[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Shad_]

I actually kind of doubt that Tab is Godfather based on your willingness to lynch her D1.  Possible.  Not likely, when you knew she was a viable N1 peek.

I don't even know that she's scum. The whole set-up could be faked. You could be posturing the link theory with the knowledge that it will fall through.  It would secure a mislynch and make it look like your reads were wrong in an honest sort of way.  The point is that you flipping scum does not clear her.  I think you are scum either way, and her flipping villa today would not make me hesitate for a second to vote you tomorrow.

[Shad_]

I can argue against your longer post later if I'm feeling up to it.  Right now, I'm really not.  Your behavior earlier was not consistent with your town game in pretty telling ways.  You've aligned yourself more with your town game tunnel-wise since, but your points are still far-reaching crap.  You're outed scum as far as I'm concerned.  I respect your ability to put up a fight, and you might have more energy to sustain it at the moment, but that doesn't change your alignment. 

[Shad_]

And if you're somehow inexplicably villa I'm giving you a big manhug after this game while we weep at our abysmal loss.  <_<

[Shad_]

AJ is the optimal lynch.  He goes down today, we peek or lynch Tab tomorrow, could be in a good position.  If Tab happens to be town and AJ manages to bully me down tomorrow, he'll be policy lynched D4, but 1 scum in 4 lynches is crap.

[Lenlo]

Im not betting Tab on a peek that doesnt even need to be done. Lynch Tab, let AJ be decided by peek. The odds of a godfather are the same and honestly AJ is the more valuable player.

[Shad_]

 

Also, I feel that AJ is someone who has a great deal of experience playing with me.  He has explained what he thought I was doing at EoD if I am scum.  It reads to me as something which might make sense in a fill in the blank sort of way.  AJ, I would like to hear you provide a more meta-based interpretation of my behavior at EoD.

 

I see where you're going with this, but before we head down that path let me point something out for you and the rest of us.

 

shad

08-05-2015

05:28 PM ET (US)

 

Darthe definitely. Dice worries me most after him, and maybe Sooh though she was scum in the other games I've played with her so I don't fully know what to expect. I think I can probably feed Laine and BFG the town tells they'll be looking for out of me.

 

You were saying?

 

 

 

It's kind of simple.

 

Shad wants me to build a case on him being scum using meta. I pulled that quote to show that he understands the concept of perception and how to manipulate his behavior in a way that will get him town read by certain players. I think it's wolfy for him to ask me that sort of question when I believe his defense will be to point at other games, most likely town games, to provide some sort of proof for his EOD stunt.

 

There are several instances in this game from D1 where I noticed him hitting little checkboxes when it comes to our dynamic together, IE - he wants to use meta as a defense but clearly he knows how to act accordingly.

 

When has AJ done anything like this as town??  Seriously, if someone can show me an example I'm all ears.  wtf is this garbage of 'I'm not going to apply meta at Shad because Shad thinks he's good at replicating his meta'?

[Shad_]

And the whole business of digging up a QT quote and "you were saying?" like any player in this game had a clue what that might mean before he was asked to explain himself.  It reeks of someone digging for a fake argument.  Do you really think AJ's thought process here stems from honest scum hunting?  Do you see how deep he was digging to come up with some sort of justification to call me scum?

[Lenlo]

Both of your arguments reach in a number of directions. As one of the only active people playing this game I basically have to sort it out on my own. I really dont feel like doing that tonight, so unless I suddenly decide to down the remains of my roommates bottle of Jim Bean and go crazy, I am staying on Tab because she is the best lynch today.

[Shad_]

And yet he's voting Tab.  A day and a half to deadline and he's already switched back to voting Tab.  What was the source of his read on Tab again?  He's acting like I'm scum 100% here.  Did he feel that strongly about her?  It seems to me that his main line is Tab has to be scum because Shad is scum, but he wants to lynch Tab first to prove it??  And then he makes his Tab must be Godfather case later once Dice calls him out on this inconsistency.  If this argument had actually crossed AJ's mind when he switched votes he would have said so at the time.

[Shad_]

Both of your arguments reach in a number of directions. As one of the only active people playing this game I basically have to sort it out on my own. I really dont feel like doing that tonight, so unless I suddenly decide to down the remains of my roommates bottle of Jim Bean and go crazy, I am staying on Tab because she is the best lynch today.

 

Eh, I recognize AJ's lynch today is less likely than Tab's.  I'm still going to push for it.  If I'm reaching a point where I'm just being annoying then it's probably counterproductive, but I'm pretty damn convinced on this one.

[Lenlo]

To me, your bein kinda annoying. Alot of it is reiterating points youve already made. I know you think AJ is scum, I know AJ thinks your scum, I know Nolder thinks im scum, I know I think Nolder is scum, I know NotBob knows this game exists, I know Pizza is wordy and I know my flatmates choice of alcohol is horrible. Most of that doesnt really matter how this day should go down though.

 

As I said, you want Tab to be cleared by lynch or peek after AJ. Im voting on clearing her by lynch and then hoping AJ or you gets peeked and make my job alot easier. You guys are both more valuable than Tab as a player right now, so I would like to have as much time and as many resources as I can to GET THIS RIGHT and not lose a valuable towny.

[Shad_]

And the whole business of digging up a QT quote and "you were saying?" like any player in this game had a clue what that might mean before he was asked to explain himself.  It reeks of someone digging for a fake argument.  Do you really think AJ's thought process here stems from honest scum hunting?  Do you see how deep he was digging to come up with some sort of justification to call me scum?

 

Seriously.  AJ calls things straight.  He sees something scummy, he calls it scummy.  When does he ever prep people with some big obscure lead in?

[Nolder]

Shad I'm gonna be honest here, your posts are really long and boring when it comes to AJ.

I already think you're wrong about him based on my own read so my eyes just glaze over when I try to read your case.

I'll read it eventually, maybe, if it becomes relevant in like 3 game days. But if you want me to pay attention now could you shrink it or summarize it or something?

[dicetosser1]

Nolder    leave ure lenlo read aside willya and just read him on this page. tell me what you think

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hi Dice.

 

It looks like we're going to be weird-hours-of-the-day-buddies from now on. Working on a post right now.

[dicetosser1]

yep we are but it will be nice to have real time chat for once

[Nolder]

Nolder    leave ure lenlo read aside willya and just read him on this page. tell me what you think

I wouldn't want to judge anyone on only 3 posts.

[dicetosser1]

just judge the three posts. thats it.  do they sound towny mindset? mafia mindset? neither?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think it is fair to read alignment based on a single post, if it's strong enough.

 

Zander had something I felt contra-indicated a townie mindset, but that and my earlier vague unease about him were trumped by a single post.

 

If the post is townie enough, it should override your vague lean, because it's specifically townie.

 

The same is true enough for scum behavior. One post or one short cluster of posts by BFG shot her to my top scum lean.

 

This is also the method I use to generate an overall lean to begin with. As I analyze, each post is null, or makes me feel some type of way. And I paint it in a color so I can remember where those feelings originated and I can explain it to others.

 

Long story short, it's a worthy exercise.

[Nolder]

I don't feel like I can make a serious determination either way.

These aren't even 3 posts that stand out to me in general.

They're just...there. I dunno.

[dicetosser1]

reason i pointed them out are that he has pulled posts like this since early game. Its town mindset and tone. things like this are why i have him as town.

[Nolder]

Really? Those posts don't stand out to me.

Maybe you're more in tune with what you're calling "tone" than I am I dunno.

[dicetosser1]

ok  just thought id show you

[Askthepizzaguy]

This post is too large for most people to try to read, and impossible to give quote-then-response to. So it's going to be several posts, numbered.

 

 

 

__________________________

 

23 hours have passed, and there have been four pages of discussion. These players are the reason why the thread has moved so little in my absence:
 
Thane: excused absence. There's really zero possibility he can have a meaningful read on the game, even if he read every single post up to this point. He would generally have to speed-read, and the essence of the moment is lost. You're not getting a feel for the timing of the posts, the tension of the moment. It really harms your read. This wouldn't be the end of the world, except:
 
Taborline: unexcused absence. There's no excuse for this level of nothingness. Wolf in anti-spew is the conclusion I have to draw here, because a townie should have checked in with any thoughts. Should have, would have I feel. That said, as I mentioned, I just went through several games in a row where townies just flat-out abandoned their duties. I just thought this website was better.
 
BFG checks in briefly, doesn't give a whole lot of content. Explains that she usually votes late in the round. So I want to talk about that.
 

[Askthepizzaguy]

@BFG,  Gonna break this up into numbered sections.
 
1)
 
6 minutes to deadline is a little late for me, my friend. That's not just late in the round, that's a whole different category of late, and I'm not a strong believer in coincidences. That's avoiding repercussions for your vote as much as possible. Repercussions being: someone being able to read your intentions, or OMGUS voting. John Snow had precisely zero opportunity to defend himself from your voting intention. Townies die, and the dead are silent and cannot strike back.
 
If you are a townie, you must understand how insanely wolfy that kind of voting strategy is. And you can get away with it because it's your meta? Not this time. I'm not John Snow, and I'm not fully cleared mechanically, but on behalf of any townie who goes down in that manner:
 
You voted a person who was afk, with 6 minutes remaining in the round. He doesn't have a fair chance to claim, if he's a town power role, which he was.
 
You seemingly waited until Shad already decided the outcome of the round, placing the fourth vote on John Snow, and then you would have been the fifth, essentially making zero impact on the entire round, and no difference to the outcome, if Shad had kept his vote where it is.
 
That doesn't strike me as the mindset of a person who wants to find and destroy scum, even if they aren't typically an aggressive player, and doesn't pressure vote, you still vote to lynch a scum, (continued...)