[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[hazelkrs1]

##Vote Dice

[Sili Quirrels]

I don't think this is thread relevant, but it could be:

 

Despot. When you have time.

 

 

You haven't played enough games with me to make that kind of judgement, that you have a better foundation or w/e. I haven't been as solid as I used to as town lately, but I think part of that is I am still a little bit too obstinate in my reads at times (I have a big fear of being talked out of a read on someone that ends up being right) and a big part is I used to really rely on rereads to help me reevaluate the game better and come to better conclusions as the game went on. Not going to even try to attempt to reread a game that gets as big and spammy as this one has.

 

So w/e, judge me all you want and think you're already a better mafia player, I'm just saying I'm not the only person you play with who will find that attitude almost unbearable to play with. This is at the end of the day still a game, and if enough people that play this game are put off by your attitude and behavior, you're going to have a tough road ahead. Assuming you actually enjoy this game and want to continue to hone your skills and get along with others in this game, you seriously are going to want to rethink your attitude and how much you actually know about this game and the people who play it.

 

Right now I want to bridge our relationship, so I will posit a solution. We think in two different ways, from separate vantage points, so I will tell you about myself.

 

When I interact with people, I have very little personality of my own. My mood changes from week to week. I swap ideologies regularly. I am heavily affected by insults or compliments, and often return the favor regardless of context.

 

Put simply I'm emotional; I can't control it well.

 

So if an argument is not resolved it settles into me like a toxin. Desp, I think you may agree with me, or persuade me, but if you dismiss me, tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm a fool for not knowing I'm wrong, and don't do it in a way that convinces me of the fact, then I will dismiss you as someone who doesn't know how to play mafia until proven otherwise.

 

It's just who I am, I think. I act on principles of equivalence.
 

 

Again, just keep in mind that you ARE still new to this enviroment, and there is still a lot you can learn from other players. Maybe I'm not one of them, that's fine. But I assure you that you haven't played enough games with me yet to know whether or not that's the case.

 

I don't know if you're better in short games, but I have learned a lot from you. For instance, your traps have some merit. When I'm able to pull one off, I'll likely emulate them.

 

That's supposed to be a compliment.

 

 

 

 

I hope you understand me better. People think I'm a jerk sometimes, but it's not the case.

[hazelkrs1]

WTL either Dice or Key today

 

For Sili:

 

 

 

I was never trying to dismiss anything you said as if you couldn't ever have a valid thought or idea in mafia, not sure where you got that from. I just got tired of your arrogant tone in constantly disparaging DM town for lynching you when it was mostly your fault, and thinking you could "coach" people who had much more experience than you

 

I think one of your flaws right now is you perceive slights to your person where there are none intended. You acted like Dice was being an elitist jerk. You thought I was worth putting on ignore. You criticized anyone who didn't blueread you. You lashed out at anyone who mentioned your experience level in anything resembling a negative manner.

 

[hazelkrs1]

Reading through Rags' iso right now. Still a lot more to go through, but almost out of time so I'll share what I have so far-

 

He went after AJ early and that looks good. He displays a fairly easy to follow progression on reads. He has posted a LOT more times than I realized, so that's not great. One thing that looks really good for him tho if BFKey flips scum like I think they will however is the way Key misrepped Rags, and then he pointed that out, yet he still stayed orange for them even tho that's the ONE thing Key ever mentioned about him. He also points out a post of Berf's that he found off that I also think looks good on him, both associative and not. I also feel the way he continuously follows up on the Verbal thing makes him more likely to be town, don't think scum would go that hard to get Verb lynched unless he was a consensus scum read for a while, and he wasn't really until yesterday

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

i'm entitled to my arrogance if you condemn me for bad reasons, then don't explain them in a useful way and don't let me validate myself. same goes for anyone. i understand it will take you time to adjust. I'm new and shouldn't have that conviction after all.

 

and i think that's okay. we can move past this with hopeful overtures.

 

I think one of your flaws right now is you perceive slights to your person where there are none intended.

 

True. I do that when I'm in a negative head space - sometimes see slights where there aren't any.

 

Not entirely sure dice's post is a good example though.

 

 

Done, Agreement?

[Sili Quirrels]

dingus is right. there's a chance this might be our last lynch. so we should lynch whoever has the highest chance of flipping scum.

 

i somehow... don't think key or dice are good lynch targets. dice has been aggressive and obstinate all game, but he has wim. further, if he's scum, hallia might be too by extension.

[BFG]

 

 

 

Pral - we'd been left with Rags/Dice/Verb and either Serf or Alanna. I still think EOD1 wagons make Serf/Alanna an unlikely mafia team, which means I'm misclearing someone, and since a number of people were 'cleared' as a group in my POE it's possible that I've miscleared a group of people.

Have you read dingus' spew?

 

???

 

He made a convincing argument for coria being scum. I've made mine thousands of times but no one listens, probably because I'd need to fish through her iso for examples.

 

Read his spew on coria. It boils down to a meta analysis of cory, and a couple sketchy things hallia posted.

 

I've read it.

 

Cory dropped out because of personal reasons, not knowing what they are I can't say if they'd affect his game, but I feel that reading Hallia who has been playing longer and I've had more games with will be more reliable to me.

 

I've already said I've miscleared somebody, it could be Hallia, I'll have some time to ISO tonight.

  

 

 

N1 Result: Pral did not target anyone

N2 Result: BFKey targetted Tommy

N3 Result: NA failed to return a result

 

So you can ask Pral or BFKey what they know about it.

We didn't jail Yates or Arsis, so I don't know if we were blocked or not.

 

I'd rather Lates revealed their target and then I'll see if it matched ours.

 

Why assume it was me or Pral, when we know that mafia have a blocking role?

 

 

According to how roles work, even if you were jailing them we should have seen who they were targeting. Please reveal who you jailed first.

 

We jailed Dice, we thought we'd try and block the kill since jailing any of our townies would stop any results they were given if they weren't killed. Please answer why you thought it was Pral or us instead of the mafia blocking role?

 

In Woodstock, I was a watcher who got results a day late. I watched Tommy being jailed N1 and was vigged Night 2 so never got the results. However Pral said that I wouldn't have got the results anyway because the jailing took precedence.

 

 

@Des I'm out for the day, so don't have time to respond right now.

[BFG]

@Krak would a watcher or tracker get a result on a target that had been jailed?

[Sili Quirrels]

@desp, i've been reasonable? I'm not allowed to be reasonable?

 

What kind of world is this

 

actually, i have an idea of what you're talking about. i'm more sober when i'm not under attack constantly.

[TheRagnarok]

Reading through Rags' iso right now. Still a lot more to go through, but almost out of time so I'll share what I have so far-

 

He went after AJ early and that looks good. He displays a fairly easy to follow progression on reads. He has posted a LOT more times than I realized, so that's not great. One thing that looks really good for him tho if BFKey flips scum like I think they will however is the way Key misrepped Rags, and then he pointed that out, yet he still stayed orange for them even tho that's the ONE thing Key ever mentioned about him. He also points out a post of Berf's that he found off that I also think looks good on him, both associative and not. I also feel the way he continuously follows up on the Verbal thing makes him more likely to be town, don't think scum would go that hard to get Verb lynched unless he was a consensus scum read for a while, and he wasn't really until yesterday

Can't argue much with this.

 

My biggest mistake this game was getting a bit tunnel-y on Verb the past couple day phases which hurt the advancement of my reads in the thread.  So I can't really blame anyone who is suspicious of me at this point as that's my own fault.

 

I'm gonna try to knock out a few ISOs today to recalibrate myself on who I think is scum.

[Nynaeve]

Vote Count

 

Hallia(2): Sili, Dice

Rags(1): Monstr

Dice(1): Des

 

 

Not voting(6): The rest of you lot

 

 

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

 

Deadline: No deadline has been set.

[TheRagnarok]

Ok, I just got through a quick ISO of BFG and have a few issues.  I have edited out any parts of the posts that aren't relevant(such as various parts of multiquotes) to save space.

 

First off are thoughts on Thane.  BFG goes from this...

 

Ok, I'm about caught up, although have skimmed a fair few pages. I don't have any strong leans one way or another, there are a few people I have tentative town leans on atm.

Cliff notes:
Thane is probably my clearest town atm. I like that he wasn't avoiding the thread during yesterdays arguments.

To this...

 

##Thane

With no reasoning, explanation, or mention of why the change.

 

But what I found very odd is how BFG goes back and forth on Pral multiple times in a manner I found interesting.

 

 

This is where we currently are, having mulled some stuff over. We've both sort of skimmed the stuff since the EOD1 and I desperately need to reread.

Pral - don't understand how he can have AJ as 'null' after AJ claimed Survivor, reads like he's not paying attention to the thread which is unlike Pral, but also would have been mentioned in a mafia QT so???

Still not really reading anyone scummy, so nobody is an orange per say.

Purple:
AJ

##Pral

Starts with a vote of Pral right off.  Which makes this response odd.

 

 

 

 

Yates do you mean that you viewed Pral and he was guilty or that you tried to view Pral, were redirected and whoever you viewed was guilty?

We viewed him as guilty and wanted to see where the thread took us. Didn't want to reveal until we had 2 NA's under our belt. Especially since we were unsure on BFKey being a JK or Scum RB.

Point of that was I was anticipating his excuses for investigating guilty. So Pral is scum... Trying to figure out what that means for everyone else.

 

I would love to believe I was right on Pral, but I'm not sure I believe you :(

 

Either BFG is naturally an EXTREMELY cautious player(could be the case), or now knows that she could get called on an earlier read that she didn't really follow up on if Pral flips town.

 

I'm admittedly torn on the next as it could either be an opportunistic scum play or a townie trying to catch something.

 

 

 

 

Pral: you think the Jailkeeper claim was a lie? Or they're a scum RB or somesuch? Why do you think that?

 
Don't believe them as town. Don't see why they would JK manbat as town - no way he was getting targetted by scum. Also, a town JK would try to target scum rather than town so that if ta all manbat is a PR, his power wouldn't be wasted. They would ideally have targetted you instead - because if they thought you are scum, then why not JK you? If you were town, why not JK you and prevent a loss for town?

 

 
 

 

 

im feeling this urge to vote key/bfg
 
 
thoughts?

Nudge more?

 

Yep, this pretty much confirms dice is scum?

Town dice would have made a post thinking why tommy wasn;t jailkept. Instead, we have him trying to influence the town against BFKey. Clearly he knew they were blocked and was trying to push the suspicion there.

## Dice

 

You don't mention us between these two posts. Why the change in stance?

 

Although now BFG goes the total other direction with Pral.

 

 

I think she would gambit faking a clear on a townie to set up a mislynch rather than outright fakclearing a teammate.

I think I agree with this.

So I'm close to LOCKCLEARing Pral, but I still want him to explain his change in opinion to cement that.

 

But the next post to Pral goes back the other way.

 

 

Wow... Arsis pretty much confirmed now.

Arsis/dice/sili/rags

Scum team

Why didn't you block us N2? When and why did you change your mind on us?

 

And then goes back to evidently having Pral cleared.

 

Pral - we'd been left with Rags/Dice/Verb and either Serf or Alanna. I still think EOD1 wagons make Serf/Alanna an unlikely mafia team, which means I'm misclearing someone, and since a number of people were 'cleared' as a group in my POE it's possible that I've miscleared a group of people.

 

The Thane thing looks really bad but I keep going back and forth on BFG's interactions with Pral.  On one hand it could be a very cautious townie not wanting to make a mistake, or a scum not wanting to stand out too much.

 

One other thing that really worries me is BFG's very first cliffnotes post which I quoted in part.

 

 

Ok, I'm about caught up, although have skimmed a fair few pages. I don't have any strong leans one way or another, there are a few people I have tentative town leans on atm.

Cliff notes:
Thane is probably my clearest town atm. I like that he wasn't avoiding the thread during yesterdays arguments.

Dice was next clearest until his vote on Arsis, the reasons/quotes given seemed taken out of context, e.g. Saying that Arsis statement about Belgium was a potshot seemed weird. Arsis didn't use it to FOS Thane in any way, so I'm not sure what's meant by potshotin this context, plus in threadflow was a clear joke. Still town lean, but lower than it was.

Incidentally Arsis's reaction to Dice's vote falls within his town range, as does his general abrasiveness this game. I ISO'd his first few pages from the DHEL game, and I'm seeing a difference so far. Leaning town so far.

Cory/Hallia also seem town, I'll read Cory when he starts posting at EOD, for now I understand his reasons for the lower PC ( ). I feel this is more likely town motivated, suspect Cory would be pretty confident as mafia on this forum, so would find it easy to drown the thread with posts if he was mafia. Hallia seems clear town atm.

Yates/Leelou also seem town for now. There were several points I agreed with Yates on, mostly his actions towards Thane/Hallia early game, remember feeling cautiously good about Leelou, light green read.

Des's reaction to Tommy's claim is more likely to come from town Des I think.

Unsure on Tommy, I won't be happy with a read on him, based only on game play, for at least another day phase, I also want to ISO Tommy in Cthulu, as I believe that's the last game he had a negative utility role in.




I'm now running late for work, so the rest will have to wait till later.

Does anyone else think that it is really weird that outside of Thane who they voted for after having as their #1 townie and Tommy who got NKed...everyone that BFG mentions in this post is alive?  That is either an odd kind of luck, or they mentioned few scummates.  Which I could definitely see as a way for scum to get 'safe' thoughts out there. 

 

Overall a scum lean because I didn't seen BFG take a very strong stand on anyone outside of Pral who she has gone back and forth on.

[TheRagnarok]

And I have no clue how to spoiler posts.

[Sili Quirrels]

[spoiler*][/spoiler*]

 

remove the asterisks.

 

good job on bfg. i'll comment tomorrow *yawn.

[Leelou]

We tracked Hallia.

[TheRagnarok]

Ok, on to BFG's partner in Key.

 

 

 

First post of note.

 

@Tommy – I’m not mad. Y U copy AJ’s thoughts?

@Lee – you won’t be seeing just a ton of BFG for D1, I’m afraid. She’s uberbusy at work. I’ve asked her on our QT about sharing her thoughts though, since she can open the QT at work, but generally not DM due to cloudflare. I’ll post her insights if she’s okay with it.

Thoughts atm:
Manbat looks very townie after reading through his posts here and his beginning posts in Cory’s and my game. His comfort level seems better, and I remember him saying how much he hated being scum in the QT during mine and Cory’s game. I also liked his response to me regarding his reaction o des’s question. Might seem silly, but I wanted to see how he answered regarding rolling scum or not since I remembered about his complaints on the QT.

I don’t know that I will ever feel comfortable putting Tommy firmly in a town pile, unless maybe a cop view with an already dead GF or sane cop flip, as someone else before me said, but as Cory and Manbat are both reading him as town, and my partner says she can read him given time, I’m willing to give it a bit of time.

Dice looks very townie, for putting his reads ITT and having some of them be against the grain, but for logical reasons. He doesn’t do this as well as scum, imo.

Alanna’s catch up post looks okay.

Not a fan of Berf’s catch up post. He comments on a post of Thane’s that has already been discussed, but doesn’t discuss the implications of TMI, which seems odd. Says Cory’s post regarding laying low pinged. Seems an odd thing to say as ScumCory, as it would surely draw attention. Also, if he’d caught up, he should have seen Cory’s post about posting less to encourage more from quieter players. Says Hally’s hydra with Cory makes him wonderful, but then he doesn’t like Yates’s friendly cheering of Hally. His scum reads are, imo, the easy people in the thread to call scum. He plus ones a few of Arsis’s posts, but doesn’t mention him at all in his assessment at the bottom.

I agree with Tommy that a lot of Arsis’s pop-ins seem to be encouraging a fight without adding much of his own to it. “Don’t forget he also did this,” kind of add-ins. Being an instigator, though, I’m not sure that’s a tell for Arsis.

Manbat, Tommy, dice, Alanna are townie leans while Berf is the opposite which she follows up on.

 

##Berf

Next post of thoughts.

 

Notes through Page 55 as I go through reread, spoilered, since long:

 

 

 

 

Yates poem to dice (#40) looks like town Yates getting started. Unless he and dice are on the scum team together.

 

 

Tommy starts going at Yates on Page 3.  Yates responds to Tommy on page 5.

 

 

AJ votes Tom “this is probably for the betterment of us all” (#70).  Also, discusses never trusting Tommy and Hallia without an inno view  (#99).  Comments regarding Tom breaking his heart due to grief (#122). Is this a negative on Cory’s notes list?  If not, why not?

 

 

Manbat has a strong start to the game. 

 

 

Thane discusses set up again, regarding unvoting (#135).  It’s definitely something that could have been asked in a QT or PM.

 

 

Sili, “I’m town again….yay”.  Puts him softly into green.  After 6 games, would have the foresight to announce this on thread if scum?  Would people on a QT even think to coach him to say this?

 

 

AJ “soft playing” it and his spoiler (#148) make sense now in light of his reveal.

 

 

Tommy stating about Verb’s pulling his quotes looks awkward and more likely to come from a wolf.  Is he currently voting him?  If not, why not?  (#200) – if Verb is the wolfiest thing in the thread atm, then why not vote him?  Not like votes are stuck and you certainly have no problem bouncing them around on later pages.  

 

 

Tommy asking BFG for her mafia tell on him (#160) looks interesting, though I am admittedly biased atm, since he looks scummy to me.  Later on, whenever someone says they have a tell for him he laughs them off –  why ask her, then?  Does NOT ask Yates (#248) what his tells are.  Why not?

 

 

BFG (#164) discusses percentages for town.  Tommy later says this is wolfy – Why not say so at the time?  He was in thread and commenting on other things, and has shown no fear in calling things wolfy.

 

 

AJ agrees with Tommy (#201) about Verb’s argument being a stretch. 

 

 

Tommy brings up Alot in a conversation about Verb (#207) – why?  (#219) – Says Verb needs a shakedown. Again, is he currently voting him?

 

 

#240; #244 – Tommy says Yates and then votes him.  #264 – says Yates is giving him “weird vibes” and he doesn’t think Verb is scum right now.  No explanation as to why Verb isn’t scum.  #279 – Says Yates is ignoring him.  I don’t see this.

 

 

#324 – Tommy Discusses rallying enough support to take Sili to a lynch.   

 

 

#361 – I like Hally’s explanation for why she thinks Leelou is town.  It does not look like scumHally.  Hydra with Cory though.  #366 – Says AJ’s response looks forced Does she follow up on this?

 

 

#396 – Second time Leelou has asked about inactives.  Is this normal for her?

 

 

Interaction between Sili and Arsis on page 21 is lol upon reread, also makes me think Arsis and Sili are both townies.

 

 

#423 – I like this post from Cory, as I said one of my reads posts, it isn’t necessary for him to cut down and it looks very townie. Same with #647.

 

 

Page 22 – I like Des’s entrance.  It reads genuine and not omg over the top with bravado, which makes me think town.  I have only ever seen him scum this defeated when we were scum in Avengers together and felt defeated from the power of the town. Never from the getgo.

 

 

Manbat votes Arsis with no explanation (#465) – Is this normal for him? Why not explain?

 

 

#480 – Sili still thinks Tom is scum.

 

 

#483 – feels more skepticism of him feels overdone But not anyone else’s?, but he’s not going to pick a fight with me before seeing more thread action. Since when does Tommy NOT call someone out with a statement or a vote?  Admittedly, this should have been my response when I first responded. 

 

 

#501 – I like Manbat’s response to my question, since idk that he would remember me in the scum QT on DHEL where he said he hated rolling scum.

 

 

#508  - I don’t see where Arsis is getting that manbat is flustered. Would scum Arsis point this out, knowing that Tommy has already said manbat is clear and that Tommy usually has a lot of threadpull?

 

 

#531 – Votes Arsis – Why? Also, again, strikes me odd that he didn’t vote me earlier.

 

 

#544 – Cory’s reaction and #546 – Tommy’s reaction to Arsis’s “only caught one wolf this time” are interesting to note. 

 

 

#553 – Tommy appealing to monstr for a town list.

 

 

#556 – love Sili’s response here. 

 

 

#557 – Tommy has Verb and Leelou listed as townies.  But was suspicious of Yates earlier – when/why did this change?

 

 

#568 – Monstr’s response to Yates is a good one.

 

#572 – back to saying Yates is ignoring him (Tommy).  Again #600.

 

 

#597 – Terrible response “I can link you to 15 different games….your sample size is too small” to Yates, imo.   Also, shouldn’t rely on what other people think of you, because IT BITES YOU IN THE ASS, I KNOW, but rather by thread play. Would scum monstr do this though?  I don’t remember him bringing up other games in DHEL. Nor appealing to how Tommy thought of him as an excuse/offering

 

 

#598 – Don’t like Yates’s response either “sili and arsis aren’t either” like he’s calling for backup. 

 

 

#602 – Using your own meta as an excuse for what you are doing is NEVER GOOD. Looks more townie to me than scum though.  Maybe because I tend not to use it as scum, but when I’m town and in trouble.

 

 

#612 – Why defending monstr so hard, Tommy?  Not inherently a scum tell, but why?  Do you not feel he can defend himself adequately?

 

 

#613 – weird response from Cory.  Don’t think I’ve ever seen him NOT give lists this far into a game. Why didn’t Tommy get on Cory about looking grumpy on thread?

 

 

#620 – Yates discussing Tommy going after people when they disappear from the thread.  It looks that way to me too. 

 

 

#631 – What does “decided not to accept the reality of our playstyles” mean?

 

 

#636 – Actually ignoring someone in game is childish and not good. But would Yates say this as a wolf?  Looks more like stubborn/jerk town to me.  #660 – same, but substitute Cory instead of Yates.

 

 

#662 – Sili paranoid of Tommy.  Why isn’t this commented on?

 

 

#668 – Hella scummy pop-in by Arsis, “He also did this…”

 

 

#687 – interesting comment from Hally.  She’s experienced in games where people say they are going on ignore and should KNOW that probably 100% of the time people do read the person anyway.

 

 

#695 – Already gave my thoughts on Berf’s catch up. 

 

 

Page 35 – So far, Alanna hasn’t added much to the game either, which is null, though I like her reads and I can understand where she is coming from.

 

 

#701 – Spot on.

 

 

#710 – AJ suspicious of Tommy.  Where is Cory’s questioning him?

 

 

#716 – Little skeeved by AJ’s giving Berf an easy out re: the culture shift at DM.

 

 

Page 37 – I like dice’s snappiness.  I don’t equate this with scum dice.  I do think he vote on Arsis was weak, though.

 

 

#745 – Tommy votes us “y u so mad”. Why didn’t he vote this earlier?  He, or I, haven’t said anything since and he randomly decides to vote me?  Why not Yates who seemingly had him on ignore?  He says nothing about changing his view on Yates.

 

 

#751 – Tommy hyperbolates (yeah, I made it up) what Yates is saying in 750 and it looks inflammatory. “you are saying our way of playing is wrong and yours is right.”

 

 

#770 – Thane appears to be following up on his statement that everyone should be looked at D1. Looks good for him, imo.

 

 

#775 – Seems a weird comment to say “someone who won’t be NKd like Berm” when DM has had a habit in the past of killing off low posting people to have a “no info” kill.  Can’t guarantee that won’t happen.  But I like the reasons/suggestions in #777 (“Berf or Rags” since we don’t know berf and rags makes himself hard to read”).

 

 

#776 – I like Leelou’s suggestions for investigation.  Out of the box and solid reasoning.  Looks townie.

 

 

#805 – AJ doesn’t have an opinion on where his thinking I was “standoff-ish” earlier puts me.  #810 – doesn’t want to push me for tone.

 

 

#812 – Again, AJ suspicious of Tom. 

 

 

Page 41-42 – Tom/AJ fight. AJ makes more sense to me – it does look like Tom has been egging Yates on.

 

 

#835 – Thane eats popcorn and then three posts later says to AJ “think we got the point”  Irks me. 

 

 

#841 – Verb says “good catch” by Tommy looks like scumTom.  Has he followed up on this?

 

 

#848 – So far all of Alanna’s posts could easily be stated as scum interjecting into the game, so they look null to slight town because her reads are very similar to my own  What is the difference between mine and Alanna’s?

 

 

#860 – Tommy “could vote Verb,” but doesn’t.  Has no problem moving his vote around, so why not?

 

 

#891 – “Berf, Arsis, or Verb all deserve increased scrutiny” and this is after poking at Verb regarding “letting town go off the rails”, Why vote Berf here? Why not vote Verb, who was in the thread and able to interact with him? And when he DID vote Berf, why not call him out for…anything? 

 

 

#986 – The way Yates is engaging Sili makes me think town. 

 

 

 

 

 

Main points TL; DR –

 

 

A lot of time/thread on why someone’s read of someone else is the absolute and will not be wrong.   

 

 

Discussing a game that at least half of us were not in and possibly can’t see, is hardly helpful to us seeing your points of view.

 

 

Tommy is dancing around voting for BFG/me and Verb, both.  Not sure why he keeps softpushing. You keep going at us and then backing off.  I'm trying to think like Cory suggested to me a long time ago and consider why someone who is town would do that.  I can't think why you would continuously go back to the same person, only to back off them again.  

 

 

It doesn't look like a town thing to do, and it doesn't look very much like a town!Tom thing to do, imo.  In Woodstock, when you thought Des was scum, you relentlessly hammered on him, same with me/Yates as Kates.  Until you felt satisfied with responses, you continuously pushed buttons.  In comparison, here you are softballing it in. 

 

 

Des’s entrance looks genuine and not omg over the top with bravado, which makes me think town.  I have only ever seen him scum this defeated when we were scum in Avengers together and felt defeated from the power of the town. Never from the getgo.

 

 

Yates/Leelou are hardcore town so far.  Yates not backing down, leelou’s involvement, and I agree with a lot of their arguments. I like how both have handled the players in the thread thus far.

 

 

I like how Thane is poking around talking about other people who might not have been remembered in thread.  He mentions it and then follows up on it later, without needing to be reminded.

 

 

Sili floating around looks townie.  It doesn’t strike me that someone that new into mafia would have the knowledge to postulate some of those questions on thread if they were scum.

 

 

Monstr’s game looks vastly different from DHEL, mainly due to his comfort in thread.  Only way I could see this from a scum monstr would be if he rolled it with Cory or Tom, but I’m not getting that vibe.

 

 

 

 

I hope to have time this afternoon to catch up with the rest. 

 

 

General thoughts: 

 

I still don't like Berf's one catch up post.  I don't care that there's only been one, I found plenty scummy about it.  I don't like his follow up either, that he will be back later with more, easily made scum excuse to stay under radar.

 

Probably obvious, but I don't believe Tommy's claim - it doesn't make sense to me to play Beloved Princess like that - and I don't like the way he's playing.  It looks different from the town games that I have played/seen him in and as I'm townreading Yates and Des, I feel even more inclined to believe Tommy is scummy as they are reading him this way too.

 

Arsis does NOT look like he's inside his wolf play to me, or to BFG.  I haven't seen the same bravado that I recognize from his scum game; it reads way more like his town game to me; especially the beginning of Avengers. 

Tommy is less townie, Des, Lates, Sili, Thane, Manbat, Arsis lean townie, and Berf is still scummy.  I don't like how Key gives credit for part of her read on Tommy to others.

 

 

Who are your top 3 lynches for the day?

I looked at your catch-up and thought it was + that you're trying to get in the head of the other players
 
But what I guess I didn't see to well is who you would prefer to lynch

Top three lynches:

Berf, Tommy, for reasons already said. Distant third, would be Rags. I found his catch up less than desired and voting AJ seems an easy out to me, since AJ has claimed third party.

If you want me to disinclude Tommy, I would hesitantly put Alanna in because so far I haven't seen anything of hers that couldn't come from scum and in my experience she plays reasonable scum well.

I would NOT lynch Des, Yates/Leelou, or Monstr.

 

Who she would vote...berf and tommy then me but I was evidently based off of a misunderstanding on Key's part.

 

Staying consistently on berf and Tommy.

 

Key, would you lynch Verb?

I would prefer not, as I have Verb as null. I read his iso and haven't seen anything in his posts that look super scummy to me. I am also admittedly working off Leelou not going after him right now because she can read him infinitely better than me.

 

Mention of Verb.

 

On mobile, so I don't have colors, sorry.

Monstr - Blue
Des - Dark green
Yates/Leelou - Dark Green

Arsis - Green
Cory/hallia - Green
dice - green

Alanna - light green/yellow
Thane - light green/yellow

Verb - yellow (null)
Sili - yellow (null)

Rags - yellow/slight orange **moved up from orange since I was mistaken about his AJ vote**
Pral - yellow/slight orange

Tommy - orange
Berf - orange

AJ - Purple (3rd party)

I've asked BFG to supply one as well, though I'm not sure if she'll check in before DL.

Still staying very consistent.

 

Most recent list of reads.

 

We're having trouble because we don't think anyone has been overtly scummy.  

 

The current bottom of our list reads like this:

 

Pral, because we don't understand how he got his reads and feel like he's put in minimal effort, even for him.

 

Alanna, through POE and also because I remember her being cautious as scum and I don't think there is anything she's posted that couldn't come from an overly cautious scum.  

 

Rags, through POE, because I didn't like the minimal effort when he was beginning to catch up, we don't know his style - except that he can make himself difficult to read.

 

Not sure on the fourth slot.  BFG has Verb, but I don't have that same vibe.  Dice is looking more sketchy to me after his first few posts simply because I cannot follow his logic, and that's usually not the case whenever there is towndice.  

 

Tinfoiling on Yates/Leelou some now, because of Yates's discussion on who the NK was and he didn't bring up manbat, which we thought was an obvious candidate due to how universally townread he was at the time. 

Starting to very subtly move off of some of the earlier town reads of dice and Alanna which I don't hate as it does show some progression.

 

What stood out is that after all that talk of berf early on, there is absolutely no mention of why berf is no longer a top scumread.  That could easily read as an early soft distance that Key wanted to back off from as the game went off. 

 

 

 

After reading both, I could definitely see them as being scum but I think a later ISO on someone else may prove more concrete.  The periods of inactivity from both(no fault of their own, not saying that) makes it a bit difficult to get an idea of progressing their thoughts.

[Yates]

Would everyone unvote PLEASE??!! JFC.

 

How about we don't derp ourselves to a loss???

[Yates]

Getting caught up. Before I respond to Manbat's Des-level conf-bias derp posting, I need to do this:

 

Welp, I used my doctoring on Des last night.  He seems to be the only person who believes me.

Oh? You're The Doctor now, ehe?

 

Was Des REALLY the most likely NK target, though? Need better reasoning then "because he believes me!!!" Quite frankly you had ONE job with that shot if Town. And that was to keep scum from killing a TOWNIE. Your excuse for a protection target is pretty crumby, if you ask me.

 

Which claim did you believe most, yesterday? Don't lie. I'm going to look it up. THAT is the person a Town Doc would protect.

 

 

We didn't jail Yates or Arsis, so I don't know if we were blocked or not.

 

I'd rather Lates revealed their target and then I'll see if it matched ours.

 

Why assume it was me or Pral, when we know that mafia have a blocking role?

Why assume JK or RB? I'm not. Those were the known Town blocks.

 

 

 

We do know [scum] have a blocking role

 

Or [Lates] possibly could have viewed the person we jailed.

Tell us who you JKed and I'll show you the N3 crumb.

[Yates]

Welp.

 

We tracked Hallia.

Yeah. Missed all of this page. Before typing.

 

My crumbs were the 11th Doctor [because Corlia is in slot 11] AND I called her logic "crumby."

 

Thought they were good crumbs. Heh.

[Yates]

Here's my one question to Manbat before I go ape nuts on him;

 

WHAT WERE YOUR N1 and N2 RESULTS?!

 

I'd like this answered BEFORE Krak answers BFG.

[Yates]

@Manbat - actually a second question; did you take anything said D3 into consideration during your "Day One ISO?" I see you took some of Day 2 into account.

[Yates]

Just bear with me on this, Des. I know you have him as Blue. But there's something REALLY bothering me. If he answers this as I would expect a Townie to, then I think we need to lynch Hally with extreme prejudice b/c she is a scum PR.

[Yates]

Blah. It's a Sunday so I can't sit around and wait all day. Let me just respond to these:

 

 

So here's where I'm at...  Haven't run this past Leelou yet but  *think* we both agree that Tom is a disgusting flea ridden wolf.  I'm especially leery of his attempts at strong arming the thread and intimidating people - Sili is the one that comes to mind because I think Town Tom and I both agree that Sili has good reads but can be easily drown out.
 
That does not bode well for Monster, unfortunately.  Monster isn't Town telling.  That and the nonsense clear on each other's slots by the two of you are completely unacceptable.  You may as well claim masons now or get explaining.  Because there is nothing ITT to make me think anyone should be able to clear either one of you.  
 
There's at least 1 wolf in Tommy/Manbat

The first bolded doesn't make sense to me. Why include the descriptor "Town Tom"?

 

Why include the "Town Tom" descriptor?  Because: context.  You were able to ascertain that we thought Tommy was a wolf at the time of this post [per the bold red] but couldn't figure out that what I was saying is that *IF* Tommy was Town he'd agree with my Sili statement??   At that point, Sili was a stronger Town read to me than Tommy.  This is a pretty weak/weird thing to point out.

 

Every time I've seen tom and aj fight like this it's been v/v btw

 

ahahaha literally EVERY time

Nope. It wasn't v/v. It was v/sk. Did you forget this because you are a scum butt?

 

I used this in my last scum game saying "you are both Town" to Verb and Krak.

I still think we should lynch Tina first. Tina flips scum and we don't have to go down this path. You guys are both Town. No idea why you aren't seeing that.

[monstrman]

Lol to a scum an sk is still v.

 

Sk is basically a vigilante, basically also still a member of the town with only the caveat that he also wants to kill townies as well as scum

 

The sk still scumhunts, so in theory that was still pretty accurate.

[monstrman]

And you're welcome to push me for any reason you wish. I guarantee you the village lynches you looooooooooong before me