[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Zander?]

Town

Csarmi

Alanna

Lenlo

 

Null

Xander

Turin (claims Doc)

Wish

Pral

Kaylee

Shad

 

Scum

Nomi

Celeste

Cass

 

 

so is it safe to assume you arent buying Turin's claim?

[Nolder]

 

Town

Csarmi

Alanna

Lenlo

 

Null

Xander

Turin (claims Doc)

Wish

Pral

Kaylee

Shad

 

Scum

Nomi

Celeste

Cass

 

 

so is it safe to assume you arent buying Turin's claim?

 

That's incorrect. It would be more correct to say I'm not letting his claim impact my read.

[Zander?]

The reason I've been so closed about my reads, as I've told you all, is that I was hunting someone and didn't want to tip them off. That someone was Cass. I've been stalling for time because I wanted to build a better case for you all before presenting it because most people town read Cass early and I knew I was going to need a real solid case to convince anyone. I don't have that case. I have been waiting for Cass to post more so I could catch her but she's been MIA since the early game. I've decided it's better to just tell everyone where I'm at than stall any further because being closed about my reads is getting me scum read and I'm not even advancing my case on Cass. I'm sorry if the way I've been playing has frustrated some of you believe me I was frustrated too. So going forward I'll have to hunt Cass with her knowing I'm on the case. Which is fine I guess it's not like it's impossible to scumhunt that way I was just hoping she'd have her guard down if she thought everyone had her as clear. So there it is. In my next post I'll be talking about why I have everyone where they are on my list.

 

 

fwiw I dont hate this,  Some people (OBV not me....lolololololol) play that way.  I think Shad's kinda like that as well with holding his cards close to his chest.  its not my way but I can certainly understand some people do.

[Nolder]

Csarmi - You know, honestly, this is just one of those things. It's the way he's talking as he's catching up. I can't explain it other than to call it a gut read or intuition. I like what he's doing enough to townread him for it. I can't explain it. Like...can you explain to someone how to "get in the zone" in basketball? You know, when people can make free throws all day long? You can't just say stand there, bend your knees this far, hold the ball like this, arch your wrists like that, let the ball go at this angle, etc. No no no you just say shoot the ball and you'll know it when you feel it. Right now I feel it from Csarmi and that's all I can say about it.

 

Alanna - This case is similar to Csarmi since she was catching up when I decided she was town. It wasn't what she said so much as how quickly she caught up. I think a scummy Alanna would be ok with being in perpetual catch up mode at least for awhile but she fought her way through the read to catch up with everyone. I give her major townie points for it.

 

Lenlo -  I believe I already talked about Lenlo before but I can repeat it. Post #252 I liked what he said about meta. I liked post #307. He questioned Alanna townreading him which to me signals town because scum will usually just accept it unless they're playing for the long game which not many do. Townies are wary of being buddied so I think that's what that was. And I liked that he voted Celeste in post #1126 because I had already been scum reading her by that point for awhile. 

 

Xander - Xander might be the person I have the most notes on but they're contradictory. Sometimes he does things I like and sometimes he does things I don't like so I don't know where to put him. Which is why he's still in null. For example I liked posts #283, #340, and #523. I didn't like that he put Nomi as towniest player and Wish as scummiest in post #843. Also didn't like his response to my question about the people on the sidewalk, IMO it was off his meta to respond like that. So Xander I don't know what to do with other than continue to collect posts I like and don't like and see what eventually weighs out.

 

Turin - This is the first game I haven't thought Turin was scum in from the getgo in a long long time. I wasn't convinced he was town but he wasn't starting off on the wrong foot other than his response to my sidewalk question. I did notice he said Nomi is probably mafia in post #1061 which of course I agree with but then I thought it was off he voted Wish in post #1079 saying Nomi wont be getting lynched today anyway. And of course he claimed Doctor after pressure. I'm not sure that I believe him but I don't have any reason to want to lynch him right now and I'm not going to let the claim clear him so in the null pile he sits.

 

Wish - I don't have a lot of notes on Wish. I didn't like that she called Cass and Celeste town so early in post #141. Post #371 was offputting and I didn't like that either. She did answer my sidewalk question which was good and other than that I got nothing. I haven't disliked her posts enough to think she's scummy but I haven't been convinced she's town yet. Mainly I'm waiting to see how her connection to Cass and Celeste plays out. 

 

Pral - Literally nothing to comment on. He's catching up. I guess. He hasn't given any thoughts or indicated he knows what's going on. 

 

Kaylee - The only thing I have in my notes worth mentioning is that in post #831 she agreed with Shad that Wish/Celeste are not W/W. Other than that I've got nothing. I've been more focused on other players and nothing Kaylee has said has really sparked my interest one way or another. I think that might be because most of her posts are either "I agree" type posts or questions that never have followup from her so in order to get a better idea you have to look at who she's talking to and what they're saying rather than what Kaylee is saying. I only noticed this when I read her ISO last night because of Nomi though so I haven't had a chance to follow up on that.

 

Shad - Shad is kind of in the same boat as Xander. I have a lot of contradictory notes and don't know what to do with him yet. He started out bad in posts #15/16. I thought it was weird to mention the players he didn't have meta on right at the start like he was setting up mislynches early. In post #617 he gave a reads list and I thought it was weird he had Csarmi at the top of it. He said he explained why but I never found the explanation. I liked his question to Turin in post #717. Then he started the whole Wish/Celeste thing. In post #788 he says Celeste is town and Wish could be either but is probably town. Post #799 stood out to me because he says he's basing his read on Celeste based on Wish's behavior. I think that stuff is ok later in the game but it seems really early not to judge people on their own merits. In post #1103 he said he was getting good vibes from me which I found a little strange and out of nowhere but it's not necessarily a bad thing. So Shad I don't know what to do with.

 

 

Gonna put the scum reads in their own post I think.

 

[Zander?]

 

 

 

You seemed to trust my meta read on Wish earlier, at least to an extent.  What made it compelling in your opinion?

The fact that you took the time to read other games to get it. I'm torn on her because as Alanna said I too like how she's been responding regarding Zander. Put that with your meta read on her makes me think she's less likely scum. That leaves Celeste whom I rather give time to tell, Csarmi, Pral who's gaining traction (still want to hear from him though) as POE and Wish less likely. I won't vote Zander, Pizza, Shad, or Turin (due to the claim).

Pral I really want to answer about how he felt Turin was town telling when it wasn't seen by anyone else at that point.

Leno, Cass and Alanna I still feel as town though they have the best ability to fool me. Alanna esp is just really coming from a town POV and I don't see it being her.

Nol recently has been sounding town to me as well so thinking it's not likely him either.

 

 

Kay my personal biggest concern with you irt to youre reads is me.  I dont think youve ever seen me Scum before.  Why do you think players like Shad, Pizza and Alanna for example are putting the effort and or not giving me a lazy Town read is...BECAUSE THEYVE SEEN ME SCUM.  They know how I can replicate my Town game pretty damn well!!!!

 

I dont see how you can do that so easily my dear, like at all.  Also the same with Pizza who is a GOAT player and can pull almost anything out of his bag of tricks as either alignment.  Like Im not sure but have you played with him before?

Pizza felt genuine honestly. And his case on me just seals it. I haven't played with him before but read games.

 

Your both just making points I find I agreed with. Basically you're the ones I've seemed to find myself thinking like so trust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will give +10 villager points to the first person who does an ISO on Kaylee and spots the pattern that should not exist from a villager.

 

Plus ten, guys.

 

Look for me please. This is a request to all present.

Given up on finding scum and now trying to get me lynched?

Be prepared to be wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing what you "found". At best it'll prove D1 is tough for me as town.

 

 

thats just a bad comment

Yeah that's because I thought he'd have bogus reasons. He had made good ones though that I'm trying to fight. Don't want to just give up cuts that won't help anyone

 

 

 

ok im just having trouble trying to determine if you actually are being genuine or not.  like i just have trouble in the fact I wanna believe you but i cant seem to bring myself to yet. if that makes sense.

[Shad_]

Do we have a more recent game on Kaylee?

 

 

This is condemning stuff but it's over 2 years old. I need a more recent villager game from Kaylee to see if she's changed her style closer to the one displayed this game.

 

I changed my style too, about a year and a half ago.

I linked you one from May. You said you'd look at it. I can pull up the link again but gonna catch up first and see if you got to it.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

 

Then I definitely want to hear more from you after this part is done.

 

If you know Kaylee, you should be able to tell me after the reveal if it's rampant werewolf disease or completely normal Kaylee.

Still not a wolf. Actually I've been trying to as transparent as possible. I've kept emotions out for the most part and that's unlike me.

 

 

Kay my dear instead of just responding with Im Town and Im not a Wolf.  Try digging in some more to show it instead of just saying the words.

Trying but I'm lost on who not to trust.

 

 

then just go out on a branch with your own reasons for reads and thoughts and the like.  Townies arent afraid to be wrong or sound bad nearly as often as Scum are my dear.

[Zander?]

 

 

Town

Csarmi

Alanna

Lenlo

 

Null

Xander

Turin (claims Doc)

Wish

Pral

Kaylee

Shad

 

Scum

Nomi

Celeste

Cass

 

 

so is it safe to assume you arent buying Turin's claim?

 

That's incorrect. It would be more correct to say I'm not letting his claim impact my read.

 

 

great answer imo.

[Shad_]

My primary WTL is Shad, Alanna, Wish and Pizza. it is most likely that not all 4 would be mafia but I think some of them are taking advantage of others to get first me and then planning on Celeste lynched. I have some thoguht that my calling of the second thing caused a change of target.

This idea you're sticking to that Wish, Pizza, and I have been trying to lynch Celeste is so out of touch with the game that I'm just kind of baffled at this point. It's almost like you chose the names arbitrarily.  I didn't get to reading Pizza's ISO on her so maybe he didn't resolve as tolerantly as the impression I've gotten since, but please show me examples of where wish-tree and myself are attempting to convince players to lynch Celeste.

[Kaylee]

 

ok im just having trouble trying to determine if you actually are being genuine or not. like i just have trouble in the fact I wanna believe you but i cant seem to bring myself to yet. if that makes sense.

It makes sense. I get it I do.

[Shad_]

They didnt to me hence why I asked.  Thats a good question Shad.  Why do you feel we are?  I mean we've disagreed on reads before and obv sometimes I miss stuffs but I feel like youre not talking to me enough and trying to work WITH ME like you usually do, as much this game.

I would say I'm not working 'with you' because I've pretty fundamentally disagreed with many of the things you point out.  Normally where we differ as v/v it's a matter of you seeing something scummy in behavior I find null, and sometimes you're right and I'm missing it and sometimes I'm right and you're reading too much into it, but I can usually get where you're coming from.  In this game you're raising questions and drawing conclusions that I struggle to grasp the origin of in Zandermind.

[Kaylee]

then just go out on a branch with your own reasons for reads and thoughts and the like. Townies arent afraid to be wrong or sound bad nearly as often as Scum are my dear.

Well I've given my POE.

 

Csarmi, Pral, Celeste.

 

Not sure I trust Turin yet bit time will tell and I don't feel comfortable voting a claimed town PR.

 

Csarmi and Pral have been catching up ama giving thoughts, which is good. I want to wait on Pral for now since he is catching up and yes he haS a hard time as either alignment when it's busy. When he's town he's a good asset.

 

Csarmi I haven't read anything that's for me saying "he's town". Still null here could vote here. I'm torn he seems to reading correctly.

 

Celeste I'm more waiting for content to make a better read on her.

 

Wish going with the meta read Shad did ands her recent posts she's higher on null pile. I'm now leaning if one of Celeste/Wish is scum that it'd be Celeste. For lack of content. (Kinda pot and kettle).

 

I could be wrong about my read on Cass or Leno. Those I'm kinda tinfoiling on. Cass because she's fooled before and Leno could easily do the same.

 

Pizza and Alanna are blue reads for me. I just see them being like this as town. The questions they're asking, the follow through...townie.

 

WTL Celeste, Pral or Csarmi. Mostly because of POE.

[Kaylee]

 

My primary WTL is Shad, Alanna, Wish and Pizza. it is most likely that not all 4 would be mafia but I think some of them are taking advantage of others to get first me and then planning on Celeste lynched. I have some thoguht that my calling of the second thing caused a change of target.

This idea you're sticking to that Wish, Pizza, and I have been trying to lynch Celeste is so out of touch with the game that I'm just kind of baffled at this point. It's almost like you chose the names arbitrarily. I didn't get to reading Pizza's ISO on her so maybe he didn't resolve as tolerantly as the impression I've gotten since, but please show me examples of where wish-tree and myself are attempting to convince players to lynch Celeste.

Wish hasn't. In fact I think the worse thing she said was somment about how she could be wrong. Even then though she comes back to say how she reads her well and doesn't think Celeste is actually scum.

 

I guess the thing about Wish that bothers me is the fact she was so convinced Celeste was town, then "well I could be wrong". I read much into that though because she still comes back to saying she thinks she's town.

[Shad_]

DUDE SERIOUSLY YOURE NOT 5 USE REAL WORDS.  LIKE IF THIS CONTINUES I WILL JUST POLICY LYNCH YOU FOR IT!!!

You've been taunting people a lot in this game.

 

Like I know it's something you do as town when you're pretty convinced you've caught a scumbag, but in this game you've been kind of slinging it around all over.

[Zander?]

 

My primary WTL is Shad, Alanna, Wish and Pizza. it is most likely that not all 4 would be mafia but I think some of them are taking advantage of others to get first me and then planning on Celeste lynched. I have some thoguht that my calling of the second thing caused a change of target.

This idea you're sticking to that Wish, Pizza, and I have been trying to lynch Celeste is so out of touch with the game that I'm just kind of baffled at this point. It's almost like you chose the names arbitrarily.  I didn't get to reading Pizza's ISO on her so maybe he didn't resolve as tolerantly as the impression I've gotten since, but please show me examples of where wish-tree and myself are attempting to convince players to lynch Celeste.

 

 

 

Pretty sure Wish beyond doubt is not trying to get Celeste lunched.

[Zander?]

 

They didnt to me hence why I asked.  Thats a good question Shad.  Why do you feel we are?  I mean we've disagreed on reads before and obv sometimes I miss stuffs but I feel like youre not talking to me enough and trying to work WITH ME like you usually do, as much this game.

I would say I'm not working 'with you' because I've pretty fundamentally disagreed with many of the things you point out.  Normally where we differ as v/v it's a matter of you seeing something scummy in behavior I find null, and sometimes you're right and I'm missing it and sometimes I'm right and you're reading too much into it, but I can usually get where you're coming from.  In this game you're raising questions and drawing conclusions that I struggle to grasp the origin of in Zandermind.

 

 

Zandermind is a magical Towny place like Valhalla when everyday we wage war against the wolves then at night those lunched come back and drink and feast and then repeat everyday!!!

 

 

GLORIOUS!!!!!

[Shad_]

 

 

How about we don't lynch Pralaya?

 

I might need some of you guys to vote with me, and if you're lynching Pralaya that won't happen.

 

If folks have already checked out of this round and I'm wasting my time let me know. But I might need some heroes in a couple hours.

 

Pizza who is your Scum reads right now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish, what are your thoughts on Celeste's reactions to getting sussed for the unvote?

just posted it :P

 

I read your mind!

 

If Celeste turns out to be scum, all eyes will be on you. How comfortable are you with your read of her?

 

all eyes will be on me anyway, heh

 

I'm feeling comfortable with my read on her because that's usually how I play games when we're together. I read her as town almost with complete accuracy. You can ask Laine/Cass.

 

If she turns out to be scum, all I can say is that I messed up. But atm, there's no reason why I should doubt my read on her.

 

Love the ohhhhh my bad out she leaves herself.....lololololololol

 

Uhhh.... I can be wrong on Penny... Did you know? I used to read her wrong every game before we hydra'd together. Then, I lynched her as town cop a few times during turbos. lol, oops!

 

I would have felt slightly better if you called Zander out here.

 

I made a subtle reference to it at the time, but I wanted to see your uninfluenced responses first.

 

Zander's been pushing a narrative which essentially implies Celeste is town. He thinks you are pocketing her.

 

But here Zander is implying that you two are w/w.

 

He's bringing up mutually exclusive points in his case on you.  It shows a lack of coherent thought.

 

 

 

Am i?

 

Im guessing this is in reference to me?  If so I dont care.  I dont need to be coherent I just need to be right.

 

You need to be coherent if you want people to believe 1) that you're town and 2) that your case has any merit.  If you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's pocketing town!Celeste" and you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's distancing from scum!Celeste", what am I supposed to take from that?

 

Can you contradict yourself while casing someone as town?  Yeah, sometimes.  I want to say you do it more as scum, though I should probably ISO for examples.  This one was pretty glaring to me.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

wish-tree

 

Go read TUS and Ragnarok and tell me I'm wrong. Remember that she was hunting for Loki as scum in Ragnarok.

 

Wish, you are my town.

 

I am willing to trust you more than anyone right now. Let's get this done.

 

WHAT??!!! Read my ISO's and talk to me Shad.

 

I read it, pretty thoroughly, have a good bit of thoughts, but I don't want to answer questions on Wish's behalf. If she comes back at you with garbage, then I'll have a lot to reconsider.

 

 

 

Okay, I hope that wasn't garbage. I thought what I wrote made perfect sense.

 

I think you did well, with one exception: you just deeply engaged an enormous volume of Zander content, and it was content directed at you. I at least tend to get pretty solid reads off of people who target me. I was a little disappointed that you did not think to conclude with how, for better or worse, all of this has colored your read on Zander.

 

 

 

She did???!!!

 

She didnt??!!

 

Shad read the thread brother...thats kinda an important thing to do imo.

 

lololololololol

 

 

I have literally no idea what you are saying in this post.

 

[Zander?]

 

then just go out on a branch with your own reasons for reads and thoughts and the like. Townies arent afraid to be wrong or sound bad nearly as often as Scum are my dear.

Well I've given my POE.

 

Csarmi, Pral, Celeste.

 

Not sure I trust Turin yet bit time will tell and I don't feel comfortable voting a claimed town PR.

 

Csarmi and Pral have been catching up ama giving thoughts, which is good. I want to wait on Pral for now since he is catching up and yes he haS a hard time as either alignment when it's busy. When he's town he's a good asset.

 

Csarmi I haven't read anything that's for me saying "he's town". Still null here could vote here. I'm torn he seems to reading correctly.

 

Celeste I'm more waiting for content to make a better read on her.

 

Wish going with the meta read Shad did ands her recent posts she's higher on null pile. I'm now leaning if one of Celeste/Wish is scum that it'd be Celeste. For lack of content. (Kinda pot and kettle).

 

I could be wrong about my read on Cass or Leno. Those I'm kinda tinfoiling on. Cass because she's fooled before and Leno could easily do the same.

 

Pizza and Alanna are blue reads for me. I just see them being like this as town. The questions they're asking, the follow through...townie.

 

WTL Celeste, Pral or Csarmi. Mostly because of POE.

 

 

 

More of this  explain things out!!!!

[Zander?]

 

DUDE SERIOUSLY YOURE NOT 5 USE REAL WORDS.  LIKE IF THIS CONTINUES I WILL JUST POLICY LYNCH YOU FOR IT!!!

You've been taunting people a lot in this game.

 

Like I know it's something you do as town when you're pretty convinced you've caught a scumbag, but in this game you've been kind of slinging it around all over.

 

 

 

Define taunting as you see it.  Salami well yes I get legit annoyed with playing mafia as was apparent in Star Wars.  And yes I do when casing Scum.  But Im not sure Ive really done it this game.  Or at least I dont feel I have.

[Kaylee]

That's what I for so far Zander. Time will show. I've given reads, I've replied to the case against me, I've commented on things as they've stood out to me.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

How about we don't lynch Pralaya?

 

I might need some of you guys to vote with me, and if you're lynching Pralaya that won't happen.

 

If folks have already checked out of this round and I'm wasting my time let me know. But I might need some heroes in a couple hours.

 

Pizza who is your Scum reads right now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish, what are your thoughts on Celeste's reactions to getting sussed for the unvote?

just posted it :P

 

I read your mind!

 

If Celeste turns out to be scum, all eyes will be on you. How comfortable are you with your read of her?

 

all eyes will be on me anyway, heh

 

I'm feeling comfortable with my read on her because that's usually how I play games when we're together. I read her as town almost with complete accuracy. You can ask Laine/Cass.

 

If she turns out to be scum, all I can say is that I messed up. But atm, there's no reason why I should doubt my read on her.

 

Love the ohhhhh my bad out she leaves herself.....lololololololol

 

Uhhh.... I can be wrong on Penny... Did you know? I used to read her wrong every game before we hydra'd together. Then, I lynched her as town cop a few times during turbos. lol, oops!

 

I would have felt slightly better if you called Zander out here.

 

I made a subtle reference to it at the time, but I wanted to see your uninfluenced responses first.

 

Zander's been pushing a narrative which essentially implies Celeste is town. He thinks you are pocketing her.

 

But here Zander is implying that you two are w/w.

 

He's bringing up mutually exclusive points in his case on you.  It shows a lack of coherent thought.

 

 

 

Am i?

 

Im guessing this is in reference to me?  If so I dont care.  I dont need to be coherent I just need to be right.

 

You need to be coherent if you want people to believe 1) that you're town and 2) that your case has any merit.  If you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's pocketing town!Celeste" and you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's distancing from scum!Celeste", what am I supposed to take from that?

 

Can you contradict yourself while casing someone as town?  Yeah, sometimes.  I want to say you do it more as scum, though I should probably ISO for examples.  This one was pretty glaring to me.

 

 

 

Shad coherent is prolly not a word people associate with my Mafia game as either alignment,  I build my case.  I make my points and thats that.  Ive said it seems like Wish is trying to pocket Celeste Im pretty sure pocketing was my exact description of it.    As for your distancing comment.  Dude I allow for the fact I can be wrong on Celeste, seeing as after I started to ISO Wish I felt it was much more likely pocketing a Townie then distancing. I replied to a comment of yours concerning that very thing man.

[Shad_]

 

 

• Turbo's matter squat completely different game style then a real game.  And as far as game solve in 10 posts, was that on your home site or a site you play on more the DM?  Because if so then not relevant as those reads very very likely Meta dependent imo.
• If its not a good idea then continuing to do so is....not a good idea....come on...like really now.
• NOTHINGS CERTAIN???!!!  Youve basically lock cleared her from the beginning....
• Yes it was a weird focus....from you....hence why I brought it up in the first place.
• You still contradicted yourself and contradictions are scummy.  Its also, like Ive mentioned not the only time you've done so this game.
• But youre not tho.  Youre an I personality playing an E type game.  That stuff sticks out as very odd....ESPECIALLY after the original comment in question!!!

1) Correct me if I'm wrong (I might be), but weren't her solid town reads precisely the two players she has meta on?  Also, do you think this business of declaring confidence in early reads is scummy as a rule, or is there something particular about the way Wish does it?

 

3) You're focusing on the "nothing's certain" statement as if she is backing off her read, but you were the one who injected absolute certainty in the first place.  Did anything about her subsequent statement feel like a retreat from her read on Celeste to you?

 

4) Personally, I think the "weird" aspect was Cass raising it a a scum tell in the first place.  Did you not find that odd?

 

6) Why do you keep injecting compliance/deviation from personality test results as town and scum tells in this game?  Do you think that is a highly reliant method for catching wolves?

 

 

1. They were but she based it off of nearly nothing, very very very early on. I do generally THAT early on.  I mean if you were Scum playing with a bunch of people you didnt really know.  What better then to try pocket those you know or those who are teammates?
2. Dude shes been Lock Clearing her but that makes a comment that allows her to be wrong.  Look back at her and all her comments concerning Celeste and tell me what Im seeing is wrong.
3. I found the whole thing odd.
4. Because it builds on my point about her saying she was more analytical and not gut read.  Like Ive mentioned its been something thats been discussed that Im looking into.  It especially helps when I have really no Meta on her some tho.

 

 

1) I ask because Sili does this in every game ever.  You know other people with this play style.

 

2) You specifically asked her how she could be absolutely certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Celeste is town.  She said she couldn't be.  What other answer could she have really given you here as either alignment?

 

4) Ok.  But you know I'm analytical as hell.  I still drop gut reads.  The contradiction you're seeing is that she has explicitly stated that she hates gut reads and yet she's employing them with confidence.  That could be an honest concern on your end.  It could even be a real scum tell.  But there's a distinct difference between sussing someone because they say x but do y and sussing someone because their personality type does not permit doing y.  In the very least you are really stretching the point here.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

• Turbo's matter squat completely different game style then a real game.  And as far as game solve in 10 posts, was that on your home site or a site you play on more the DM?  Because if so then not relevant as those reads very very likely Meta dependent imo.
• If its not a good idea then continuing to do so is....not a good idea....come on...like really now.
• NOTHINGS CERTAIN???!!!  Youve basically lock cleared her from the beginning....
• Yes it was a weird focus....from you....hence why I brought it up in the first place.
• You still contradicted yourself and contradictions are scummy.  Its also, like Ive mentioned not the only time you've done so this game.
• But youre not tho.  Youre an I personality playing an E type game.  That stuff sticks out as very odd....ESPECIALLY after the original comment in question!!!

1) Correct me if I'm wrong (I might be), but weren't her solid town reads precisely the two players she has meta on?  Also, do you think this business of declaring confidence in early reads is scummy as a rule, or is there something particular about the way Wish does it?

 

3) You're focusing on the "nothing's certain" statement as if she is backing off her read, but you were the one who injected absolute certainty in the first place.  Did anything about her subsequent statement feel like a retreat from her read on Celeste to you?

 

4) Personally, I think the "weird" aspect was Cass raising it a a scum tell in the first place.  Did you not find that odd?

 

6) Why do you keep injecting compliance/deviation from personality test results as town and scum tells in this game?  Do you think that is a highly reliant method for catching wolves?

 

 

1. They were but she based it off of nearly nothing, very very very early on. I do generally THAT early on.  I mean if you were Scum playing with a bunch of people you didnt really know.  What better then to try pocket those you know or those who are teammates?
2. Dude shes been Lock Clearing her but that makes a comment that allows her to be wrong.  Look back at her and all her comments concerning Celeste and tell me what Im seeing is wrong.
3. I found the whole thing odd.
4. Because it builds on my point about her saying she was more analytical and not gut read.  Like Ive mentioned its been something thats been discussed that Im looking into.  It especially helps when I have really no Meta on her some tho.

 

 

1) I ask because Sili does this in every game ever.  You know other people with this play style.

 

2) You specifically asked her how she could be absolutely certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Celeste is town.  She said she couldn't be.  What other answer could she have really given you here as either alignment?

 

4) Ok.  But you know I'm analytical as hell.  I still drop gut reads.  The contradiction you're seeing is that she has explicitly stated that she hates gut reads and yet she's employing them with confidence.  That could be an honest concern on your end.  It could even be a real scum tell.  But there's a distinct difference between sussing someone because they say x but do y and sussing someone because their personality type does not permit doing y.  In the very least you are really stretching the point here.

 

 

 

1. Yes he does.  I feel you can tell Sili does this stuff more as a joke where Wish is confident and afterwards trying to back it up.
2. I dunno I figured Id ask and see what she came back with.  She's the one who was Lock Cleared her, Im trying to press her on it cause I dont believe as Town she does it that quickly.
3. Thats called an opinion and youre entitled to it brother.  You know I pick up on things like that and I tend to be right just as much if not more often then not.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

How about we don't lynch Pralaya?

 

I might need some of you guys to vote with me, and if you're lynching Pralaya that won't happen.

 

If folks have already checked out of this round and I'm wasting my time let me know. But I might need some heroes in a couple hours.

 

Pizza who is your Scum reads right now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish, what are your thoughts on Celeste's reactions to getting sussed for the unvote?

just posted it :P

 

I read your mind!

 

If Celeste turns out to be scum, all eyes will be on you. How comfortable are you with your read of her?

 

all eyes will be on me anyway, heh

 

I'm feeling comfortable with my read on her because that's usually how I play games when we're together. I read her as town almost with complete accuracy. You can ask Laine/Cass.

 

If she turns out to be scum, all I can say is that I messed up. But atm, there's no reason why I should doubt my read on her.

 

Love the ohhhhh my bad out she leaves herself.....lololololololol

 

Uhhh.... I can be wrong on Penny... Did you know? I used to read her wrong every game before we hydra'd together. Then, I lynched her as town cop a few times during turbos. lol, oops!

 

I would have felt slightly better if you called Zander out here.

 

I made a subtle reference to it at the time, but I wanted to see your uninfluenced responses first.

 

Zander's been pushing a narrative which essentially implies Celeste is town. He thinks you are pocketing her.

 

But here Zander is implying that you two are w/w.

 

He's bringing up mutually exclusive points in his case on you.  It shows a lack of coherent thought.

 

 

 

Am i?

 

Im guessing this is in reference to me?  If so I dont care.  I dont need to be coherent I just need to be right.

 

You need to be coherent if you want people to believe 1) that you're town and 2) that your case has any merit.  If you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's pocketing town!Celeste" and you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's distancing from scum!Celeste", what am I supposed to take from that?

 

Can you contradict yourself while casing someone as town?  Yeah, sometimes.  I want to say you do it more as scum, though I should probably ISO for examples.  This one was pretty glaring to me.

 

 

Shad coherent is prolly not a word people associate with my Mafia game as either alignment,  I build my case.  I make my points and thats that.  Ive said it seems like Wish is trying to pocket Celeste Im pretty sure pocketing was my exact description of it.    As for your distancing comment.  Dude I allow for the fact I can be wrong on Celeste, seeing as after I started to ISO Wish I felt it was much more likely pocketing a Townie then distancing. I replied to a comment of yours concerning that very thing man.

 

I don't want to split hairs here, but look, I recognize that the majority of your issues pertaining specifically to Wish's treatment of Celeste conclude on scum pocketing town.  And I recognize that if you are town, you might still have some lingering concern that you are wrong in this regard and it's w/w.  But if I'm convinced Wish is pocketing town!Celeste and then I see a point towards the contrary, my reaction is to stop and wonder if I'm wrong.  Maybe not even wrong on Wish being scum, if I'm firmly convicted, but wrong on the reasons Wish is scum, and wrong on Celeste.  This would be on my mind.  It would color what I say in relation to the post in question.  You simply pointed to it and said "look, more proof of how scummy Wish is!!!"