[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Kaylee]

 

Been trying to reread the past 10 pages or so but it's just not happening.

too distracted tonight. I'll just have to do a bigger reread after night falls I think.

 

 

 

 

Pral is absent.

I'm fine with a lynch on an inactive but that's all that is.

Csarmi is almost in the same bag.

No idea why Lenlo is on your list.

I've been distant so this makes sense I guess, I don't want to be lynched though please.

And Kaylee I don't have many notes on but she's positive for me so dunno what you found lynchworthy.

 

Nolder. I don't want to lynch an inactive like Pral. Give him to tomorrow and let him give us a reason to lynch him. Otherwise, we're going into tomorrow without the information of why people voted in this lynch. IRT Kaylee, she doesn't feel invested in her reads to me. I think that is deserving of having her in the POE at this point. I think Wish is noting the same thing in #1300?

/stop top of 66

See, that's the thing, and maybe you're sincere about it but it's always "tomorrow" with too many people.

It just never ends up happening which is why I tend not to bother in most games anymore.

It only leads to accusations of me being scum going for an easy lynch.

 

I don't object to anyone having Kaylee in a POE for lynch but she's not in mine.

I'm pretty sure it's just "tomorrow" with Celeste if she doesn't improve and tomorrow with Pral because there's not enough info yet.

What the heck is that in the bold underlined? What are you trying to do there?

 

Okay, so get this. Let's say we have a player that hasn't done anything all of day 1. We can't read them. There is a chance they are mafia. There is a chance they are town. They are more likely town than mafia, because let's face it: town outnumbers mafia. Why would you NOT give that person more time to prove themselves one way or another and just lynch them because there's a CHANCE they're mafia? Additionally, you lynch that inactive. They flip town. Now you have people that voted that inactive because they're unknown and scary and blah blah blah. What info are you gaining from that as opposed to lynching someone who has been contributing and has reads on other players and has interacted, etc?

 

I don't know about you, but I think it is more beneficial for the town to not lynch an inactive player d1 due to the loss of information and the potential that they're just an easy mislynch. Go ahead and lynch Pral if you like, I'm not going to stop you, but I'm not going to help you either. Those are just my thoughts.

 

Now, what I'm NOT saying, is let an inactive last until endgame. DO NOT DO THAT. THEY WILL SINK THE TOWN. But at least give them to day 2 so we can get more information on them so that when we DO have to lynch them, it creates a little more information for us than blindly lynching d1.

And this moves Alanna up to dark green, half blue. Don't see her making this statement as scum. I also agree which is why I'm hesitant to vote just yet. Besides, there's no rush we have time yet.

[Kaylee]

 

Okay i dont really know how to proceed here. I got about 2x1 hour to play this daily while i am commuting. With 80 pages any comprehensive read is off. Have my early game comments been useful at least?

 

No. I want to lynch you.

 

Tell me why I shouldn't.

I'm here as well

[Zander?]

 

 

Shad's tinfoil sensors wonder about a Pizza/Celeste/Kaylee trio.

 

I don't know why I let myself post these things.

I dont see the connection that puts them TOGETHER can you share what made you think that.

 

Townies arent afraid to post any thoughts or comments brother!!!!

 

It is the rule of three: If a mafioso posts a list of mafia reads it is likely there is ONE that really is mafia. I think he did this two times. I was hoping to see both to compare. (these would be used only with a mafia flip of shad or a listed person that seemed to be connected to shad)

 

 

 

Turin can you tell me what youre seeing irt Shad?  Like even a bullet point list or something please.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Pralaya, I understand you're still catching up, but something still bothers me about you.

 

No one else has read Turin as town based on his posting within the first 20ish or so pages. How are you doing this?

 

This may be just my paranoia, but it seems to me that it's easier to look at his hardclaim and then read everyone else in relation to that hardclaim.

 

Maybe because I have played with Turin more than most of the people in this game? I have been mason with him, have been mafia with him and I have a general sense of his game

 

Maybe because I don't see the same things that other people see. Like I had Nolder, Cory as scum in the Matrix game when everyone had them as town. 

 

Can I prove that I didn't encounter the hardclaim when I posted? I cannot. I didn't see it when I gave my reads and that is all I can say.

 

 

Dont mind the first line.

 

Nolder wasnt Scum in Matrix.

 

Last line is kinda Meh.  Its why I asked Pral about his read on Turin.

 

Heh, I meant you, not Nolder. Your name rhymes, you know.

 

 

 

They kinda do....lololololol

 

Pral where are you in your catch up?

 

Like to see some reads and reasoning and some more thoughts.  Youre the lead wagon.  Nows the time to prove if youre Town brother!!

[Zander?]

I caught up to page 50. Good lord, this is getting hard. 35 more to go? Doubt I will be able to read full before deadline.

 

I still have Kaylee and Len as scum.

 

I liked Shad's reasoning about Celeste being town because of Wish's comments on her. I don't think wish/celeste is w/w at all.

 

 

Why Kay and Len?

[Zander?]

 

You seemed to trust my meta read on Wish earlier, at least to an extent.  What made it compelling in your opinion?

The fact that you took the time to read other games to get it. I'm torn on her because as Alanna said I too like how she's been responding regarding Zander. Put that with your meta read on her makes me think she's less likely scum. That leaves Celeste whom I rather give time to tell, Csarmi, Pral who's gaining traction (still want to hear from him though) as POE and Wish less likely. I won't vote Zander, Pizza, Shad, or Turin (due to the claim).

 

Pral I really want to answer about how he felt Turin was town telling when it wasn't seen by anyone else at that point.

 

Leno, Cass and Alanna I still feel as town though they have the best ability to fool me. Alanna esp is just really coming from a town POV and I don't see it being her.

 

Nol recently has been sounding town to me as well so thinking it's not likely him either.

 

 

 

Kay my personal biggest concern with you irt to youre reads is me.  I dont think youve ever seen me Scum before.  Why do you think players like Shad, Pizza and Alanna for example are putting the effort and or not giving me a lazy Town read is...BECAUSE THEYVE SEEN ME SCUM.  They know how I can replicate my Town game pretty damn well!!!!

 

I dont see how you can do that so easily my dear, like at all.  Also the same with Pizza who is a GOAT player and can pull almost anything out of his bag of tricks as either alignment.  Like Im not sure but have you played with him before?

[Kaylee]

I found something really really interesting about Kaylee.

 

I think it's actually something that will completely turn this round around. I think she might be completely caught, and when I explain it, it will be tough for anyone to disagree with the point.

 

It's so ridiculously simple and it's EVERYWHERE in her posting. It's not an isolated wierd incident it's her entire play to date.

 

But before I fire all my lazars, I need help on something:

 

Who here has played with Kaylee a lot? Do you remember a recent villager game of hers?

 

I need to make sure what I'm seeing isn't just Kaylee's.... normal way of doing things.

 

This is so fundamental that I will seriously only need to check one villager game of hers real quick to see if there's a difference.

 

If there is, she's completely caught.

Except I'm town. Let me ask you this... If I'm lynched and flip town, which i will, what then? Who will then be in your pool?

[Zander?]

Ok im caught up.

 

Need to ISO Kay today for sure. 

Need to see more from Pral

Csarmi is pinging me would like to ISO but I want help here as I think I just wanna read him scummy after Star Wars still....lololololol jk but kinda not....

 

And btw....still say Wish the best option today

[Kaylee]

I will give +10 villager points to the first person who does an ISO on Kaylee and spots the pattern that should not exist from a villager.

 

Plus ten, guys.

 

Look for me please. This is a request to all present.

Given up on finding scum and now trying to get me lynched?

 

Be prepared to be wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing what you "found". At best it'll prove D1 is tough for me as town.

[Kaylee]

 

I will give +10 villager points to the first person who does an ISO on Kaylee and spots the pattern that should not exist from a villager.

 

Plus ten, guys.

 

Look for me please. This is a request to all present.

 

I looked at her earlier and noticed a lack of interest in her posts, but I'll go take a second look to see if I see something else

There is no lack of interest! I'm reading, posting, commenting and making reads as best as I.

[Kaylee]

 

Everyone in thread right now, give me 1-3 WTL for today

 

Kaylee

 

I have other suspects, but reasons to hold off on each of them.

Ok this I can understand and even respect. I know I've been off and even I'm having a hard time on who to vote.

[Kaylee]

@Pizza Is it her saying fair enough and not really having a stance on much. (Bah I should be asleep)

If so that's not a good one as I do that as either alignment... Speaking to the fair enough part. I have taken a stance on a lot actually so no. Please continue as this will be telling.

[Zander?]

 

I will give +10 villager points to the first person who does an ISO on Kaylee and spots the pattern that should not exist from a villager.

 

Plus ten, guys.

 

Look for me please. This is a request to all present.

Given up on finding scum and now trying to get me lynched?

 

Be prepared to be wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing what you "found". At best it'll prove D1 is tough for me as town.

 

 

 

thats just a bad comment

[Kaylee]

Use the time, don't rush it.

 

It would only be obvious to someone who ISO's only Kaylee for a while, and even then, we're talking about limited values of obvious but it's a real pattern.

 

Does it mean Kaylee is always scum? No- but it probably means she is.

 

And like I said, I need to check a recent town game of hers to confirm it's an entirely different process from her.

 

If it isn't, it may be null, but I'm still going to give a fellow villager a ton of town points for spotting it before I say it, so this is still worthwhile.

House of Cards that Shad linked is my most recent torn game. You're now sounding less sure of yourself.

[Kaylee]

 

It has to be the same pattern I spotted.

 

 

She included herself in her own wtl at one point if I read the post correctly, and said at least twice that she didn't mind eating it today iirc.  /shrug

I didn't say I was wtl myself. I said I could understand it, meaning i know I'm not an obvious townie, but hell I'm trying

[Kaylee]

See that can just be her way, regardless of alignment.

 

What I'm seeing is not how a villager thinks, at least, not 99% of them.

Except for me apparently. The thing is, I still think you're town. Misguided but town.

[Kaylee]

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

Thank you that at least someone sees that I'm town.

[Kaylee]

 

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

 

 

Then I definitely want to hear more from you after this part is done.

 

If you know Kaylee, you should be able to tell me after the reveal if it's rampant werewolf disease or completely normal Kaylee.

Still not a wolf. Actually I've been trying to as transparent as possible. I've kept emotions out for the most part and that's unlike me.

[wish-tree]

Hello, I am here and have caught up (read everything). Currently am on mobile so cannot multiquote.

 

Okay, so it looks like people don't want to lynch Pralaya today. Is it to give him a chance as an inactive?

 

And irt Zander/Turin accusations about me: one being that I haven't been actually analyzing Celeste off her actual post content... It's because I can't really do that if she doesn't make post content. I can definitely go and ISO her, and this sounds like something you will not swallow, but I do not see the need to when I can read her off her first few posts. I've not been wrong about her town game in a long time. You can believe this or not. Unless I get a cookie and a pat on the head, there's no need to do this.

Zander accusations I've already addressed. Several times, over and over again.

[wish-tree]

About Kaylee: I'll go and ISO her. Her current behavior in thread (saying we're wrong and misguided) is not doing anything to make me feel better about her.

 

Csarmi is making effort to catch up, I quite like it.

[wish-tree]

Will return after going back to sleep and breakfast.

Also, people who have accused me (Zander/Turin), why do you refuse to read my past games that I've linked?

 

And Shad, will reply to what you've said earlier; however, it looks like past me has already addressed one of your questions/comments. Present me will do the rest. :D

[Kaylee]

This is a little frustrating. I'm seeing a lot of town leans, like Pizza, Cass, Lenlo, Shad, but then a tone of nulls/I don't know how to read them like Celeste, Wish, Turin, Nolder, Csarmi. Absolutely no scum reads. She votes Turin right after Pizza pushes for him to reveal and promptly unvotes after his claim even though she had said she was unsure about him. She seems highly focused on Wish and Celeste and is extremely wishy washy about it and doesn't really act on how she feels. I see her saying she'll leave but then coming back into the thread or appearing when her name is mentioned (which I'm not condemning anyone for, I skim for my name too lol).

 

One thing I did notice is that she's asking her "unsure/null" reads who we should lynch today as if she's town reading them. That makes no sense to me and her own WTL is just town consensus, including herself.

 

Two/three(?) posts stuck out to me:

 

Cass: From what I know he'll give content either way. It's the approach that changes. He'll care more about how he's coming across, choose words more carefully correct typos... As mafia.

I don't see that here. He's trying something new, he's making his thoughts known and being active. Still getting town vibes.

 

The wording on the top line makes me think she's already decided he's town. That add on "as mafia" is extremely awkward there.

 

 

Csarmi: why should we not lynch you today?

Wish is the only other train, besides Pral, that has more than one vote.

Turin: why should Wish be the lynch today? Has he recent posts changed your view of her?

I'd ask Zander but I think I have his thoughts on the matter already.

 

Pretty sure Csarmi is a null or scum lean (?) at this point because she said he was in WTL. I don't understand that last line about Zander, though.

 

 

I don't want to rush a lynch. Looks like Wish, Celeste, Kaylee, and Csarmi are who everyone's recently talked about lynching. I'd go Nol too.

What are cases thoughts on these? Who should be lynched? I'm looking for more reason than POE.

 

^this is her asking for work and not providing stances herself. Why throw Nolder in there if she doesn't already have a case on him?

You're first part is just how I work. Sorry it's not perfect, but hey it's how I operate. If I have scum reads D1 that's rare.

 

Asking my unsures who we should lynch was to see what they said. The answers could've help me read them better.

 

The first quote was me explaining his meta. Adding the ad mafia was just saying that is what he does as mafia. I wasn't seeing that so yes I was leaning town on him.

 

Yes Csarmi was null and in my wtl. The line about Zander was me asking those on the other train why we should vote with them. Zander had made his view clear.

 

Last quote: Nol was in there yes I'd explained why already. No I didn't have a case against him. I was thinking he might be on his scum meta but have since changed my mind. I lost, still am, and was asking who people thought we should lynch with reasons other than POE. Had it been answered I might've been able to sort my nulls better. Either by their answers or what others said about them.

[Kaylee]

Pizza I don't do well when being rushed to think quickly. I don't even know if I hit on anything, but i DO know that something feels off. Her posts have no conviction in them at all and that just doesn't feel right to me and makes her ISO hard to read, which I've mentioned before

Men it's how I work. I find those I can trust first. If something stands out our if I think I found scum then I'm convicted. Otherwise I'm in no rush to lynch anyone.

[Kaylee]

 

Pralaya, I understand you're still catching up, but something still bothers me about you.

 

No one else has read Turin as town based on his posting within the first 20ish or so pages. How are you doing this?

 

This may be just my paranoia, but it seems to me that it's easier to look at his hardclaim and then read everyone else in relation to that hardclaim.

 

 

Maybe because I have played with Turin more than most of the people in this game? I have been mason with him, have been mafia with him and I have a general sense of his game

 

Maybe because I don't see the same things that other people see. Like I had Nolder, Cory as scum in the Matrix game when everyone had them as town. 

 

Can I prove that I didn't encounter the hardclaim when I posted? I cannot. I didn't see it when I gave my reads and that is all I can say.

Thanks for answering that. That makes sense.

[Kaylee]

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

 

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

 

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

 

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

 

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

 

 

• Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

 

 

Compare with other villagers in this game. While most of us have strong town reads we haven't been diligent in re-examining, I don't believe we simply went "yep, you're a villager.... yep, you are.... yes, you are.... you're a villager.... you're a villager..." and had little difficulty arriving there.

 

For someone who describes herself as usually struggling day one, her villager list and the process of creating it looks entirely politically motivated and reveals not much in the way of solving from a perspective of not being in the know.

 

This should be extremely easy to compare to another Kaylee game where she's town. My premise is that if she's a villager, she's going to have greater difficulty getting those villager reads in her villaging game, and some of those reads should reverse during the course of the first day. I think I should be able to see a difference.

 

If this is null, I'll find out and/or you guys are going to tell me that it is.

 

The bottom line is that she's giving off the general appearance of village solving, but I don't think it is, because the process looks improbably even and too easy for someone who is "struggling". Compare and contrast with Celeste.

 

 

Minor stuffs:

 

 

 

There's other negative indicators, such as the fact that generally, she's behaving much like Besie was in the previous game, playing the role of the peaceful mediator type.

 

That can just be her normal personality, but she's taken it up to 11 this game.

 

And she was kind of awkward around the time that Turin posed the question about if not Turin, who dies today. "Maybe Nolder", and then, "Csarmi then" when I deliberately copycatted Alanna's Csarmi and Kaylee response to who to kill today besides Turin.

 

This section is the minor stuff which can be dealt with separately. The main point is the major problem and means -20 points if it's esablished to be different from her normal behavior.

 

 

I'll post the actual work in a minute. Just wanted to make my main points read-able.

That's just how I play. I find those I trust and can clear. I'm not good at D1, I sheep those I'm sure are town and am seldom "sure" of my scum leans. Unless someone has been, in my pinion, scummy then I'm not sure and it shows.

 

I've done my best to show that I'm a townie, that's all I can really do. Sorry it's not obvious.