also misread that post as identifying her, Leelou, and Darthe as townies.  All in all, a solid post

 

308 - asks how Seph can call out people as scum who hadn't posted.  @Talya - wouldn't this be the same question if he identified you three as town rather than scum?

 

331 - asks Sooh for clarification, more on the Seph soul read

 

333 - responds to Sooh's clarification at 332

 

357 - back to the "are you town" signalling (this time aimed at Alanna).  Claims confusion on everyone but BFG, still questions Seph.

 

368 - status update, says she's not seeing the Tina case and has a large WTL list and is working on her townreads. Still on Seph a bit.  Looks a bit like not wanting to take a stand @Talya - found any townreads yet?  Can you give me a top 3 WTL (counting Sooh as your No. 1) for right now?

 

449 - Asks a good question to Darthe

 

470 - has 4 town reads, and everyone else as "needs more work".  Don't like the wishy-washyness here.  Again, @Talya do you have a scum pile yet?

 

482 - Hammers Tina with 4 minutes to deadline.  Protown move here.

 

(side note - at 483, Thane says he'd rather have a no-lynch than lynch someone he's unsure of.  I think that's a terrible town play - we need information more than 1 vanilla townie.  @Game: Anyone know if that's Thane's standard approach? Either way, I think Thane is my next ISO)

 

487 - Talya says she did a quick ISO on Tina, is firmly unsure of how she'll flip

 

490 - banter with BFG

 

495 - Post flip: "Oh well" reaction, asks Darthe to explain the Tina vote

 

633 - returns to the thread, says she's rereading

 

634 - asks Seph and Thane for their townreads (do not like this, for reasons already discussed).

 

639 - likes Shad's vote on Seph more on reread than she'd thought

 

643 - asks me a mangled question about my thoughts on Shad's vote.  Also says my unvote of Seph "feels like jumping off something that could turn into a lynch and not wanting it to be one" - which is weird, since I put Seph firmly back in my WTL pile by then

 

647, 686, 713, 716 - wonders whether Shad is speaking in Britishisms ("sussed out")

 

659 - still poking at Darthe for more information on the Tina vote, question's Thane's post-lynch "I wouldn't have voted her" stance, and says Hally's meta is off from a recent town game.

 

674 - essentially the same as 643, with an added question for Darthe - why is he voting Hally if he's been banging the drum for a Thane lynch?

 

677 - asks for Thane's WTL

 

683 - clarifies her question to me

 

(684 Alanna votes Shad)

 

685 - says she was just going to ask for Alanna's thoughts on Shad, had him improving on her reread.

 

714 - asks Leelou who she is WTL other than Shad

 

721 - ISOs Sooh, adds to her WTL.  @Talya - why did you pick Sooh for an ISO?

 

725 - Asks for Shad's WTL and top townreads (Do Not Like).  ISOs Dice. Says he's null.  Obviously I disagree.  Will go back and reread Dice after this and compare to her post, which I'm linking for convenience.  @Talya - same question.  Why Dice? 

 

726-27 - Hello to Thane, asks for his thoughts on Shad and Hally

 

728 - agrees with Alanna that "traps" are useless

 

(Thane responds to 727 at 729)

 

730; 734 - Asks for Thane's WTL; asks for Thane's townreads

 

733 - Questions Darthe about his Tina if-then

 

737 - ISOs Hally, "feels better about her than before" - @Talya, same question.

 

738-740 Votes Sooh

 

 

And that's it so far.  Generally liking Talya's progressions and approach, though she's got a few pingy things here or there (overselling the townie banter, continuing to ask for townreads, and general wishy-washynes).  If you put a gun to my head and told me you'd pull the trigger if I got Talya's alignment wrong, I'd say town ... and then viduy.

 

[dicetosser1]

same thing. 

 

people have a weird view of how to tell im town. they seem to think if im not aggressive and pushy then im not town/ that if im quiet im mafia for sure. Yet thats wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

Need something to work with here. 

 

Here work with this Vote Leeelou

 

Talya  hows about you ISO leelou and see if what im saying is right? ISO doesnt work right when i do it.

 

 

Also, my vote has nothing to do with you being quiet. It has to do with the fact that I've seen nothing townie from you. 

 

 

Right back atcha. You might wanna get out of the glass house before you throw stones

[dicetosser1]

kiv  the no lynch thing is normal thane

[Shad_]

About half way through Kivam, here are some things that bother me so far:

 

 

 

 

 

Yes :) anything else would have worried me

 

Can you explain your reads on Kivam and Seph up to this point?

Seph's attitude is very different here than in Star Wars. He's playing with confidence and swagger where I remember him as defensive and insecure. His more recent games should tell me if this is his new norm. Supposing for now that it is since no one has called him out for it, the big thing that bugs me is the explanation behind his Darthe vote. He contradicted himself explaining his thought process, as I see it, and I don't get how that happens if he was being honest. But he's putting on a show of trying to solve. Three votes and a lot of accusations didn't frazzle him much. It's not the Seph I towned with two months ago but that's not scummy in and of itself.

 

Kivam is interesting. I feel like he's all over the place. I want to interpret it as trying to shake things up and keep the game moving. He's having a go at people who haven't been sussed at all (Sooh, Tina, Hallia, me before I got into it with Seph). That's productive at this stage, if it creates some inconsistency. He got on Sooh for sussing me over the Seph vote. That felt weird, but I'm not seeing Sooh's scum game at all here and he might not know what to look for. I don't have a clue what is normal for him so meh. I want to like him.

 

You should. I'm a very likable guy.

 

That said, I'm not liking the misrepresentation of my comment to Sooh. I didn't "get on" Sooh - I said I was annoyed that a potential chance to catch opportunistic scum got busted up by her comments (and Tina's). Like I said to Darthe, the comments themselves were a null tell. But hey, you tell me - which part of my posts did you consider "getting on Sooh" or "having a go at Sooh"? I'd like to see quotes, please.

 

And btw, I've never played with Sooh, Seph, or (I'm pretty sure) BFG. But the people I have played with will tell you that doesn't matter, since I don't give meta much credence unless I know the player in question is bad enough at mafia not to either have a meta tell or not be able to change it.

 

Here's the post about Sooh:

 

Yesh, I'd say calling out an "odd move" is pressure. Not sure why you're running away from that characterization, but it's not a good look Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

I don't like this approach to my post. It's a technically sound criticism because his doubts about Sooh arise in a conversation extending from the "pressure" comment, not the pressure itself. But instead of clarifying this, he omits any mention of the related instance in which he did criticize Sooh.

 

 

 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

All due respect, Seph, this is silly. Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.

darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!

I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.

[unvote]

[v] kiv[/v]

 

And this is also silly. (Not the vote, but the thought process). Mafia members don't make or post "reads". Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum). But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

 

This is really weird. Seph's possible TMI imo was stating Thane was town like it was a fact. This business of sussing him for describing Darthe's

1. as "reads" is awkwardly explained. What else should he call them? Seph used the same terminology that pretty much everyone else does.

 

 

 

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.

 

Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

 

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.

 

Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

I don't see why not; if we're announcing scum reads or those we're willing to lynch, it's going to be obvious anyways. Besides I wouldn't think the mafia is so dumb to not know any one player's town equity based on the flow of the thread. I can see where you're getting at in us having consensus town and potentially no doc, but I really don't see it as harmful to strategy to announce reads.

 

I think announcing scum reads is smart in this game. I think announcing town reads is not, since consensus townies are going to be the obvious kill choices for the scum in a game with no chance of a kill misfiring. Am I the only one who sees this?

 

 

@Kiv - I see the benefit in posting both, and think it's pretty important

In a normal game, where there may be a doc and scum have to balance the risk of shooting the obvious target against the possibility that the doc will protect that same "obvious target", sure. Especially if you have a standard cop who may end up clearing 2 or 3 townies when they reveal, making one "consensus townie" a hell of a lot less important to kill than an unrevealed power role.

 

We have no doc. Naming consensus townies doesn't create a WIFOM for scum, and it doesn't make them weigh any risks. It just says "please kill this person, because if they survive to a 3 person endgame, town wins". And we have only a 1x cop, so at best we're going to be either down 1 scum or up 1 townie when the cop reveals (and unless that's at endgame, scum will simply kill them in the ensuing nights), so there's no reason for scum not to kill the consensus townies.

 

Am I really the only one who sees this?

 

 

And this is the biggest thing.  It caters to a scenario where scum can find excuses to vote whoever's next on the chopping block without worrying about contradicting previous town reads.  Kivam seems to have put a lot of thought into the idea.  Shouldn't this have crossed his mind?

[Leelou]

same thing. 

 

people have a weird view of how to tell im town. they seem to think if im not aggressive and pushy then im not town/ that if im quiet im mafia for sure. Yet thats wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

Need something to work with here. 

 

Here work with this Vote Leeelou

 

Talya  hows about you ISO leelou and see if what im saying is right? ISO doesnt work right when i do it.

 

 

Also, my vote has nothing to do with you being quiet. It has to do with the fact that I've seen nothing townie from you. 

 

 

Right back atcha. You might wanna get out of the glass house before you throw stones

 

Oh I'm sorry, me actually trying to scum hunt is throwing stones at you? 

[seph]

I still need to finish my re read, but I'm feeling better on shad,tayla, and leelou.

Shad's post have seemed alot better her recently, and his analysis looks like town.

I liked Leelou's response to the whole soul read discussion and it makes me feel so much better about her.

 

Someone commented on sooh defending me, and on my re read I found it a bit odd. I will say, Sooh generally is very good at reading me, but it seems the white knight play, is being taken a little to far. I'm going to withhold judgement here until I fisnish

[Kivam]

kiv  the no lynch thing is normal thane

 

Thanks, Dice.

 

Can anyone else confirm?

[dicetosser1]

 

same thing. 

 

people have a weird view of how to tell im town. they seem to think if im not aggressive and pushy then im not town/ that if im quiet im mafia for sure. Yet thats wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

Need something to work with here. 

 

Here work with this Vote Leeelou

 

Talya  hows about you ISO leelou and see if what im saying is right? ISO doesnt work right when i do it.

 

 

Also, my vote has nothing to do with you being quiet. It has to do with the fact that I've seen nothing townie from you. 

 

 

Right back atcha. You might wanna get out of the glass house before you throw stones

 

Oh I'm sorry, me actually trying to scum hunt is throwing stones at you? 

 

 

im waiting to see this scumhunting you speak of.

[Sooh]

Glad you chose the week I'm away to vote me and suspect me. If you have any concrete questions for me I'll try to respond to them, other than that I can't do much this week. If you want to lynch a wolf you're going to have to look elsewhere. I'm not a wolf this time. I also have pretty much no time for casing until Saturday, so if you want my help you better keep me alive until then. If not, well, not much I can do about it right now while on vacation. 

 

I don't know if I have very clear town or mafia tells yet, but you just have to read me and see if there's anything in what I've done so far that is mafia motivated. 

[Leelou]

I'm one person, Dice. Is it really bothering you that much? Maybe you should show me your towniness and not just by omgus voting me.

 

I'm playing as time allows me. Unfortunately it's less than I thought.

 

Still not 100% thrilled with Shad, but his train built a bit quickly for my liking. One I'm looking at is Laine. I have to go through and read her posts in detail.

 

I think Thane is pretty townie this game, I like his involvement and not just spamming.