[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question: What was "I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad" in reference to?

 

It was a continuation of this thought:

 

I'll be more worried later on if he hasn't caught any scum. I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad.

 

Basically, I expect you and Zander to find scum. If we keep going and you haven't caught any, I'm going to turn on you.

 

 

I feel like i already have tho....sadface.gif.

 

But what Im not a fan of is you putting the emphasis to do so on us and away from you!!!

 

TOWN!ALANNA FINDS SCUM WITH ME!!!!!!!

 

HEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPP ME HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPP YOU REKKKKKKKTTTTTT WOOOLLLLLVVVVVVEEEEEESSSSS!!!!!

 

Zander I don't know how to tell you this but

 

 

I think Alanna might just be minority village

 

 

[Zander?]

 

 

Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

 

 

 

haha, I had the same reaction, don't hate this post but I don't actually believe it's a slip.

 

 

 

lololololololol.

[Turin Turambar]

 

Shad's tinfoil sensors wonder about a Pizza/Celeste/Kaylee trio.

 

I don't know why I let myself post these things.

I dont see the connection that puts them TOGETHER can you share what made you think that.

 

Townies arent afraid to post any thoughts or comments brother!!!!

 

It is the rule of three: If a mafioso posts a list of mafia reads it is likely there is ONE that really is mafia. I think he did this two times. I was hoping to see both to compare. (these would be used only with a mafia flip of shad or a listed person that seemed to be connected to shad)

[Zander?]

Okay i dont really know how to proceed here. I got about 2x1 hour to play this daily while i am commuting. With 80 pages any comprehensive read is off. Have my early game comments been useful at least?

 

NO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Family time. So 

 

Hardclaim: Alexstrsza- Town Doctor

 

I won't be back in thread until tomorrow sometime. Unless I can sneak a few minutes here or there.

Ok so I just want to say that NORMALLY my position is that claims (especially on D1 and especially under pressure) don't matter.

If you were suspicious of someone a claim should not change your position.

 

That said, in this specific case I believe Turin.

I'll even says he's at -0.5 in my notes right now.

 

So for what it's worth to anyone I believe this claim is legit.

 

 

Why isn't Turin towntelling better?

 

Sorry?

 

Ummm I don't know....maybe he's busy I guess?

Seems like a question for him not me.

 

I'm asking you because you have him negative right now but you believe his claim. He's done nothing to show he's town. Even if someone is busy, they can town tell in the few posts they're able to have. It's not the effort that someone puts in, it's how they do it when they are around.

 

 

Alanna your original question still makes no sense imo my dear.  And this response still doesnt make anything about it any clearer or better.

 

Both of Laine's posts made perfect sense to me. Why are we so out of sync in this game?

 

 

They didnt to me hence why I asked.  Thats a good question Shad.  Why do you feel we are?  I mean we've disagreed on reads before and obv sometimes I miss stuffs but I feel like youre not talking to me enough and trying to work WITH ME like you usually do, as much this game. 

[Zander?]

I think Zander is town too and i really like this post from Laine up on the page.

 

No i cant really tell why with Zander except his approach to me i would expect to be different if wolf.

 

Laine feels genuine here.

 

This feels like one of those posts that scum tend to post.....like just for the sake of posting imo.  My only trepidation is the fact that its Salami and well I dont understand how to speak nor understand Samlamiese

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Family time. So 

 

Hardclaim: Alexstrsza- Town Doctor

 

I won't be back in thread until tomorrow sometime. Unless I can sneak a few minutes here or there.

Ok so I just want to say that NORMALLY my position is that claims (especially on D1 and especially under pressure) don't matter.

If you were suspicious of someone a claim should not change your position.

 

That said, in this specific case I believe Turin.

I'll even says he's at -0.5 in my notes right now.

 

So for what it's worth to anyone I believe this claim is legit.

 

 

Why isn't Turin towntelling better?

 

Sorry?

 

Ummm I don't know....maybe he's busy I guess?

Seems like a question for him not me.

 

I'm asking you because you have him negative right now but you believe his claim. He's done nothing to show he's town. Even if someone is busy, they can town tell in the few posts they're able to have. It's not the effort that someone puts in, it's how they do it when they are around.

 

 

Alanna your original question still makes no sense imo my dear.  And this response still doesnt make anything about it any clearer or better.

 

Both of Laine's posts made perfect sense to me. Why are we so out of sync in this game?

 

^ this is why Zander is kind of worrying me :/

 

 

fwiw I would think....that you would think....that Scum!Zander would be much more likely to just agree with and pocket you.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Okay i dont really know how to proceed here. I got about 2x1 hour to play this daily while i am commuting. With 80 pages any comprehensive read is off. Have my early game comments been useful at least?

No. I want to lynch you.

 

Tell me why I shouldn't.

Cause i am a villager and you dont like lynching villagers.

 

GIVE ME PROOF. SHOW ME READS. FFS CSARMI GIVE ME SOMETHING MORE TO WORK WITH THAN SCATTERED CONFUSING READS THROUGHOUT THE THREAD THAT LOOK MORE YOLO THAN ANYTHING, DUDE.

 

 

 

I love Alannnnnnaaaaaa soooooooooooooooooooo much!!!!!!!!

[Zander?]

 

Okay i dont really know how to proceed here. I got about 2x1 hour to play this daily while i am commuting. With 80 pages any comprehensive read is off. Have my early game comments been useful at least?

I think you're town. Pretty sure no one else is above null on you. /shrug

 

 

When I asked why you started Town reading Salami like from the very beginning you responded with something like Town Better/Harder...Id like you to elaborate on that please.  If I missed it Im sorry but humor me please.

 

I will explain tomorrow once I wake up. Pretty exhausted from mafia already.

 

This is not the first random post of your that I have no idea what its in reference to,  Please quote sometimes so it can help with reading you.

 

 

 

Okay i dont really know how to proceed here. I got about 2x1 hour to play this daily while i am commuting. With 80 pages any comprehensive read is off. Have my early game comments been useful at least?

 

Lol no.

 

Moar, Csarmi. Whatever you can.

Wont lie to you. I feel frozen. Despite what some peoples impr3ssions could be that i just post carefree and stuff and dont bother and feel good about that even when half into the game only... I dont. I just really dont know what to do. I have vague impressions but i cant r3ally do much without reading all and now that would tak3 me 4 hours a day.

 

I will try tye 2hateve4 but i dont like playing bad.

 

 

DUDE SERIOUSLY YOURE NOT 5 USE REAL WORDS.  LIKE IF THIS CONTINUES I WILL JUST POLICY LYNCH YOU FOR IT!!!

[Zander?]

 

 

Town wish: I think Joe is towny because a b and c and I think Steve is scummy because x y and z and I can tell you from experience Frank will do m and n under pressure and...

 

Scum wish: *POING* *POING* ME WANT CANDY *POING*

 

Unfortunately, this is true. I have a weird switch when I'm scum. It makes me mercilessly want to tease other people and mess with their minds.

 

I can strongly relate to this.

 

 

insert lolcatting.gif

 

 

 

Pralaya is town.

 

His approach is genuine. His reads and the way he forme them is how i would exp3ct Pray to be. And he dont give a sh#t about perception.

I kind of think so too but I've been burned before by accepting piecemeal catchups.

I really want him to go all the way and get involved in the game.

 

LOLOLOLOLOL OMG THIS IS GREAT

 

"I WANT HIM TO GET INVOLVED IN THE GAME BUT LOL LET ME LYNCH HIM TODAY BECAUSE THAT'S REALLYYYY GONNA HELP GET HIM INVOLVEDDD" HAHHAA OMG I JUST DIED

 

 

I thought the exact same thing!!!

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Zander?]

How about we don't lynch Pralaya?

 

I might need some of you guys to vote with me, and if you're lynching Pralaya that won't happen.

 

If folks have already checked out of this round and I'm wasting my time let me know. But I might need some heroes in a couple hours.

 

Pizza who is your Scum reads right now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish, what are your thoughts on Celeste's reactions to getting sussed for the unvote?

just posted it :P

 

I read your mind!

 

If Celeste turns out to be scum, all eyes will be on you. How comfortable are you with your read of her?

 

all eyes will be on me anyway, heh

 

I'm feeling comfortable with my read on her because that's usually how I play games when we're together. I read her as town almost with complete accuracy. You can ask Laine/Cass.

 

If she turns out to be scum, all I can say is that I messed up. But atm, there's no reason why I should doubt my read on her.

 

Love the ohhhhh my bad out she leaves herself.....lololololololol

 

Uhhh.... I can be wrong on Penny... Did you know? I used to read her wrong every game before we hydra'd together. Then, I lynched her as town cop a few times during turbos. lol, oops!

 

I would have felt slightly better if you called Zander out here.

 

I made a subtle reference to it at the time, but I wanted to see your uninfluenced responses first.

 

Zander's been pushing a narrative which essentially implies Celeste is town. He thinks you are pocketing her.

 

But here Zander is implying that you two are w/w.

 

He's bringing up mutually exclusive points in his case on you.  It shows a lack of coherent thought.

 

 

 

Am i?

 

Im guessing this is in reference to me?  If so I dont care.  I dont need to be coherent I just need to be right.

[Zander?]

The point is that we should be able to count on fellow town members to be here when we need them. If they can't do that, or are scum, we should lynch them. But FFS, let them get caught up and give them a chance first, please.

 

prolly a post Town!Alanna makes.  Cause jumping on inactives is a pretty easy thing for Scum to do on D1.

 

 

I found something really really interesting about Kaylee.

 

I think it's actually something that will completely turn this round around. I think she might be completely caught, and when I explain it, it will be tough for anyone to disagree with the point.

 

It's so ridiculously simple and it's EVERYWHERE in her posting. It's not an isolated wierd incident it's her entire play to date.

 

But before I fire all my lazars, I need help on something:

 

Who here has played with Kaylee a lot? Do you remember a recent villager game of hers?

 

I need to make sure what I'm seeing isn't just Kaylee's.... normal way of doing things.

 

This is so fundamental that I will seriously only need to check one villager game of hers real quick to see if there's a difference.

 

If there is, she's completely caught.

 

 

Only played with her in Frozen (she was Scum) I believe unless she was in one of my first couple games and i dont remember.

 

Look forward to seeing this.  Kays been sliding down for me lately.

[Zander?]

oven baked*

 

spelling is hard.

 

VOUCH

 

as are:

 

#themaths

#thewords

#thetypings

 

 

Can I put Nolder on ignore now?

 

NO

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

wish-tree

 

Go read TUS and Ragnarok and tell me I'm wrong. Remember that she was hunting for Loki as scum in Ragnarok.

 

Wish, you are my town.

 

I am willing to trust you more than anyone right now. Let's get this done.

 

WHAT??!!! Read my ISO's and talk to me Shad.

 

I read it, pretty thoroughly, have a good bit of thoughts, but I don't want to answer questions on Wish's behalf. If she comes back at you with garbage, then I'll have a lot to reconsider.

 

 

 

Okay, I hope that wasn't garbage. I thought what I wrote made perfect sense.

 

I think you did well, with one exception: you just deeply engaged an enormous volume of Zander content, and it was content directed at you. I at least tend to get pretty solid reads off of people who target me. I was a little disappointed that you did not think to conclude with how, for better or worse, all of this has colored your read on Zander.

 

 

 

She did???!!!

 

She didnt??!!

 

Shad read the thread brother...thats kinda an important thing to do imo.

 

lololololololol

[Zander?]

 

• Turbo's matter squat completely different game style then a real game.  And as far as game solve in 10 posts, was that on your home site or a site you play on more the DM?  Because if so then not relevant as those reads very very likely Meta dependent imo.
• If its not a good idea then continuing to do so is....not a good idea....come on...like really now.
• NOTHINGS CERTAIN???!!!  Youve basically lock cleared her from the beginning....
• Yes it was a weird focus....from you....hence why I brought it up in the first place.
• You still contradicted yourself and contradictions are scummy.  Its also, like Ive mentioned not the only time you've done so this game.
• But youre not tho.  Youre an I personality playing an E type game.  That stuff sticks out as very odd....ESPECIALLY after the original comment in question!!!

1) Correct me if I'm wrong (I might be), but weren't her solid town reads precisely the two players she has meta on?  Also, do you think this business of declaring confidence in early reads is scummy as a rule, or is there something particular about the way Wish does it?

 

3) You're focusing on the "nothing's certain" statement as if she is backing off her read, but you were the one who injected absolute certainty in the first place.  Did anything about her subsequent statement feel like a retreat from her read on Celeste to you?

 

4) Personally, I think the "weird" aspect was Cass raising it a a scum tell in the first place.  Did you not find that odd?

 

6) Why do you keep injecting compliance/deviation from personality test results as town and scum tells in this game?  Do you think that is a highly reliant method for catching wolves?

 

 

1. They were but she based it off of nearly nothing, very very very early on. I do generally THAT early on.  I mean if you were Scum playing with a bunch of people you didnt really know.  What better then to try pocket those you know or those who are teammates?
2. Dude shes been Lock Clearing her but that makes a comment that allows her to be wrong.  Look back at her and all her comments concerning Celeste and tell me what Im seeing is wrong.
3. I found the whole thing odd.
4. Because it builds on my point about her saying she was more analytical and not gut read.  Like Ive mentioned its been something thats been discussed that Im looking into.  It especially helps when I have really no Meta on her some tho.

[Zander?]

 

Pralaya, I understand you're still catching up, but something still bothers me about you.

 

No one else has read Turin as town based on his posting within the first 20ish or so pages. How are you doing this?

 

This may be just my paranoia, but it seems to me that it's easier to look at his hardclaim and then read everyone else in relation to that hardclaim.

 

Maybe because I have played with Turin more than most of the people in this game? I have been mason with him, have been mafia with him and I have a general sense of his game

 

Maybe because I don't see the same things that other people see. Like I had Nolder, Cory as scum in the Matrix game when everyone had them as town. 

 

Can I prove that I didn't encounter the hardclaim when I posted? I cannot. I didn't see it when I gave my reads and that is all I can say.

 

 

Dont mind the first line.

 

Nolder wasnt Scum in Matrix.

 

Last line is kinda Meh.  Its why I asked Pral about his read on Turin.

[Zander?]

 

• I completely disagree.  I think its quite relevant and your dismissal of it is telling imo.
• Ok this is YET ANOTHER CONTRADICTION FROM YOU....you said you pegged the entire GAME for SPEC CHAT!!!!  No one interacted with you there now did they Lenny!!!!  BBBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
• See above response.
• Dont throw big words at me to try and confuse me!!!!  lololololololol
• Ive touched on the excuses part more then enough this game.  Add that to everything else Ive brought up you i feel it certainly is telling.

Second point isn't bad at all. You get a cookie.

 

For the first one, you raised the same point repeatedly. She addressed it once. Was there something more to this one that you feel she's dismissing?

 

 

 

It had better be chocolate chip ldo.

 

It bringing it up repeatedly cause its a pattern Ive been seeing.  Patterns are usually telling imo.  I dont like anything i bring up in my cases to be dismissed.  That crap dont fly with Zander.

[Pralaya]

 

 

Pralaya, I understand you're still catching up, but something still bothers me about you.

 

No one else has read Turin as town based on his posting within the first 20ish or so pages. How are you doing this?

 

This may be just my paranoia, but it seems to me that it's easier to look at his hardclaim and then read everyone else in relation to that hardclaim.

 

Maybe because I have played with Turin more than most of the people in this game? I have been mason with him, have been mafia with him and I have a general sense of his game

 

Maybe because I don't see the same things that other people see. Like I had Nolder, Cory as scum in the Matrix game when everyone had them as town. 

 

Can I prove that I didn't encounter the hardclaim when I posted? I cannot. I didn't see it when I gave my reads and that is all I can say.

 

 

Dont mind the first line.

 

Nolder wasnt Scum in Matrix.

 

Last line is kinda Meh.  Its why I asked Pral about his read on Turin.

 

Heh, I meant you, not Nolder. Your name rhymes, you know.

[Zander?]

 

I've lost three years of my life waiting for you pizza

 

Aww, you're sweet, but you have a wonderful boyfriend and I'm with Sooh.

 

wakka wakka wakka

 

 

 

i legit lololololol'd in rl

 

 

Re-read to 50 with notes, skimmed forward some from my last post. Going out for a few hours but here's roughly where I'm at:

 

 

4. Turin* 

 

Town

 

1. Shad

8. Leno

5. Pizza

9. Wish-tree

11. Celeste

7. Laine

3. Zander

2. Kaylee

10. Pralaya

12. Nolder

6.  Csarmi

 

 

@Shad, in case you feel like cementing my reads or disappointing me, giving up your spot as my top town and moving to possibly deep, derp wolf, how serious are you with the Cass intro post thing being indicative of me as Town? The claim and excitement were genuine this time but the logic you present there is seriously flawed. I absolutely make that post or something similar as a wolf. 

 

 

Can you list some reasons for these reads Cass my dear?

[Pralaya]

I caught up to page 50. Good lord, this is getting hard. 35 more to go? Doubt I will be able to read full before deadline.

 

I still have Kaylee and Len as scum.

 

I liked Shad's reasoning about Celeste being town because of Wish's comments on her. I don't think wish/celeste is w/w at all.

[Kaylee]

Kaylee, can you name for me any recent scum games you've played here besides Frozen?

I know there's more but can't think off the top of my head. Tress you remember? I know my last town game I sheeped Nyn, but can't remember if that was Yates Cards game or if I was scum in that one. Sorry I don't keep track.

[Zander?]

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

 

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

 

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

 

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

 

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

 

• Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

 

 

Compare with other villagers in this game. While most of us have strong town reads we haven't been diligent in re-examining, I don't believe we simply went "yep, you're a villager.... yep, you are.... yes, you are.... you're a villager.... you're a villager..." and had little difficulty arriving there.

 

For someone who describes herself as usually struggling day one, her villager list and the process of creating it looks entirely politically motivated and reveals not much in the way of solving from a perspective of not being in the know.

 

This should be extremely easy to compare to another Kaylee game where she's town. My premise is that if she's a villager, she's going to have greater difficulty getting those villager reads in her villaging game, and some of those reads should reverse during the course of the first day. I think I should be able to see a difference.

 

If this is null, I'll find out and/or you guys are going to tell me that it is.

 

The bottom line is that she's giving off the general appearance of village solving, but I don't think it is, because the process looks improbably even and too easy for someone who is "struggling". Compare and contrast with Celeste.

 

 

Minor stuffs:

 

 

 

There's other negative indicators, such as the fact that generally, she's behaving much like Besie was in the previous game, playing the role of the peaceful mediator type.

 

That can just be her normal personality, but she's taken it up to 11 this game.

 

And she was kind of awkward around the time that Turin posed the question about if not Turin, who dies today. "Maybe Nolder", and then, "Csarmi then" when I deliberately copycatted Alanna's Csarmi and Kaylee response to who to kill today besides Turin.

 

This section is the minor stuff which can be dealt with separately. The main point is the major problem and means -20 points if it's esablished to be different from her normal behavior.

 

 

I'll post the actual work in a minute. Just wanted to make my main points read-able.

 

 

I did read this and I like the points you've made.  Will like to see what you come back with after reading her Town games and others who know her better weigh in.

[Zander?]

Page 83.  If Pizza is Scum he deserves to win this game.  Only way I EVEN consider voting him is if hes still alive coming down to end game.

[Zander?]

SUMMARY:

 

She has shades of finding villagers in her village game, but her behavior pattern is still about 90% different than this game.

 

I do not buy she makes the progression from the two linked villager games, one of them from this past year, to this game.

 

She doesn't read like a villager who is not in the know in this game.

 

She's far less aggressive. She doesn't wield her vote like a cudgel like you're supposed to. She's not casing people really, or pushing them.

 

She's not paranoid enough. She's too linear.

 

Kaylee, you got some splainin to do.

 

Vote: Kaylee

 

 

Ok just wanna hear others weigh in but this does look pretty telling.

[Kaylee]

You seemed to trust my meta read on Wish earlier, at least to an extent.  What made it compelling in your opinion?

The fact that you took the time to read other games to get it. I'm torn on her because as Alanna said I too like how she's been responding regarding Zander. Put that with your meta read on her makes me think she's less likely scum. That leaves Celeste whom I rather give time to tell, Csarmi, Pral who's gaining traction (still want to hear from him though) as POE and Wish less likely. I won't vote Zander, Pizza, Shad, or Turin (due to the claim).

 

Pral I really want to answer about how he felt Turin was town telling when it wasn't seen by anyone else at that point.

 

Leno, Cass and Alanna I still feel as town though they have the best ability to fool me. Alanna esp is just really coming from a town POV and I don't see it being her.

 

Nol recently has been sounding town to me as well so thinking it's not likely him either.

[Kaylee]

 

 

 

 

 

Nolder, Wish sane question. I'd especially like you three to answer.

 

Not myself.

Not Celeste.

Not Laine.

Not Cass.

Not Pizza.

Not Zander.

Everyone else is more or less fair game. If I had to choose someone to lynch, I would have wanted to go after Turin, but atm I have no reason to doubt his hardclaim. Meh.

The wolves are probably in the inactives, though I hate to say it. None of the fairly active players have really pinged me.

 

 

Well ok then. So Leno, myself, Csarmi, Pral, Nol, and someone else I'm forgetting.Any one of these are fine.

 

 

Explain what you mean by red.

I was clarifying what she was saying. That it didn't matter which of the ones in her pile were lynched.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question: What was "I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad" in reference to?

 

It was a continuation of this thought:

 

I'll be more worried later on if he hasn't caught any scum. I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad.

 

Basically, I expect you and Zander to find scum. If we keep going and you haven't caught any, I'm going to turn on you.

 

 

I feel like i already have tho....sadface.gif.

 

But what Im not a fan of is you putting the emphasis to do so on us and away from you!!!

 

TOWN!ALANNA FINDS SCUM WITH ME!!!!!!!

 

HEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPP ME HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPP YOU REKKKKKKKTTTTTT WOOOLLLLLVVVVVVEEEEEESSSSS!!!!!

 

Zander I don't know how to tell you this but

 

 

I think Alanna might just be minority village

 

 

 

 

 

HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!!!

 

lololololololol

 

But really its possible but I really dont think so atp man.