[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

[Turin Turambar]

More agro Zander. Not really a good look. Maybe Sooh is right. 

 

I'll give my whole list in a while I wanna check something first. Right now top of my head WTL is Nolder, Eldrick, Thane, Zander, Alanna, Pral. Not really in any order at present. I will review and sort.

[BFG]

Got to run

[BFG]

More agro Zander. Not really a good look. Maybe Sooh is right. 

 

I'll give my whole list in a while I wanna check something first. Right now top of my head WTL is Nolder, Eldrick, Thane, Zander, Alanna, Pral. Not really in any order at present. I will review and sort.

Can you explain?

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

Zander I think you and I need to have a talk.

 

 

Ok whats up?

 

Not much, I just like to clear or condemn you early and I'd like to be able to do it soon.

 

Let's try some questions...

 

Gun to head which one person of the following people would you absolutely not let into the village right now: Sooh, Pral, Alanna, Thane, Eldrick.

 

 

Why these people specifically?

 

 

 

Nolder that's a terrible question when he's already mentioned scum reads on 2/5 and has null-town the rest lol

 

it is but its ok.  I wanna see where he goes with this.

 

 

@Nol- Why Pral?

 

Sorry everyone woke up and is talking to me now.

The thing about Pral, and I don't mean to be insulting, even when he's town I don't find his posts that helpful or insightful 90% of the time.

He's just kind of there. So that's more meta than anything else but that's why I chose him.

 

That's a terrible reason.

 

+1 on it being a terrible reason. you don't find him helpful as town, so you want to lynch him for not being helpful.

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

 

 

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Hehee sorry Zander. Wanna talk? If I spam enough and get ahead of you, you wont be post leader and we can talk?

 

Eldrick4221  74
Zander  62

 

I cant exceed the PC leader.

 

So we can talk a bit.

 

Tell me what are your current thoughts?

 

 

Want me to give you some breathing room?

[Eldrick4221]

Cuz I can.

[Eldrick4221]

You're welcome :D

[BFG]

Laine can you explain your current position on Lily?

[Eldrick4221]

I have a lot of null reads, but that's ok for Day 1. It will sort itself out in time.

 

 

Eldrick - I know I'm town

Laine - I can't think of a gae where I didn't townread her. I was fooled last game, but those were very unique circumstances. I  knew she started out as town, and her tone didn't change because of riding the cop claim. I don't expect recruits in a basic game, so I'm confident giving her a town read this game.

BFG - I don't know what to look for in her scum game, but I have liked her play so far. Town lean.

Lily - Slight town. As I mentioned before, I didn't have an issue with her vote changes, like other people seemed to have. I haven't seen anything scummy from her.

Turin - Has an issue with him early on, but it was because I misread what he was doing. He hasn't done anything to catch my attention since. Null to slight town.

 

Pral - I'm not convinced of his towniness yet, but I am not voting for him for a while this game. He gets mislynched early on way too often, and I won't be a part of that this game.

Thane - Lots of joke posts, but IIRC that's normal for him, so null in that regard. Would like to see more game content from him, though. Null.

BG OGclef - Don't know him. People I don't know stay in null until I have a reason otherwise.

Zander  - Z has been different this game. I don't know how much of it is due to trying to change his playstyle and his being mentored. I'm not calling it scummy yet, but he's definitely not towning it up this time.

Sooh - She's been a topic of discussion for a lot of people. She has somehow slipped under my radar. I need to go back and ISO her. Not lynching her today because being sick sucks, and I want to give her a chance to show her towniness if she's town.

Nyn - As I mentioned earlier, I don't remember her interactions. Also someone I need to go ISO. Null

 

Nolder - He has recently moved down for me. I don't like his reasoning for voting Pral. His question to Zander was weird.

[Eldrick4221]

Nulls aren't sorted in any particular order.

[BFG]

[v]Thane[/v]

 

Fluff/content ratio more likely from mafia!Thane

 

Busy at work today so won't be around till lunch

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

Is it just me or do you always find me suspicious Turin? Lol oh well. I'm sorry I didn't turn back up yesterday, I got caught up in homework. I'll definitely dig into this after classes are over today. Pretty great there are only 16 pages but I kinda miss Zander's excitability lol

This is first Alanna created ping to me. these sort of posts read as trying to dismiss my future read as "something that always happens". discrediting the reads without refuting them. Seeing similar response from Z as well. Alanna doing it with yuks, Z with curtness.
 

Okay I'm going back to the beginning and starting from there. I haven't really had the chance to get into this game yet, so here I am. I probably wont be here all day though because I have to get some homework done at some point lol.... So, I'm completely caught up in one class, and completely behind in two others. I don't know how this happens???
 
Fwiw I have a peek on Shad:

???

#17 Still feels like a serious post from Zander on a reread and I don't exactly like the push but I like the content it has generated so I'm not going to let this post bother me too much moving forward.

#32 from Eldrick feels over reactiony to Turin's vote on him. This was literally 2 pages in and Eldrick is jumpy about a vote that just as likely could have been a joke.

Thane very laid back and relaxed p2-3, townie ish vibe but not enough yet. Liking Turin thus far too. Eldrick's spammy posts are making up for the lack of Zanders right now

#111 Gonna agree with Zander irt to Eldrick here, he is feeling a little forced, but I'm also noticing a lot of off content posts that are outweighing his content ones so far

#133 @Lily re: Zander/Alanna distancing: LOL we don't distance. We plop ourselves right beside each other as scum and color the other one blue in our reads list.

#141 I do agree with Sooh on the over explanation of Zander's original post insofar as that is what made it NOT feel like a joke to me and why it came off forced. At the same time, I refuse to scum read Zander for it because he's settling into a new style and I don't want to misread new!Z as scum!Z.
 

#157 I want Thane's thoughts instead of his comments, he's trending down from my original read but not out of the town leans yet
 
Right now I would probably put Zander, BFG, Turin, Thane at a slight town lean, Thane having the lowest lean. I would also have Eldrick, Lily, Nolder with scummy leans. Lily and Eldrick for what was mentioned above and Nolder for ~raisions. Sooh also a little pingy but I haven't quite placed why yet.

#194-195 Turin touches on some Nolder ~raisions. Dude's confusing me.

 first thing in a long "content" post is a joke. Happy happy. I'm town cause I'm being funny.
 
Says Z post reads serious and doesn't like it but gonna let it slide.
I never voted Eldrick (I would though) I voted Thane because I could see Eldrick's vote on Thane as a potential slip. I haven't liked Thane's contribution at all the entire game and I don't see how you and Z both have him so high. How many posts were there when you made that call? feels weird to me.
Eldrick spammy but forced? 
 
Bold/Underlined: See below
 
More about Z posting making it hard to see that post as a joke. But still not willing to make the leap to thinking him mafia.
Thane dropping but still town? Why?
4 "slight town reads" Still don't understand why Z and Thane are so high.
I am confusing you. Yet you have Nolder as a mafia lean. Sooh is pingy for unknown reasons. I think it might be for looking hard at Z. Maybe that's just me too.

 

 

She was actually backing up Nolder, who brought it up initially. Zander's post seemed serious... once he said it was a joke, I didn't see a problem with Lily unvoting and moving to someone who she felt was taking advantage of the misunderstanding.

 

 Question: Why do you just say "okay. It didn't read as a joke but since you say it was it must be"? People do lie in this game.
 

Probably lookin something like this:
 
Alanna
Zander
BFG
Turin
Thane
bgrishinko
Pralaya
Nyn
Lily
Nolder
Sooh
Eldrick
 
If you want explanations, I'm just going to YOLO really quick. I've explained my thoughts on Zander, even with his changes I believe he is town, but I probably wouldn't lynch him today regardless because I want more of a sample from him. Anyways, he's town slotted. BFG is feeling more BFG than in Clov's game, which is a strange thing to say but I wasn't really reading her as town last game and here I am feeling a lot better about her. Turin has been providing thoughts and I've mostly liked what he's had to say, I've also enjoyed his pushes and the reasoning behind them. Thane is skating by on his early excitement, but I want MOAR to get a stronger read either way. BG would be my weakest town read since it's based purely on gut at this point, so we'll see what happens there as well. Of course Pralaya is purely null- I don't see any extra activity from him even with a smaller page count so I'd really like for him to get in here and give us his thoughts. Nyn is null for me as well, there are some things I'm looking for from her which I haven't seen so I don't feel comfortable calling her town. Lily is there for her vote thing, Nolder for his, and an overall weirdness. Plus Nolder is pinging for trying to buddy me and an overall gut-scum feeling. Sooh is all over the place and it's frustrating because I don't know what is due to sickness or what could be scummy, so I'll wait for her to improve. She definitely doesn't feel like town!Sooh at this point. Eldrick is different from his normal weird and not in a good way. I agree that some of his posts feel forced and he seems to be posting more jokes than content at this point when I would prefer the opposite especially when some are making an extra effort to tone it down.

 Please make your thoughts on Zander into one concise post. Earlier you mentioned that as mafia teammates you just "town read each other as that is what you are expected to do."  You have noted some things that you thought were odd but you decided not to mafia read him for because he is adjusting his game with Cory's help. It seems like if there are things that should be concerning you that you shouldn't have him as your top town. Maybe it is just me. 
 
Why does Nolder being weird equate to him being mafia? can you give examples of this weirdness?
 

 

 

#117 and #120 from Lily are really pinging me. I understand the explanation on 117, she wasn't caught up yet, but the switch to voting me in post 120 is awful. Also, who is my "scummate" that you're referring to in this post, @Lily? The only people involved in this were me, Zander, and his comments on Lily/Eldrick. If you're saying I'm teammates with Zander, that's just weird that you just came off voting Zander to voting me when you literally just backed out of your suspicion of Zander because your responses were behind.
#131 @Lily Sooh's agreement came after my post, so how was I pushing any case of her's?

#133 @Lily re: Zander/Alanna distancing: LOL we don't distance. We plop ourselves right beside each other as scum and color the other one blue in our reads list.

 
 
#120 - I was saying that you were pushing Zander's case on me
 
#133 - How do I know that to be true? I don't. So, I'll stick with my reads, tyvm. 
 
Also, my meta, regardless of alignment is to start out slow and ramp up later.

 

#120 there was a case on you that I was pushing? I said you looked better than Eldrick in those original posts until 120 and I decided I didn't like what you were doing
 
#133 Meta, probably not going to change any time soon. Zander and I scum reading each other is cause for concern about one of us but not both but I know you haven't been playing with us to notice so I'm not really bothered

 

 This last line is more of the "brush off" that I am getting from Z as well. You are not bothered because you don't think that Lily can lead a lynch on you is really how it reads and you just want to make the thoughts go away. BTW, since you know that Zander is trying to change things up, how can you even use previous meta on him? he is in process of changing said meta. Better to treat him like he is new and shiny.
 

I think if I were to underestimate anyone in this game it would be BG purely because I don't have meta on him and don't really know what to expect, so I could be flat out misreading him as town right now, but that's something I'll have to think about later after some flips.
 
I do see a change in Turin a little bit, I feel like he's more solid this game and that's a good thing(?), so I'm looking forward to seeing more from him.
 
Pralaya is silent per usual.
 
Nolder is pinging in that way that he pings when he is mafia but I'm going to give him some space and see what he does first.

My posting is entirely dependent on my availability. I have had more time as I am not working presently and have been sick so sitting on sofa. 

Again examples of what has pinged you on Nolder.

 

 

 

Upon reread, Alanna not looking good at all. Can definitely see potential for w/w with Zander based on her own statement of their meta together.  Both having Thane so high for so little reason is also consistent with Cory mafia strategy. Just keep saying he is town.  Willing to vote any of the three.

 

 

 

 

[Eldrick4221]

I find it interesting that you are questioning her reasons to want to vote Nolder, being you are currently voting him yourself.

[BFG]

Turin I'm probably going to lock you in as town for a while XD

[Turin Turambar]

1. Turin: Town by PM
2. Zander-mafia (soft claimed one of the brothers) Soft claiming is bad to me. most likely mafia driven in this case. Has felt like posts edgy like he is chafing at not being allowed to use his smo of posting his way to town read. I don't think the early post was a joke. I don't like his responses to my calling him on his soft claim. 
3. Sooh-null to town: This is in part due to my thoughts on Z/Laine.

4. Nolder-null to mafia. I'm going back and forth about who is more likely mafia. Nolder may just be being weird here. I think I'm going to let him off today.
5. Laine-mafia. See thoughts in above post.
6. Nyn- null to town. Not too much content. understandable due to RL. (I hope your dog is getting better) Nothing really pinging at this time.
7. Pral- null to mafia. Not much content but I don't like the one real post where he called out 5 players and said there must be one baddie in there. looks like trying to be useful while not really being useful.
8. Eldrick- mafia lean. Early Thane thing not good to me. some other things that I can't  recall all of right now. 
9. Lily- null. Lily being maleable is kind of how I remember her. Add in some RL distraction and I don't have any real read on her at this time.
10. Thane- mafia. I see all sorts of interaction between him and others I am suspicious of. Z and Laine have him as too high on their lists IMO. Eldrick may have spewed him maf. Plus his reaction to Eldrick and then my vote on him feels a bit of the same "don't engage and hope it goes away" that mafia will use on early votes. My only real concern is that it may be a case of mafia leaving him for a later mislynch. 

 

11. BGrishinko- null to town. Not much to see here so far. Call it a gut read.
12. BFG-  Town. Like her stances. Like her posts. 

 

Obviously I have too many mafia/leans. my difficulty is that I am seeing two distinct possibilities. Z/Laine is something weird to me. Z mostly for tone. His posts feel snippy. Laine for her determination to not allow herself to read Z as mafia despite the things that she says regarding his early "joke". Both of them having Thane too high makes me curious there as well. The other has been Eldrick along with Pral and Nolder?/Thane?. I noted that Eldrick said something to the effect that he wants to see Pral in action. Then that he wants to give him more time. There is no real reasoning there to justify the position tho.

 

Unvote

 

Votre: Zander

 

 

willing to vote Alanna, Thane, Eldrick, Nolder, Pral in that order  

[Turin Turambar]

I find it interesting that you are questioning her reasons to want to vote Nolder, being you are currently voting him yourself.

Read what I posted about her. She said Nolder was pinging for reasons he does as mafia but

1.) didn't explain what they were.

2.) doesn't really seem to be trying to dig into him.

 

I am moving my vote because I think I have something better at this time.

[Turin Turambar]

And it is now nap time. Stupid English cold.

[Eldrick4221]

I gave my reason for Pral. He gets mislynched early frequently. If he's mafia, we can still lynch him later.

[Eldrick4221]

Your reads on Laine and Zander seem to be tied to each other. If one of them flips town, how do you feel about the other one?

[Eldrick4221]

1. Turin: Town by PM

2. Zander-mafia (soft claimed one of the brothers) Soft claiming is bad to me. most likely mafia driven in this case. Has felt like posts edgy like he is chafing at not being allowed to use his smo of posting his way to town read. I don't think the early post was a joke. I don't like his responses to my calling him on his soft claim. 

3. Sooh-null to town: This is in part due to my thoughts on Z/Laine.

4. Nolder-null to mafia. I'm going back and forth about who is more likely mafia. Nolder may just be being weird here. I think I'm going to let him off today.

5. Laine-mafia. See thoughts in above post.

6. Nyn- null to town. Not too much content. understandable due to RL. (I hope your dog is getting better) Nothing really pinging at this time.

7. Pral- null to mafia. Not much content but I don't like the one real post where he called out 5 players and said there must be one baddie in there. looks like trying to be useful while not really being useful.

8. Eldrick- mafia lean. Early Thane thing not good to me. some other things that I can't  recall all of right now. 

9. Lily- null. Lily being maleable is kind of how I remember her. Add in some RL distraction and I don't have any real read on her at this time.

10. Thane- mafia. I see all sorts of interaction between him and others I am suspicious of. Z and Laine have him as too high on their lists IMO. Eldrick may have spewed him maf. Plus his reaction to Eldrick and then my vote on him feels a bit of the same "don't engage and hope it goes away" that mafia will use on early votes. My only real concern is that it may be a case of mafia leaving him for a later mislynch. 

 

11. BGrishinko- null to town. Not much to see here so far. Call it a gut read.

12. BFG-  Town. Like her stances. Like her posts. 

 

Obviously I have too many mafia/leans. my difficulty is that I am seeing two distinct possibilities. Z/Laine is something weird to me. Z mostly for tone. His posts feel snippy. Laine for her determination to not allow herself to read Z as mafia despite the things that she says regarding his early "joke". Both of them having Thane too high makes me curious there as well. The other has been Eldrick along with Pral and Nolder?/Thane?. I noted that Eldrick said something to the effect that he wants to see Pral in action. Then that he wants to give him more time. There is no real reasoning there to justify the position tho.

 

Unvote

 

Votre: Zander

 

 

willing to vote Alanna, Thane, Eldrick, Nolder, Pral in that order  

 

Ordered Turin's read list for easy comparison. bottom six ordered by WTV list provided.

 

 

Town

Turin

Null to town

Sooh

Nyn

Null

Lily

Null to Mafia

Pral

Nolder

Mafia Lean

Eldrick

Mafia

Thane

Laine

Zander

 

 

[Nynaeve]

Nyn - agreed that it would take a ballsy mafia to change play style, BUT everyone knew coming into this game that Zander was changing his play style, so changing it should be null. He's also been identified early as mafia in his last game and is absolutely good enough to change in response.

 

Here's the thing. On a normal day? I have a hard time reading Zander. I've mislynched him as town. And I wrongly cleared him as town in one of the mafia games I half spectated (not sure if I actually played with him when he was scum... but if I did? I definitely didn't catch him). So I own up to the fact that I need to try better. Which means I attempt to look pretty much at everything he does. Because just looking at content, with him, is not enough. Ftr, his content this game seems fine to me so far. He's been concise and making good points. So on that front, it's all good. But like I said... he has fooled me before.

 

Now, I realize that he made some promises about changing his style. But changing his style could range from something as mild as simply toning down the post count and maybe trying to tunnel less, vs something as dramatic as wearing a Cory suit and adopting his fashion style and charming personality. I feel like he went to the extreme end of the spectrum. I understand that you think he's ballsy enough to do that. And maybe he is. But my opinion is.... and I'm talking generally here, not specifically about Zander.... that someone who plays without caring how he's perceived is more likely to be town than scum. I have known a select few players that adopt the "IN YOUR FACE" play as scum. But most players would find that to be too mind numbingly exhausting when it's simply a lot easier NOT to stand out and put yourself under everyone's scrutiny right off the bat. 

 

I'm not sure if I'm conveying my point properly, but the above is what was going through my head, basically. And I can understand why you might disagree. That's fine. Maybe I've overthinking it. But regardless, even if I worked on content alone? Zander wouldn't be on my WTL atm.

[Nynaeve]

Im am 100% ballsy enough to try any approach but I pretty much adhere to the KISS rule of thumb fwiw.

 

What's the KISS rule of thumb?

[Nynaeve]

There was one thing about Nyn earlier that caught me off guard when she didn't push me when I snarked back, but that's probably nothing, potentially something. I'm not going to say it's a ping but I know she likes to prod at me until I react and by not doing that is something I want to keep in mind irt her ability to read me without making me yell at her.

 

I knew you secretly liked it.  

[Nynaeve]

I liked your read list post and some of you catch up posts. That will do for the time being. Snark tomorrow?

 

[Nynaeve]

I actually would like to hear from NYN irt Nolder, since she saw the same things I saw in Rustlemania, I wanna know if she's feeling the same thing here. What are YOUR thoughts on Nolder, in summary?

 

Nolder likes to pull the confused act when he's scum. Tends to ask obtuse questions just to have something to talk about.

 

These string of posts pretty much articulates that:

 

 

Can you expand on what you're seeing connects Pral to myself and Lily? I'm not understanding that.

 

What?

 

Explain the blue and red for me please because I am not understanding.

Am I with Lily or am I with Alanna and Pral?

 

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

Ok ok I get it

 

YOU think I'm with Pral and Alanna

 

but you think PRAL should have had me with Lily based on what he said

 

I see where I was getting confused now sorry.

 

Oh, well I misunderstood then.

 

I'm willing to unvote for now as well then.

Seems like a case of bad communication all around.

 

[unvote]

 

 

Just comes across like it's very important for all of us to know that Nolder is confused. 

 

 

 

Beyond the above he doesn't have much in the sense of content. 

 

He has this post: 

 

 

You know...maybe Alanna was right about Eldrick being awkward or off.

I'm starting to get that feeling as well. I'm not sure if it's the way he puts things or that he's usually so agreeable or what but it doesn't feel right.

I don't remember feeling this way about him in past games ftr.

 

Which sounds fake to me and has him basically following you (ie Laine) irt Eldrick.

 

 

Then there's him asking Zander who he wouldn't include in his town core and him naming Pral when asked cause he doesn't particularly like Pral's contribution to scumhunting in games. First of all, that's a terrible reason to pick Pral after 20+ pages of content. It's ironic because Nolder hasn't contributed any substance to the game either so... lol? And thirdly, I'm surprised he didn't pick Eldrick after the post above. A content based FoS is always better than a policy based one. Especially when the policy based one is complete BS.

 

 

I could definitely vote here today. But I want to finish some more ISOs before deciding. Glad the deadline got a bit extended to allow for that. =)