Ghostbusters Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Wins!

[Shad_]

Jesus Eldrick I saw blue at a glance and thought someone else was hard claiming.

[Shad_]

I should probably just not drink and mafia

[Shad_]

@Hallia 580

 

Zander becomes serious most games, but he was jokey/slow to get started in Chrono Trigger specifically, I can't remember all his mafia games, but I'm pretty sure he was slow in Belichick as well Spooooky was a different situation so I don't want to draw too much from that one. I won't say it's enough to draw a strong alignment from, but it's a positive start.

 

Dice was pretty direct, straight forward. I'd agree that he was defensive, because he was defending himself

WoW is the one that stands out to me because I read it so many times every wretched word is permanently etched into my brain, and as scum he jumped straight into the action without much joking around

 

I think it's more Z's a good enough player to not have a silly tell like that

[Shad_]

Zander seems genuinely frustrated which I associate more with town!Zander. I'm sort of surprised by how strongly the reaction was against him following Turin's claim, considering that it's all on out of thread stuff. Difficult to have much confidence in this read while he's under pressure though

Explain why this makes it less significant

[Eldrick4221]

I'm trying to determine if Zander realizing his push on Turin wasn't going anywhere is a good thing or not.

 

One of the big things Zander is known for is his tunnels, and if he is as convinced that Turin is scum as he appears to be, Town!Zander wouldn't let up. He would drive this all day.

[Eldrick4221]

I'm actually thinking he's scum because of that fact. That Turin caught him and he doesn't want to fight it, so he's trying to work an angle on someone else.

[Eldrick4221]

Which might spew RTE town if he's scum.

[Eldrick4221]

Official Vote Count - Day 1

 

Zander (4/7): Turin, Rey, RTE, Hallia

Alanna (1/7): Tsuki

Rey (2/7): Dice, Eldrick

RTE (1/7): Zander

Dice (1/7): Lenlo

 

 

Not voting

 

(4)- BFG, Niniel, Shad, Alanna

 

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to achieve a majority Lynch.

 

 

Day 1 deadline is set for Wednesday 14 April @ 9 PM BST

 

Day 1 Deadline Countdown

 

 

I´ll see if it works this time. Internet hasn´t worked at all where I am. Now I´m on my way to sleep. I´ll post tomorrow before work instead. Will take a look at RTE then. I unvoted because Lenlo asked me to before but I´ll revote.

 

[v] Zander [/v]

 

On the other hand, the 3 other people that are low on my list are also voting him.

[Zander?]

 

Hey guys. Apologies I only had time for a quick post yesterday, my parents made a surprise (!) visit down and the day (while absolutely lovely) kinda disappeared for me here. Re-reading and will post below.

 

 

ive been thinking him town  turin and ive obviously thought u scum  but that hardclaim changes things

 

 

lets say you are mafia   tactically this play makes a little sense but not much. say u get zander lynched  ok thats one townie down but if he flips town ure pretty much a dead man. not a great scum strategy really.

 

lets say ure town    that makes this something you believe for reasons you have given and probably some u havent.  if ure right then if we lynch znader we lynch scum. awesome. but ure probably dead again tonight or tomorrow night if mafia assume ure protected.

 

if ure BOTH town mafia are sitting in their QT laffing.

 

I simply want to work it out.

 

Dice has asked why I think his above post is illogical. He's appearing scummy to me partly because of the chop-logic he's been displaying. Zander's actions on the QT (as described by Turin) have been shady as hell, and the way they've been going at it, and so visibly, I highly highly doubt that they're both town. 

 

Bold above: what on earth does this mean? Yes, that's the way the game is played. Turin's role as a Neighbour has ceased to become effective now that the relationship between Zander and he has broken down. Town will go one for one, vanilla for scum. What was the point of this statement at all? Chop-logic.

 

Rey what was wrong with my vote on Tsuki? By the point I voted him in my catch up he had 2 votes and I added a third (though apparently I was fourth lol). He was legitimately scummy and I put my vote where I thought I'd find scum. I also hate that he claimed, regardless of RL. I don't like having PRs outted d1.

 

I think its just the timing and positioning of your vote on the train Alanna. I don't think you're scum at this point, but I am keeping an eye on you. I've liked the rest of your input thus far.

 

Looked over Rey's ISO. No idea why I had him as town.

 

 

 

 

 

Eldrick, that is poor reasoning to make someone a wolf. Basically that he is a good wolf. I disagree with the idea of you being willing to trust someone else to tell you he is town before you are even willing to consider it. 

 

It is very early still but I will look at Shad. 

 

 

D1  yolo wolf team of Dice, Zander and Tsuki.  

 

I like that Turin is making a concerted effort this early to point out potential scum teams. I also note that statistically speaking, at least one of either his himself or his yolo team is scum. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not a big fan of making observations claiming statistics without any other basing on it.

 

You can say the same thing about any group of players.

Equally, its as good a place to start as any. Its better actually, as it involved the people who had done the most talking at the time. There's always going to be at least one scum getting in early on the conversation, and there is always going to be another one who remains on the down-low. 

 

Solid post Rey, with one exception... I think saying "always" is a wrongful assumption. Typical, yes... but not always.

I stand corrected John. I can't guarantee its always the case, but then, this is a game that tends to follow certain rules. Typically is better than nothing. One of those four early big talkers (Turin/Zander/Dice/Tsukibana) is going to turn out scum. 

 

 

 

 

Here is where he talks about the statistics of someone being scum in a group of players. As I pointed out, the same can be said about any group of players. Noteworthy here is his group of "big talkers". He includes dice in this list, something I've never considered dice being, and then later on asks people about their read on him. 

 

Dice is actually in both groups of his statistics, but he doesn't mention this.

 

 

 

 

Turin's list included Dice. I "kept" Dice on the list because of the "Dice claims ghost" malarkey at the beginning of this game. I didn't think too hard about it, my focus was on Zander/Turin.

 

And I myself have already conceded above, as have others, that the same statistical reasoning could be used for any group of players. And I've explained my reasoning for it above. This isn't a point at all. 

 

And I don't consider Dice to have been the quiet group actually. At that point, Lenlo, BFG, RTE and Shad had posted less than he had.

 

But if you're the one saying you he was actually in both groups (early and quiet), why would my opinion on Dice remain suspicious? You've just strengthened my reason for him being suspicious. 

 

That, and Dice now changing his position on voting Zander or Turin to me suddenly isn't helping him appear consistent and logical (and I'm obviously not thrilled at being voted against).

 

 

 

Niniel, what's your opinion on Dice?

 

 

I'm buying Turin's claim at this point, and I'm buying his suspicions of Zander as being legitimate. I liked the way Turin took off at the start and got this game moving, and I've not liked Zander's meta-whatever play-style at all quite frankly. His rebuttals to Turin's claims look weak in my opinion. 

 

I'm also going to buy Tsukibana's claim at cop. Maybe not the best strategy to reveal at this point, but if real life is calling, I understand. I'm nicely interested in the people who jumped on my train against Tsukibana... Alanna in particular. I've got my eye on you. 

 

Dice is a mess. His post number #454 is illogical, and #460 is a little bit far-fetched.

 

My personal opinion is that if Zander flips scum, we take a look at Dice next.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Zander

 

 

 

He never states a read on Dice himself, but says that he will look at Dice if Zander flips scum.

Dice hasn't been coming across to me as playing like a townie, for the reasons I've stated above, and didn't come across well to me since the "Dice claims ghost, oh I don't want to answer that" episode. I asked both John McClane and Niniel to weigh in on Dice to get a wider range of views on him, as I would any other player I had suspicions of. I also wanted to get more of a feel on both McClane and Niniel parituclarly, who hadn't weighed in much at that point in time.

 

 

1 post for cause he was busy yesterday and just for today I guess?

 

Rey is starting to fall off of the map and its not a good look.

 

But more importantly, maybe Im reading it wrong but does the bold red read like TMI to anyone else?

[Zander?]

sorry broken quote

 

my bad

[Zander?]

posting to new page

[dicetosser1]

tb h i didnt understand his sentence zander

[Zander?]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/97808-ghostbusters-mafia-day-1/?p=3638450

 

Though not common people will lie as Town, our only disagreement is who thought Dice was Scum first.

 

Im Town and I Dont know for SURE Turin is Scum.  I think he is but my switch off of him when NO ONE else is voting him and everyone is thinking Im scummier comes down to the simple fact of self preservation. 

 

Why does that not make any sense to you as you state?

 

Im not just looking at Turin because theres obv more then 1 Scum and my job is to find one and build a case to make people see what Im seeing and try to prove to everyone Im Town.

 

Your. involvement level and content is weak, your 5 posts of over half of which are fluff, are general consenus thoughts and cover a very small focus area,

 

What are your reads on the others?

 

Why would Dice look bad when I flip Town?  You say Dice is null but a def scum lean for his stepping out?  Can you please explain.

 

Like you talk a bot about Dice Turin and myself but you leave out a lot of other players and those you mention are just cookie cutter reasons,

 

Elaborate some.

[Zander?]

I guess. But I feel that was rather early on in the life of this game. So i could accept that he was trying to get things going. Haven't seen anything I'd paint as scummy from him thus far.

 

 

I think he handled some early posts towards himself quite well and just has had a very level tone in all his posts, which is nice. Doesn't make him LOCK CLEAR or anything but he's not in my POE either.

 

Fill disclosure I can never remember what POE actually stands for but I'm fairly certain I'm still using it as intended

 

Which posts and how so?

 

Like you havent quoting anything and are just saying things.  Theres no real progression on any of your reads.

[Zander?]

Eldrick, what has you undecided about Zander? Not too long ago you stated you were switching to Rey in part ( I assume no small part since you phrased it that way ) to prevent a ninja hammer of zander. That doesn't really read as undecided but more like giving it time.

 

Feels disconnected to me. Worrisome.

 

You think someone reconsidering or re evaluating or thinking their reads is worrisome Turin?

 

 

Nice mindmeld Rey.

 

*lights cigars*

 

 

Zander, you still willing to vote Dice?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing him as a competing train.

 

Or possibly Eldrick.

 

If it comes down to him or me.  Still rather see you or RTE,  also wanna look at Rey a bit more.

 

Also still no real competing Train for me should be telling.  I mean I know Ive said this before but this is pretty basic stuff imo.

 

Why Eldrick?  What was your read on him before he started to think on me?  Were you sussing him previously?

[Zander?]

I am not opposed to a Dice competing train.

 

Youre starting to drop off Hallia....

 

What else do you have to say my dear?

 

 

I´ll see if it works this time. Internet hasn´t worked at all where I am. Now I´m on my way to sleep. I´ll post tomorrow before work instead. Will take a look at RTE then. I unvoted because Lenlo asked me to before but I´ll revote.

 

[v] Zander [/v]

 

Who else do you think is Scum beside me and why?

 

Other then the Neighbors stuff what about mine and Turin's game did you like and dislike?

 

It felt over defensive. Like flustered. When im town, ill defend myself sure, but im also gonna keep on casing and pushing people. Im not gonna direct all power to forward shields and pray they hold.

 

You were in last game with me, maybe thats how you do it but its not how I do it....not saying Dice is the same way but people react differently to that.

[Zander?]

Ugh, even writing this my opinions change a lot

 

Tsuki

 

Lenlo

Zander

Hallia

Shad

 

Turin

Dice

 

Niniel

Eldrick

Rey

RTE

Laine

 

 

 

Lenlo feels engaged particularly the discussion with Zander

 

Zander seems genuinely frustrated which I associate more with town!Zander. I'm sort of surprised by how strongly the reaction was against him following Turin's claim, considering that it's all on out of thread stuff. Difficult to have much confidence in this read while he's under pressure though

 

Shad's been digging in and seems to be ramping up, he's asking a lot of questions about Zander/Turin and doesn't seem predetermined to an answer but I don't recall a stance yet.

 

Feel good about Hallia, her read through feels pretty transparent,

 

I'm not feeling as confident about Turin as I'd like and probably want to think on it for a while. The early cases are null/townish for Turin. I think the thing that bugs me is how focused he's been on Dice/Zander, I'd expect a broader focus than this. Against that is the claim, and Turin has very much built it to him vs. Zander and I don't think that comes from mafia very often.

 

Dice is mixed, his vote on Turin just felt like town! Dice and some of his 'stubbornness' (that's not the word I'm looking for, but I can't think of a better one right now), but the Dice/John stuff was weird and I know he fools me tonewise when he's defending himself.

 

 

Remaining 5 is really just that I have least reason to think they're town.

 

I'm not sure I buy Laine's reaction to Tsuki's claim, but I could follow her catch up posts easily enough, she hasn't hit any of the town tells I trust for her yet. Don't remember much from RTE, Rey's pretty null, he seems to have dropped off, but that may just be due to the weekend, I liked his early tone/comfort level in thread, but I don't remember enough of his stances. I want to say that Niniel's level of engagement is good as is taking early stances, but I don't read her well early game. Eldrick's level of engagement is good at a surface level, but needs to be sustained before I'll trust it, need to ISO for specific stances.

 

I dont hate this list.

 

Obv Turin is lower for me and I have Nini and Eld a little higher.

 

Something worth noting is Lainey dropping off the map as well.  Really want to see more from her.

 

Remember the bold if I get mislynched please. 

[Zander?]

@ turin

 

 

did you openly use ure name in that QT?  please answer this

 

He did.

 

I would have mentioned if he didnt cause its a big part of his reasoning for pushing me,

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Hey guys. Apologies I only had time for a quick post yesterday, my parents made a surprise (!) visit down and the day (while absolutely lovely) kinda disappeared for me here. Re-reading and will post below.

 

 

 

ive been thinking him town  turin and ive obviously thought u scum  but that hardclaim changes things

 

 

lets say you are mafia   tactically this play makes a little sense but not much. say u get zander lynched  ok thats one townie down but if he flips town ure pretty much a dead man. not a great scum strategy really.

 

lets say ure town    that makes this something you believe for reasons you have given and probably some u havent.  if ure right then if we lynch znader we lynch scum. awesome. but ure probably dead again tonight or tomorrow night if mafia assume ure protected.

 

if ure BOTH town mafia are sitting in their QT laffing.

 

I simply want to work it out.

 

Dice has asked why I think his above post is illogical. He's appearing scummy to me partly because of the chop-logic he's been displaying. Zander's actions on the QT (as described by Turin) have been shady as hell, and the way they've been going at it, and so visibly, I highly highly doubt that they're both town. 

 

Bold above: what on earth does this mean? Yes, that's the way the game is played. Turin's role as a Neighbour has ceased to become effective now that the relationship between Zander and he has broken down. Town will go one for one, vanilla for scum. What was the point of this statement at all? Chop-logic.

 

1 post for cause he was busy yesterday and just for today I guess?

 

Rey is starting to fall off of the map and its not a good look.

 

But more importantly, maybe Im reading it wrong but does the bold red read like TMI to anyone else?

 

 

Cut down to relevant parts.

 

You are referencing the red underlined portion, calling it TMI. Read dice's quote he's referencing. He's talking about the bolded section, that is the conditional situation where one of you is scum.

[Eldrick4221]

 

@ turin

 

 

did you openly use ure name in that QT?  please answer this

 

He did.

 

I would have mentioned if he didnt cause its a big part of his reasoning for pushing me,

 

I assumed as much.

[Eldrick4221]

Ok caught up.

 

Two things strike me the most.

 

First Dice changing from we need to resolve Turin and Zander today to moving off both of them entirely. I believe Turin is town. If Zander was to flip town I would take a hard look at Dice next (and that answers your question about that that you've asked everyone).

 

Second, nothing Zander has done has given me reason to think he's town. His insistence to discredit QT content is just plain and simply not a town stance. He's been defensive more than reasonable. Finally I just don't understand him moving off Turin, regardless if it's to me or not. I don't buy that he's doing it because he doesn't see a Turin lynch happening when most of the rest of the game is trying to resolve their roles and alignment. How he doesn't see Turin as a viable lynch is beyond me, and especially if he is so adamant that he is scum, with extra information to go on based on a QT as well. That he attempts to start a new train entirely when his reasoning is that the Turin lynch won't happen and he ll do anything to stay alive doesn't make sense either. Then you'd think he'd have placed his vote on the second largest train, assuming he is a townie who would rather risk anyone else dying but himself. So to me he isn't doing what would make the most sense to save himself, when IIRC that was his reasoning for moving off Turin.

 

Lenlo has been posting well and I agree with most of what he's said. He's solid town for me right now. Dice is still null but definite scum lean for his stepping out of the Turin Zander voting. Hallia's posts don't look out of place and I had John as my strongest town read. Townie vibes for eldrick and shad. One thing I'm not following is the case on Rey. I'd like to see some new stuff from him but liked his past posts. I guess I had a really good feel about the tone of his posts but perhaps that in itself isn't enough at this point. That being said I'm not one to comment on contributing at this point.

 

This caught my attention the first time around, but I forgot to bring it up.

 

I've always been under the impression that while townies obviously don't want to be lynched, they work for the greater good of catching scum, and aren't as worried about their own death as mafia would be. Mafia have low numbers by basic design, so they are more concerned with staying alive.

 

The way you word this makes me think you think townies consider their own death a risky move. It becomes more and more so if we start losing townies, but I wouldn't consider it one right now.

[Lenlo]

My problem with your turin case Z is its only got one point, that he lied about who posted first on Dice. Thats it as far as I can remember. Where as my problem with you is the secrecy, how the QT was treated and your reactions since.

 

 

It felt over defensive. Like flustered. When im town, ill defend myself sure, but im also gonna keep on casing and pushing people. Im not gonna direct all power to forward shields and pray they hold.

 

You were in last game with me, maybe thats how you do it but its not how I do it....not saying Dice is the same way but people react differently to that.

 

This wasnt addressed to you, so I dont really see why your answering for it? and its entirely possible im wrong, because I havnt had any real case pressure in afew months cause I havnt rolled wolf and have town-telled alright recently.

 

Im really torn on this. On one hand, I trust Turin more then Zander at this point. On the other ive lynched/pushed Zander D1 when he was town alot. I think im gonna [v]Dice[/v] and see how the Turin/Zander situation pans out. See what NAs so, that sort of thing.

[Reyoru]

1 post for cause he was busy yesterday and just for today I guess?

 

Rey is starting to fall off of the map and its not a good look.

 

But more importantly, maybe Im reading it wrong but does the bold red read like TMI to anyone else?

Yes, I was busy Saturday and posted less over the weekend. I'm obviously "dropping off". And my "dropping off" is still contributing more than a number of players. Where were you on Saturday for that matter?

 

And the red-bold is TMI? Really strong argument there, you've convinced me. 

[Eldrick4221]

Lenlo...

 

You were already voting him.

[alannalynn]

I'll be around tomorrow.