[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Nolder]

You're kidding, right?

 

No, all town players are 100% honest 100% of the time.

 

Now go on.

 

Well if you believe that then I have nothing more to say.

[Zander?]

 

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

Awake, caught up.

 

Shad you keep asking me about some follow through or something I don't know what you mean by it.

He was distorting the situation and I explained how. What else are you looking for?

You said he was trying to distort the situation. You implied intent. Then said you were still making up your mind about him. That doesn't jive. I wanted to see if you'd say it was a reaction test. You didn't.

 

Are you trying to say townies never distort or lie?

 

 

 

Confusing the generic with the specific.

 

That's another tactic I recognize as scummy.

 

You're picking at my finding NotBob suspicious because of his position on you, which I had as strongly scummy and his was "null", as opposed to finding NotBob suspicious because of his position on AJ, which I had as mildly suspicious and his was "null".

 

It's obvious why one would be more concerned about the stronger disagreement, and the pressure on NotBob exists.

 

So to claim that it's an example of inconsistency, is wrong and scummy. It's distortion at best.

 

Behaving like the last game you were in where you were total scum, and wildly differently from the last game I could find where you were townie, that's a legit problem.

 

The kinds of consistency arguments I find scummy are the former, not the latter.

 

And it should be obvious why. It's not a mistake that you're confusing the two examples. That's deliberate on your part, and it's a scummy argument.

I'm picking on your position on Notbob because it's crap.

 

Again, you're creating a false dichotomy where the results are both favorable to your argument.

There is another possibility that you aren't allowing into the discussion with regards to Notbob.

 

That aside though, what you're saying here is true so I don't get why you think using it as a defense is a good idea.

You find Notbob suspicious because of his position that's in disagreement with you on me but not where he's in disagreement with you on AJ.

I don't see why it would make any difference whether you find me a lot scummy and AJ a little scummy because the subject of the discussion here is Notbob and why you're reading him the way you do.

 

Claiming it as inconsistency is not wrong nor is it distortion and you can think what you want about being scummy or not but usually when someone is right that's not scummy so I don't know where you're trying to go with that other than trying to call me scum as many times as you can and hope it sticks in the minds of others. It is inconsistent to be suspicious of Notbob for disagreeing with you on one person and not another. Simple fact. You sir are the one who's trying to distort the situation.

 

Looking back on it, what strikes you as town intentionally lying?

 

Ah ah ah I asked first my friend. Do townies never lie or distort?

 

You're kidding, right?

 

No, all town players are 100% honest 100% of the time.

 

Now go on.

 

 

You're kidding, right?

 

No, all town players are 100% honest 100% of the time.

 

Now go on.

Well if you believe that then I have nothing more to say.

 

 

That's very convenient. Now answer my question.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ure getting on my nerves shad

 

I'm sorry.  I'm sufficiently indecisive to not care which one of them eats it, and I have more than sufficient town cred at this point that no one who looks back more than a few pages is going to suss me for playing some EoD games that could be potentially revealing depending on reactions/flip.

 

 

I disagree

 

 

strongly

 

 

Go on?

 

 I do hence why I strongly disagree.

 

 

I meant like, with reasons.

 

 

 

You EoD was horrible I dont think it s needs any more explaining. 

 

 

Why?

 

 

Your vote on John Snow then switch knowingly without unvoting Tab.  You didnt vote at EoD and your response to my SW comment and your refusal to even really evaluate my case on Tab.  That's just off the top of my head.

 

 

Before you realized that I had not unvoted, how did you feel about my vote on Tab?

 

 

better then I did when you started the rest of that crap.

 

Can I finally lock you in as town?

[Nolder]

Your question is predicated on the idea that I caught him in an out and out lie. I never said that nor did I mean to imply it if that's what you got. I said he was distorting the issue.

[Nolder]

Re: convenience

 

This coming from the guy with the naivete to believe that town always tells the truth. 

I don't actually believe you believe this but I'm not going to bother arguing the point if that's what you want to pretend your position is.

Talk about convenient.

[Lenlo]

At some point im going to go back and count how many times you have said you "are not going to bother arguing a point", cause I am curious how many times you have actually addressed things thrown at you and how many times you have run away.

[Nolder]

At some point im going to go back and count how many times you have said you "are not going to bother arguing a point", cause I am curious how many times you have actually addressed things thrown at you and how many times you have run away.

I'm not the one running away in this case but ok dude.

[Shad_]

I think scum!Zander sees me appear to fumble and either 1) defends me because he's had a great deal of success buddying me in the past or else 2) starts digging up dirt to build a case because omg maybe we can actually mislynch Shad instead of having to night kill him.

Zander didn't really pursue either of those here. If he was scum, I think he would have quickly noted his original reason to feel leery about me and brought that to the table.

It was this:
 

 

 

 

 

Humor me please?

AJ took Nolder out of the picture by ensuring Tab would have four votes if Snow doesn't go down. I'm torn between Nolder and Snow but I would lynch either of them over Tab, so Snow it is.

 

So in theory if I switched to Nolder you'd vote there?

 

No. In reality I have no clue who I want to lynch but AJ made the decision easy for me.

 

fwiw youre starting to worry me a bit.

 

In a very simple sense, it looked like I was passing the buck onto AJ for my involvement in Snow's lynch. A reasonable thing to be concerned with--even moreso now that Snow is confirmed town.

So I quoted Zander encouraging us to lynch Tab and fake-voted her essentially on the grounds that Zander told me to. A similar 'absolving guilt' move, this one probably obviously contrived to some of you. Zander seemed pretty accepting of that vote.  I'm kind of null on that in the moment, since Zander tends to get excited when people follow his lead regardless of his alignment.  But I think that if his initial concerns with my Snow vote were faked, he wouldn't so readily forget them after my shenanigans.  I think he's authentically jarred by the fake vote and the unvote, not digging for dirt here.  I mean, what is easier mislynch fodder: a town whose vote explanation can be easily spun to "don't hold me a accountable if the flip is town", or a town who they know is pulling some sort of unpredictable trick move?  But the impression I get is that Zander isn't stopping to think about it; he's not jumping on an opportunity to build a case on me.  Rather, he seems to be in the irritable state of having both lynched a townie and lost a stronger town read back down into the POE.  I think I can safely cross him off of my suspect list.

[Lenlo]

Your question is predicated on the idea that I caught him in an out and out lie. I never said that nor did I mean to imply it if that's what you got. I said he was distorting the issue.

Seems like your running away right here, by not answering his question. You instead attack the reason he asked the question, not the question itself.

[Shad_]

Your question is predicated on the idea that I caught him in an out and out lie. I never said that nor did I mean to imply it if that's what you got. I said he was distorting the issue.

Simple fact. You sir are the one who's trying to distort the situation.

The second quote is what I specifically highlighted and asked you about. If you simply worded it poorly, I don't know why you couldn't have just come out and said so in the first place.

[Shad_]

Oh god this feels like my Caulder battle.

[Shad_]

Re: convenience

 

This coming from the guy with the naivete to believe that town always tells the truth. 

I don't actually believe you believe this but I'm not going to bother arguing the point if that's what you want to pretend your position is.

Talk about convenient.

 

Of course I don't believe that.  I'm also your top town read last I checked, and I feel like there is a bit of a disconnect between how you've said you feel about my slot and the sort of attitude you've been approaching me with in this conversation.

 

That being said, I don't remember you being nearly so chippy in AoL.

 

What was the point of you wanting me to state whether I believed town could intentionally lie before you would address my question?

[Shad_]

Checking out of the game for the night.

[Nolder]

 

Your question is predicated on the idea that I caught him in an out and out lie. I never said that nor did I mean to imply it if that's what you got. I said he was distorting the issue.

Simple fact. You sir are the one who's trying to distort the situation.

The second quote is what I specifically highlighted and asked you about. If you simply worded it poorly, I don't know why you couldn't have just come out and said so in the first place.

 

First of all I didn't word it poorly I said what I said and I meant it. 

Secondly you were asking me for a "follow through" or whatever.

I don't know what that means nor do I know what you're looking for.

You are the one who could be clearer here imo.

 

 

Re: convenience

 

This coming from the guy with the naivete to believe that town always tells the truth. 

I don't actually believe you believe this but I'm not going to bother arguing the point if that's what you want to pretend your position is.

Talk about convenient.

 

Of course I don't believe that.

 

Oh, so you lied just to shove off what I was talking about and to get your question answered first.

That's low. I mean even in a game of lying I kind of expect most people to stick to some modicum of etiquette when it comes to conversation.

Maybe that just makes me the fool to think even some people would respect such things.

 

 

I'm also your top town read last I checked, and I feel like there is a bit of a disconnect between how you've said you feel about my slot and the sort of attitude you've been approaching me with in this conversation.

This is why I don't like giving reads on D1.

They change quickly and aren't reliable.

If you think there's a disconnect I think it comes from how you've been treating me in the course of this conversation more so than anything else.

 

That being said, I don't remember you being nearly so chippy in AoL.

Chippy?

 

What was the point of you wanting me to state whether I believed town could intentionally lie before you would address my question?

What do you care? You lied to stop me from making my point and now you want to hear it? Shove off.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Taborline, BFG, Thane, Shad?

 

Is this your scum list?

 

 

These were the people inexplicably not voting at the time.

 

I don't like it when folks reserve their vote intention to the last minute. Shad looks like a townie, no idea who these other people are but voting townies weren't a label I could apply to any of them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Dice, I need your help on my suspects tomorrow.

 

Taborline can be the lynchee, with Nolder being a nice alternate in case she comes up with a reason for abandoning us that we can swallow.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also, I need people willing to commit to lynch Thane, despite his IRL difficulties posting, he can be a scum and IMO is likelier to be one than most of you.

 

You have to bite the bullet and lynch him.

[dicetosser1]

pizza do me a fava?

 

list ure scum reads in order plz with one sentence why.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

Taborline, BFG, Thane, Shad?

 

Is this your scum list?

 

 

These were the people inexplicably not voting at the time.

 

I don't like it when folks reserve their vote intention to the last minute. Shad looks like a townie, no idea who these other people are but voting townies weren't a label I could apply to any of them.

 

 

OK.  So minus Shad you's like to see the alignment of these three mopes?

[Taborline]

I really really hate bringing this up because i truly hate it but if I get NK'd tonight it needs to be said.  Tab was online and checking this thread at least 3 times this afternoon and evening that i saw.  I didnt wanna bring it up cause I thought the lynch was gonna go that way but...it didn't.  I follow things quite closely while playing hence why I switched my sign in to anonymous round Bellicheat.

 

I'm sorry to bring it up Tab but it's the truth.

 

Don't apologise, it's the truth. I kind of hoped I'd go, as I won't have next to any time to commit to the game until after Friday due to sudden work commitments, and the best I could give you as a rebuttal yesterday was "Don't bother, I'm town".

 

And all I can give you this morning is that I don't feel good about Nolder, Lenlo and Thane, based on their interactions yesterday. I didn't like the way Nolder called out Thane as his very first game related post, putting words in his mouth, and continued to kind of go after him but allowing for his inactivity because he said he wouldn't be around much until D2. Then Nolder's back and forth with Lenlo felt off, both Nolder's pushing Len from the beginning (his post about fence sitting in the same first game related post about Thane), and Lenlo's skirting issues by saying things like "I dunno, like, I sometimes worry that he is hiding something behind all those words. I know its stupid, which is why I havnt even tried to build a case or anything off of it, but its in the back of my mind every time I read him."

 

One of Nolder and Lenlo is probably scum.

[Nolder]

Eh? I said one thing about Thane. I didn't return to him until I gave my reads list.

 

Also, so you think I have a point about Lenlo hedging AND Thane (why do you feel bad about Thane?) but you still feel bad about me?

[Taborline]

Sorry, I tend to not be clear on these things. I don't think it's all of you, but someone among you.

 

You didn't say much about Thane, no, but what you did say felt disproportionate to what he'd done. I had read his original "wolfie..." post as being more jokey than actually calling Pizza out, and so your cutting him slack for inactivity, coupled with suspicion on him for that post pinged me. If you do end up flipping scum, it would make me feel worse about Thane, hence my wondering about him too.

 

But mainly it's between you and Lenlo for me.

[Nolder]

That's fair. I may have been harder on him than the comment deserved due to coming into the game under pressure.

He said he'd be around more during D2 so maybe we can get a better idea as we go on.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ure getting on my nerves shad

 

I'm sorry.  I'm sufficiently indecisive to not care which one of them eats it, and I have more than sufficient town cred at this point that no one who looks back more than a few pages is going to suss me for playing some EoD games that could be potentially revealing depending on reactions/flip.

 

 

I disagree

 

 

strongly

 

 

Go on?

 

 I do hence why I strongly disagree.

 

 

I meant like, with reasons.

 

 

 

You EoD was horrible I dont think it s needs any more explaining. 

 

 

Why?

 

 

Your vote on John Snow then switch knowingly without unvoting Tab.  You didnt vote at EoD and your response to my SW comment and your refusal to even really evaluate my case on Tab.  That's just off the top of my head.

 

 

Before you realized that I had not unvoted, how did you feel about my vote on Tab?

 

 

better then I did when you started the rest of that crap.

 

Can I finally lock you in as town?

 

 

Im gonna assume this doesnt need an answer but I feel like you prolly should have before this imo.