[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

Nolder · January 5, 2016

Family time. So

Hardclaim: Alexstrsza- Town Doctor

I won't be back in thread until tomorrow sometime. Unless I can sneak a few minutes here or there.

Ok so I just want to say that NORMALLY my position is that claims (especially on D1 and especially under pressure) don't matter.

If you were suspicious of someone a claim should not change your position.

That said, in this specific case I believe Turin.

I'll even says he's at -0.5 in my notes right now.

So for what it's worth to anyone I believe this claim is legit.

alannalynn · January 5, 2016

Family time. So

Hardclaim: Alexstrsza- Town Doctor

I won't be back in thread until tomorrow sometime. Unless I can sneak a few minutes here or there.

Ok so I just want to say that NORMALLY my position is that claims (especially on D1 and especially under pressure) don't matter.

If you were suspicious of someone a claim should not change your position.

That said, in this specific case I believe Turin.

I'll even says he's at -0.5 in my notes right now.

So for what it's worth to anyone I believe this claim is legit.

Why isn't Turin towntelling better?

Zander? · January 5, 2016

@Kaylee, IMO Pizza, Alanna, Shad and Wish are all making noises like they are willing to vote Celeste over Wish. Let's see once the votes fall off of me.

[unvote]

[v] Wish [/v]

Shad or Pizza aren't going anywhere today. I am willing to follow along with the one on my list that I think is viable for today.

I like the vote but Im pretty sure Wish has been Locking Celeste as Town since like her first couple posts....

Nolder · January 5, 2016

Nolder, what's up with the clippings from your notes?
What?

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-day-one/page-58?do=findComment&comment=3588354

The clippings from your notes.

What's the purpose of them? What are you trying to accomplish by sharing them?

Several people keep asking me not just for reads but also for reasons. I keep putting them off but I also know how that looks and the calls for reads are getting more frequent.

I am hoping that by sharing what I have on my top 2 town reads it will placate everyone who's been hounding me, at least for awhile.

I thought that was all pretty obvious...

Nolder · January 5, 2016

Family time. So

Hardclaim: Alexstrsza- Town Doctor

I won't be back in thread until tomorrow sometime. Unless I can sneak a few minutes here or there.

Ok so I just want to say that NORMALLY my position is that claims (especially on D1 and especially under pressure) don't matter.

If you were suspicious of someone a claim should not change your position.

That said, in this specific case I believe Turin.

I'll even says he's at -0.5 in my notes right now.

So for what it's worth to anyone I believe this claim is legit.

Why isn't Turin towntelling better?

Sorry?

Ummm I don't know....maybe he's busy I guess?

Seems like a question for him not me.

Zander? · January 5, 2016

I'm real time right now, waiting on Laine. I want to do that before I look at Matrix again since she's here.

Then I'll check out Csarmi's meta. Though I have to say, I like the fact that he gave me five links on his own instead of just the requested 2.

Hi there. Just a few more pages and I'll be here with you.

Turin, I would be voting Kaylee or YOLO voting Csarmi

I cant hate that logic!!!!

lolololololol

Askthepizzaguy · January 5, 2016

Several people keep asking me not just for reads but also for reasons. I keep putting them off but I also know how that looks and the calls for reads are getting more frequent.

I am hoping that by sharing what I have on my top 2 town reads it will placate everyone who's been hounding me, at least for awhile.

I thought that was all pretty obvious...

Have you ever done this kind of behavior before in a game? Even if it was a long time ago.

Specifically, the taking of notes and sharing them later.

It's important to my read of you. Please be honest.

Nolder · January 5, 2016

You think if she's a wolf she's an obvious wolf and it will only get worse over time.

You'd rather hunt the wolves that are still under cover than take the easy lynch.

It makes sense but I think I disagree with it strategically.

More specifically, I think she is more likely to be a mislynch than a wolf at the present time, not that she is especially villagery. And that she should get resolved at some point, but when we have more data on her, thus reducing the odds that it is a mislynch.

If she's a villager I don't want to give the wolves a freebie pass to skate through day one hounding someone who can't defend herself.

If she's a wolf, I want people to continue to pay attention to her, resolve her at some point, don't forget about her. Until she starts to shine like a villagery beacon, she should be in the POE.

I just think it's not the best move to make her first in the POE.

And if she's a wolf, I understand how this looks. I will be dead before I get mislynched over this if she is a wolf.

Ok I'm glad I went back to reread because I knew this post wasn't sitting well with me and I wanted to look over it again.

Nomi is basically agreeing that Celeste looks scummy.

His thought process is if that's WRONG then he wants to give her time to improve and if it's RIGHT it will remain right.

Think about that for a minute. If you think someone is scummy you want to lynch them for what they have or haven't done.

Whatever your reasons are you had them...well for a reason. He seems to be playing on towns fear of mislynching.

Mislynching really isn't a thing when you think about it. You have suspects and at the bottom is the guy who looks the dirtiest.

You get rid of him for a reason. If he's a villager well oh well but he was lynched because he looked like a wolf.

So that's why I don't like this defense of Celeste. Nomi agrees she looks like a wolf...but we shouldn't lynch her. Because mislynches.

I don't like it.

This smells all wrong to me.

Askthepizzaguy · January 5, 2016

Go ahead and lynch me for thinking differently.

alannalynn · January 5, 2016

Family time. So

Hardclaim: Alexstrsza- Town Doctor

I won't be back in thread until tomorrow sometime. Unless I can sneak a few minutes here or there.

Ok so I just want to say that NORMALLY my position is that claims (especially on D1 and especially under pressure) don't matter.

If you were suspicious of someone a claim should not change your position.

That said, in this specific case I believe Turin.

I'll even says he's at -0.5 in my notes right now.

So for what it's worth to anyone I believe this claim is legit.

Why isn't Turin towntelling better?

Sorry?

Ummm I don't know....maybe he's busy I guess?

Seems like a question for him not me.

I'm asking you because you have him negative right now but you believe his claim. He's done nothing to show he's town. Even if someone is busy, they can town tell in the few posts they're able to have. It's not the effort that someone puts in, it's how they do it when they are around.

wish-tree · January 5, 2016

a few notes from reading:

(Sorry, got called away for lunch)

Nolder- I like his responses so far. Natural, well-thought out.

Zander- seems to be tunneling me. Well, whatever.

csarmi- pretty much null and all fluff.

Pralaya- is he even playing this game anymore?

is anyone else even playing?

Side note:

How many scum are we looking at? May be pointless wifom, but it might be helpful to look for connections among people. What Turin is saying about interactions is valid, even if I disagree with him that my interactions with Celeste are weird. I think Lainey gave a solid defense, so I'm not going to attempt to defend myself. 13 players, so maybe 3-4?

Zander? · January 5, 2016

[v]Turin[/v]

Otherwise I'd go for one of nulls.

Are you just sheeping off of Pizza's build up or have you made up a case against him? Cause this next post is making me a little concerned....

Zander is now firmly town for me. That was some proper work on the Wish ISO. If everyone is still convinced Shad is not a candidate for today then I would be most willing to switch to Wish.
Shad has been in my town pile so I won't be voting him. I'm not sold on you however and I'm more willing to follow my strong town read, Pizza, onto you. Why shouldn't you be the lynch today?

I also like what Pizza said about your list right after this post of yours.

I'm TOWN.

I'm also very curious about how so many people are so loathe to vote in this game. Waiting for other people to vote first? or waiting for DL to get close so that there will be less time to move votes.

Also, My effort level is always based upon my available time. I thought I had more this week. Hasn't worked out that way.

Pizza is >rand to be mafia IMO but no one wants to hear that right now.

Bottom line is that I'm probably not getting lynched today. I may well be murdered tonight tho.

I like just voting unless I have a more solid feel/lead. That's just how I play.

Ok you say you're town, but I'm just not convinced as yet. I need to see moar.

Going ahead and responding to this as of p37.

My list looks something like this... ?

Alanna

Lenlo

Zander

Pizza

Shad

Cass

Wish

Csarmi

Pral

Nolder

Celeste

Kaylee

Turin

ALANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAA!!!!

<3 <3 <3

Dont put your own name on your reads lists!!!!

What is it about Penny you find that makes her more scummy then Lenny?

Can you provide some reasons behind your reads please?

Re: My reads list, most of my reads are supported by what I've already mentioned, but I can definitely go through some of the reasons. And YES I put myself at the top becasue of weird reasons where the list feels incomplete... :/

Lenlo: top town read: he feels like town to me, and I haven't hated anything he's done. His tone is coming over really good for me and I feel like he's actively involved. The whole exchange we had with him questioning my read of him confirms that this is the right spot for Lenlo. He did a few things that I don't really expect to see from mafia. Unless he suddenly claims mafia, I'm leaving him in that spot.

Zander: Dude, you're probably town and we're gonna wreck the wolves. I would probably need a cop view to doubt you right now. I just feel like you're here and asking questions and taking your time to work up to scum reads instead of it seeming like you already know. I think I skimmed a Lenny ISO, but I haven't gotten to that point in my reread yet.

Pizza: I think he's pretty solidly town unless proven otherwise. Not going to worry about him until later anyways if he is. Besides, nks may clear him up. Basically, You feel pretty townie, I'm not going to worry yet. I would like a chance to talk to you and clear up my own slot for you though.

Shad: I want to slot him town so much but I have a nagging feeling about his slot. Definitely needs an ISO so I can be more confident in this read. This nagging feeling reminds me of how I felt in Pulp Fiction. Doesn't mean I'm going to read you mafia for it, it may just be something on my end that I'm not thinking through. I feel like he's mostly engaged and scum hunting but there's a few things I've noticed that have bothered me.

Cass: Same as I've mentioned before, I like that she's putting in work. And work is good, effort is good. That's what's getting her the town lean. BUT, I myself don't feel like the work that's being done is productive. To me, it feels like she's asking questions just to ask questions and appear useful. I mentioned that I would have put her lower before and I think Shad mentioned that he was surprised I hadn't since I HAD shown reservations, but I'm going to ISO this one and see how I feel afterwards.

Wish: Town lean is due to her entrance to the game and the active scum hunting as well as a difference from how she was when I played with her in TUS. I can see a process there and I can see that she's trying to make reads and do something with it. This is why she's here on my list and why she's above Celeste. The one difference between Cass and Wish is that I feel like I can follow Wish's thought process a little bit better than Cass, so I think technically I should have put Wish above Cass at this point. Though, this definitely could be due to me being able to understand Lenny better outside of mafia too. She's like an Alanna twin at this point. If she keeps showing me her work and the effort she's putting in, I'm going to be happy with this town read.

Csarmi/Pral/Nolder: Don't remember a damn thing they've done thus far. Csarmi I know has been around for a few posts but I'm pretty sure I keep forgetting he's even in the game. Pral hasn't even posted at this point. And Nolder posted that scenario that he wanted us all to answer but I don't remember anything other than that. None of them have earned reads one way or another but by force of POE, they could be sliding down pretty soon.

Celeste: She hasn't done anything for me to warrant a town read. She's also had a few defensive posts that I haven't been fond of.

Kaylee: Can't remember any kind of thread presence even though I know she's been here posting, so it's partially result of POE. ISO candidate.

Turin: Don't like his reads list, it's bad, it's doing nothing for me, it's superficial. His comments on Lenlo's meta are actually null for me now, but I got a bad feeling when he was responding to me about it and my read on Lenlo, like he's trying to turn it around on me. I don't remember the last time that town reading someone was something to be given - points for.

looks like third from the bottom to me.

That still is what you were saying. Even if shes 3rd from the bottom it doesnt mean she was willing to vote her today.

Sup Xander.

Who's the towniest person in the game as of right now?

Me obv!!!!

But after me Id have to say Pizza tbqh.

and scummiest Lenny.

Your thoughts on this and same question for both town and scum for you.

I missed this earlier, this isn't referring to Lenlo is it?

Nope its Lenny who is Wish Tree

alannalynn · January 5, 2016

re Nolder on Pizza/Celeste

I understand what Pizza is getting at and I have my own reservations. I'm not afraid to lynch Celeste though. If she doesn't improve tomorrow after some flips, that's probably where my vote is going and I promise that.

wish-tree · January 5, 2016

Nolder, Wish sane question. I'd especially like you three to answer.

Not myself.

Not Celeste.

Not Laine.

Not Cass.

Not Pizza.

Not Zander.

Everyone else is more or less fair game. If I had to choose someone to lynch, I would have wanted to go after Turin, but atm I have no reason to doubt his hardclaim. Meh.

The wolves are probably in the inactives, though I hate to say it. None of the fairly active players have really pinged me.

alannalynn · January 5, 2016

a few notes from reading:

(Sorry, got called away for lunch)

Nolder- I like his responses so far. Natural, well-thought out.

Zander- seems to be tunneling me. Well, whatever.

csarmi- pretty much null and all fluff.

Pralaya- is he even playing this game anymore?

is anyone else even playing?

Side note:

How many scum are we looking at? May be pointless wifom, but it might be helpful to look for connections among people. What Turin is saying about interactions is valid, even if I disagree with him that my interactions with Celeste are weird. I think Lainey gave a solid defense, so I'm not going to attempt to defend myself. 13 players, so maybe 3-4?

Lenny, I still want to hear your defense. I'm not going to speak for you. Talk to me, prove to me you're town without a doubt.

Askthepizzaguy · January 5, 2016

Nolder, I asked you a question. Are you here in real time or no?

Nolder · January 5, 2016

Several people keep asking me not just for reads but also for reasons. I keep putting them off but I also know how that looks and the calls for reads are getting more frequent.

I am hoping that by sharing what I have on my top 2 town reads it will placate everyone who's been hounding me, at least for awhile.

I thought that was all pretty obvious...

Have you ever done this kind of behavior before in a game? Even if it was a long time ago.

Specifically, the taking of notes and sharing them later.

It's important to my read of you. Please be honest.

UGH DM ate my first response to this.

Yes I have not often but usually in big games.

When I take notes I tend to want to keep them to myself for as long as possible.

Here is a game I've taken notes on before I think: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/game-thread-10-16-top-tier-vanilla-18er-short-night-1482437/

wish-tree · January 5, 2016

You think if she's a wolf she's an obvious wolf and it will only get worse over time.

You'd rather hunt the wolves that are still under cover than take the easy lynch.

It makes sense but I think I disagree with it strategically.

More specifically, I think she is more likely to be a mislynch than a wolf at the present time, not that she is especially villagery. And that she should get resolved at some point, but when we have more data on her, thus reducing the odds that it is a mislynch.

If she's a villager I don't want to give the wolves a freebie pass to skate through day one hounding someone who can't defend herself.

If she's a wolf, I want people to continue to pay attention to her, resolve her at some point, don't forget about her. Until she starts to shine like a villagery beacon, she should be in the POE.

I just think it's not the best move to make her first in the POE.

And if she's a wolf, I understand how this looks. I will be dead before I get mislynched over this if she is a wolf.

Ok I'm glad I went back to reread because I knew this post wasn't sitting well with me and I wanted to look over it again.

Nomi is basically agreeing that Celeste looks scummy.

His thought process is if that's WRONG then he wants to give her time to improve and if it's RIGHT it will remain right.

Think about that for a minute. If you think someone is scummy you want to lynch them for what they have or haven't done.

Whatever your reasons are you had them...well for a reason. He seems to be playing on towns fear of mislynching.

Mislynching really isn't a thing when you think about it. You have suspects and at the bottom is the guy who looks the dirtiest.

You get rid of him for a reason. If he's a villager well oh well but he was lynched because he looked like a wolf.

So that's why I don't like this defense of Celeste. Nomi agrees she looks like a wolf...but we shouldn't lynch her. Because mislynches.

I don't like it.

This smells all wrong to me.

sorry, who is Nomi?

Pizza??

Nolder · January 5, 2016

Nolder, I asked you a question. Are you here in real time or no?

DM ate my post I had to retype it.

wish-tree · January 5, 2016

a few notes from reading:

(Sorry, got called away for lunch)

Nolder- I like his responses so far. Natural, well-thought out.

Zander- seems to be tunneling me. Well, whatever.

csarmi- pretty much null and all fluff.

Pralaya- is he even playing this game anymore?

is anyone else even playing?

Side note:

How many scum are we looking at? May be pointless wifom, but it might be helpful to look for connections among people. What Turin is saying about interactions is valid, even if I disagree with him that my interactions with Celeste are weird. I think Lainey gave a solid defense, so I'm not going to attempt to defend myself. 13 players, so maybe 3-4?

Lenny, I still want to hear your defense. I'm not going to speak for you. Talk to me, prove to me you're town without a doubt.

Nono, I said I don't need to defend my interactions with Celeste. It's an overchewed bone.

Zander? · January 5, 2016

I think I know what you're driving at.

Turin, you're saying Celeste and Laine are wolves together?

fwiw people shouldnt answer/respond to this kinda stuff for people

Nolder · January 5, 2016

You think if she's a wolf she's an obvious wolf and it will only get worse over time.

You'd rather hunt the wolves that are still under cover than take the easy lynch.

It makes sense but I think I disagree with it strategically.

More specifically, I think she is more likely to be a mislynch than a wolf at the present time, not that she is especially villagery. And that she should get resolved at some point, but when we have more data on her, thus reducing the odds that it is a mislynch.

If she's a villager I don't want to give the wolves a freebie pass to skate through day one hounding someone who can't defend herself.

If she's a wolf, I want people to continue to pay attention to her, resolve her at some point, don't forget about her. Until she starts to shine like a villagery beacon, she should be in the POE.

I just think it's not the best move to make her first in the POE.

And if she's a wolf, I understand how this looks. I will be dead before I get mislynched over this if she is a wolf.

Ok I'm glad I went back to reread because I knew this post wasn't sitting well with me and I wanted to look over it again.

Nomi is basically agreeing that Celeste looks scummy.

His thought process is if that's WRONG then he wants to give her time to improve and if it's RIGHT it will remain right.

Think about that for a minute. If you think someone is scummy you want to lynch them for what they have or haven't done.

Whatever your reasons are you had them...well for a reason. He seems to be playing on towns fear of mislynching.

Mislynching really isn't a thing when you think about it. You have suspects and at the bottom is the guy who looks the dirtiest.

You get rid of him for a reason. If he's a villager well oh well but he was lynched because he looked like a wolf.

So that's why I don't like this defense of Celeste. Nomi agrees she looks like a wolf...but we shouldn't lynch her. Because mislynches.

I don't like it.

This smells all wrong to me.

sorry, who is Nomi?

Pizza??

Yes. My Xi key is broken. :(

Zander? · January 5, 2016

Turin seems to be looking for any loose info to twist. Reminds me of the time I tried to get away with Tanya's lynch in Raganorak but Mish called me out for wrong facts. It just looks like poor mafia play a bit.

i dont hate this post

Askthepizzaguy · January 5, 2016

Several people keep asking me not just for reads but also for reasons. I keep putting them off but I also know how that looks and the calls for reads are getting more frequent.

I am hoping that by sharing what I have on my top 2 town reads it will placate everyone who's been hounding me, at least for awhile.

I thought that was all pretty obvious...

Have you ever done this kind of behavior before in a game? Even if it was a long time ago.

Specifically, the taking of notes and sharing them later.

It's important to my read of you. Please be honest.

UGH DM ate my first response to this.

Yes I have not often but usually in big games.

When I take notes I tend to want to keep them to myself for as long as possible.

Here is a game I've taken notes on before I think: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/game-thread-10-16-top-tier-vanilla-18er-short-night-1482437/

Okay.

Thanks, that got rid of a bad thought in my head that I was having.

About what point in the game did you post your notes?

Zander? · January 5, 2016

Getting incredibly good vibes from Nolder's as of p54.

I'll think on that and flesh it out or take it back when I'm not on my cellphone later.

What are these vibes youre getting? Just touch on it please so I can see where you are coming from if you dont mind brother.

[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

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