[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

wish-tree · January 6, 2016

ok this is getting out of hand

everyone provide top 3 wtl

go

Still rereading you, buddy.

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

Shad_ · January 6, 2016

Also Kaylee had some really good players town reading her early.

It was just an all around outstanding game from her. My guess would be it was a well above average performance. (Not discrediting your scumming ability Kay, just saying you were especially impressive in that one.)

Kaylee · January 6, 2016

Ok back.

Sorry for the massive dip in ITT activity. Here's what's been going on:

For me this game is really an exercise in improving my ability to actually Town. I've been waiting a long time for this chance so I'm trying to make the most of it behind the scenes with the time I have.

Cory's had me going through the thread assigning "simple" + / - to every post that stands out to me in an attempt to help me get better at determining what's actually likely to be important and what's not. That might seem simple but my head is a messy space and I actually find making snap decisions/decisions at really, really hard.

Here's where I'm at right now:

I'm floundering, like I always do if I'm behind, about what's the best thing I can be doing ITT at this point. Think I get too caught up on the fact that I AM behind in everything (reading, notes, responses direct/indirect) and the fact that my understanding of the game is therefore not as good as possible.

I have no idea what the current vote count is and I'm not fully across current discussion but have superficially determined that:

1. Pizza has called for Kaylee lynch

2. There's a debate about lynch/don't lynch inactives (ie Pral)

3. Zander still gunning for Wish

4. Nothing has been done about Csarmi

Yolo thoughts on these are:

1. Pizza has seemed Towny all game but there is a chance he's Pizza Scum, because Pizza.

Kaylee responding well and giving opinions on new content which is positive in any case but null in relation to her alignment.

2. Pral should not be given a pass today if fighting back is not something he does as a Villager on D1

3. Zander/Wish Irrelevant - Neither of them are in the immediate PoE/slots that should/will be voted out today. Looking at PoE, Wish higher because conviction on Celeste likely true - no great motive for this as Scum. Sheeping Wish somewhat with Celeste read, my own initial gut reactions/recent game, plus zero doubt that Wish reads Celeste well. (Kinda freaky ?chances both of them are scum? - check this out D2. WRT Celeste, has she actually earned her place above Laine/Zander? Laine and Zander both working hard, wavering on both, both possibly Scum. Why am I giving Zander a pass?)

My reads/leans (based up to p. 50 with +/- and then skimming forwards of ~73 when I can) is currently

Shad/Lenlo

Pizza

Wish/Celeste/Laine/Zander

Kaylee/Nolder

Pral/Csarmi

This is slightly different to Cory's own reads, FWIW.

I'm going to try something different, accept that there's things I've missed and work with what I've got for now.

Current evolution on bottom four:

I still feel Kaylee maybe mimicking scum game - She's fairly passive from what I've seen. Pattern of question, accept answer; question, accept answer; move on could just be Town quietly evaluating, could be Scum coasting/not committing (COULD RE-READ SCUM GAME TO BE MORE SURE?). Main players I remember that happening with were Turin and Celeste, who I felt were scummy at the time. Possible that there was a fair bit of associative bias with read on Kaylee at the time I posted last reads list. Didn't really take into consideration that Turin claimed Town and Celeste is null-town with a slight chance of being scum in my own reads.

Nolder seemed overtly scummy with focus on gun question/catchups etc. Had a lot of gut minuses but perhaps less pertinent than I thought? Not as confident in that read now, since I've been maybe picking up on a switch in attitude (there was some sarcasm at his own early methods etc and recent game skim read showing more involvement in the thread). I initially put him lower than Pral because I was factoring in Pral's inactivity being 'normal' for him. Switch in attitude might be sign of Town Nolder playing TWTBAW early on? Should self resolve if Town so ?give more time?

Pral's inactive as usual, initially in the PoE for that alone. I've seen reports of effort at catching up, am unsure how effective these have really been.

I've only played with Town Pral and I don't think I've ever seen him this interested in D1. Can't recall if he's ever been considered for the lynch.

******** ?Does Scum Pral fight harder than Town Pral to avoid lynching on D1?*********

Csarmi is being more active, but he's still not NOT HUNTING SCUM. Possibly overwhelmed but I doubt it. Possibly overtly mimicking scum game in being too easy/eager to please? (Need to read his scum game to be SURE!!!!!)

******* DOES CSARMI look to please/stay this agreeable with people D1 as Town as well as Scum?

My preference from where I'm at right now would be to

*** Lynch Csarmi/Pral today ***

What you said about me is what someone said. Esp the question accept thing. That gives me pause about you and furthers tinfoil.

The rest I can see you're trying to figure out. Esp since I have a similar wtl pile.

Understandable if I haven't actually stated so ITT. Still something I came up with/noted on my own, and considered at some length *shrug*

I'm not shiny this time Kaylee - Promise!

Love the last comment. Lol I'm not either and hope to prove it. I guess I can understand that...still using same wording is just, I don't know. Gave bad vibes.

Askthepizzaguy · January 6, 2016

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

Then I definitely want to hear more from you after this part is done.

If you know Kaylee, you should be able to tell me after the reveal if it's rampant werewolf disease or completely normal Kaylee.

Sure I'll try to take some time off at work for you. But I don't know when.

Before end of day one, I'm assuming, yes?

12 hours from now maybe? Sooner?

I'll be at work for ~8h more. Will find some time during that.

That's everyone, right? I don't think Csarmi or Pralaya are doing this.

I haven't come there yet. What do you want us to do?

He wants us to read Kaylee ISO.

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

In her head.

Kaylee scum: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/81647-the-hunger-games-mafia-advanced-game-over-town-and-tg-wins/

Kaylee town: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/84758-basic-die-hard-for-mafia-game-thread/

Yea that was 1.5 year ago (found it in my siggy).

This Kaylee looked normal town!Kaylee for me, but I'll check what you have. Not sure I can formulate why.

That was in a DM meta where finding villagers was frowned upon, a couple of years ago. Then Cory came.

Pizza, we need to find a game that's more recent.

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

Thats just fundamentally not how i read her - or people. The posts saw were things i would expect her to say. May be biased cause i could just folloe her thoughts and they coincided with what i saw but i dont think its just that. Gonna did up some examplee i liked later i am on tab now.

This, Nolder.

Before I even presented the case, Csarmi was like, nope she's town.

Gave me more games to ISO, starting from a long time ago. Others say her more recent games are closer to this one.

The bottom quote is the worst one. I really don't think he was ever persuadable.

wish-tree · January 6, 2016

Also Kaylee had some really good players town reading her early.

It was just an all around outstanding game from her. My guess would be it was a well above average performance. (Not discrediting your scumming ability Kay, just saying you were especially impressive in that one.)

Hmm

So you think that this game is still within her scum range?

I really liked the Pizza argument when I read it

but just analyzing posting content, style, and type from her town game and this game seems to point to more similarities with her town game than Frozen (even if it is a bad game to ISO her as scum in).

Nolder · January 6, 2016

Nomi - First of all I want to note that he is the only person still at 0. With the amount he posts I find that troubling. Actually as I type that I realize he should be in the negative for some of the things I pointed out earlier in regards to Celeste but I haven't had the time to enter them into my notes. So ok he "was" at 0 and that was bothering me a lot. Then we get into the Celeste thing. I'll try to keep this simple since it's meant to be a summary. He agrees Celeste is scummy but doesn't want to lynch her. I challenge him on that and he says she never dipped below -1 in his reads but then I find a post of his where he puts her as his bottom read. It doesn't make sense not to want to lynch your bottom read. This is a clear contradiction and IMO he's caught scum and needs to be lynched ASAP.

Celeste - I despise saying someone is a good lynch for information because I believe this is a common scum tactic to justify lynches when they have no better reason...but Celeste really would yield a lot of information from her lynch. She's been linked to Wish, Nomi, Kaylee, and Shad. I think he death would break open this weird circle of trust going on between these people. That all aside, I don't like how she refused to answer my sidewalk question. She voted Shad in post #500 for his "tone". She unvoted in post #879 saying he's "shaping up". These are vague reasons and I believe that's intentional. I believe I asked several times about her Rustlemania references but never received an answer that I recall. I also don't think she ever answered my question about Shad in post #793 when I asked her to put her read in terms of 1-10. This is all very shady IMHO.

Cass - Please note that this is not the case I wanted to bring to you guys. I wanted it to have more substance but right now it's more a bad feeling. Hopefully I will be able to flesh it out more later. First of all I want to note Cass tops out the negative side of my point spectrum with -3 right now which is a pretty bad score for D1 and she got it pretty early in D1 as well. In Post #44 she says she's slightly wary of Alanna and asks if she's a wolf. This is weird because it's only page 3 and Alanna has posted a total of 3 times. There's literally nothing to be wary of. I mean if that's just a joke/excuse to engage and ask if she's a wolf ok but it just stood out to me. Post #109 she explains why she's "wary" of Xander and Alanna. I found the post lacking and full of excuses. She says it's too early to be of consequence but if that's true then why did she even say it in the first place? Post #1386 she voted Csarmi and didn't give a reason. I'm all for reaction testing and whatnot but it seems that 1000+ posts in it's time to start giving reasons with votes. And that's all I got so far besides the fact that she went MIA after being townread early in the game. I don't expect anyone to lynch her over this but I intend to pursue it further and build on the case as the game goes forward. If she's scummy I'll certainly have more to work with.

Find the post where I said Turin, Celeste, and Kaylee were all at -1.

Those were my bottom 3.

I said it several times in fact.

JFC man.

Celeste is at the bottom of my POE after Turin.

Above Celeste is Kaylee and Csarmi.

Pralaya at null is above that.

In truth, I'd do some more reading before deciding.

And Celeste is the bottom.

But you refuse to lynch her.

I don't care about the imaginary number you've assigned to your read it's irrelevant.

You've stated she is at the bottom. The bottom. Not tied.

Kaylee · January 6, 2016

I'd lynch Csarmi today if not Kaylee.

Of those who didn't want to lynch her, he looks the worst.

So lynch me or someone who wants to keep me around? That's what this sounds like.

wish-tree · January 6, 2016

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

Then I definitely want to hear more from you after this part is done.

If you know Kaylee, you should be able to tell me after the reveal if it's rampant werewolf disease or completely normal Kaylee.

Sure I'll try to take some time off at work for you. But I don't know when.

Before end of day one, I'm assuming, yes?

12 hours from now maybe? Sooner?

I'll be at work for ~8h more. Will find some time during that.

That's everyone, right? I don't think Csarmi or Pralaya are doing this.

I haven't come there yet. What do you want us to do?

He wants us to read Kaylee ISO.

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

In her head.

Kaylee scum: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/81647-the-hunger-games-mafia-advanced-game-over-town-and-tg-wins/

Kaylee town: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/84758-basic-die-hard-for-mafia-game-thread/

Yea that was 1.5 year ago (found it in my siggy).

This Kaylee looked normal town!Kaylee for me, but I'll check what you have. Not sure I can formulate why.

That was in a DM meta where finding villagers was frowned upon, a couple of years ago. Then Cory came.

Pizza, we need to find a game that's more recent.

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

Thats just fundamentally not how i read her - or people. The posts saw were things i would expect her to say. May be biased cause i could just folloe her thoughts and they coincided with what i saw but i dont think its just that. Gonna did up some examplee i liked later i am on tab now.

This, Nolder.

Before I even presented the case, Csarmi was like, nope she's town.

Gave me more games to ISO, starting from a long time ago. Others say her more recent games are closer to this one.

The bottom quote is the worst one. I really don't think he was ever persuadable.

So you think he set her up? Read her as town and then proceeded to give you info to condemn her because of her change of meta?

Kaylee · January 6, 2016

Specifically, the reasons given for not wanting to lynch Kaylee felt like someone who knows, despite my casing of Kaylee (is good case, convinced me anyway) that it's somehow still wrong.

He didn't even really begin to consider it. But he kept feeding me data to hammer her with, like a good little scum.

This overshadows my original read on him being csarming and helpful.

Ok that makes more sense.

Nolder · January 6, 2016

ok this is getting out of hand

everyone provide top 3 wtl

go

Nomi, Celeste, Cass.

Kaylee · January 6, 2016

If the Kaylee case is wrong, Csarmi should hang.

I still want to lynch Kaylee but if that's not happening because someone knows it's wrong, I want to kill the person that knew it without even giving it a chance.

That I can agreed with. Honestly even though the case it wrong it has good points. Hell it makes it harder for me to show I'm town since our has good points. It just means I need to try harder. Noted and will do my best.

Askthepizzaguy · January 6, 2016

Nomi - First of all I want to note that he is the only person still at 0. With the amount he posts I find that troubling. Actually as I type that I realize he should be in the negative for some of the things I pointed out earlier in regards to Celeste but I haven't had the time to enter them into my notes. So ok he "was" at 0 and that was bothering me a lot. Then we get into the Celeste thing. I'll try to keep this simple since it's meant to be a summary. He agrees Celeste is scummy but doesn't want to lynch her. I challenge him on that and he says she never dipped below -1 in his reads but then I find a post of his where he puts her as his bottom read. It doesn't make sense not to want to lynch your bottom read. This is a clear contradiction and IMO he's caught scum and needs to be lynched ASAP.

Celeste - I despise saying someone is a good lynch for information because I believe this is a common scum tactic to justify lynches when they have no better reason...but Celeste really would yield a lot of information from her lynch. She's been linked to Wish, Nomi, Kaylee, and Shad. I think he death would break open this weird circle of trust going on between these people. That all aside, I don't like how she refused to answer my sidewalk question. She voted Shad in post #500 for his "tone". She unvoted in post #879 saying he's "shaping up". These are vague reasons and I believe that's intentional. I believe I asked several times about her Rustlemania references but never received an answer that I recall. I also don't think she ever answered my question about Shad in post #793 when I asked her to put her read in terms of 1-10. This is all very shady IMHO.

Cass - Please note that this is not the case I wanted to bring to you guys. I wanted it to have more substance but right now it's more a bad feeling. Hopefully I will be able to flesh it out more later. First of all I want to note Cass tops out the negative side of my point spectrum with -3 right now which is a pretty bad score for D1 and she got it pretty early in D1 as well. In Post #44 she says she's slightly wary of Alanna and asks if she's a wolf. This is weird because it's only page 3 and Alanna has posted a total of 3 times. There's literally nothing to be wary of. I mean if that's just a joke/excuse to engage and ask if she's a wolf ok but it just stood out to me. Post #109 she explains why she's "wary" of Xander and Alanna. I found the post lacking and full of excuses. She says it's too early to be of consequence but if that's true then why did she even say it in the first place? Post #1386 she voted Csarmi and didn't give a reason. I'm all for reaction testing and whatnot but it seems that 1000+ posts in it's time to start giving reasons with votes. And that's all I got so far besides the fact that she went MIA after being townread early in the game. I don't expect anyone to lynch her over this but I intend to pursue it further and build on the case as the game goes forward. If she's scummy I'll certainly have more to work with.

Find the post where I said Turin, Celeste, and Kaylee were all at -1.

Those were my bottom 3.

I said it several times in fact.

JFC man.

Celeste is at the bottom of my POE after Turin.

Above Celeste is Kaylee and Csarmi.

Pralaya at null is above that.

In truth, I'd do some more reading before deciding.

And Celeste is the bottom.

But you refuse to lynch her.

I don't care about the imaginary number you've assigned to your read it's irrelevant.

You've stated she is at the bottom. The bottom. Not tied.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHJHJHJJJJJJJJJJ

I have 3 people at the bottom of my leans.

One of whom is removed from the bottom of my leans for whatever reason, leaves 2 people

At the bottom of my leans.

2 people

At the bottom of my leans.

2 people.

At the bottom.

2 at the bottom.

Who I have not even done a recent ISO on.

Enough!

wish-tree · January 6, 2016

PIZZA

stop ignoring me

do you have me on ignore or something?

Nolder · January 6, 2016

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

Then I definitely want to hear more from you after this part is done.

If you know Kaylee, you should be able to tell me after the reveal if it's rampant werewolf disease or completely normal Kaylee.

Sure I'll try to take some time off at work for you. But I don't know when.

Before end of day one, I'm assuming, yes?

12 hours from now maybe? Sooner?

I'll be at work for ~8h more. Will find some time during that.

That's everyone, right? I don't think Csarmi or Pralaya are doing this.

I haven't come there yet. What do you want us to do?

He wants us to read Kaylee ISO.

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

In her head.

Kaylee scum: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/81647-the-hunger-games-mafia-advanced-game-over-town-and-tg-wins/

Kaylee town: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/84758-basic-die-hard-for-mafia-game-thread/

Yea that was 1.5 year ago (found it in my siggy).

This Kaylee looked normal town!Kaylee for me, but I'll check what you have. Not sure I can formulate why.

That was in a DM meta where finding villagers was frowned upon, a couple of years ago. Then Cory came.

Pizza, we need to find a game that's more recent.

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

Thats just fundamentally not how i read her - or people. The posts saw were things i would expect her to say. May be biased cause i could just folloe her thoughts and they coincided with what i saw but i dont think its just that. Gonna did up some examplee i liked later i am on tab now.

This, Nolder.

Before I even presented the case, Csarmi was like, nope she's town.

Gave me more games to ISO, starting from a long time ago. Others say her more recent games are closer to this one.

The bottom quote is the worst one. I really don't think he was ever persuadable.

Yeah ok I can agree with that statement.

Not sure what it means if anything though.

Shad_ · January 6, 2016

@Salami, if it looks like you're getting lynched today and you are town, i want you to character claim even if VT.

Shad - Tress always provides safe claims as a mod...

I am aware that scum necessarily have fake claims in this game.

Cass · January 6, 2016

Some concrete points bugging me wrt Csarmi this game:

Woo. I am awesome. That value.

Oh wait it isn't hearthstone.Still cool.So wassup.
Is the first one a quotation or reference to something?

The first thing my character made me think of.

Tress always provides safe claims for her scum teams. Csarmi has been around long enough to know this. It's essentially null even if it wasn't just a reaction to his rand.

[v]Penny![/v]

LOVELY PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I. AM. TOWN !!!!!!!!

And I have permission/instruction from Cory to go #FULLCASS!!

Ooooooohhhh Wiiiiiilllllvvvveessssss.....

Watchyo back!

Cass I have no Meta on you...is joke votes normal for you? How do you play? What are your scum tells??? Or is it just straight Rand.Org has forever branded you a Wolf??!!!

lmklmklmk

This is somehow out of tone for me espec7ally given Zanny's earlier posts around here. Awkward switch of ... Approach.

Csarmi - explain further please because this is the one that really, really bothers me. You call something out of tone and awkward and then you never address it again. What gives?

1. What did you see that was awkward about Zander's approach/switch?

2. If it bothered you enough to comment about it, why didn't you push/question Zander further?

Since when does Town you note something as awkward and then just completely let it go?

What the hell?

Is this at me?

Yeah.

Then why not elaborate on your apparent confusion so we can begin to work things out?

That link takes you to a site where you can generate the numbers.

I always prefer a period and a space between the numbers and my notes, and it allows you to add that as a suffix. Not sure why it didn't copy over onto the site, it copied into my notes just fine. I think DM drops the space if it's not being used.

Ok?

I just don't get so much of this. lol. What are the numbers for? What is 'per-post notes'? Why are we even discussing this?

Why are we discussing this?

Essentially, I don't understand why you thought a note-taking system was something worth dropping randomly into the thread. I'm suspicious of motives by nature, and I question things when they stand out. This stood out. I'm after elaboration on your motives in your own words so I can try and read your alignment based on whether or not I find it easy to believe what you say. I can explain my light concern/thought-process further after you answer if you like?

Right now I'm confused by the purpose of your post, and I don't like that you didn't just communicate straight up :P

The other, less important part is I'm not sure how it would work/I'm wondering if you actually take notes on every post?

Cass is looking town. Sounds genuine and not even the least bit stressed.

All right. Got a good handle on you now, Cass.

My initial reaction to you made me recalibrate the scum scope a lot until I found a you that I could understand. Fortunately I am a brand of that kind of villager sometimes so it's not completely foreign, or you'd sound all kinds of forced. Hah.

I don't understand what you mean by 'recalibrate the scum scope' but, well, read my wolf games. That's me forced.

Read my previous Town games. That's me more leashed.

If you're INFP like was said in chat, understand my personality as the extraverted version. I'm the same type as Zander. Campaigner/Champion/Possibility hunter. I'm also less experienced and really tired. I'm just getting in early because excitement and Cory threatened I need to make 10-15 posts each RL day and excitement.

You're pretty spot-on with the manic observation, and yep, I'll come down and hopefully be easier to understand.

Re-read complete, and my villager leans are thusly

We're not giving points for everything this time, that leads to runaway (Lenlo) scumreads which are sucky and don't reverse until it's problem. Instead posts which are likely town but more easily faked as scum are 0 with the word town next to it.

Askthepizzaguy (again!)
Cassy +5 initial wtf reaction has been clarified a lot. Yeah blue.
Shad +3 not outside his scum game but much improvement
Laine +2 Not confident but in my top 3
Zander Null points, but +1 overall (Not outside his scum range but I get good vibes)
Csarmi Null points, but +1 good feels
Turin Null points, but +1 good feels
Kaylee Null
Lenlo Null
Celeste Null

Wish True Null
Pralaya True Null
Nolder True Null

Manic Cass is townic Cass. Agree with her self-assessment, Pizza's approach, and just about ready to clear Cass there.

Never played with Pizza before but he lookw to be trying to solve the game and his approach is +EV. Green, I guess?

Think I'm at Shad and Cass as villagers, Pizza and Leno as possible villagers.

I sound genuine/not stressed/manic so I am Town?

Csarmi, I am Town, but you are one who has told me several times you've correctly read me Scum early in other games when others are clearing me for relaxed and happy tone. I don't buy it here.

1. What's different about this game that would make you believe I'm town on manic/unstressed tone?

Nolder · January 6, 2016

Nomi - First of all I want to note that he is the only person still at 0. With the amount he posts I find that troubling. Actually as I type that I realize he should be in the negative for some of the things I pointed out earlier in regards to Celeste but I haven't had the time to enter them into my notes. So ok he "was" at 0 and that was bothering me a lot. Then we get into the Celeste thing. I'll try to keep this simple since it's meant to be a summary. He agrees Celeste is scummy but doesn't want to lynch her. I challenge him on that and he says she never dipped below -1 in his reads but then I find a post of his where he puts her as his bottom read. It doesn't make sense not to want to lynch your bottom read. This is a clear contradiction and IMO he's caught scum and needs to be lynched ASAP.

Celeste - I despise saying someone is a good lynch for information because I believe this is a common scum tactic to justify lynches when they have no better reason...but Celeste really would yield a lot of information from her lynch. She's been linked to Wish, Nomi, Kaylee, and Shad. I think he death would break open this weird circle of trust going on between these people. That all aside, I don't like how she refused to answer my sidewalk question. She voted Shad in post #500 for his "tone". She unvoted in post #879 saying he's "shaping up". These are vague reasons and I believe that's intentional. I believe I asked several times about her Rustlemania references but never received an answer that I recall. I also don't think she ever answered my question about Shad in post #793 when I asked her to put her read in terms of 1-10. This is all very shady IMHO.

Cass - Please note that this is not the case I wanted to bring to you guys. I wanted it to have more substance but right now it's more a bad feeling. Hopefully I will be able to flesh it out more later. First of all I want to note Cass tops out the negative side of my point spectrum with -3 right now which is a pretty bad score for D1 and she got it pretty early in D1 as well. In Post #44 she says she's slightly wary of Alanna and asks if she's a wolf. This is weird because it's only page 3 and Alanna has posted a total of 3 times. There's literally nothing to be wary of. I mean if that's just a joke/excuse to engage and ask if she's a wolf ok but it just stood out to me. Post #109 she explains why she's "wary" of Xander and Alanna. I found the post lacking and full of excuses. She says it's too early to be of consequence but if that's true then why did she even say it in the first place? Post #1386 she voted Csarmi and didn't give a reason. I'm all for reaction testing and whatnot but it seems that 1000+ posts in it's time to start giving reasons with votes. And that's all I got so far besides the fact that she went MIA after being townread early in the game. I don't expect anyone to lynch her over this but I intend to pursue it further and build on the case as the game goes forward. If she's scummy I'll certainly have more to work with.

Find the post where I said Turin, Celeste, and Kaylee were all at -1.

Those were my bottom 3.

I said it several times in fact.

JFC man.

Celeste is at the bottom of my POE after Turin.

Above Celeste is Kaylee and Csarmi.

Pralaya at null is above that.

In truth, I'd do some more reading before deciding.

And Celeste is the bottom.

But you refuse to lynch her.

I don't care about the imaginary number you've assigned to your read it's irrelevant.

You've stated she is at the bottom. The bottom. Not tied.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHJHJHJJJJJJJJJJ

I have 3 people at the bottom of my leans.

One of whom is removed from the bottom of my leans for whatever reason, leaves 2 people

At the bottom of my leans.

2 people

At the bottom of my leans.

2 people.

At the bottom.

2 at the bottom.

Who I have not even done a recent ISO on.

Enough!

Ok so two at the bottom. Turin claimed Doc.

The next logical place to go is Celeste.

Askthepizzaguy · January 6, 2016

If the Kaylee case is wrong, Csarmi should hang.

I still want to lynch Kaylee but if that's not happening because someone knows it's wrong, I want to kill the person that knew it without even giving it a chance.

What do you think of my analysis of her posting style?

I have not read it in detail.

Reading to catch up on current information =/= deeper analysis.

This is also why I can have a feel for not trusting someone, ISO them, and then have a much different opinion Nolder.

Kaylee · January 6, 2016

Page 91

I'm not sheeping the extant suspicion on Csarmi. This is just how I'm feeling with regard to the Kaylee case.

If Kaylee's guilty that case was a slam dunk. Wolves should be on her wagon by now.

Actually yeah, was surprised it didn't get me more votes. I fully expected to have at least three votes when I caught up.

Anyway it is wrong and now I'm leaning towards voting Csarmi from what you said earlier.

Zander? · January 6, 2016

Pizza calm down and talk to Zander buddy

Askthepizzaguy · January 6, 2016

ok this is getting out of hand

everyone provide top 3 wtl

go

Still rereading you, buddy.

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

Not willing to lynch Nolder today despite his annoyances.

Kaylee · January 6, 2016

I think Kaylee is acting well outside of what I think she's capable of as a villager.

I don't like the fact that she still hasn't pushed anyone. I want villagers who are wrongly suspected to continue fighting. This looks similar to anti-spew but I can see how it might not be.

I'm getting thread indicators that I'm wrong about Kaylee.

It's nothing she's done, for sure. It's the rest of you folks.

I am trying to fight it. I'm not sold on anyone as scum yet. I'm just not sure.

wish-tree · January 6, 2016

ISO-ing Zander

Lenlo · January 6, 2016

Nomi - First of all I want to note that he is the only person still at 0. With the amount he posts I find that troubling. Actually as I type that I realize he should be in the negative for some of the things I pointed out earlier in regards to Celeste but I haven't had the time to enter them into my notes. So ok he "was" at 0 and that was bothering me a lot. Then we get into the Celeste thing. I'll try to keep this simple since it's meant to be a summary. He agrees Celeste is scummy but doesn't want to lynch her. I challenge him on that and he says she never dipped below -1 in his reads but then I find a post of his where he puts her as his bottom read. It doesn't make sense not to want to lynch your bottom read. This is a clear contradiction and IMO he's caught scum and needs to be lynched ASAP.

Celeste - I despise saying someone is a good lynch for information because I believe this is a common scum tactic to justify lynches when they have no better reason...but Celeste really would yield a lot of information from her lynch. She's been linked to Wish, Nomi, Kaylee, and Shad. I think he death would break open this weird circle of trust going on between these people. That all aside, I don't like how she refused to answer my sidewalk question. She voted Shad in post #500 for his "tone". She unvoted in post #879 saying he's "shaping up". These are vague reasons and I believe that's intentional. I believe I asked several times about her Rustlemania references but never received an answer that I recall. I also don't think she ever answered my question about Shad in post #793 when I asked her to put her read in terms of 1-10. This is all very shady IMHO.

Cass - Please note that this is not the case I wanted to bring to you guys. I wanted it to have more substance but right now it's more a bad feeling. Hopefully I will be able to flesh it out more later. First of all I want to note Cass tops out the negative side of my point spectrum with -3 right now which is a pretty bad score for D1 and she got it pretty early in D1 as well. In Post #44 she says she's slightly wary of Alanna and asks if she's a wolf. This is weird because it's only page 3 and Alanna has posted a total of 3 times. There's literally nothing to be wary of. I mean if that's just a joke/excuse to engage and ask if she's a wolf ok but it just stood out to me. Post #109 she explains why she's "wary" of Xander and Alanna. I found the post lacking and full of excuses. She says it's too early to be of consequence but if that's true then why did she even say it in the first place? Post #1386 she voted Csarmi and didn't give a reason. I'm all for reaction testing and whatnot but it seems that 1000+ posts in it's time to start giving reasons with votes. And that's all I got so far besides the fact that she went MIA after being townread early in the game. I don't expect anyone to lynch her over this but I intend to pursue it further and build on the case as the game goes forward. If she's scummy I'll certainly have more to work with.

Find the post where I said Turin, Celeste, and Kaylee were all at -1.

Those were my bottom 3.

I said it several times in fact.

JFC man.

Celeste is at the bottom of my POE after Turin.

Above Celeste is Kaylee and Csarmi.

Pralaya at null is above that.

In truth, I'd do some more reading before deciding.

And Celeste is the bottom.

But you refuse to lynch her.

I don't care about the imaginary number you've assigned to your read it's irrelevant.

You've stated she is at the bottom. The bottom. Not tied.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHJHJHJJJJJJJJJJ

I have 3 people at the bottom of my leans.

One of whom is removed from the bottom of my leans for whatever reason, leaves 2 people

At the bottom of my leans.

2 people

At the bottom of my leans.

2 people.

At the bottom.

2 at the bottom.

Who I have not even done a recent ISO on.

Enough!

Ok so two at the bottom. Turin claimed Doc.

The next logical place to go is Celeste.

I believe he said 3 at the bottom, turin claimed Doc, now theres 2. Those 2 being Celeste and Kaylee I believe.

csarmi · January 6, 2016

Night all.

Not sure i will be back. Hopefully.

I'm Ysera. Hunt well.

[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

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