[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

[csarmi]

 

This game sucks already.

 

?

Check the game title.

[Lenlo]

 

 

This game sucks already.

?

Check the game title.

 

Ooooooo u 2 clever 4 me

[Clovdyx]

Vote count:

 

• Zander - 5 - Lenlo, Sooh, Eldrick, Csarmi, Hallia
• Lenlo - 1 - Zander
• Alannalynn - 1 - Nolder
• Eldrick - 1 - Shad

Day Zero ends at 5:00 PM Eastern time

 

 

[csarmi]

 

Hi Zander, what do you think about Laine's vote/unvote?

It's been noted. I was under the impression Zander was going down N0. That's why the petition got attention. If he flips scum, I am looking at her for backing off.

Wait what?

[Lenlo]

Weeeeeelp... G'night. See you people tomorrow. Alanna, dont be to mad with me when you catch up ok? It was for a good cause.

[csarmi]

Page 6.

Zander still wolf.

Sweet.

[Nolder]

Back now. 

I think I was feeling bad due to too much caffeine from soda and dehydration...from soda.

 

Also I see Alanna hasn't voted yet so I'm assuming she's still mad about the fact there's so many pages and it would still be a mercy to end it for her now so I'll keep my vote where it is.

[Shad_]

Maybe the only time I ISO someone and take notes all game. Hey, 23 pages, I can still do that without killing myself!

Eldrick:

 

 

#76 you vote Zander

#93 you say you thought the plan to auto-lynch Zander N0 was serious. Upon being asked what you thought of Laine's unvote, you say you'll suss her for backing off if Z flips scum.

#101 Zander's opening claim is null iyo

#110 Asked what if Z flips town, you say we'll "learn something from how people acted about it" and you won't suss Laine for unvoting.

#116 Questioned about #101, reiterates that it's null, mentions that 3p could have also received purple text.

#120 Says he is no longer voting Zander as a joke. ~~But in #93 you suggested that you had taken it seriously from the get-go.~~ He is now voting Zander because he thinks that, if Zander is scum, Laine's unvote implicates her as scum as well.

#125 Questioned about #116, again reiterates that it's null.

#129 Reiterates that Laine would not look scummy if Zander flips town because the flip would nullify his concern that she unvoted to protect a team mate. Mentions that if Laine is scum but not Zander's team mate, she would have no way of knowing whether Zander is town or simply some other faction not aligned with her. Says that if Zander isn't scum Laine is probably not scum either, because scum wouldn't unvote.

#162 Says that players tend to forget that not all games are just a single scum faction against town, but there could be other factions, so scum!Laine wouldn't know Zander is town just because she's not aligned with him. ~~This sort of internal disconnect is part of what makes Eldrick difficult to read. I believe he could make this statement as town.

#252 Explains that his initial vote was not "serious" but that with a 24 hour time limit any option is as good as the next. Laine's unvote, however, means that we can potentially learn something from Zander's lynch in particular. ~~Again, the disconnect is probably more null than it appears.

#256 95% certain that there are more than two alignments in this game.

#275 Glad to be town, feels good about Lenlo

#278 Explains that Zander should be lynched rather than Laine because the scumminess of her unvote is conditional upon Zander being scum.

#284 Hasn't found anyone, to include Zander, scummy yet, but wants to resolve his concern about Zander/Laine w/w.

#288 Says if Zander flips town, well, we were likely to mislynch anyway, and if he flips scum then we have a lead on Laine, so Zander is the way to go today.

#292 Likes Zander's attitude, says he's valuable as town and doesn't want to lose that, but he doesn't think Lenlo is scum. Asks Zander if he can convince him to unvote. ~~At this point Eldrick is pushing for a lynch on one of the only two players in the game he has said something positive about.

#310 Restates his question when Zander doesn't answer, thinks Lenlo is town, calls Zander defensive. Asks him to defend himself/say who he thinks is scum besides Lenlo.

#318 Calls out the OMGUS when Zander names Lenlo and BFG.

#328 irt BFG, uses "pushing" in a weird way: "her questioning could easily be seen as pushing. Trying to figure you out. Looking for a reason for you to be town or scum." ~~Not sure if he's saying either/or (null) or suggesting he thinks she's towns. Asks Zander for his opinion on why he should vote her.

#335 Says he fully intended to vote Zander coming into this game regardless of who else did, but most votes on Z have solidified for other reasons atp.

#343 Says Lenlo has given a reason to vote Zander (his case), BFG has given a reason to vote Zander (he feels more calculated than a towny ought to), he has his own reason for his vote (Laine's unvote).

#349 irt 328, says he thought BFG was questioning Zander with the intent to push him. ~~This says absolutely nothing about how he interprets BFG's intentions.

#360 Zander calls Eldrick out for fence sitting in #349 ~~rightly so~~ Eldrick doesn't get it. "Whether I think bfg is pushing you or not? Why does that matter? Who pushes who changes all game."

#365 Doesn't think Zander is scummy. Calls him null and really hopes he's own, wishes he had a reason to vote someone else. Reiterates that he's voting Zander because Laine unvoted him. Acknowledges that it's a weak reason.

 

 

 

Eldrick, you're a curious cat for me because I think we often draw drastically different conclusions from the same situation as either alignment.  I'm not sure how to distinguish scum!Eldrick flat out lying from town!Eldrick pursuing a course of action which simply makes no sense to me.  Help me out here.

 

Your game, as I see it, has consisted of voting Zander because he was "supposed" to be the D0 lynch, then strengthening your vote when BFG asked you what you thought about Laine unvoting based on the assumption that she would do this as scum if Zander was her team mate, then proceeding to repeatedly claim you really don't want to lose Zander if he's town but he's going to have to present a better option to you.  He suggested Lenlo, you said no, you think Lenlo is town.  He presented BFG, you shot that down with a seemingly null interpretation of her actions so far.

 

In #129, you suggest that scum!Laine would want to lynch town!Zander, so scum!Laine would not unvote if Zander is town, whereas scum!Laine would want to protect scum!Zander, so scum!Laine would unvote if Zander is scum.  Therefore Laine is likely to be town if Zander is town and scum if Zander is scum.  Do you think that town!Laine is less likely to unvote Zander if Zander is scum?

 

How do you normally hunt scum?  Explain to me, if you could, the approach you typically take to determine who you ought to lynch.  Do you think that my decision to unvote Zander and vote you instead has implications for me if Zander flips scum?

 

In #120, you characterized your initial vote as a joke, however you have also stated that any lynch is as good as the next due to our time restrictions, and you seemed to suggest in #93 that lynching Zander was quite serious.  Was it serious or a joke?  If it was a joke, what about Laine's unvote strikes you as more likely to be a protective move than simply an act of moving on from the joke?

 

While you have not explicitly called Zander town, you have pointed to things he's done which you have liked, and you have suggested that he is null at worst.  You have suggested that it is up to him to show you a better lynch candidate if you want him to unvote you.  If you saw another player take your current stance, would it bother you?

[Shad_]

Eldrick, you managed to convince me that you were town after a rocky start once before.  24 hours is a woefully short timeframe to determine a lynch, and I'll be limited to my cellphone tomorrow, but I am very willing to drop my vote on you if I think your answers make sense to my understanding of your town game.  I do not have the time or energy to research you on my own, however, so if you are town please try to put some careful thought into this.

[Shad_]

Aaaaand sleep.

[Shad_]

*if he wants you to unvote him

[Sooh]

Ugh really? I go to sleep at midnight and wake up 9 hours later (I could sleep in today ) and you've posted 20 pages already?

 

Catching up now. On page 9 currently. Just felt the need to complain a bit

[Turin Turambar]

[V] Eldrick [/v]

 

Need a counter wagon. Eldrick is my other most likely choice for mafia. Zander being the other. I however don't think they are teammates.

 

Currently thinking BFG, Lenlo and Dice are town.

 

Of those voting zander I suspect those that haven't given follow up reasons. (Sooh, but hopefully her stance will become clear soon).

 

Csarmi a bit weird to me so far also.

[Turin Turambar]

Zander, about the implying Len is town thing. I think it is pretty clear.

 

You stated mafia could hide behind the "joke vote". This would be similar to piggybacking behind a townie pushing another townie. The mafia vote and lynch the townie but then blame the townie that kes the lynch. By staring the mafia would be in effect "following the townie", you imply that Len is in fact town. You may not have meant to do so but the implication is logically sound.

 

So in effect if you flip mafia then you have inadvertently spewed Len town. Thanks.

 

I hope this makes sense.

[Turin Turambar]

Kes= led

[Sooh]

Tbh, as per page now I feel like there isn't much to be gained by looking at the Zander train in terms of wagonomics. It's an ungrounded joke vote train that built in the early hours of D0 with background in sign ups. Placement on the train and such I feel is less informative here than say when coming up on an actual lynch, however reactions from it are interesting and certainly kickstarted this Day. 

 

So, breakfast thoughts coming up:

This is D0. The only time I've seen D0 before is when there are trigger alignments. Considering everything the mods have said about balance changing and stuff AND the color of the PM being purple (half red and half blue), perhaps we're all vanilla? 

(I fully expect Zander to jump on me for saying this though)

 

In any case, I doubt that Zander is scum and I will take back what was indeed a joke vote at the beginning of the game [unvote]

 

Going out to do things though. I'll be back in a few hours. Then I should be in real time until lynch. 

[Eldrick4221]

Responses in green

 

Dangit. I wanted to be first. Got my role pm at 7. When I found out at 11, the thread wasn't up yet. I went back to sleep lol.

[v]Zander [/v]

 

fair enuff

 

 

Hi Zander, what do you think about Laine's vote/unvote?

It's been noted. I was under the impression Zander was going down N0. That's why the petition got attention. If he flips scum, I am looking at her for backing off.

 

 

this sets my teeth on edge

 

I actually thought we were deciding who lynch before the game started. I personally wasn't treating it as a joke, but realized it was after multiple people called it one.

 

 

Ugh, this is an awful argument.

Zander's posting in purple, means he's either town or mafia have a sample Town role PM, or both /shrug

It doesn't clear him, his reaction is pretty extreme though.



Laine's reaction is marginally more interesting, there isn't a majority hammer Day 0, so her unvote is unnecessary, so she's conscious of her vote, but I'm not sure this means much at this point.

All it means is he believes town pm color is purple. That doesn't mean town is the only one that gets purple. It doesn't mean he's town. This isn't worth discussing.

 

 

tries to dismiss the colour talk

 

Of course I did. Do you think it's worth discussing, because I don't.

 

 

 

 

Ugh, this is an awful argument.

Zander's posting in purple, means he's either town or mafia have a sample Town role PM, or both /shrug

It doesn't clear him, his reaction is pretty extreme though.



Laine's reaction is marginally more interesting, there isn't a majority hammer Day 0, so her unvote is unnecessary, so she's conscious of her vote, but I'm not sure this means much at this point.

All it means is he believes town pm color is purple. That doesn't mean town is the only one that gets purple. It doesn't mean he's town. This isn't worth discussing.

So you dont feel this is relevant at all? Not just pertaining to me but anyone thus far?

No. I dont. If you are town, you would know the color.

If you are scum, you could have a sample and believe you know the color

And we have no idea what color 3rd parties got their pm in. It might also be purple to make this null.

The color of your role bears no distinction to your alignment until proven otherwise.

 

 

brings up 3p   he mentions 3p a couple of times

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Zander, what do you think about Laine's vote/unvote?

It's been noted. I was under the impression Zander was going down N0. That's why the petition got attention. If he flips scum, I am looking at her for backing off.

Serious?

Ok, what if he flips town?

Then we were wrong. It happens. And we learn something from how people acted about it.

If he flips town, it won't make Laine look scummy for unvoting.

I CALL BS

Nothing would be learned because everyone could just say they were just following the joke.

Except that my staying on you getting lynched isn't a joke reason anymore. The fact that Laine unvoted so quickly looks bad if you are scum. So I want to find out.

 

 

so why not vote Laine then??

 

My reason for her being scum is contingent on him being scum atp. It's obviously not a guarantee, but if he did flip scum, I would suspect her. The unvote by itself isn't scummy.

 

@Lenlo

Irt Laine unvoting and Zander flipping town.

I said she doesn't look scummy for it because she wouldn't have the "he's my teammate. I'm backing of this joke train" vibe

If she's scum and he's town, she wouldn't know that. She would only know he isn't on her team. And she would look 'not scum' to me because scum would stay on the train if it wasn't a teammate imo.

 

except scum DO white Knight townies.

 

I'm not saying it clears her. I'm saying  I wouldn't suspect her because of it. It would look good to me.

 

 

 

@Lenlo

Irt Laine unvoting and Zander flipping town.

I said she doesn't look scummy for it because she wouldn't have the "he's my teammate. I'm backing of this joke train" vibe

If she's scum and he's town, she wouldn't know that. She would only know he isn't on her team. And she would look 'not scum' to me because scum would stay on the train if it wasn't a teammate imo.

Odd, if Laine was mafia and Zander wasn't on her team why wouldn't she know he was town? Odds are extremely good he'd be town not third party in that scenario...

But people seem to forget they exist. If you aren't scum, you're town. There's also the possibility of 2 scum teams. We don't know. That's what I'm getting at. She wouldn't know he's town.

 

 

3p again

 

 

 

vote eldrick  he is either scum or 3p   feels like he has info i dont

 

You're free to think that. You're wrong, but I can't prove not to have info I don't have.

 

 

I dont like that fact people planned to start a vote on me before the game started and did it quickly when it did.

 

I dont like people thinking I cheated or skirted the rules when I reacted to it and made a plan to try and combat it.

 

This honestly took the fun out of the game for me.

 

If you think I scum just vote me When I flip Town you'll know what I was saying to be the truth.

 

I'm sorry that it took the fun out of it. Sometimes that happens. You were the butt of this, and that sucks for you.

 

 

 

im caught up but i want you to lay out in one place what you learnt from ure ploy that informs reads on people in this game

 
thats there is def wolves on it the most likely being Len atp imo.
 
Some of the people that popped in and voted me and left need to be looked at as well.
 
i dont wanna keep bringing this cause its caused some bad feeling but i felt that anyone who hear the color and was Town would know that I was Town.  the basic logic was really that simple brother.

I am town.
I have the same color.
I don't think it matters.
I don't think ur town.

 

 

Agree with bold.

 

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Maybe the only time I ISO someone and take notes all game. Hey, 23 pages, I can still do that without killing myself!

Eldrick:

 

 

#76 you vote Zander

#93 you say you thought the plan to auto-lynch Zander N0 was serious. Upon being asked what you thought of Laine's unvote, you say you'll suss her for backing off if Z flips scum.

#101 Zander's opening claim is null iyo

#110 Asked what if Z flips town, you say we'll "learn something from how people acted about it" and you won't suss Laine for unvoting.

#116 Questioned about #101, reiterates that it's null, mentions that 3p could have also received purple text.

#120 Says he is no longer voting Zander as a joke. ~~But in #93 you suggested that you had taken it seriously from the get-go.~~ He is now voting Zander because he thinks that, if Zander is scum, Laine's unvote implicates her as scum as well.

#125 Questioned about #116, again reiterates that it's null.

#129 Reiterates that Laine would not look scummy if Zander flips town because the flip would nullify his concern that she unvoted to protect a team mate. Mentions that if Laine is scum but not Zander's team mate, she would have no way of knowing whether Zander is town or simply some other faction not aligned with her. Says that if Zander isn't scum Laine is probably not scum either, because scum wouldn't unvote.

#162 Says that players tend to forget that not all games are just a single scum faction against town, but there could be other factions, so scum!Laine wouldn't know Zander is town just because she's not aligned with him. ~~This sort of internal disconnect is part of what makes Eldrick difficult to read. I believe he could make this statement as town.

#252 Explains that his initial vote was not "serious" but that with a 24 hour time limit any option is as good as the next. Laine's unvote, however, means that we can potentially learn something from Zander's lynch in particular. ~~Again, the disconnect is probably more null than it appears.

#256 95% certain that there are more than two alignments in this game.

#275 Glad to be town, feels good about Lenlo

#278 Explains that Zander should be lynched rather than Laine because the scumminess of her unvote is conditional upon Zander being scum.

#284 Hasn't found anyone, to include Zander, scummy yet, but wants to resolve his concern about Zander/Laine w/w.

#288 Says if Zander flips town, well, we were likely to mislynch anyway, and if he flips scum then we have a lead on Laine, so Zander is the way to go today.

#292 Likes Zander's attitude, says he's valuable as town and doesn't want to lose that, but he doesn't think Lenlo is scum. Asks Zander if he can convince him to unvote. ~~At this point Eldrick is pushing for a lynch on one of the only two players in the game he has said something positive about.

#310 Restates his question when Zander doesn't answer, thinks Lenlo is town, calls Zander defensive. Asks him to defend himself/say who he thinks is scum besides Lenlo.

#318 Calls out the OMGUS when Zander names Lenlo and BFG.

#328 irt BFG, uses "pushing" in a weird way: "her questioning could easily be seen as pushing. Trying to figure you out. Looking for a reason for you to be town or scum." ~~Not sure if he's saying either/or (null) or suggesting he thinks she's towns. Asks Zander for his opinion on why he should vote her.

#335 Says he fully intended to vote Zander coming into this game regardless of who else did, but most votes on Z have solidified for other reasons atp.

#343 Says Lenlo has given a reason to vote Zander (his case), BFG has given a reason to vote Zander (he feels more calculated than a towny ought to), he has his own reason for his vote (Laine's unvote).

#349 irt 328, says he thought BFG was questioning Zander with the intent to push him. ~~This says absolutely nothing about how he interprets BFG's intentions.

#360 Zander calls Eldrick out for fence sitting in #349 ~~rightly so~~ Eldrick doesn't get it. "Whether I think bfg is pushing you or not? Why does that matter? Who pushes who changes all game."

#365 Doesn't think Zander is scummy. Calls him null and really hopes he's own, wishes he had a reason to vote someone else. Reiterates that he's voting Zander because Laine unvoted him. Acknowledges that it's a weak reason.

 

 

 

Eldrick, you're a curious cat for me because I think we often draw drastically different conclusions from the same situation as either alignment.  I'm not sure how to distinguish scum!Eldrick flat out lying from town!Eldrick pursuing a course of action which simply makes no sense to me.  Help me out here.

 

Your game, as I see it, has consisted of voting Zander because he was "supposed" to be the D0 lynch, then strengthening your vote when BFG asked you what you thought about Laine unvoting based on the assumption that she would do this as scum if Zander was her team mate, then proceeding to repeatedly claim you really don't want to lose Zander if he's town but he's going to have to present a better option to you.  He suggested Lenlo, you said no, you think Lenlo is town.  He presented BFG, you shot that down with a seemingly null interpretation of her actions so far.

 

In #129, you suggest that scum!Laine would want to lynch town!Zander, so scum!Laine would not unvote if Zander is town, whereas scum!Laine would want to protect scum!Zander, so scum!Laine would unvote if Zander is scum.  Therefore Laine is likely to be town if Zander is town and scum if Zander is scum.  Do you think that town!Laine is less likely to unvote Zander if Zander is scum?

 

Town!Laine wouldn't know Zander's alignment. It's possible that the only reason she voted was the petition vote, and she wanted to remove it before things got out of hand. Do you disagree that her unvote looks bad for her if Zander is scum?

 

How do you normally hunt scum?  Explain to me, if you could, the approach you typically take to determine who you ought to lynch.  Do you think that my decision to unvote Zander and vote you instead has implications for me if Zander flips scum?

 

How do I hunt scum: I look for inconsistencies. I look for things worded weirdly, and things that sound like they have too much information. Once there are scum flips, I look for who avoided interacting with those people.

 

As for implications about your moving your vote to me, if Zander flips scum: Null. both town and scum over their vote if they see something they consider better to vote than what they currently have.

 

In #120, you characterized your initial vote as a joke, however you have also stated that any lynch is as good as the next due to our time restrictions, and you seemed to suggest in #93 that lynching Zander was quite serious.  Was it serious or a joke?  If it was a joke, what about Laine's unvote strikes you as more likely to be a protective move than simply an act of moving on from the joke?

 

I touched on this in my last post, but I will do more so here. I thought the petition was a serious thing, and was treating it as such. I was planning to vote him out of the gate, and was not surprised when other did the same thing. It wasn't a joke vote to me. After other people referenced the votes as joke votes, I realized I was alone in this way of thinking. Being my initial reason was because of the petition, I said it started out as a joke vote. My reason for voting gained more substance when Laine unvoted, when Lenlo had serious reasons for voting him, and when BFG had suspicions because of his calculated play. These reasons made sense to me for him to continue to be the lynch for today.

 

On the other hand, I have liked his game so far. I don't like that he's my top candidate for lynching. It's a serious conundrum.

 

While you have not explicitly called Zander town, you have pointed to things he's done which you have liked, and you have suggested that he is null at worst.  You have suggested that it is up to him to show you a better lynch candidate if you want him to unvote you.  If you saw another player take your current stance, would it bother you?

 

No. I don't see a problem with asking someone for a better option than themselves for your vote, and reasons why. Not only does it help you decide who to vote, but it also helps you see who they are looking at and why.

 

 

[Eldrick4221]

Tbh, as per page now I feel like there isn't much to be gained by looking at the Zander train in terms of wagonomics. It's an ungrounded joke vote train that built in the early hours of D0 with background in sign ups. Placement on the train and such I feel is less informative here than say when coming up on an actual lynch, however reactions from it are interesting and certainly kickstarted this Day. 

 

So, breakfast thoughts coming up:

This is D0. The only time I've seen D0 before is when there are trigger alignments. Considering everything the mods have said about balance changing and stuff AND the color of the PM being purple (half red and half blue), perhaps we're all vanilla? 

(I fully expect Zander to jump on me for saying this though)

 

In any case, I doubt that Zander is scum and I will take back what was indeed a joke vote at the beginning of the game [unvote]

 

Going out to do things though. I'll be back in a few hours. Then I should be in real time until lynch. 

Wow. I think you got something there. We could very well all be purple vanilla, and alignments and roles will be assigned N0.

 

What a weird way to start the game. That would mean mafia don't even know their teammates yet, and think they are town. Now my head hurts...

[Eldrick4221]

[V] Eldrick [/v]

 

Need a counter wagon. Eldrick is my other most likely choice for mafia. Zander being the other. I however don't think they are teammates.

 

Currently thinking BFG, Lenlo and Dice are town.

 

Of those voting zander I suspect those that haven't given follow up reasons. (Sooh, but hopefully her stance will become clear soon).

 

Csarmi a bit weird to me so far also.

 

I have an issue with your need for a counter wagon, but I don't know if it's because I'm your choice.

 

Why do you need a counter wagon? What's wrong with voting someone you suspect that already has votes.

 

Also, why me? What have I done that makes you suspicious?

[Eldrick4221]

So the likelihood of Laine's unvote because it was a joke vote and she wouldn't be around it sounding more and more plausible to me.

 

Being the basis of my vote is because I wanted to sort that out, [unvote]

[Eldrick4221]

is*

[Eldrick4221]

Question to mod:

 

Talking during N0 isn't allowed. It is allowed in the following nights, correct?

[Eldrick4221]

Question to mod:

 

Talking during N0 isn't allowed. It is allowed in the following nights, correct?

[alannalynn]

I'm home!!! And there's 24 pages. My hatred for all of you is still standing.

 

I only had enough time to skim while on breaks at work, but I did see speculation about my unvote. This is the most correct:

So the likelihood of Laine's unvote because it was a joke vote and she wouldn't be around it sounding more and more plausible to me.

 

Being the basis of my vote is because I wanted to sort that out, [unvote]

 

I voted Zander as a joke. The train was picking up. I was going to be gone for 12+ hours. I was not going to leave my vote there when I can't readily work to see if I like my vote being there or not. Y'all silly for reading into it any more than that.

 

Anywaysssss I'm getting a shower and I'll be back to catch up on these 24 FREAKING PAGES FML