MAFIA KART WII [BASIC] - Mafia Sweep

[Celeste]

I really need to sleep now.

[Celeste]

@Alanna I really want to hear from you about the players. Also can you use quotes instead of post numbers because it's quicker on mobile.

[Zander?]

 

I don't see how you can legitimately make that argument.  I quoted everything she said to/about you prior to your comment.  She had barely said anything about you, whatsoever, and she had substantially more content directed towards other players.

She accused me of being scum for my first 3 posts that I made while at dinner and after work!! How does that make me scum? This is why I don't even want to get into it because it becomes this huge argument where people take sides between us. It happened in the tower and true love and we were both wrong. If this is faking then i'm just going to stop this here.

 

 

And you didnt have a problem with it as Ive mentioned before.

 

I dont see how you just brush that off, I mean her read was off of next to nothing imo.

 

I mean if you guys have a history of reading each other wrong, wouldnt you at least CONSIDER the possibility that it would be an easy push for Scum!Liz to make?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I feel like she is already zeroing in on me because i'm the player she knows most here. I kind of don't want to clog the thread with this banter if it can be prevented. I would like for us to figure out a way to work together without tunneling to happen.

 

 

 

 

Wait...you think she's only Scum reading you because she knows you best?

 

In what way does that come from a Towny mindest from either of you???

 

If that's what you thought why the hell wouldnt you be voting her?

 

Am I missing something?

 

 

 

 

I feel like she is already zeroing in on me because i'm the player she knows most here. I kind of don't want to clog the thread with this banter if it can be prevented. I would like for us to figure out a way to work together without tunneling to happen.

 
Wait...you think she's only Scum reading you because she knows you best?
 
In what way does that come from a Towny mindest from either of you???
 
If that's what you thought why the hell wouldnt you be voting her?
 
Am I missing something?

It's me actually trying to read people without me overreacting like I do in almost every signal game I'm town in. I get tired of it. If I want to accurately guess alignments then it takes time and getting into tunnels with overreacting never helps.

 

 

This actually wasn't what I was thinking, but she's not wrong here.  That doesn't mean she's town by any stretch of the imagination, of course.  Still feeling marginally better about her here.

 

What I was going to say is that I don't think you took Penny's quote correctly, Zander.  I didn't think she was saying Liz was reading her one way or another because Liz knows her the best.  Based ont he wording, I took it to meant that Penny felt Liz had her under a microscope.  I still don't think that's a fair representation of the thread at all, but even if it were, I strongly disagree that it's worth voting her over.  

 

It's actually probably a good sign that somebody is going to try to get a read on the one player they actually know first.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I don't see how you can legitimately make that argument.  I quoted everything she said to/about you prior to your comment.  She had barely said anything about you, whatsoever, and she had substantially more content directed towards other players.

She accused me of being scum for my first 3 posts that I made while at dinner and after work!! How does that make me scum? This is why I don't even want to get into it because it becomes this huge argument where people take sides between us. It happened in the tower and true love and we were both wrong. If this is faking then i'm just going to stop this here.

 

 

And you didnt have a problem with it as Ive mentioned before.

 

I dont see how you just brush that off, I mean her read was off of next to nothing imo.

 

I mean if you guys have a history of reading each other wrong, wouldnt you at least CONSIDER the possibility that it would be an easy push for Scum!Liz to make?

 

 

I don't see how you read this thread and reach the conclusion Penny just brushed it off.

[Zander?]

 

 

Penny...IDK...just kind of overplayed it for me with her response to Liz calling her out.  I fully believe that that Penny would be annoyed if Liz was jumping down her throat early.  I know they've gotten into it a couple times in the past on PerC and just don't really work together.  So annoyance makes sense to me...but here, it just seems fake.

 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm. 

Scum!Lassie 

 

Uh Liz let's not actual tunnel unless you think it's actually scum me.

 

 

In a vacuum, sure.  I accept that.  But where is the tunnel?  This is EVERYTHING Liz had said about her to that point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Liz[/v] 

 

Predictable 

 

i haven't the slightest bit of preconception for anyone's habits here so this is sure to prove a stimulating challenge  

 

Good! I'm not the only one!

 

Well...that's not entirely true.... *eyes Zander and Celeste suspiciously*

 

Oh yeah and Thane - hi Thane!

 

 

 

 

I'm at work so no lynching me

 

 

But that's the best time to lynch you? 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm. 

Scum!Lassie 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not exactly what I'd call a tunnel, especially when you factor in how much attention she had put elsewhere prior to that.  If Liz had actually made any sort of effort to push Penny, or even insinuate she might be mafia, that's one thing.  But she didn't.

 

 

I was more worried about Liz's early snap scum read on Penny.

 

What are your thoughts on Liz?

 

 

If my suspicion of Penny is correct, I think she's pretty obviously spewed town at this point.  Even before that post, I would have had a hard time swallowing them as teammates, so I guess I would have gone town on Liz by association.

 

On her own merits, I really didn't have strong feelings about her one way or another.  I ~kinda know Liz's playstyle from talks she and I have had about game philosophy and that sort of thing, but my actual experience with her playing is running one turbo where she did a lot of snap reads and playing one turbo with her where I was mafia and didn't really pay attention to her thought process.  Based just on that, I can't rule out that Liz would have an early lean on Penny - they know each other pretty well, and the post that Liz called her out for being mafia didn't read as a really definitive stance to me, so it's nothing that stood out to me as being off.

 

Maybe I'd give her the slightest of townreads for that first post you quoted of her's just now?

 

 

 

But Penny said they both tend to read each other wrong.

 

I agree that i dont see them as w/w fwiw.

[Clovdyx]

What's your point?  I read people wrong all the time*.  That doesn't stop me from getting quick reads on them sometimes.  Sure, I try to give them some wiggle room so I can adjust as necessary, but it's not like Liz was exactly calling for Penny's head on a steak.

 

 

* it's a well documented fact Chris has never misread anyone in his life.  They just...don't flip the correct alignment sometimes

[Zander?]

I was speaking generally because it's something I always keep in mind. There is a slight chance for her to be either alignment and taking a stance for her calling me scum so quickly is just a big giant omgus if I don't think. Liz trying to solve me based on three posts is ridiculous and I didn't want to start it.

 

Youre worried that people will think youre OMGUSing her?

 

Townies are generally less concerned with appearance then Scum imo.

 

If you dont think?  Do you think its ridiculous?

[Celeste]

Page keeper

[Zander?]

 

 

Wait...you think she's only Scum reading you because she knows you best?

 

In what way does that come from a Towny mindest from either of you???

 

If that's what you thought why the hell wouldnt you be voting her?

 

Am I missing something?

It's me actually trying to read people without me overreacting like I do in almost every signal game I'm town in. I get tired of it. If I want to accurately guess alignments then it takes time and getting into tunnels with overreacting never helps.

 

 

Ok I can understand some of this, seeing I have done this same thing quite a few times with tunnels.

 

But I still cant see how your brush that off based off of the content she used to generate that read.

 

 

 

 

This actually wasn't what I was thinking, but she's not wrong here.  That doesn't mean she's town by any stretch of the imagination, of course.  Still feeling marginally better about her here.

 

What I was going to say is that I don't think you took Penny's quote correctly, Zander.  I didn't think she was saying Liz was reading her one way or another because Liz knows her the best.  Based ont he wording, I took it to meant that Penny felt Liz had her under a microscope.  I still don't think that's a fair representation of the thread at all, but even if it were, I strongly disagree that it's worth voting her over.  

 

It's actually probably a good sign that somebody is going to try to get a read on the one player they actually know first.

 

 

I think the fact she doesnt seem to be really suspicious of it at all is alarming.

 

I get that wanting to read people right part.  But I dont get her handling of it.

[Clovdyx]

I'm not sure I understand Zander's last post, but I like where his head at with this overall.  His point about Liz being able to use her history of misreading Penny as a means for a mislynch - something that Penny didn't necessarily seem too worried about? - makes to me, and I think Zander maybe could see her being more cautious if she'd been wrong in the past.

[Clovdyx]

Even if I don't think Zander plays that way himself 

[Clovdyx]

[v]Seph[/v]

 

YOLO.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

And you didnt have a problem with it as Ive mentioned before.

 

I dont see how you just brush that off, I mean her read was off of next to nothing imo.

 

I mean if you guys have a history of reading each other wrong, wouldnt you at least CONSIDER the possibility that it would be an easy push for Scum!Liz to make?

 

 

I don't see how you read this thread and reach the conclusion Penny just brushed it off.

 

 

Here's how:

 

 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm.

Scum!Lassie

 

Uh Liz let's not actual tunnel unless you think it's actually scum me.

 

 

Liz mentions her Scum read on Penneh.  Penneh just says dont tunnel unless you think Im a wolf.

 

 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm.

Scum!Lassie

 

Uh Liz let's not actual tunnel unless you think it's actually scum me.

 

 

The only way for me to actual tunnel is if I actually think it's scum you, though...

 

(hint: I do! :P)

 

(another hint: you have time to change my mind )

 

 

Honestly I don't want us to take it to you know that game level

 

 

Just mentions about last game level but still doesnt comment on the read itself.

 

 

 

[v]Darthe[/v] really don't like his progression in thread.

 

What about Liz snap reads especially irt you?

 

 

See my responses to her. I'm not going through our rollercoaster of not understanding each other this game.

 

 

Not understanding each other?  She's not even QUESTIONING the read itself.

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Darthe[/v] really don't like his progression in thread.

 

What about Liz snap reads especially irt you?

 

 

See my responses to her. I'm not going through our rollercoaster of not understanding each other this game.

 

 

I get not wanting to fight but if someone reads me Scum for something like that I would at least question them on it,

 

 

Tried that and it's how it begins

 

 

So she doesnt want to question her on it because of previous fights?

 

Shes just brushing the read itself off by talking about the previous game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm.

Scum!Lassie

Uh Liz let's not actual tunnel unless you think it's actually scum me.

 The only way for me to actual tunnel is if I actually think it's scum you, though... (hint: I do! :P) (another hint: you have time to change my mind )

 Honestly I don't want us to take it to you know that game level

Are you town?

Does this look like it? We haven't played together since the hobbit and I have improved a lot. It seems like your judging too quickly.

 

 

First time she really address it and says shes judging too quickly.

 

 

 

She just keeps talking about the last game.

 

Doesnt question her on it at all.

 

It reads to me like shes just trying to sweep it away and isnt trying to figure out where Liz is coming from with that read,

[Zander?]

What's your point?  I read people wrong all the time*.  That doesn't stop me from getting quick reads on them sometimes.  Sure, I try to give them some wiggle room so I can adjust as necessary, but it's not like Liz was exactly calling for Penny's head on a steak.

 

 

* it's a well documented fact Chris has never misread anyone in his life.  They just...don't flip the correct alignment sometimes

 

I see where youre coming from with Liz and I really havent liked any of Penny's responses at all.

 

My one problem with Liz was made worse by Penny stating that they tend to read each other wrong.

 

But much more concerning is Penny's subsequent reaction Liz's read then the read itself.

 

[v] Penny [/v]

[Zander?]

I'm not sure I understand Zander's last post, but I like where his head at with this overall.  His point about Liz being able to use her history of misreading Penny as a means for a mislynch - something that Penny didn't necessarily seem too worried about? - makes to me, and I think Zander maybe could see her being more cautious if she'd been wrong in the past.

 

What dont you understand brother?

 

Even if I don't think Zander plays that way himself 

 

???

[Sili Quirrels]

Yep. Celestes responses are confusing. I cant wrap my head around them.

[Darthe]

There's also maybe a very slight hint of TMI in her response, but I'm going to leave it alone in case I'm just conf-biasing myself at this point.

 

Or drinking too much Loopy

Its a better point than most atp. I don't remember how confident you usually are as a player ckov.

[Darthe]

 

I was speaking generally because it's something I always keep in mind. There is a slight chance for her to be either alignment and taking a stance for her calling me scum so quickly is just a big giant omgus if I don't think. Liz trying to solve me based on three posts is ridiculous and I didn't want to start it.

 

I really don't hate any of this. Bold is actually a pretty decent point.

Good post

[Darthe]

Seph votes confuse me. What y'all seeing?

 

Also mixed feelz on clov. I want to like him more than I actually do like him so far.

[Hallia]

Oh my gooooosh. So many posts. -.-

 

Parts are making my eyes glaze on mobile, but Celeste's response to pressure is one thing that stood out to me, read as kind of defensive

[Lizabeth]

I hate you all.

 

 Hi Chris! <3

 

Penny...IDK...just kind of overplayed it for me with her response to Liz calling her out.  I fully believe that that Penny would be annoyed if Liz was jumping down her throat early.  I know they've gotten into it a couple times in the past on PerC and just don't really work together.  So annoyance makes sense to me...but here, it just seems fake.

 

 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm. 

Scum!Lassie 

 

Uh Liz let's not actual tunnel unless you think it's actually scum me.

 

 

In a vacuum, sure.  I accept that.  But where is the tunnel?  This is EVERYTHING Liz had said about her to that point.

 

To be fair... did call her Scum!Lassie...

 

I'm catching up and seem to have lost the other quotes I multiquoted...sorry for the spam that's coming!

[Clovdyx]

 

There's also maybe a very slight hint of TMI in her response, but I'm going to leave it alone in case I'm just conf-biasing myself at this point.

 

Or drinking too much Loopy

Its a better point than most atp. I don't remember how confident you usually are as a player ckov.

Depends on what I'm given to work with. I'm an exceptionally good player, but if I have to spend all game pulling teeth to get people to towntell, I'm not going to feel great about my reads.

[Lizabeth]

i got a feeling ill end up sheeping clov today.

 

What if he's scum?

 

Oh, what I read Clov was "unless you think it's actually scum me."

 

 

 

 

 

 

If by contradiction, you mean the "unless you're mafia" caveat....it really doesn't make sense to me from any POV.  If I'm town, I don't think I would ever tell somebody to stop tunneling me unless they were mafia.  If I'm mafia, I already would know they're not and can accept their "tunnel" (or lack thereof, in this case) actually HAS merit so it wouldn't be a natural response for me at all.

 

I guess if someone knew the other person wasn't going to stop and wanted a reason to OMGUS...?

 

What celeste said was "unless you think it's actually scum me." Which I take to mean, do not tunnel me unless you have a reason to.

 

 

Yeah, but I still have trouble fitting that with either mindset.  If she's going to be that pissed about Liz tunneling her, does it really matter whether Liz believes Celeste is mafia?  And why would Celeste ever believe that Liz is going to deliberately tunnel her if she DIDN'T think she was mafia?

 

Actually, having read through this conversation, I think I know what she's getting at. In which case, lecture mode is coming on...

 

Once upon a time there was a game called True Love II on PerC. After determining that Lassie (aka penny aka celeste aka alette) was town, I decided to use her as bait for scum. However, that backfired because she became extremely paranoid and wouldn't take my hints (or what eventually had to turn into blatant reassurances) that I was not actually trying to get her lynched and she took the first chance she got to get me mislynched during that game.

 

There's other  history too, but we don't have to get into all of that...

 

The point is, that I can see where her statement about me "actually tunnelling her" only if I think she's scum could be her being sensitive and paranoid that I might try to use her that way again. In which case: Lassie - you're going to have to get over it. That's all I'm going to say on that. When you're playing mafia, stuff happens. You are going to get suspected for stuff and get called scum. My job is to try to figure out your alignment. Your job is to figure out mine. So you feeling hurt because I suspect you right out of the gates is not helpful if you're town.

 

If you want to know what I really thought when I made that statement: you pinged me wrong. Your catchup comments rang false to me, which is why I called you out. Was it enough for me to switch my vote for you? No. It was enough for me to want to see how you'd respond.

 

I will admit that this lecture is partially unfair because you didn't stay stuck on the issue, it was other people (like Zander...gonna get to that after I catch up some more) who were pushing you to fight me on it, so that's progress from the last time. But it annoys me, to be honest, that you're making this an issue at all. If you expect me to treat you with kid's gloves this game because of your reactions in the past, then no. That's not me doing my job.

 

If you're scum, then you should know that this type of emotional manipulation doesn't work on me. Either way I'm not going to stop poking if I feel something needs to be poked. So you're going to have to figure out how to deal with that.

 

(And I do love you which you know, so consider this to be a tough love lecture that hopefully can end right here :hug:)

[Lizabeth]

 

Penny...IDK...just kind of overplayed it for me with her response to Liz calling her out.  I fully believe that that Penny would be annoyed if Liz was jumping down her throat early.  I know they've gotten into it a couple times in the past on PerC and just don't really work together.  So annoyance makes sense to me...but here, it just seems fake.

 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm. 

Scum!Lassie 

 

Uh Liz let's not actual tunnel unless you think it's actually scum me.

 

 

In a vacuum, sure.  I accept that.  But where is the tunnel?  This is EVERYTHING Liz had said about her to that point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Liz[/v] 

 

Predictable 

 

i haven't the slightest bit of preconception for anyone's habits here so this is sure to prove a stimulating challenge  

 

Good! I'm not the only one!

 

Well...that's not entirely true.... *eyes Zander and Celeste suspiciously*

 

Oh yeah and Thane - hi Thane!

 

 

 

 

I'm at work so no lynching me

 

 

But that's the best time to lynch you? 

 

 

 

Emergash so many pages. Lainey slight town, Liz posting but no idea what to think of it, and Zander is a big wtf atm. 

Scum!Lassie 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not exactly what I'd call a tunnel, especially when you factor in how much attention she had put elsewhere prior to that.  If Liz had actually made any sort of effort to push Penny, or even insinuate she might be mafia, that's one thing.  But she didn't.

 

 

I was more worried about Liz's early snap scum read on Penny.

 

What are your thoughts on Liz?

 

You're saying you don't make snap reads?

 

And the part I wanted to follow up on was this: why were you calling out Penny for not addressing my scum read on her but not calling out Calder for not addressing my unexplained vote on him, even after I pointed out to you that he wasn't asking me any questions about it?