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WoT If…All My Predictions Were Wrong?

Posted by Mashiara Sedai on Jan 29 2013 04:00 AM under in Theory Blog

Welcome back to this special edition of "WoT If?".  Why is it special?  Because we're allowed to include A Memory of Light spoilers!  So, I'd like to take a look at all my past theories and cry over how far off they were from what actually happened.




Let's start backwards and work our way to the beginning.  I'll try to organize my thoughts as best I can.


1. The Aiel


The Aiel didn't submit to the Seanchan; I was totally wrong on that one.  They did give up their hatred, though.  They did agree that they would have to let the collared Wise Ones go.  In that, I was semi-right.  Of course, with the deal Egwene made with Tuon, all the Wise Ones will be released, so the Aiel won't have to suffer the a'dam for much longer.


2. Moridin


Moridin didn't turn out to be a double agent.  None of the Forsaken returned to the Light.  I thought for a moment it would be Lanfear, since Rand opened himself up to her, showing her his true feelings and intentions (A Memory of Light, Chapter 12, "A Shard of a Moment").  Instead, that made her even more bitter.  Perhaps it could be argued that Moghedien or Graendal could come back to the Light.  The a'dam might reform Moghedien, and Graendal's Compulsion could lead her back if Aviendha wishes it of her.


3. Gawyn and Egwene


A few of the deaths I predicted were right: Gawyn, Birgitte, Rhuarc, Tenobia, and Bashere.  In all honesty, I never, ever expected Egwene to die.  It was the most shocking part of the book for me, possibly even in the whole series.  But, looking back, there are some hints that this will come to pass.  There are dreams she has where she sees the possibility of her own death:


A Crown of Swords

Chapter 10, "Unseen Eyes"


Straps at waist and shoulder held her tightly to the block, and the headsman’s axe descended, but she knew that somewhere someone was running, and if they ran fast enough, the axe would stop. If not...In that corner of her mind, she felt a chill.


Lord of Chaos

Chapter 15, "A Pile of Sand"


In another he [Gawyn] began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.


The first might be her trying to get to Gawyn.  She ran to him and he ran to her, but neither made it in time.  Because of that, the "axe" descends on her.  With the loss of Gawyn, Egwene fought harder than she should have, bringing her own downfall. 


The same could be said about the second dream.  With Gawyn closing the door (dying), Egwene also dies.


4. Fain


I was wrong about Rand killing Fain.  I think every theory I've seen on Fain has been wrong.  I made five different predictions that were likely to happen.  None of them were fulfilled in A Memory of Light.  There was such a build-up for Fain, but he turned out to be a red herring of sorts.  His presence—and his death—at the Last Battle were completely pointless.  They added nothing, one way or the other, that I saw.


I'm on my second read-through of the book, and it's a bit more obvious to pick out the literary logic of Fain.  Rand is occupied at Shayol Ghul, and there are two entities trying to kill him: Slayer and Fain.  Naturally, Slayer is dealt with by Perrin, so logically Mat should handle the other.  Makes sense.  I'll admit, my heart lurched when Mashadar touched Mat.  I had a moment of panic before I remembered Mat couldn't possibly die (because of the possibility of the outrigger novel).  Though this scene felt a bit rushed and anti-climactic, I really enjoyed the irony of it.


5. Cadsuane


I was wrong about Cadsuane dying as well.  I guess I overanalyzed the foreshadowing on that one.  I also enjoyed the irony of that scene.  Cadsuane left the White Tower to avoid being raised Amyrlin (according to Robert Jordan's notes), so it's funny that they catch her off guard right after the Last Battle is finished.  I believe since the words were spoken, she has no choice but to answer the summons of the Hall.


6. Alivia


Alivia: not evil.  Wow.  This was a complete shock to me.  I really thought all the signs were there for her to turn out to be a Darkfriend, at the very least, or some high-up Shadow Official.  Not so.  She turned out to be what she said she was—as far as we know.  And she did "help" Rand die.  Of course, there are still some ways we can speculate about Alivia.  Someone did theorize that she could be part of the royal family of Seanchan.  I'm sure we can continue the discussion of her as the theory blog continues in March.


7. Galad


What of Elaida's "The Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle" (The Shadow Rising, Chapter 1, "Seeds of Shadow")?  You could say it was Rand all along, but what about the efforts of Galad?  He was given the copied foxhead medallion and went to fight Demandred.  He didn't win, but he was responsible for the ter'angreal finding its way into the hands of Lan, who did defeat Demandred, causing the battle at Merrilor to be won.  It's arguable.


8. Mat


Mat's role in the Last Battle was probably expected of most people, but not me.  I really expected him to do no more than sound the Horn.  That whole plotline smacked me right in the face!  Mat almost single-handedly won the battle at Merrilor.  And it was an incredible battle!  It was right for Mat to be in charge.  Having the Great Captains lead, like I assumed they would, lead to near defeat.  I guess the Shadow thinks like I do.


Also in regards to Mat, I never expected that he wasn't still bound to the Horn (and I gave some proof as to why).  Still, I loved the way it played out, especially Olver's sweetly sad reunion with Jain:


A Memory of Light

Chapter 39, "Those Who Fight"


"Noal, they said you died!" Olver cried.


"I did," Noal said, then laughed.  "The Pattern was not finished with me, son.  Sound that Horn!  Sound it proudly, Hornsounder!"


Olver did so, blowing the Horn as Noal fought the Trollocs back in a small circle around Olver. Noal. Noal was one of the heroes of the Horn!  The hooves of galloping horses announced others, come to rescue Olver from the Shadowspawn.


Suddenly, Olver felt a deep warmth. He had lost so many people, but one of them…one…had come back for him.


This scene is what The Wheel of Time is all about.  Touching and emotional and just perfect.  One of my favorites in the whole book.


9. Rand


So, what did we learn about the voice at the end of The Eye of the World?  I guess the answer was it belonged to the Creator.  Looking at the return of that voice, Rand seems to think that's who it was.


A Memory of Light

Chapter 23, "At the Edge of Time"


He did want to do this right.  He had to do this right.  Was it the right time?  Had he planned well enough?




The voice spoke with the inevitability of an earthquake, the words vibrating through him.  More than sound in the air, far more, the words spoke as if from one soul to another.  Moiraine gasped, eyes opening wide.


Rand was not surprised.  He had heard this voice once before, and he realized that he had been expecting it.  Hoping for it, at least.


"Thank you," Rand whispered, then stepped forward into the Dark One's realm, leaving footprints of blood behind.


Rand, because of his thanks and his hope, assumes it is the Creator, that the Creator is giving him permission to continue.  It makes sense.  I don't know if the Dark One would really welcome the Dragon Reborn into his lair.  He knows Rand must come, but he probably wouldn't give consent to the timing. 


However, here, the capital voice isn't italicized too, like it is in The Eye of the World.  That's a bit curious.


Besides that answer about Rand's encounters at the Eye, no more is revealed.  We are still left wondering about the true power of the Eye and what effect it did have on Rand.


For the blog I wrote about Nicola's "The Dragon Reborn will do nine impossible things" (Crossroads of Twilight, Chapter 17, "Secrets"), only one prediction was correct!  He survived the Last Battle, which most of us knew he would do anyway.  I wonder if there are other impossible things he did that would count, rather than the ones I came up with.


10. Logain


I will admit to total failure in my prediction about everything related to Logain and the Black Tower.  The Asha'man never came to Caemlyn's aid, nor did Logain go off on a secret recruiting mission.  I'm so glad that the resolution in the Black Tower was able to be squeezed into this book, and I love Logian's character development and flaws, despite that nothing happened the way I thought it would.  


11. Nynaeve


And one of my biggest predictions, the one I thought had to be right, Nynaeve Healing death: WRONG.  While I really liked the idea of Nynaeve accomplishing this feat, I understand it wouldn't work in the context of this world.  If she did it once, she could do it again, and would do it again.  A world full of immortals isn't a good thing. 


Am I embarrassed that I got so much wrong?  A bit.  But at the same time, I'm glad I tried to think outside the box (and outside of theories that had already been circulating).  I think this just shows that Robert Jordan was a genius.  Look how much he kept us guessing.  Look how much we still got wrong!  There's no denying he was a master storyteller and a very skilled writer.  A Memory of Light is a fitting end to his legacy.


That's all for this special edition.  Join us in March for new theories.  I kept a notebook beside me and jotted down tons of notes.  There are still many topics we can discuss as the Wheel keeps turning.  Thanks for reading!

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Posted by Mashiara Sedai on Jan 29 2013 04:00 AM under in Theory Blog


I am proud to say that I did okay with my predictions.  Got some WAY wrong, but got a few right.  I refer you to my comments from the previous Theory Blog from Jan 1:

  • "Body swap ftw
  • Mat will kill Padan Fain.  Fair to say he has unfinished business with Mordeth.
  • All Forsaken will die, none of them willingly.
  • Perrin will not be the one to kill Slayer.  Wolves are pack hunters, and Perrin is done fighting with his inner wolf.  Perrin will serve as bait because he knows Slayer won't expect that.  Faile will kill Luc, or Elyas will kill Isam, or both. which Slayer will not see coming.  I'm dropping theory bombs up in here!  Somebody stop me!!
  • And my final Looniest of the Looney Bin Theory, which I found written on the inside collar of my straight-jacket: Egwene gets collared again, facing her last biggest fear.  I make no predictions about whether or not she gets free before the end."

Okay, first off, I TOTALLY nailed Padan Fain's killer.  HAD to be Mat.  This one was a no-brainer for me.


Also the body swap.  This one was also predicted by many, so it's not MY theory, but I did subscribe to it almost immediately after hearing about it.


I said that all Forsaken will die, which was obviously wrong, but they were all defeated quite soundly, and in some cases, suffered fates far worse than death (such as slavery).  But I was correct that none of them would turn to the Light.


Perrin WAS the one who killed Slayer, so I was WRONG WRONG WRONG! Embarrassingly wrong.  Like, "what-the-heck-was-I-thinkin'" wrong.


And my big final looney theory about Egwene being collared again was also completely wrong, but I was right that something really big and really bad was going to happen to Egwene.  But in the end, she stood as tall as any character in the entire series.  We can only dream that one day our deaths will mean as much.  Tai'Shar, Tar Valon.


The one that caught me completely off-guard (though some had it right) was Demandred being in Shara all this time.  Almost everyone thought he was in Murandy, and indeed, even Rand thought so.  Remember that scene where Rand looks Roedram in the eye and says "You're really not him, are you?"  I think that was Brandon Sanderson telling all of us "GOTCHA!"  And rightly so.  Most of us were completely fooled.  I gave absolutely NO credence to the theories that he was in Shara, and I was TOTALLY fooled.  Well played, Team Jordan.  Well played.


And Mashiara, I am also glad that you kept thinking outside the box.  It made this Theory Blog better.  Somebody had to be the one to talk out all of the possibilities, and that was you!


I'm glad about the way most things turned out. I was in complete shock when Egwene died. I cried. In fact my emotions were all over the place with this book and I have never had any book effect me so drastically. I knew that not all of the characters would make it out alive but still....Great book and I can't wait for the book signing in Philly on the 19th.

Aren't the dreams Egwene had about Gawyn returning from Caemlyn in time to defeat the bloodknives in the previous book?

... then we get to experience the book again!

Amazing ending. Robert Jordan and Brandon were amazing as they kept us guessing, and mostly guessing wrong, till the end. It shows just how well written the series is, and how in depth the world of WoT is. My emotions reflected the main characters emotions throughout the book. The only thing i would wish for is that the series didn't end.... the legacy lives on, but without the amazing writing of the authors to keep us on our toes, it will not be the same as expanding the world in your mind. But i realise, that all series have to end, and that it cannot actually become the real world. Sometimes i wish for that though.

I think it was definitively answered as the voice of the Creator since Rand then comments that the Dark One is startled by his presence when he enters The Pit.  If the Voice spoke before that, then there's only one possible answer as to the origins of said Voice.  

I took my time and read the book slowly.. savoring each scene break and chapter end... even bought a nice bottle of scotch to sip while reading... 

Noal coming back of olver actually made me tear up, just a bit...  Egwene dying shocked me as well, though after Gawyn I sensed her time was about at an end...  I feel as though many of the important deaths occured "off-screen". Narrative reasons aside, how Siuan died, mentioning the deaths of Bryne, Bashar and others almost as an aside seemed overly dismissive.. not everyone needs a big death scene, granted, just feel as though this characters' deaths deserved a bit more attention... 

I sadly have to admit my prediction (at the same time my worst nightmare) has come true. Epilogue is shallow and not in WoT spirit (not epic). I'm a little bit disappointed because almost all chapters in the series are written better and more detailed.

Beside that I only guessed true Lan will survive.


Wow! Wrong on Lanfear's bailer, lol. Still on book nine, though I am getting distracted reading AMoL. REALLY COOL BOOK!!!!!!

Second reading of AMoL

On number 2, Moridin carried out his own body (i.e. Rand). Does this not imply that he did, in fact, return to the light? Or is it supposed that Rand only swopped bodies later on?

Loved Cadsuane's ironic fate............some think she should have died, but she will think this is worse than death. I never liked her, but had a good laugh reading that. 

RSA, it was Rand carrying out Moridin's body--Moridin, I think, had his personality fried by channeling so much of the True Power.  He was alive, but fading.  Rand carried out the body, and once outside, he grasped that fine thread that connected the two of them and merged them together, then separating into the opposite body.  That way, Rand (in Moridin's body), recovered since he had no physical wounds.  Moridin (in Rand's body), eventually faded because of too much True Power.


I don't think Moridin had anything in mind but his own desire to cease living.  He didn't do anything that aided the Light.

Either way is possible I suppose (even though your thoughts might be more likely). I would like to think that Morridin carries out Rand's personality and then switches so that he can die - as a sort of thanks for releasing him from the DO's influence and a final good act. 

I absolutely loved that book. I love the way Olver blew the horn - perfect! And this may be completely irrelevant, but I wish Bela hadn't died. If Rand had ended up riding away on Bela... ah, well. Doesn't detract from the epicness overload at all. :)

I was more of the impression that Elan Morin died, but not the way that he wanted.  He wanted a FINAL death, one where he would never come back.  He considered his current life as Moridin a punishment from the DO for coming to believe that he WAS the DO back when he was Ishamael.  The way I understood it, Rand's body was bleeding out from the wound in his side, and after the body swap, Moridin was then trapped in Rand's fading body, and died from loss of blood, assuring that he would indeed be reborn again at some point.  His punishment is that he'll NEVER get a final death.  That's more about the contrast between Rand and Moridin: Rand sees rebirth as a good thing (a chance to love again and fix your own mistakes) but Moridin sees rebirth as a cosmic joke and seeks only to end his own existence once and for all.  Rand got what he wanted: a chance at a normal life.  Moridin did NOT get what he wanted: a chance at a final death.




The more I think about Elan Morin, the more I come to realize what a fascinating character he really is, from a literary perspective.  Very complex bad guy.  Now my favorite character after reading AMoL.  I shall never knock RJ, but think Sanderson really brought something special to Ishy's character.

I was not too pleased about the body-swapping.  I never liked that theory.  But what's done is done.


I was shocked that Lan, Perrin, and Faile all lived!  ANd absolutely crushed by the deaths of Egwene and Bela. 


And my latest thought...Brigitte tells Elayne that she is going to be reborn very soon, and that Gaidal will only be a few years older than she.  I think Brigitte will be reborn as one of Elayne's children, and Olver is Gaidal.  Maybe?

@ahtullai RJ already said that oliver is not gaidal... i believe the best theory, is that he's a child of one of the ashaman... the one who's described as having a "face like a stump"... his name skips me at the moment...


there was another tale of a pair of twins who herald a new age, i believe elaynes twins to be these...

I agree about Bela and Egwene's death, ahtullai!  They were both very shocking.  Also, I think mark is correct about Elayne's twins.  They might be Calian and Shivan, twin Heroes of the Horn that bring about a new Age.  I think Birgitte was going into the body of someone who was being born that moment.  Elyane still has a few months on her pregnancy.  Also, Gaidal Cain is rumored to be Gadren Grady, Jur Grady's son.

@mashiara yea, i was kind of expecting rand to ride off on bela into the sunset...


as for egwene, i dont like it, but i see why it had to happen... she and rand mirrored eachother throughout the books, as rand left, so must egwene have... and she didnt have another body to hide in...

Egwene didn't shock me as it just was too out place to have such a young human with instant knowledge base. I thought Mat would've come up with a brilliant plan to eliminate Demandred using Egwene and Logain jumping in out of different gates to distract him while Lan was the first decoy and Mat was the executioner. Mat was the only accomplished fighter that could out match Demandred in experience. If command staff is on the field that is where you strike forcing the game to go into free fall. Egwene's death looks pointless as her monument was lost, it would've been better if Demandred took her life or she sacrificed herself to allow Mat the kill move.


It would've been glorious if the other forsaken joined in but alas that is not what was written which doesn't mean it isn't a great ending to a great and one of a kind series, no, it was riveting.

@azeraph i thought mat would be the one to kill demandred, just as he beat gawyn&galad in tarvalon... i see foreshadowing for mat, but not for lan...


“Who was the greatest blademaster of all time?”
From the throats of dozens of students came a massed bellow. “Jearom, Gaidin!”
“Yes!” Hammar shouted, turning to make sure all heard. “During his lifetime, Jearom fought over ten thousand times, in battle and single combat. He was defeated once. By a farmer with a quarterstaff. Remember that. Remember what you just saw.” He lowered his eyes to Galad, and lowered his voice as well. “If you cannot get up by now, lad, it is finished. “ He raised a hand, and the Aes Sedai and Accepted rushed to surround Galad.


In many ways it would've been good for Lan to go out in a blaze of glory to Demandred but then that would change the game with Nynaeve.


As a kid i trained in a native martial art using something similar to Mat's Ashanderei but it was semi bladed or shaped like a blade on one end. A master generally can wipe out a swordsman very fast. Spinning them around is for performance displays, no, you won't see any spinning or wide open moves that leave you open during a fight. You will see lightning fast hits and something called wrist flicking which doubles the force of a impact hit and double ended moves to impact two opposite places on the body within a second from the first. Combination moves and lightning fast delivery and defense usually has the opponent down in seconds.

My prediction came true they used both the op and the tp to seal the bore

My prediction came true they used both the op and the tp to seal the bore


I didn't think the True Power would work, since the Dark One's power shouldn't be able to be used against him.  But I should have realized Rand would buffer it with the One Power--like he buffered saidin with saidar during the cleansing.  I'm glad it happened that way, but I sure didn't predict it.

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