[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Nolder]

 

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

 

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

 

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

 

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

 

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

• Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

In her head.

 

This is what I was thinking.

A lot of players have trouble showing how they came to a conclusion but it doesn't mean they didn't struggle to get there.

[Kaylee]

The full ISO of Kaylee.

 

Postive comments:

Cass- no struggle to read

Pizza- no struggle to read, strongest town read, blue read

Lenlo- leaning town, no struggle, still getting town vibes, dark green

Zander- leaning town, no struggle

Shad- no struggle, feeling good.

Cass- light green, behavior associated with town game.

---------------

Alanna- town lean likelyNull comments:

Turin (before)

Wish

Csarmi

Pral

NolderNegative comments:

Celeste's unvote of her joke vote. Says it's meh, doesn't know her well.

Unsure why wish-tree needs to defend Celeste.

Unsure about wish-tree and Celeste (Penny/Lenny)

Turin, 1036

"Maybe Nol" 1086Kaylee Iso:

 9 Hi, and goodnight.

147

I like posts like this from Cass. Makes me feel good about her.

Her last comment here for Alanna I'll touch on. I can't speak for Laine but I myself felt it could come from town Len. It's meta reasons for me. I haven't seen enough from either Shad or Len to have a read on them, but Lenlo I know better than Shad.

I will be in catch up mode for awhile since this is apprently a very active game. Will post more as I'm able to catch up.

208  I agreed with this. Liking Pizza's tone.

210  We've played a game together but it's been awhile. I try to play the same as either alignment. I could say more on my playstyle but as you said it's better when it's not coming from a biased source.

215 I like the feel of your posts. You don't seem to be reserved as you do when scum. I've been scum with you and as scum you tend to come across as being careful. This game you seem to be trying to figure things out. Basically saying things \pointing them out as you see them. You're thinking things through but don't seem to care as much how you're coming across... More focused on the game and less on yourself I guess is what I'm saying.

On Leno: As town he's more likely to say whatever pops in his head, less filtered. As scum he's very careful what and how he says things. As I said it's early yet but leaning town.

216  Depends. If the one with the bat looks like they're planning on using it on me then duh them. Otherwise why would I shoot either? If there's no threat I'm not using the gun.221  Why are you voting Shad?

223  Lenny: Yes but I don't recall the game. Either that or it was the game I modded...

226  Hi Lenofinger!

228  Yup that was it

268  Ok makes sense. I don't have a read on him yet. I questioned your vote because it came without explanation.

273  Please don't keep requoting a post to only make a small comment. It's better to snip it down to contain only what you're talking about...or just reference it. Otherwise it's hard to read.

280 Turin: apprently not clear to me. It is now though.

I sometimes miss things when playing catch up. Besides, I'd rather ask to clarify if I'm unsure then just assume I know what someone's point is.291  I'm curious why the unvote? The timing, seeing as Pizza had been questioning/pressing your on it, just feels...off.303  That's what I asked. Curious why you asked soon after me.

305  I don't get the comment Zander. It's not like that's the only comment I've made.

315 It's not that he also asked, just that I had not long before. I now realize he's catching up, but thought he ignored me saying it and was trying to like he was first.

I point out things as they stand out. Found the timing odd.

317  Pizza: yeah I just realized as I said to Leno just now.

338  It was me a long time ago. I had a typo and it stuck.

339  Me too

341  It wasn't your unvote itself but the timing that stood out.

343  Lenocorn?

362  As I told her, it wasn't the fact that she unvoted, but the timing that was off. Not sure why you feel you need to defend her though she's already said the same thing. She didn't address the timing which is what was being questioned.

367  She unvoted shortly after being questioned by Pizza. He didn't realize it was a joke vote.

381  Fair enough I suppose.

387  Aww someone loves me. Zander409  Zander: I don't know her well enough. Could or be coincidence? Perhaps. Hence the fair enough comment. It's possible. Do I suspect her enough to vote? Not at this time. It stood out, I said as much and she gave an explanation. I agree it's meh.

412  I'm only caught up for now...going to take a nap and I'm sure they'll make it happen. It's not fun to play catch up every morning though which I'm sure I'll attempt to do. New job starts tomorrow so I won't be able to be as active.

418  I'm here Zander and I like interacting IRT. Any questions for me? That goes for anyone.

421  Night Pizza, night Sooh. *hugs Sooh*433 I'm not really sure on Penny/Lenny. I've noted Wish standing up for/defending Celeste regarding the unvote. Not sure if there's something to it yet though...just noted for now.

I have Pizza, Len, Cass and you as town leans. Don't really have scum leans atm. There's a lot I'm not sure on as I've not played with them or at least not often.

Cass I've already explained my town lean on.

Pizza and you are for being vocal and the focus of it. Meaning I've liked what he's had to say and thought the same on some of the same things. Zander- is more how you've latched onto Lenny/Penny and yet aren't tunneling. You're still addressing other things as they happen.

Leno- Part meta part I've liked how he's responding as he's catching up. Feels genuine and like his townie self.436  I got that too when Wish jumped in to answer for Celeste. Seems almost like there's a knowing. I could be reading too much into that though.

437  Looking forward to it.

443  Kinda creepy

445  It's not just Zander. Leno and I have commented on it as well.448  I'm not sure how I feel about being in your head. Scary place

451  Yeah and it's scary! Lol

453 Bold: Hold on, first off nobody is voting you so not likely a mislynch if you're town. We've mentioned it felt off. For me it isn't just the timing it's her defense of you as well which I said could be just strange. No reason to jump to saying you'll be mislynched. If you're town help us see it.

458  I have seen them, been a part of it. Nobody has voted you. You can't be mislynched if you're not voted. You have plenty of time to show us if you're town.

468  What? I don't get question. I don't like when posts are requoted to the point you can't tell what they say anymore. That's all I meant. I don't get what the question has to do with this game or the quote you used.

474  Shad: I only won as scum in Frozen because my scum team was acting scummy and it made easy for me to then "scum hunt". Typically as scum I'm more reserved and cautious about what I say and how I'm being perceived.

479  I think I know why, but please say the reason.

497  Goodnight everyone

...683 Hun you have all of one vote on you so no, you didn't call anything. Your insisting that you'll be mislynched might actually get you there unless you show us you're town.

Please explain on Shad. If you've since explained then thanks.

Also, good morning.684  To your last point: some of us are trying to give you the chance to move on and show how you're town.

685  It wasn't a blind acceptance but rather a I suppose I can see that response. I wasn't voting her and like to give people a chance to show effort... Esp since as a townie I've been wrongfully accused and lynched. I don't like her attitude of "I'm going to be mislynched now" though before even getting voted.

686  I too am hoping for examples.

687  There Verbal was talking about me using wall of texts, not using quotes requoted to the punt of not being able to read them. (I can only play on mobile most of the time and those get to be one letter inside the quotes... So people using that to say "yeah I agree" or other little comments gets frustrating. That's as either alignment BTW).688  Feeling pretty good about Shad after this post. I like how he's explained where he's coming from.

690  Wasn't defensive about frozen. I wasn't sure what he was getting at.691  Me too on your last point here.

692 Cass: From what I know he'll give content either way. It's the approach that changes. He'll care more about how he's coming across, choose words more carefully correct typos... As mafia. I don't see that here. He's trying something new, he's making his thoughts known and being active. Still getting town vibes.

693  Caught up. Will be gone for awhile. Have to get ready for work and bathe the kids.

698  Cass: no I didn't have a read on Turin there. I like that he's given thoughts on players with reasons behind it though. He's not one I read well tbh.

701  Feel better Wish

...

828  Looking forward to it.

831  I agree it's not likely they're both scum. Willing to wait to see what Celeste has to say upon catch up-still giving her a chance to speak up and show if she's town.

899 He backed off of me due to my outburst. I told him, in game, that it wasn't alignment indicative. I was just genuinely pissed. Ask husband or Tress.

Anyway just wanted to clarify.1022 I agree with this. I really don't make RL excuses. I say when things in RL come up to keep me away. Period. Done it as both alignments.

Anyway enough about this. It's becoming a distraction. Let's focus on this particular game please.

1024  If there's something I can clarify for you let me know. It's nice to see you stating to put in effort

1025 So you're strongest town reads are due to tone, and scum reads are for also tone more or less... Except maybe Nol. Can anyone who reads Celeste well say whether it's typical of her to give mostly tone reads?

1026  I like this question

1027  OK fair enough as I tend to be the same way. Will be looking for this to change as the game goes on then.

1028  I really like this. I can agree with this about Celeste. Turin is one I don't read as well however from what I remember he usually puts in effort. If have to look at his reason for voting again to see if I agree about that part.

1029  After your recent posts you're my strongest town read.1030  I'm trying but I typically struggle early game. In fact I'm trying to change since my last town game I spent sheeping my strongest town read, Nyn.1036 Shad has been in my town pile so I won't be voting him. I'm not sold on you however and I'm more willing to follow my strong town read, Pizza, onto you. Why shouldn't you be the lynch today? I also like what Pizza said about your list right after this post of yours.

Big major posthttp://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-day-one/page-53?do=findComment&comment=3588222

I'll try, though I have a lot of null...

The order I copied from Alanna's list so as to not miss anyone.

Alanna - town lean. I'm looking the work she's putting in, explaining herself and giving reads and vibes all say likely town.

Lenlo - Town. Stronger lean than Alanna. Darker green. He's tone, style and overall liked what he's had to say.

Zander- About the same as Leno. Mind melded a few times. He's gone after what he feels is a sunny without ignoring the rest of the game. He seems genuine and I just find myself nodding a lot of at least able to see where's he's coming from and it feels townie.

Pizza - Blue read. You've made me think. You're approach this game and esp recently had me thinking you have to be town. If I'm wrong then bravo to you. The way you've put in work, and so early, I just don't see coming from scum.

Shad - Light green. He's one I'm not as familiar with. Why town? His willingness to go against the grain with his reads, how he's handled Celeste for example. He is putting in effort and fighting for what he feels is right. Also genuine and a "I don't care if you don't agree, but vote someone I feel is town and I'll fight it" attitude.

Cass - light green. She's fooled me before though. Here she comes across as more ready going and free thought which I associate with her town game.

Wish - Unsure ATM so null I suppose. I have mixed feelings.

Csarmi- Null I have a real hard time reading him.

Pral- Note enough from him Null

Nolder- Reserving since he's going outside what I'm used to. Null for now just to place him. Time will tell with this slot.

Celeste - I'm going with Pizza here and saying more time will tell. So she's between grey and yellow.

Kaylee- me town and I know I need to step it up. I'm trying to do better.

Turin - Yellow. I'd like him to answer my question. I like what piazza's had to say against him.

1048  Yup computer hasn't worked in awhile.

1049  I'll be in and out all day. Will do my best to stay caught up and answer any questions.

1077  Who is doing the bold? Please examples because I know of anyone off hand who is calling her town and yet wanting to lynch her. I know some, like me, said they were conflicted about her.1082 I like just voting unless I have a more solid feel/lead. That's just how I play.

Ok you say you're town, but I'm just not convinced as yet. I need to see moar.1086  It wouldn't be Shad or Pizza that I'd vote. Maybe Nol. I'm just not sure tbh. I don't have a solid scum read atm. I do better finding scum by D2 or D3.1088  I'm curious why me when the most you've said about me is that you don't remember what I've done so far. If there's another reason please share with the class.

1090  She actually called her town or at least likely town. I can't remember the exact wording she used.

1091  Was supposed to say I don't like to just vote.

1093  Curious as to why. Is it you think I'm scummy or just POE?

1094 Vote: Turin

Otherwise I'd go for one of nulls.1112 I'd like to bit honestly I'm not sure. I'd vote Csarmi then. I've given thoughts and reads. I just don't feel strongly enough about anyone to push a lynch. I won't just to save myself either. That wouldn't help town win. Unfortunately D1 is hard for me so I often struggle.I'm following along and being aS active as I can. The only other I'm not sold on my list is Nolder. I'd like to not say as to why just yet as it depends on how he proceeds.

11211) I liked his case it made sense, but Shad raised valid points about get meta which I'm not familiar with. I don't see her being wolf with Celeste. I could possibly vote there. I'm trying not to sheep.

2) No. I mentioned her earlier. The reads list doesn't give a lot, but I didn't say much about it since I know mine are the same. Pizzas points just made sense but as I've been saying since her "oh now I'm going to be mislynched" comment, I'm willing to give her time.

3) Not his typical meta. Plain and simple. The starting with the question. Hoping for more there but not seeing enough as of yet.

4) Funny as you want others to read your posts but you didn't read mine to know the answer. I asked why he shouldn't be lynched. Yes he's answered it. No I wasn't fully satisfied with the answer hence why I voted him.1127  First Unvote I won't vote a claimed town PR. Csarmi was higher since I have little on him and I wanted to give Celeste time. I could vote her but I'd honestly like to give her time.

1145 1) I didn't say I didn't get the meta argument. I said Shad made a metà argument that made sense. At least that's what I wad getting at. That's why I'm conflicted on her.2) Fair enough. I just don't make a lot of solid reads D1. It is what it is. Take our how you will. Unless someone does something really attending out anyways.

4) Not snippy. Remember text doest give tone. Just a realization. I'm up and responding to everything that stands out to me.

1147  Zander: it wad more effort than I felt she'd given all game.1148 I don't want to rush a lynch. Looks like Wish, Celeste, Kaylee, and Csarmi are who everyone's recently talked about lynching. I'd go Nol too.

What are cases thoughts on these? Who should be lynched? I'm looking for more reason than POE.1150  Celeste: who should we lynch today and why?1152  Nolder, Wish sane question. I'd especially like you three to answer.

1163  Looking forward to it.

1168  I prefer to just work in the current game. I try not to swayed meta if possible. I can't blame you for not being sure since I'm in same boat, but at least give a few names you're less sure of.

1207 I done either yet I have some I'd be willing to vote for. I can't decide on you so I said it'd like to give it time. I don't like this question. Looks kind of like "well look at how I don't strong reads, I can't be mafia because I'm uninformed". I'm not calling you scum. I'm trying to get you to say who's on the table from you're POV. Who are your bottom?

With everything that's gone on you don't have one or two that stood out?

1210  She has

1217  You left off Laine, whom you briefly talk about later and Pizza. Others too,but come on Pizza had been active. Why leave him off?1220  I'm liking how you're putting things together here. On your own. I'm willing to see where you're going with this mystery stuff.

1227 That was a typo. It was supposed to say I don't like to....

Anyway yes I liked the case and had Turin in my bottom. I've also since said I'd lynch from Csarmi, Wish (mostly since I don't know how to read her and I did like your case against her), Celeste (for what's been said previously and Pizza's case against her). No longer Nol though.

Nol does bring up an interesting point about Pizza.

I'm leaning more likely Wish than Celeste because I want to give her time.

1231  Except fois the understanding Pizza part this is more where I'm at on Celeste as well.

1234 Well ok then. So Leno, myself, Csarmi, Pral, Nol, and someone else I'm forgetting.

Any one of these are fine.

1244 No longer Nol,but I guess your haven't read that from me yet.

Csarmi I said because he's on my bottom,a null POE. I've said as much.

1299  It's What I got. It's also better than voting a claimed town PR

1302  Pizza: didn't you say you believe Turin's claim or that it at least checks out? Why then not unvote him?

1307  Lol I'm distant? Been around and posted since the started. I've made my opinions known and given reads. You don't think it takes effort to make even a simple reads list? Ok fine there. I don't get the comment though honestly. I was basically saying it was nice that she was making effort to show she's town as I've been asking. If someone isn't going to contribute then they can't expected to be seen as town.

1319 Yeah I agreed with Zander too. I said it was the most effort she'd given so far.

Fair enough I suppose on the rest.

1358 Kay admitted she's lost and sometimes sheeps her town leans.

Nice of you to give thoughts though.

Honestly I'm fine is I'm lynch. I'm lost on who to vote, haven't been able to contribute much and it might help the town win by eliminating an unknown. I'm nor giving up just pointing out facts.

1361 Well Wish hun you don't seem to like anything else said so no surprise there.

As I've said I'm not giving up just seem to be at bottom of a few POE's. I know I'm town but I'm not sure who to vote. Which doesn't help.

1364  Btw I'll be gone for awhile. I don't leave for another 15-30 mins so if anyone has any questions I'm here

1370 Last time I'll say this: I'M NOT GIVING UP.

Ok now maybe that'll sink in. Anyway yes I'll to do that but it'll be later. Pral could be one. Maybe Wish. Cass and Alanna could easily fool me.

I honestly doubt it's Pizza or Zander. To a lesser extent don't think it's Shad.

The others are less certain. Still thinking maybe Csarmi. I don't know.

1372  No worries just frustrated with myself for not having a better handle on things.

1375  I'm not. Then I wouldn't be trying.

1385  I agree with this question.

1389  This made me giggle

1391  Why? I can't remember what you've said about him.

1393  Ok heading out soon, will be back later

 

 

 

Issues one by one.

 

1) See above main point with the issue I'm having with her game. See post 1030, and again in 1112. What she says and who she is are two different things this game. That's the main problem. She isn't struggling at all, in any way other than to place a vote. Otherwise, she's got half the village as clean, and easily so. 1145 she reiterates how she doesn't make solid reads D1.

 

2) "Why are you voting Shad", "Why the unvote?", "You left off Laine, Pizza. Why leave him off?" kind of questions. It reads generically like questions a villager might ask but it never leads to any kind of convictions on the person. Every person towards whom she poses these questions remains null and she doesn't vote that person. So this is essentially filler.

 

3) Posts like 436 which read as smudging someone and painting them as scummy, but being unwilling to actually push there.

 

4) Generally being chummy with everyone like Besie was last game. It's nice but it's also part of a good scum game. 1022-1029 example of this. Playing the role of a mediator and the voice of reason. 448-479 as an example, 683 as a major example. 684, 685. 1022.

 

5) Wants others to make cases and push them, prompts people to do this multiple times, unwilling to do so herself. 1025 is just one example, there are several. 1121 is another example, she says she doesn't want to sheep, but this is contradicted by her behavior so far in letting others push cases while pushing no one herself. Contradictory behavior isn't always scummy, but in this instance, yeah. 1148 is another huge example. 1150. 1152.

 

6) Typical of scumbags, when someone suspects her, she's very curious to know the reason, in just about each and every instance. This happens at least three times that I can recall, check above if you're not sure. This can be a poor indicator, since good villaging tends to ask these questions, but at the same time, I find a correlation. Scumbags always want to know why they're being lynched, nothing infuriates them more than being lynched without making mistakes that they can learn from, or having a case they can defend against. So this alone is not a strong point.

 

7) 1220 is an example of something I actually felt off about at the time. She has me as a strong town read, but has little to say in 1220 except that she likes what Nolder is saying there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think if she's a wolf she's an obvious wolf and it will only get worse over time.

You'd rather hunt the wolves that are still under cover than take the easy lynch.

It makes sense but I think I disagree with it strategically.

 

More specifically, I think she is more likely to be a mislynch than a wolf at the present time, not that she is especially villagery. And that she should get resolved at some point, but when we have more data on her, thus reducing the odds that it is a mislynch.

If she's a villager I don't want to give the wolves a freebie pass to skate through day one hounding someone who can't defend herself.

If she's a wolf, I want people to continue to pay attention to her, resolve her at some point, don't forget about her. Until she starts to shine like a villagery beacon, she should be in the POE.

I just think it's not the best move to make her first in the POE.

And if she's a wolf, I understand how this looks. I will be dead before I get mislynched over this if she is a wolf.

Ok I'm glad I went back to reread because I knew this post wasn't sitting well with me and I wanted to look over it again.

Nomi is basically agreeing that Celeste looks scummy.

His thought process is if that's WRONG then he wants to give her time to improve and if it's RIGHT it will remain right.

Think about that for a minute. If you think someone is scummy you want to lynch them for what they have or haven't done.

Whatever your reasons are you had them...well for a reason. He seems to be playing on towns fear of mislynching.

Mislynching really isn't a thing when you think about it. You have suspects and at the bottom is the guy who looks the dirtiest.

You get rid of him for a reason. If he's a villager well oh well but he was lynched because he looked like a wolf.

So that's why I don't like this defense of Celeste. Nomi agrees she looks like a wolf...but we shouldn't lynch her. Because mislynches.

I don't like it.

This smells all wrong to me.

I'm liking how you're putting things together here. On your own. I'm willing to see where you're going with this mystery stuff.

 

 

If I'm one of her top town reads, actually her top town read at one point, that this is her only comment on this post is a large incongruity.

 

So if she's not actually absorbing and then challenging the statements made by people who disagree with her, nor is it actually changing her mind, what is she doing here?

 

Answer: Handing out gold stars to people to thank them for their villaging efforts.

 

Something a wolf would do way more often than a villager. A villager would actually have an opinion and talk to Nolder about it to resolve the difference between her strong villager read on me and Nolder's work painting me as scum.

 

 

That's the long-and-not-dirty version.

 

 

Before I lynch Kaylee today I want to check into that village game of hers that was linked, to resolve my biggest and most salient point about her play.

 

If that's how she villages then it's null. But I don't recognize that as typical villaging from essentially anyone I've ever played with.

 

Not in this game, not in any game. So she'd be a pretty special butterfly if that's her typical behavior.

1) I am struggling. I'm struggling not to have more solid reads and yes where to vote. Typical of my D1.

 

2) I don't like seeing votes without explanation. I asked other questions hoping it would help me solve slots better.

 

3) not sure what you mean, no post numbers on mobile. I wasn't intending to "smear" anyone. If I feel someone is scummy I'll say so. Unfortunately I've been less sure and trying to not just sheep.

 

4) can't really argue on that.

 

5) It's not that I'm unwilling or refused to do so. I've explained this recently in fact. I wanted to know what they had to say to either figure them out or help me figure someone else out.

 

6) I'm having a hard time so basically I want to know how to play better. Horrible defense here but it's the truth.

 

7) I liked what he had to say. Simple. I was Reserving judgement on him since I thought he was on his scum meta. I didn't want to say as much until I was sure. I no longer think that. Yes I think you're town. I've said why.

 

Typically I try not to be so wishy washy. I'm just not sure who the scum are. I'm sure I'm misclearing someone. I don't know who. Who should we lynch today? I don't know. I felt the worst about Turin, but I don't lynch claimed PR. Not on D1 when it should be clear later if he's telling the truth.

[Kaylee]

 

Kaylee scum: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/81647-the-hunger-games-mafia-advanced-game-over-town-and-tg-wins/

Kaylee town: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/84758-basic-die-hard-for-mafia-game-thread/

 

 

Page 10 of her town game and I'm already seeing huge, radical differences of the sort I mentioned.

 

She's been far more aggressive and has actually cautioned against putting people villagery that eary, and hasn't given any town reads at all.

 

That's 3 very big differences, one of them a fundamental aspect of her villaging game.

 

Let's continue.

I was more confident that game. Yeah I agreed this one I've not been confident or town telling as well as I should.

[Nolder]

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

 

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

Excuse me. Escape from the Carnival of Horrors was an excellent game.

[csarmi]

Zanny is such a nice girl.

 

10/10 would not lynch

 

 

yet

cause he's entertaining

 

seriously she's on fire

 

This Zan is on fire with passionate love

 

 

[csarmi]

 

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

 

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

Excuse me. Escape from the Carnival of Horrors was an excellent game.

 

I didn't say it wasn't excellent. I said it was weird. Probably.

[Nolder]

SUMMARY:

 

She has shades of finding villagers in her village game, but her behavior pattern is still about 90% different than this game.

 

I do not buy she makes the progression from the two linked villager games, one of them from this past year, to this game.

 

She doesn't read like a villager who is not in the know in this game.

 

She's far less aggressive. She doesn't wield her vote like a cudgel like you're supposed to. She's not casing people really, or pushing them.

 

She's not paranoid enough. She's too linear.

 

Kaylee, you got some splainin to do.

 

Vote: Kaylee

I dunno...I see your point but I also think that a villager is capable of doing this.

Maybe she usually does struggle Day 1 but this game turned out to be an exception you know?

There are a lot of things that could explain this other than her being obvscum.

 

I'll wait to see what she has to say I guess.

[Kaylee]

Do we have a more recent game on Kaylee?

 

 

This is condemning stuff but it's over 2 years old. I need a more recent villager game from Kaylee to see if she's changed her style closer to the one displayed this game.

 

I changed my style too, about a year and a half ago.

No I took time off to have a baby. I was more confident that game. This one I just can't seem to pin down wolves. Since then I've learned the value of finding \trusting townies. I prefer not to throw my vote around as that got me mislynched.

[Kaylee]

She's multiquoting and pushing her own cases.

I said in sign ups I wouldn't be doing that this game. Don't have that kind of time.

[Nolder]

 

The point is that we should be able to count on fellow town members to be here when we need them. If they can't do that, or are scum, we should lynch them. But FFS, let them get caught up and give them a chance first, please.

 

prolly a post Town!Alanna makes.  Cause jumping on inactives is a pretty easy thing for Scum to do on D1.

 

Here we go...

 

Go ahead and just use me as a punching bag.

No, really all of you just get it over.

Because this is the last god damn game I will even talk about inactives with anyone.

The next time anyone even thinks about saying "oh but Nolder usually pushes inactives so it's weird for him not to" don't because I will tell you to shut the hell up.

 

I don't mind it being my meta that I push inactives but not the way you all treat me because of it.

You expect me to do this thing which gets me bitched at and/or lynched almost every game I do it in and now if I don't do it it's weird and I'm off my meta.

Well now you know why I stopped pushing inactives in most cases because this is what happens.

 

You can all just policy lynch me from now on I don't care. I'm done.

[Zander?]

 

@Pizza Is it her saying fair enough and not really having a stance on much. (Bah I should be asleep)

If so that's not a good one as I do that as either alignment... Speaking to the fair enough part. I have taken a stance on a lot actually so no. Please continue as this will be telling.

 

 

 

what stances have you really taken?

[Nolder]

 

 

 

Pralaya, I understand you're still catching up, but something still bothers me about you.

 

No one else has read Turin as town based on his posting within the first 20ish or so pages. How are you doing this?

 

This may be just my paranoia, but it seems to me that it's easier to look at his hardclaim and then read everyone else in relation to that hardclaim.

 

Maybe because I have played with Turin more than most of the people in this game? I have been mason with him, have been mafia with him and I have a general sense of his game

 

Maybe because I don't see the same things that other people see. Like I had Nolder, Cory as scum in the Matrix game when everyone had them as town. 

 

Can I prove that I didn't encounter the hardclaim when I posted? I cannot. I didn't see it when I gave my reads and that is all I can say.

 

 

Dont mind the first line.

 

Nolder wasnt Scum in Matrix.

 

Last line is kinda Meh.  Its why I asked Pral about his read on Turin.

 

Heh, I meant you, not Nolder. Your name rhymes, you know.

 

Nolder and Zander do not rhyme.

[Kaylee]

I do not believe a confident player who had an aggressive but pleasant style regresses to being timid.

 

She'd have to have like a string of straight losses for like a year to have this much doubt in her ability to hunt scums on her own.

Nope, just listened to people who say I need to be better. This is an off game, I've worked on changing my style and I'm trying. The problem I'm having is the wolves are doing well this game and I'm used to seeing at least one thing that I can latch onto. Something that has me convinced they're scum. I'm not there.

 

 

Despite the outcome: Pizza is still coming across as town. He's going after me, who doesn't look good, he's following what he feels is a good lead. Please keep this in mind if I get lynched. One mislynch shouldn't make the town doubt a strong player. If I'm wrong about him then I hope he goes down and fast... But this feels genuine.

[Kaylee]

 

Even as scum why would one person mentioning me make me want to divert attention? It wouldn't as that would only draw attention to myself. I don't play that paranoid...at least not for quite some time now.

 

Quote from the other game.

 

Yeah, see right here, I don't think town-Kaylee should care as much that she's been POE'd this game.

 

Like, Nolder tried to put suspicion on me and I barely cared. This is normal. Basically every time Kaylee's been put forth as a candidate she's almost immediately wanted to know why.

You've got a good point. I've tried not caring but I'm trying to come across as the townie I am. I get curious what I'm doing wrong and want to fix it.

[Nolder]

Page 83.  If Pizza is Scum he deserves to win this game.  Only way I EVEN consider voting him is if hes still alive coming down to end game.

That's unfortunate.

I'm still pretty convinced he's scum.

He came out of nowhere with this Kaylee thing because he suddenly "noticed" something but who was he going to case before that happened?

If Kaylee doesn't gain enough traction will he switch to his #2? Is he going to tunnel Kaylee now that he thinks he's got her?

 

There are a lot of aspects about his case I don't like.

And that's in addition to the other things I don't like about his play so far. 

[Zander?]

 

 

The more I'm reading that ISO, the more it makes me think she's town. I dunno what you're seeing, but this is classic and pure town!Kaylee process here.

 

Then I definitely want to hear more from you after this part is done.

 

If you know Kaylee, you should be able to tell me after the reveal if it's rampant werewolf disease or completely normal Kaylee.

Still not a wolf. Actually I've been trying to as transparent as possible. I've kept emotions out for the most part and that's unlike me.

 

 

 

Kay my dear instead of just responding with Im Town and Im not a Wolf.  Try digging in some more to show it instead of just saying the words.

[Kaylee]

SUMMARY:

She has shades of finding villagers in her village game, but her behavior pattern is still about 90% different than this game.

I do not buy she makes the progression from the two linked villager games, one of them from this past year, to this game.

She doesn't read like a villager who is not in the know in this game.

She's far less aggressive. She doesn't wield her vote like a cudgel like you're supposed to. She's not casing people really, or pushing them.

She's not paranoid enough. She's too linear.

Kaylee, you got some splainin to do.

 

Vote: Kaylee

I haven't felt confident enough to case anyone. I've agreed with cases made while I was sleeping... Believe

Hence saying as much.

[Nolder]

I caught up to page 50. Good lord, this is getting hard. 35 more to go? Doubt I will be able to read full before deadline.

 

I still have Kaylee and Len as scum.

 

I liked Shad's reasoning about Celeste being town because of Wish's comments on her. I don't think wish/celeste is w/w at all.

Do you have any further thoughts?

 

I admire your catching up, really I do.

If it's legit which I think it is.

But in order for it to matter to any of us we need more from you.

[Kaylee]

All the other points in my case against her (the detailed ISO) still stand as well.

 

My thinking is, she's playing the diplomat and mediator role, and has been doing so all game as a way of avoiding getting on people's bad sides.

 

She is playing at her self-described weakness at solving on day one, but in the past two villager games linked by Csarmi, she was far more aggressive in each one.

 

Therefore she's using it as an excuse, rather than it actually being a reason, for her lack of assertiveness.

 

She's buttering us up. Trying to pocket people.

OMG no I'm not! Just having an off game.

[Nolder]

 

 

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

 

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

Excuse me. Escape from the Carnival of Horrors was an excellent game.

 

I didn't say it wasn't excellent. I said it was weird. Probably.

 

Ok maybe a little.

[Zander?]

Hello, I am here and have caught up (read everything). Currently am on mobile so cannot multiquote.

 

Okay, so it looks like people don't want to lynch Pralaya today. Is it to give him a chance as an inactive?

 

And irt Zander/Turin accusations about me: one being that I haven't been actually analyzing Celeste off her actual post content... It's because I can't really do that if she doesn't make post content. I can definitely go and ISO her, and this sounds like something you will not swallow, but I do not see the need to when I can read her off her first few posts. I've not been wrong about her town game in a long time. You can believe this or not. Unless I get a cookie and a pat on the head, there's no need to do this.

Zander accusations I've already addressed. Several times, over and over again.

 

 

Great way to lock clear someone......loloololololololol

[Nolder]

Ok I'm caught up.

 

I'm not convinced by the case on Kaylee.

 

Don't want to discuss inactives anymore.

 

Want more from Pral.

[Nolder]

I'm going to post a reads list.

[Kaylee]

back for a few minutes. Had more business to attend to. I will try to address questions I remember from before. If I miss something let me know and I will try to answer in the time I have. 

 

Turin: why should Wish be the lynch today? Has he recent posts changed your view of her?  My personal suspicions come from the weird interaction with her and Celeste. Adding into that is  case that Zander put together on her. Some thought she replied well but most of what I recall of her rebuttal was that she knew Celeste better than anyone else so she was just right. The one thing she never put out to my knowledge was real evidence of Celeste's thought process in this game, or really in any game. Recent posts give me some pause. Her being part of my conspiracy theory group of Pizza, Shad,  Alanna and Wish may be clouding my thoughts. Why she should be lynched today is because I think that she has >rand chance of being a wolf. If not her then I would like to lynch from the 4 I mentioned earlier in this paragraph. 

 

Alanna asked why I couldn't / wasn't town telling. I may be rusty as I have been away a while. I have also been busier than expected so haven't been able to be up to date and in thread as much as I would have preferred. 

 

My primary WTL is Shad, Alanna, Wish and Pizza. it is most likely that not all 4 would be mafia but I think some of them are taking advantage of others to get first me and then planning on Celeste lynched. I have some thoguht that my calling of the second thing caused a change of target. 

 

I think it was shad that earlier made two listings of 3 people for mafia. If anyone could pull those up I would appreciate as I had an odd thought about them. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that I missed some things so if anyone wants to talk, I'm here for about an hour.

I don't see it being Alanna or Pizza, I just think they've been working too hard to hunt wolves. Maybe Wish but I have liked her responses.

[Nolder]

Town

Csarmi

Alanna

Lenlo

 

Null

Xander

Turin (claims Doc)

Wish

Pral

Kaylee

Shad

 

Scum

Nomi

Celeste

Cass