[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Lenlo]

Zander always professes to have randed town at the start of the game so thats nothing new. Can you show me the quotes of all 3 times he has said it, cause I admittedly havnt kept count.

[John Snow]

-snip-

I'm doing everything I can to summon my WIM cause I actually randed Town this time and trying to get into the game full swing.  

-snip-

 

 

-snip-

Im 100% Town this game and I'm ready willing and able to prove that to everyone!!!

 

 

 

Im Town again sweet

-snip

 

 

Off of a quick skim of his ISO. 

[Nolder]

What?

 

It's not like I was asking for a deadline.

I was confused by Leelou's rules.

[John Snow]

What?

 

It's not like I was asking for a deadline.

I was confused by Leelou's rules.

 

I was being half sarcastic, if that didn't come across. Slightly serious though since we got set a DL after that. 

[Nolder]

Oh ok, yeah it didn't come across.

[Andrej]

@Snowman - are you saying Zander is scummy because he's calling himself town or how he's doing it?

 

Because the first one is not a very good reason to be voting someone. It's null at best pretty much across the board.

[Andrej]

The second one really isn't a good reason either, actually.

 

It's one of those indefensible type arguments for Zander and one you can't really explain with tangible evidence.

 

Pretty sketchy my friend.

[Andrej]

 

 

Nolder is awesome. It's such a shame he's mafia this time.

 

Vote: Nolder

 

wolfie...

 

Little early to jump to someone's defense isn't it?

Now here's the part where you say "well I was just talking about his lack of reasoning".

Sure, sure you were. Well unfortunately for you you didn't say so.

 

-1

 

 

Or he could actually just think I'm null. That's not a possibility you're allowing and it's unfair to the analysis.

 

The first embedded bit isn't bad.

 

The bolded part was something I was actually hoping NotBob would say, as I stated earlier about not wanting to write his defense for him. It was something that I considered when evaluating Pizza's case earlier but I disagree with you that Pizza was necessarily wrong for pointing it out.

 

 

 

It's not a mistake that you're confusing the two examples. That's deliberate on your part, and it's a scummy argument

 

Idk what happened to this quote box, but the statement above is from Pizza. I'm sure he'll recognize it

 

Fwiw, this type of thing is usually how I catch Nolder as mafia. The difference here is that I don't feel like he's investing as much energy into pursuing whatever confusion or misunderstanding there was in a negative manner. There have been times, such as AoL that you read, that his 'confusion' would continue for pages and pages and I think part of that was to help make himself look busy and to avoid solving.

 

Overall i think Nolder looks okay now that he's starting to dig in and spread his attention around.

 

About NotBob

 

Pg.8-  Is it bad I wanna town read him from number of posts and tone atp?

 

Yes.

 

Eh, he abused his meta in the matrix game. Im gonna withhold judgement until he comes back with some reads, but I am not going to forget how well you read him in Diablo. I will probably end up deferring to you on the Zander thing unless he does something that really sticks out.

 

You really do have a crap memory, don't you?

 

I defended Zander a lot in that game and was probably one of the bigger reasons why he wasn't lynched D1 since I was pushing so hard for your wagon instead.

 

So no - I wouldn't claim to be a defacto Zander reader

[Andrej]

 

For some reason I keep thinking this is a normal majority hammer game.

 

I could possibly be interested in pursuing any of the middle wagons from the last VC

 

Notbob, Snow or Nolder?

 

I know the first two but whats your problem with Snow? I thought he was pretty good in the beginning. Reminded me of Ragnarok abit.

 

My opinions have changed a little bit since you asked me this, but I'll still answer you nonetheless.

 

NotBob still remains in my orange range. I do think his read on Nolder had/has the potential to mean bad things about NotBob. If it were as simple as him not agreeing with Pizza that early in the game I feel like he could've expressed that better instead of now trying to turn it around to make Pizza look bad.

 

Now that I've looked at Nolder again and read his arguments with you and Pizza again, I actually don't feel that bad about him. He's making good counterpoints that are logical and I get the impression that he's actually being rather objective in his evaluations, at least with Pizza.

 

Snow has sort of been on the back burner for me since the game began. Like I've mentioned a few times, I don't really think the stuff he did at the beginning of the game really warrants the type of credit he's getting because frankly I don't think it accomplished much other than making a show that he was super serious about the game. Laine made a pretty good case on it. I also don't get why he voted me out of the blue and now seemingly can't recall why. His reason for voting Zander also isn't good, imo, and I would say trying to characterize actions that should be considered null as anything else is pretty scummy.

 

BFG you out there? Haven't seen you in awhile.

 

I'm curious why you call her out specifically here when there had been a few others who had also been gone for a while.

 

More seriously I don't have mafia meta on AJ, I'm not sure I've ever played a game when he's been mafia (other than US)

 

Tbh it really just doesn't happen a lot, at least not on DM. I can't allow myself to taint the hallowed grounds of my home forum ;) 

 

but whenever I play elsewhere I tend to almost always draw wolf. It's weird.

 

 

Underwhelmed by NotBob and Nolder's reactions to my cases on them, pretty sure there's at least one wolf contained within. Very satisfied with my D1 so far.

 

In other news, I'd cut Zander a break for a little bit. I know he's out of sorts but I don't think it's alignment indicative at present. I would wager we'll see old Zander back within a few days.

 

weak sauce...looks liked you're pied pipering the town...how is what you've done here any different then me saying Nolder is null?

 

How is it at all similar? 

[Andrej]

I stayed up a bit later than I would've liked to so that I could look at the stuff I wanted to read again on my laptop, but I think my time was well spent anyway.

 

Currently I am wavering on keeping my vote on NotBob or moving it over to Snow.

 

I am not convinced by any measure by NotBob's arguments (or lack thereof) and I think as a villager he would've been more invested to make his POV clear when it isn't a hard one to imagine.

 

I am unnerved by Snow's fast start that has turned into silence lately, and I can't explain how bad I think that vote on Zander is. It reminds me of another game where I caught him as a wolf on D1 for trying to vote someone for similarly poor reasons.

[Zander?]

 

I don't think the length of his posts would be really alignment indicative so I'm not sure what you're asking me

IMO he's still hedging and trying to find out what everyone else thinks before picking a side.

 

 

Are you referring to Pizza her Nolder cause unless memory is not serving me correctly I dont think hes hedging at all on hos thoughts of you and NotBob.  They seem pretty clear.  Can you please show some examples of this if that's who youre talking about? 

[Zander?]

 

Im not misrepping you. Now please, go read through the thread and come back with some content. Gimme your thoughts on the Nolder/NotBob/Pizza situation for instance. Show me the towny in you, instead of whining at me every time I call you scum in a game.

Note this is still without giving his own.

Anyone else see the pattern?

 

 

I thought I saw some comments he made about them.  I'll finish catching up and see what is said here...

[Andrej]

Pizza

Dice

Lenlo

 

BFG

Nolder

Laine

Zander

 

Taborline

Thane

 

John Snow

NotBob

 

I've already touched on my bottom two.

 

Thane and Taborline are orange mostly by virtue of my having stronger town reads on other players and them not really being a part of the thread yet. Looking over the thread again I actually liked Pizza's analysis on Thane around pg14(?) and Nolder calling him out was pretty sharp too. I was too quick to town read him on tone alone in our last outing, so I'm not willing to give him an easy pass again without legitimate substance.

 

Dark greens I'm pretty confident on, I would be surprised if I'm misclearing anywhere there.

 

There's some potential in the lighter section as they aren't particularly strong reads atm, but mostly center around things that I "liked" or noted as positive from these players off the top of my head.

[Zander?]

 

The back and forth you had consisted almost entirely of you arguing about what games he was referencing and which ones he should reference instead. So no, it didnt.

 

My motivation was to get him to lock down his case into something concrete we can reference later so if we lynch you and you flip town, he cant back pedal on his case. By getting him to lock down what it was we make it harder for him in the future to wiggle around.

 

Nolder I have posted my thoughts on the you/Pizza/NotBob situation.

Sniped!

 

Have you? Link or quote please because I don't remember you doing anything but asking others what they thought.

 

 

 

 

Im not misrepping you. Now please, go read through the thread and come back with some content. Gimme your thoughts on the Nolder/NotBob/Pizza situation for instance. Show me the towny in you, instead of whining at me every time I call you scum in a game.

Note this is still without giving his own.

Anyone else see the pattern?

 

 

 

I know this may be just something from my PoV that bothers me.  But why make the seeing a pattern comment without checking to see if its actually a patternt??  That's is pinging me some FWIW. 

[Zander?]

 

 

 

I don't think the length of his posts would be really alignment indicative so I'm not sure what you're asking me

IMO he's still hedging and trying to find out what everyone else thinks before picking a side.

Pizza or Lenlo?

 

Lenlo.

 

 

 

You answered one of my questions with this.

[Zander?]

It's actually taken me all day to catch up with the whole thread, and I still feel like I have very few notes.

 

I feel quite good about Pizza, though I don't really have much meta to go on there. I only played with you once in Mafia, but I don't think I can trust that meta as you were trying to disguise yourself (if your usual post style is like this, long and detailed, then it could have been quite the give away). I do feel like you are putting it out there and solving, though.

 

This post of Lenlo's bothered me a little bit, maybe the way he's interacting with AJ, i.e. "What do you think? I think..." instead of waiting to hear AJ's answer first.

 

 

 

I was teasing about the thinking part, though I'm sure you know that.

 

You're just coming across more... thoughtful/thorough(?) here than in our last game where I mislynched you D1 :(

Its cool. Im not gonna let a deadline sneak up on me this game, and the only final I have left is in a class I have a 96 in so im not stressed about it at all. Im basically already on break. 1 more year and I will be college grad. To bad I gotta prep to try and get into Grad school :P

 

So AJ, what do you think of Pizza? He looks good to me. Hes figuring stuff out, trying to piece it together with what small stuff we have. But hes been kinda focused on Nolder through it all, interacting with others with Nold as the topic. Only game I have had with him was the game he was Nomi in, and as scum we offed him pretty quickly so I dont have a baseline for him.

 

 

Zander feels a bit more subdued than usual, but I think he did say he's busier now than usual as well.

 

I do want to see more from Dice that isn't about the rules/forum etiquette, as last time you posted strongly in that way, you turned out to be scum :P

 

 

Tab I wanna look over all your posts thus far....but you feel more...whats the right word "timid" maybe this game...it's something I feel is worth looking into a bit more.

[Zander?]

@Tab - dice would make the some complaints as town too. That's just him as a person so I wouldn't really use that to pin him as either alignment

 

 

Vouch this!!

[Andrej]

Zander I'm gonna wait up a bit longer so that you can finish your read through and we can chat

 

You've got 15 minutes

[Zander?]

 

The back and forth you had consisted almost entirely of you arguing about what games he was referencing and which ones he should reference instead. So no, it didnt.

 

My motivation was to get him to lock down his case into something concrete we can reference later so if we lynch you and you flip town, he cant back pedal on his case. By getting him to lock down what it was we make it harder for him in the future to wiggle around.

 

Nolder I have posted my thoughts on the you/Pizza/NotBob situation.

Sniped!

 

Have you? Link or quote please because I don't remember you doing anything but asking others what they thought.

 

 

 

 

On the phone, so no.

You wanna give me a general idea of when/where?

 

 

 

Lenlo when do you get off phone and on a computer?

 

 

 

 

Lenlo when do you get off phone and on a computer?

Like an horu or so?

 

So in about an hour can you show me where you gave thoughts on me and/or Nomi's case?

 

 

Obv it's not your job to answer Lenlo's questions for him but....you make the "seeing a pattern comment", spend the majority of Pg 19. asking when he can be home and prove it.  But again if that's something you were building off of, imo I'd think you'd go back and ISO through him yourself to see, if it were actually bothering you and part of if not the main reason you're voting him.

 

I'm not liking what I'm seeing here Nol.

[Nolder]

 

BFG you out there? Haven't seen you in awhile.

 

I'm curious why you call her out specifically here when there had been a few others who had also been gone for a while.

 

Kind of a POE. 

Thane said he wouldn't be around until D2 basically.

Alanna I know is busy with work this time of year since she works for amazon so I cut he some slack (plus she'd made a list already so that's good).

Notbob is always kind of quiet and no amount of pushing is going to change that.

 

And next in line is BFG.

 

I would have called out Taborline as well but didn't realize she was in this game.

Got confused between the non playing people posting.

I do think she should comment more as well.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

I'm still confused...

 

Why do you think it's my job to address how someone else reacts to someone's case about me?

I mean I could, and I believe I did comment on it in fact, but I'm really confused that you think I have an obligation to.

 

Like that's leaving me really...bewildered is a good term to use here I think.

Because he is currently being heavily linked to you because of that by both AJ and Pizza in their cases of you. Because he is one of the front runners for today and I feel you should comment on what is going on in the game. Because I wanna know what you think of it. All of those things are why you should address it and help us figure out both you and this game.

 

That's still nothing to do with me. I'm not the one doing the linking.

 

Call me crazy but it feels like you're trying to make me overreact when there's no need.

I already commented that Nomi wasn't allowing for a third option with regards to Notbob, the option where he just didn't have a read on me, and it started a big argument.

 

To be honest if someone were to ask Notbob now he'd probably have more of an opinion since I finally got around to posting but ya'll are too busy arguing about a null read from like page 5 or something.

 

It has nothing to do with you, the one being linked and the one who will be heavily scrutinized should NotBob flip scum, because your not the one doing the linking? Whether you like it or not I think it does have something to do with you.

 

How am I trying to make you overreact? I am trying to get you to react at all. To post something other than self defense. To to look at some of the other cases going on.

 

First of all...

 

"To post something other than self defense."

 

I have posted more than self defense, especially in regards to our conversation today. This is a blatant misrep.

 

"To to look at some of the other cases going on."

 

I've seen them. Other than the Xander one I really have nothing to say and the only thing I'd have to say about Xander is in regards to meta which is pretty much irrelevant so I decided to hold my tongue there and see how it developed.

 

Ok now moving back to the Notbob thing.

 

"It has nothing to do with you, the one being linked and the one who will be heavily scrutinized should NotBob flip scum, because your not the one doing the linking? Whether you like it or not I think it does have something to do with you."

 

Yeah, pretty much. It's not my conversation nor do I feel the need to interject myself into it more than I already have.

If anyone would be so stupid as to draw connections to me based on a null comment on D1 by Notbob they deserve what they get.

 

 

 

Is the Bold what you feel is his trying to do to make you over react?  FWIW I do feel he misrepped me earlier as well and backed off.  If that is the correct part please pull some examples of it or if its not show me what it is that you are saying with examples please.

[Nolder]

 

 

I don't think the length of his posts would be really alignment indicative so I'm not sure what you're asking me

IMO he's still hedging and trying to find out what everyone else thinks before picking a side.

 

 

Are you referring to Pizza her Nolder cause unless memory is not serving me correctly I dont think hes hedging at all on hos thoughts of you and NotBob.  They seem pretty clear.  Can you please show some examples of this if that's who youre talking about? 

 

I was referring to Lenlo in this post.

[Nolder]

 

 

The back and forth you had consisted almost entirely of you arguing about what games he was referencing and which ones he should reference instead. So no, it didnt.

 

My motivation was to get him to lock down his case into something concrete we can reference later so if we lynch you and you flip town, he cant back pedal on his case. By getting him to lock down what it was we make it harder for him in the future to wiggle around.

 

Nolder I have posted my thoughts on the you/Pizza/NotBob situation.

Sniped!

 

Have you? Link or quote please because I don't remember you doing anything but asking others what they thought.

 

 

 

 

Im not misrepping you. Now please, go read through the thread and come back with some content. Gimme your thoughts on the Nolder/NotBob/Pizza situation for instance. Show me the towny in you, instead of whining at me every time I call you scum in a game.

Note this is still without giving his own.

Anyone else see the pattern?

 

 

 

I know this may be just something from my PoV that bothers me.  But why make the seeing a pattern comment without checking to see if its actually a patternt??  That's is pinging me some FWIW. 

 

Well I mean I kind of did. It was only a pattern of maybe 3 posts? 4? I called it out each time I saw it.

[Zander?]

 

 

Sorry bout the quote chains, I just quote things I am interested in or want to respond to as I catch up.

 

As for Nolder, thank you. I can see what you are saying but this game has only been up for 20 hours or so. Yeah he popped in and then dipped, but that was very early on before any real content started. He could have gone to sleep, or had something to do cause its the weekend. So while I dont disagree with your assessment of those two games/his scum game, I wanna give him abit of time to get involved now that we have gotten serious.

 

If upon his return he stays consistent with your case then I will feel good following you and voting him.

 

Oh hey Nomi. Haha, that game. Never hard bussing like that again.

I expressed my view on you here Nolder. I said that I was going to wait for you to come back and start posting before I did anything, because while I agree with Pizza I wanted more to go on. I have more to go on now, and I am not liking it.

 

From what I have seen, NotBob is pretty quiet and succinct just as a player. He explains what he wants, when he wants and if he doesnt want to, to bad. Do I think this is good? No. Do I think we shouldnt lynch him for acting this way? Also no. But I would like more to go on than just NotBob doesnt wanna talk to me.

 

I would like a translator then yeah. Ill pay 1 cent a word, so about 7 bucks a post at this rate.

Heres for NotBob. I dont think what NotBob did was all that bad with what we currently know. Was just him being him. If you end up flipping scum, then I will reevaluate him, but atm I am null on him.

 

For Pizza I have made my stance clear multiple times. I think he is town. I simply get paranoid about his posts.

 

[unvote][v]Nolder[/v]

 

Show me your town N-man. Cause atm your not.

 

 

 

Seems to be like you are just avoiding actually addressing the main topics ITT Nolder, instead opting to gun for me.

 

 

Look forward to reading Nol's response to this.

[Nolder]

 

 

The back and forth you had consisted almost entirely of you arguing about what games he was referencing and which ones he should reference instead. So no, it didnt.

 

My motivation was to get him to lock down his case into something concrete we can reference later so if we lynch you and you flip town, he cant back pedal on his case. By getting him to lock down what it was we make it harder for him in the future to wiggle around.

 

Nolder I have posted my thoughts on the you/Pizza/NotBob situation.

Sniped!

 

Have you? Link or quote please because I don't remember you doing anything but asking others what they thought.

 

 

 

 

On the phone, so no.

You wanna give me a general idea of when/where?

 

 

 

Lenlo when do you get off phone and on a computer?

 

 

 

 

Lenlo when do you get off phone and on a computer?

Like an horu or so?

 

So in about an hour can you show me where you gave thoughts on me and/or Nomi's case?

 

 

Obv it's not your job to answer Lenlo's questions for him but....you make the "seeing a pattern comment", spend the majority of Pg 19. asking when he can be home and prove it.  But again if that's something you were building off of, imo I'd think you'd go back and ISO through him yourself to see, if it were actually bothering you and part of if not the main reason you're voting him.

 

I'm not liking what I'm seeing here Nol.

 

One thing I know from experience is that mafia can be very lazy and lie about what they've said or done.

My style is to wait until I get an answer and then check if it's true.

I have caught Des (may he rip) that way many times because he likes to lie about things and hope no one will check.

It's not so much I wanted to know if he gave thoughts I wanted to see if he'd lie about it.

IMO he essentially did since I asked him his thoughts about my interaction with Nomi and he's over here pointing to thoughts prior to my even engaging with the game.