[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

[Lenlo]

Screw it, lets go.

 

[v]Sili[/v]

 

Ill probably lose this today, but ill flip town and then your crap will come to light.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

So, people had Clov/Darthe as a team right? Does Darthe flipping town throw any sort of wrench into that?

 

With 2 kills either 

A) Town has a Vig and they shot Darthe, simply because shooting Nin isnt a towny shot

B) Wolves have a Vig, unlikely if they also have an RB.

C) SK.

 

The two more likely ones are A and C imo. The question is, if town has a Vig why would they not shoot me? Im clearly being wolf read by alot of people so odds of the vig being one of them would be pretty high. So why shoot Darthe over me? This leads me to believe its actually an SK that either got blocked or holstered N1.

 

With that im really sketch of Sili, he has third party equity imo.

People were reading you as town based on your D2...why would you think a vig would kill you?

 

 

1. Afew people were reading me town D2. Very clearly, a number of people were not yesterday, were not after the Dice flip and are not today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ive been so so nice for the longest time. Im the brst

Do it. Bet ya wont.

 

Lenlo, why do you not appear to care about pushing your suspects this game?

Because im naturally flippant?

 

Also because my suspects were going along fine without the need to interject myself. No need to throw a wrench just for the sake of throwing a wrench if its going the way I want. Dice and Nin were sketch, Nin claimed, so go Dice. Nin was sketch for aforementioned reasons, Dice was blatantly lying in ways that made me and Chris out as wolves.

 

But now that Dice has flipped, we know he wasn't lying. He was mistaken. So why are you sticking to the narrative that he was lying?

 

 

Because its not a narrative, so dont call it one? Thats a word with negative connotations in mafia, that your using on purpose.

 

2. Mistaken or not, on purpose or not, he was lying. That is a fact.

You're right, I did use it on purpose. Because I'm questioning why you would say that someone you know know is a fellow townie is lying?

 

Mistaken is not lying. Mistaken is mistaken. Vocabulary matters. As you pointed out by getting all upset about me calling your description a narrative

Mistaken is when you misread something. Misquote something. Lying is when someone points out that your mistaken multiple times, gives you proof, other people also tell you your wrong, and you keep on going with it. It was lying. Thats it. I will not debate this anymore.

 

 

1. But what makes you so special that a vig would choose you over Darthe at that point when Darthe was loudly and brazenly scumming it up in the thread?

And even if you were special to some people, why would you assume that the vig is one of those people that you're so special to?

 

2. So when you said "mistaken or not....it's lying..." and then you state that mistaken is different from lying...I'm supposed to think...what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

So, people had Clov/Darthe as a team right? Does Darthe flipping town throw any sort of wrench into that?

 

With 2 kills either 

A) Town has a Vig and they shot Darthe, simply because shooting Nin isnt a towny shot

B) Wolves have a Vig, unlikely if they also have an RB.

C) SK.

 

The two more likely ones are A and C imo. The question is, if town has a Vig why would they not shoot me? Im clearly being wolf read by alot of people so odds of the vig being one of them would be pretty high. So why shoot Darthe over me? This leads me to believe its actually an SK that either got blocked or holstered N1.

 

With that im really sketch of Sili, he has third party equity imo.

People were reading you as town based on your D2...why would you think a vig would kill you?

 

 

1. Afew people were reading me town D2. Very clearly, a number of people were not yesterday, were not after the Dice flip and are not today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ive been so so nice for the longest time. Im the brst

Do it. Bet ya wont.

 

Lenlo, why do you not appear to care about pushing your suspects this game?

Because im naturally flippant?

 

Also because my suspects were going along fine without the need to interject myself. No need to throw a wrench just for the sake of throwing a wrench if its going the way I want. Dice and Nin were sketch, Nin claimed, so go Dice. Nin was sketch for aforementioned reasons, Dice was blatantly lying in ways that made me and Chris out as wolves.

 

But now that Dice has flipped, we know he wasn't lying. He was mistaken. So why are you sticking to the narrative that he was lying?

 

 

Because its not a narrative, so dont call it one? Thats a word with negative connotations in mafia, that your using on purpose.

 

2. Mistaken or not, on purpose or not, he was lying. That is a fact.

You're right, I did use it on purpose. Because I'm questioning why you would say that someone you know know is a fellow townie is lying?

 

Mistaken is not lying. Mistaken is mistaken. Vocabulary matters. As you pointed out by getting all upset about me calling your description a narrative

Mistaken is when you misread something. Misquote something. Lying is when someone points out that your mistaken multiple times, gives you proof, other people also tell you your wrong, and you keep on going with it. It was lying. Thats it. I will not debate this anymore.

 

 

 

Dammit, quotation fail...ebwop

 

 

 

1. But what makes you so special that a vig would choose you over Darthe at that point when Darthe was loudly and brazenly scumming it up in the thread?

And even if you were special to some people, why would you assume that the vig is one of those people that you're so special to?

 

2. So when you said "mistaken or not....it's lying..." and then you state that mistaken is different from lying...I'm supposed to think...what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

 

So, people had Clov/Darthe as a team right? Does Darthe flipping town throw any sort of wrench into that?

 

With 2 kills either 

A) Town has a Vig and they shot Darthe, simply because shooting Nin isnt a towny shot

B) Wolves have a Vig, unlikely if they also have an RB.

C) SK.

 

The two more likely ones are A and C imo. The question is, if town has a Vig why would they not shoot me? Im clearly being wolf read by alot of people so odds of the vig being one of them would be pretty high. So why shoot Darthe over me? This leads me to believe its actually an SK that either got blocked or holstered N1.

 

With that im really sketch of Sili, he has third party equity imo.

People were reading you as town based on your D2...why would you think a vig would kill you?

 

 

1. Afew people were reading me town D2. Very clearly, a number of people were not yesterday, were not after the Dice flip and are not today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ive been so so nice for the longest time. Im the brst

Do it. Bet ya wont.

 

Lenlo, why do you not appear to care about pushing your suspects this game?

Because im naturally flippant?

 

Also because my suspects were going along fine without the need to interject myself. No need to throw a wrench just for the sake of throwing a wrench if its going the way I want. Dice and Nin were sketch, Nin claimed, so go Dice. Nin was sketch for aforementioned reasons, Dice was blatantly lying in ways that made me and Chris out as wolves.

 

But now that Dice has flipped, we know he wasn't lying. He was mistaken. So why are you sticking to the narrative that he was lying?

 

 

Because its not a narrative, so dont call it one? Thats a word with negative connotations in mafia, that your using on purpose.

 

2. Mistaken or not, on purpose or not, he was lying. That is a fact.

You're right, I did use it on purpose. Because I'm questioning why you would say that someone you know know is a fellow townie is lying?

 

Mistaken is not lying. Mistaken is mistaken. Vocabulary matters. As you pointed out by getting all upset about me calling your description a narrative

Mistaken is when you misread something. Misquote something. Lying is when someone points out that your mistaken multiple times, gives you proof, other people also tell you your wrong, and you keep on going with it. It was lying. Thats it. I will not debate this anymore.

 

 

Dammit, quotation fail...ebwop

 

 

 

1. But what makes you so special that a vig would choose you over Darthe at that point when Darthe was loudly and brazenly scumming it up in the thread?

And even if you were special to some people, why would you assume that the vig is one of those people that you're so special to?

 

2. So when you said "mistaken or not....it's lying..." and then you state that mistaken is different from lying...I'm supposed to think...what?

 

And it's still a fail...but I think it's readable. Let me know if you want to debate it, Lenlo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BFG]

Chris, what bad conclusion am I reaching?

[Lizabeth]

 

[v]lenlo[/v]

 

Just saw his response about dice.

 

I think thats a really weak answer and confirms my suspicion.

Really? What did my response confirm?

 

It is a fact that he lied. Even after it was proven to him he was wrong, he kept saying and pushing it.

 

What would be his motivation to lie about thinking that you and Chris were mafia mates if he was town, though?

[Lizabeth]

Screw it, lets go.

 

[v]Sili[/v]

 

Ill probably lose this today, but ill flip town and then your crap will come to light.

Wow.

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

[BFG]

Liz, what's made me move up your list?

[Sili Quirrels]

Not really interested in fighting u since youre a wolf.

Lenlos response confirmed to me he only cares about defending himself. Thats why he said dice lied not that he was mistaken.

 

And i read their dialogue. Lenlo didnt try to understand dice just like he didnt try to understand me. Dice was wrong but he did have a point. Probably just poor communication. They were talking over one another.

 

Im not saying lenlo is the only one who thought ill of dice but i at least now know he is town and i thought about the conversation enough to reinterpret it in light of new information.

[Lenlo]

 

 

[v]lenlo[/v]

 

Just saw his response about dice.

 

I think thats a really weak answer and confirms my suspicion.

Really? What did my response confirm?

 

It is a fact that he lied. Even after it was proven to him he was wrong, he kept saying and pushing it.

 

What would be his motivation to lie about thinking that you and Chris were mafia mates if he was town, though?

 

Dont know if you said anything in those quote fails. Didnt read them.

 

Oh my god, thats not what he was lying about. He was no doubt sincere in the belief of who was mafia. He was lying about my actions and what I did in regards to EoD D1. Do you not even know that and yet your arguing with me about whether or not he was lying?

 

 

Screw it, lets go.

 

[v]Sili[/v]

 

Ill probably lose this today, but ill flip town and then your crap will come to light.

Wow.

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Much wow. Many reasons. Please give.

[Lenlo]

 

Not really interested in fighting u since youre a wolf.

Lenlos response confirmed to me he only cares about defending himself. Thats why he said dice lied not that he was mistaken.

 

And i read their dialogue. Lenlo didnt try to understand dice just like he didnt try to understand me. Dice was wrong but he did have a point. Probably just poor communication. They were talking over one another.

 

Im not saying lenlo is the only one who thought ill of dice but i at least now know he is town and i thought about the conversation enough to reinterpret it in light of new information.

 

What? Thats not true. I understood where Dice was coming from so I patiently described, with bullet points, exactly why what he was saying was wrong. Would I be able to explain why he was wrong if I didnt understand the argument he was making in the first place?

[Sili Quirrels]

Lol.

 

I wont tdome you though. I just want to make my stance clear.

[Lenlo]

Lol.

 

I wont tdome you though. I just want to make my stance clear.

So you wont let me prove you wrong?

[wish-tree]

I'll be here in about 30 min, turboing

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

Liz - 

 

1) Who do you want to lynch today?

2) Why do you feel good about my EoD actions?  

3) Did you ever go back and find that post of mine I asked you about before?

 

1. I'll let you know when I know

2. You know I love you, right? But you had a diva fit and the diva fit felt genuine. And when I read it all in context, I could understand what your thought process was and what you were trying to accomplish.

3) Nope. You want to link me to it now?

 

 

1) That's not an answer.

 

2) I don't really buy this.  You know me as a PERSON incredibly well.  When have you ever seen me just have a diva fit?  BFG seems to be reaching a bad conclusion because of it, but her justification makes sense.  It is somewhat uncharacteristic of me (Alanna might disagree....), and given that it could have put somebody at risk that I really didn't have any reason for being independently scummy, it seems strange to feel good about it.

 

What, EXACTLY, is your take on what I was trying to achieve?

 

3)  Not really, but I'll do it anyway.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-3/page-144?do=findComment&comment=3665616

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-3/page-144?do=findComment&comment=3665617

 

 

BFG - I'm going to say this one time, and one time alone, because I get why you (and Zander, for that matter) weren't thrilled about my garbage reasons.  I wasn't either, and I said as much - there's a reason they're called garbage reasons FOR a reason.  But at the end of the day, I'm human, and I'm influenced by things beyond the flow of the thread...even when I try not to be.  

 

I've played three games with Liz.  She actually plays less frequently than I do.  One turbo on MU, Mafia Karts here, and a game on PerC.  I've randed mafia in all three, and she's been town in all three.  She was also killed very quickly in all three of them.  That didn't matter much in the PerC game because I died D1 anyways, but I digress.  

 

The reason I signed up for them is to play with her.  And in three tries, I haven't gotten the opportunity to work with her a single time.  Actually being town this game possibly gave me a chance to do that.  I wasn't confident it was incredibly likely at that point, but I also didn't have anything to completely rule it out, so I wasn't in a huge hurry to get rid of her.  If she's town and I lynch her, I'm basically removing one of TWO players (I don't think I need to tell you who the other is) from the game that I actually signed up to be in a game with and hurting my team.  If she's mafia, I obviously help my team, but I can try to find her teammates and still get a chance to PLAY with her.

 

 

The fact we're where we are and I don't have any reason to feel better about her is probably all I need to know about her alignment.  And if that's the case, you're probably 'objectively' right to think I should have pushed her sooner.  Sorry for trying to actually enjoy myself in a game for once - I won't do it again.

to the first part (as long as it's not a blatant attempt to pocket me)

 

for the second (assuming it wasn't a blatant attempt to pocket me), don't worry. I'm back now

 

 

At this point, I don't really care if you're back or not.

 

 

 

"1) That's not an answer."

 

We've had this argument before. I play how I play, you play how you play. It's an answer that when you asked it I didn't know who I wanted to lynch yet. Now I know one of them.

 

"2) I don't really buy this. You know me as a PERSON incredibly well. When have you ever seen me just have a diva fit? BFG seems to be reaching a bad conclusion because of it, but her justification makes sense. It is somewhat uncharacteristic of me (Alanna might disagree....), and given that it could have put somebody at risk that I really didn't have any reason for being independently scummy, it seems strange to feel good about it.

 

What, EXACTLY, is your take on what I was trying to achieve?"

 

The diva fit I was referring to - pardon the language - is you being upset about people not responding to your isos/analyses, and on first glance it looked like you were voting Besie out of ire, or pretending to vote her out of ire. But when I read through the progression it made more sense to me and it seemed like you had more logic behind it. It's something I probably would have done if I had the theory that Besie and Dice might be scum mates.

 

"3) Not really, but I'll do it anyway."

 

Thank you. I'll read it now and get back to you on it.

 

"At this point, I don't really care if you're back or not." Words hurt Chris...This is just a game.

[Lizabeth]

Liz, what's made me move up your list?

Your activity during the night, especially the isos, your actual pushes on people today.

 

To be honest, I was hesitating on you most of the game because I've always heard that you tend to be a strong town leader when you're town and you lay low when you're scum. For the first two days you felt kind of in the middle for me. But reading through last night and today you moved up. You're taking charge and taking names and all that :)

[Sili Quirrels]

You simplified def towards the end. Wasnt sure at the time what it meant. was just before dice started towntelling.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Lol.

 

I wont tdome you though. I just want to make my stance clear.

So you wont let me prove you wrong?

Im not wrong. Ill respond to my town core like usual.

[Lenlo]

 

 

Lol.

 

I wont tdome you though. I just want to make my stance clear.

So you wont let me prove you wrong?

Im not wrong. Ill respond to my town core like usual.

 

When I flip town, youll know your wrong.

 

Alright, then gimme abit until someone your willing to answer to comes in. Ill ask them to ask you a question, since you apparently refuse to talk to me except via proxy.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

[v]lenlo[/v]

 

Just saw his response about dice.

 

I think thats a really weak answer and confirms my suspicion.

Really? What did my response confirm?

 

It is a fact that he lied. Even after it was proven to him he was wrong, he kept saying and pushing it.

 

What would be his motivation to lie about thinking that you and Chris were mafia mates if he was town, though?

 

Dont know if you said anything in those quote fails. Didnt read them.

 

Oh my god, thats not what he was lying about. He was no doubt sincere in the belief of who was mafia. He was lying about my actions and what I did in regards to EoD D1. Do you not even know that and yet your arguing with me about whether or not he was lying?

 

 

Screw it, lets go.

 

[v]Sili[/v]

 

Ill probably lose this today, but ill flip town and then your crap will come to light.

Wow.

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Much wow. Many reasons. Please give.

 

You just got in a fight with me about the meaning of the words "lying" vs. "mistaken" as they pertain to a confirmed town, where you first claimed that they were the same thing, then you claimed that they were different and stated you weren't discussing it further instead of actually trying to help me understand how to resolve the two seemingly contradictory statements.

 

Then you just OMGUS vote Sili

 

So yeah, let's see where it goes.

 

Don't worry, we have two days for you to convince me and others otherwise :)

[wish-tree]

welp

 

I got merked

 

so I'm back earlier than expected

[Sili Quirrels]

Lenlo still treating me like town but at least he voted this time.

[Lenlo]

Heres my question: What does that matter? Does me saying he was lying, which he was, mean anything? Am I throwing shade on a dead man? Oh no, lets lynch the person whose already dead! Hes so wolfy cause Len threw shade on him! Oh nooooooo!

And again, you apparently dont even know what it is I caught him lying about. So how can you possibly have this discussion when you dont even know what its predicated on?

 

As for Sili, I suspected him for awhile. Bounced between whether or not it was my frustration or because he was actually wolfy. Not once did I say "Sili is town", so its hardly out of left field for me to vote him. His reasoning is once again crap btw, but he refuses to share it.

 

 

Lenlo still treating me like town but at least he voted this time.

What? Are you saying I cant be civil and want to talk about things with someone I think is a wolf? I have to be 100% hostile, throw them in a hole and tell them to stfu, just because I think they arnt town? How in gods name do you find their teammates if you dont talk to them, read what they are saying? No im not treating you like your town. Im treating you like your a human being with a working cerebellum. Maybe I shouldnt though.

[wish-tree]

Okay

 

Lenlo isoooooooooooooo time

 

before I deep dive, Sili, give me the case on him again?

 

Liz, what's your case?

 

Chris, you were defending Lenlo, right? Besides the explanation of how he moved from scum reading me to not willing to vote me over seph, what else did you find towny?

[wish-tree]

Lenlo, is your case on Sili because of the 'crap reasoning' he's given for you being a wolf?