Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[alannalynn]

Also, the fact that laine is not Wtl calder after that eod sketches me out something awful

I need more time with that one; I don't even remember him being around EOD. But I remember Thane being around, not voting and way too hesitant to lynch anybody.

 

Nolder/Hally are there for roll-over scumminess,

[alannalynn]

atp willing to go with Shad or Hallia

 

gonna keep going with my gut

 

[v] Shad [/v]

Shad is town, Zander. Let's not go there today

[Shad_]

 

I kind of felt it was obvious that Clov would move back to me.  I mean, I suppose he might not have, but I would have been pretty surprised by it.  I don't know that I'd give Laine and AJ that much cred for the vote itself.  But AJ put a lot into the "if Crusher flips town we know Shad is scum" angle that had me really nervous by the end of the night.  I don't know that scum would go for the early cred that play earns them when they don't really need it and could mislynch me instead.  He also passed my stalker test.  I'm going to have a hard time fully trusting AJ after our D1 interactions but circumstantial things move him up a bit.

 

Hallia chucked a vote on Crusher and peaced out for the night instead of voting me.  Before that she went for Dice--if she wanted to pull votes off Crusher I think she'd have had a much better shot with Nolder, unless the team is Hallia/Nolder/Crusher.  I can't hate that.  Dice's flip pretty well clears Zander.  Crusher's flip looks good for Nolder and he passed my stalker test.  Laine and Thane don't have much going for them but I haven't been scum reading either.  Calder is scum.

 

That's where I'm at prior to digging too deep.

 

What are you saying about my alignment?  And by moving back to you, just so I know we're on the same page, you're talking about that late vote to tie the trains, right?

 

 

 

Yeah, I originally started this as a reply to your post and started going other places with it so I deleted the quote.  Also should read "Hallia chucked a vote on Crusher and peaced out for the night instead of voting me.  I can't hate that.  Before that she went for Dice--if she wanted to pull votes off Crusher I think she'd have had a much better shot with Nolder, unless the team is Hallia/Nolder/Crusher."

 

You Nyn and Kiv were my strongest town reads end of D1 and you caught scum.  I'm not going to humor a bus among you when none of your moves on Crusher felt at all slimey, I've liked your play all game, and there are better options on the table.

[Clovdyx]

Crusher ISO

 

 

 

- When Kiv asks for content from anyone, he comments about Calder and me arguing Shad into a corner. He's not sure what to think of it. Says Shad reminds him of Lizzie....which... I don't see personally lol  But yeah, this is the him planting the seeds about me ganging up on Shad. Could be soft defense.

 

- Comments later in response to me, saying that it looks like I ganged up on Shad. Says Calder was already riling him up and yet I came in too. Says typical town me would be more investigative rather than antagonistic.

 

- When Kiv votes me, Crusher follows up with a vote. Compliments Kiv for his find. Repeats again that me pressuring Shad didn't look like scumhunting. Less inquisitve, more antagonistic. 

 

- When Kiv flips on him and votes him... angry response. Tries to misrep what Kiv said about his meta. Votes him. Kiv demonstrates he's wrong and Crusher accuses him of hedging.

 

- Argues with AJ that there's nothing opportunistic about him placing a second vote on me for a reason.

 

- Claims his character. Says he's a good lynch. Raves about me giving  up after two votes and how that wouldn't fly in JN. Keeps talking about his angle on Kiv misrepping his meta. At this point both Crusher and Nol are voting Kiv.

 

- Says he hasn't quit. Reiterates that he's a good information lynch. Says that Kiv, me and people who ran in to defend me should get some attention.

 

- When Shad questions him about being burned out, he goes on about how he expected the game's setup to be standard. Bla bla bla. Says he almost subbed out. Yada yada yada.

 

- Upon more questioning from Shad, he says that after he flips town, he'd have town look at players that ran in my defense. Kept on about how weird it was that a player going emo and giving up is being defended.

 

- I ask him for reads, he said he doesn't do read lists. I ask him if he has town reads. He says yes. Later, he posts the following: Anyhow Doggin, NYN, Clov...aj..thane, hallia...lane,nolder, Dice. I think the Calder/Chad thing is likely town on town.  Guessing but that is the vibe. Not sure how it goes exactly. But if I had to guess?

 

dice

Nolder

Laine

(Calder)

(Shad)

 

Halli 

Thane

 

AJ

 

Clov

Nyn

Kiv

 

 

He also points out that he thinks Shad/Calder thing is v/v. He mentions them as an afterthought. Zander is the only one he doesn't name at all.

 

 

 

 

tldr, up until him pouncing on Kiv's push on me.... he was mostly trying to gradually misrep me while trying to characterize my interrogation on Shad as antagonistic. Could be him trying to push me as a lynch, could be him soft defending Shad and trying to get me to back off. Could be both. Beyond that he hasn't really mentioned anyone else or interacted much. I would have expected him to roll with a Shad lynch, considering how much negative attention he was getting early on. And yet he seemed to have been fixated on me the majority of the time..... and literally pounced at the first sign of a train on me forming. The urgency makes me lean more towards him trying to cover for Shad. 

 

Not much to say about the list he provided. Assuming I'm reading it right.... he failed to mention Zander in it at all. Has both Nolder and Shad as town reads but that doesn't tell me much. Especially considering my earlier comment to Nolder about the standard spread in scum read lists. I would expect Crusher to mix it up.... so I doubt I can make any conjunctures from it.

 

Thoughts on the bold - 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this is scummy, too.  I'm watching the Shad/Calder brouhaha and seeing mild inklings that could potentially support a case on Shad, but not enough to make me want to drive it forward at the moment.  That seems to be most of the game's read as well, given that you three have been the only ones discussing it.  Yet you saw enough to dive in face first, claws extended.  That reads - to me - as potentially opportunistic scum looking to exploit a townie mistake (a read contingent, obviously, on Shad being town, which we don't know yet). 

 

Fair enough to say that's a misread, but a misrep?  That's a highly defensive OMGUS for a single piece of suspicion thrown your way. 

 

It's a misrep in my eyes because it's visibly not true. I've pointed out several times what I did not like. I questioned him accordingly. I'm not taking advantage of anything. I'm sharing my concerns and digging deeper. It's what I do. Pointing it out as if it's irregular is bogus. 

 

To be fair it did look a little bit like you ganged up on him.  Calder was already working the kid into a frenzy.  Typical Nyn town is usually more investigative than antagonistic. Tough for me because don;t have meta on either Calder or Chad.  Might be what happens Chad. 

 

 

 

 

 

Red section here definitely looks more like he's defending Shad than trying to push you.  I noted earlier how he didn't really seem to have any aggression towards you, so I don't think this post was intended as a push.  He does take a shot at you for your meta in it, but it just reads like he's saying more about what happened to Shad than you (or anyone else).

 

Also I have no idea what that last sentence is supposed to mean.  

 

 

 

 

Chopped the nested, anybody that cares can go look for themselves.

 

You are so full of shit dude.  You tell people my scum meta is joking in the beginning of games?  Please show me a game Im scum or town I didn;t joke around in the beginning.   Just one.  Then you vote me because you are telling me my meta is wrong for Nyn? So Im scum for being wrong about Nyn's meta while you lied about mine?

 

Wow.  You would get slaughtered at JN for trying this crap.  But hey if these guys want to get duped by you, then fine.

 

unvote vote Doggin.

 

 

 

 

 

Here he knee-jerks to Kivam and challenges him to provide a game where he isn't jokey.  I don't know Crusher at all, so I have no idea if this kind of rage is something he'd fake, but it feels more like he's upset about being caught for something garbage, rather than just trying to distance himself from Kivam.  This makes me want to put Kivam closer to the top of my list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crusher, people have said you were really excited to play this game. Is that a misrep and if not why does it feel like you're burnt out already?

 

I did say on JN I would like to play a game. Yes.  But I read this game as being standard.  I thought standard meant the mafia we use to play all the time.  Cop, Doc, GF, townies and scum or a variation of that.  This set up with this seeker crap, set townies no role, set scum no role  blows and I never played it before,  Never will again. I actually asked to be replaced once I found out but the mod was very kind in trying to make me understand it.  I am terrible with new things I don;t know much about.  So yes I was excited to play mafia just not this one.    I actually still hold a grudge against Verbal for a basturd mod game he tricked me into playing.  LOL  It's all good though. 

 

 

 

Crush, who would you have us look at besides Kiv and Nyn if you flip town? Because I don't exactly feel like a town flip from you would look terrible for them under the circumstances.

I would look at the players that ran to NYN's defense when Kivam then I voted her.  Weird that people defend a player who go's full emo and threatens to give up with just a single vote.  she got mad at Kivams vote alone.  I could go get the names but if you look back was a couple that ran to her defense.  Just seems odd.  yet, I am guilty of forgetting she mentioned she was under some stress in the sign up thread.  Just a very strong response to a single vote. 

 

 

 

 

 

I really don't know what to do with either of the quotes from Shad that he's replying to.  The bold could be a teammate trying to figure out what approach Crusher wants him to take (mafia don't have day chat this game), but I'm not sure that Mafia!Shad proposes that question to somebody he knows has no chance of flipping town.  Tone-wise, it sounds kind of clumsy so instincts tell me it might be fake, but I don't know.  

 

Bolded part of Crusher's response gives me the thought he was trying to find a friend.  He's trying to make himself not look so bad.

[Clovdyx]

I hate not being able to give a more decisive answer, but I just don't know about Shad.  It seems like he's defending him for no real reason early on, and then it seems like he's trying to buddy up to him at the end.  I guess the defending could be a TMI thing for credit if Shad flipped....I don't think there was a legitimate counter wagon when he made that first post I quoted?

[Kivam]

Laine, go look at calders reactions as crush started pulling close to then past shad. Also, look at the timing of where calder flipped from voting shad to pounding the drum for his lynch. On mobile so not going back, but i noted the shift while it happened and townread the hell out of him to improve my chances of surviving the night. With shad confirmed town by my peek, the conclusion is even stronger

[Nynaeve]

 

I hate not being able to give a more decisive answer, but I just don't know about Shad.  It seems like he's defending him for no real reason early on, and then it seems like he's trying to buddy up to him at the end.  I guess the defending could be a TMI thing for credit if Shad flipped....I don't think there was a legitimate counter wagon when he made that first post I quoted?

 

 

Not really, no. I think that that that point it was all about the Calder/Shad thing. And between their exchange, I think Shad was the one coming out of it looking bad. I'm just trying to think....... I'm Crusher and I'm scum. The biggest thing going right now is a Calder/Shad dispute. If they're both town.... I'd pick a side. and promote a mislynch in that direction. Instead, he defends Shad... but he doesn't go for Calder either. Mostly seems to suggest it's V/V,  while poking at my meta being off. You're right that he only really does push me once Kiv lays down his vote on me. And eagerly so.  But I dunno...... I just feel like he was floating about through the whole Shad/Calder thing and only jumped in the pool when I was on the table. 

[Nynaeve]

I guess what I'm trying to say is... that I think there's scum in one of Shad/Calder. Crusher sort of avoided it, in a fashion, by labeling it as v/v... and did not seize the opportunity to push either. Which is odd cause considering how prominent the argument between them was.... there was plenty to latch onto for a mislynch, assuming they are both town. Crusher, on the other hand, seemed more interested in feeling me out to see if he could push me. And Kiv gave him the opening to do just that.

 

That's my take on it.

[Clovdyx]

I guess what I'm trying to say is... that I think there's scum in one of Shad/Calder. Crusher sort of avoided it, in a fashion, by labeling it as v/v... and did not seize the opportunity to push either. Which is odd cause considering how prominent the argument between them was.... there was plenty to latch onto for a mislynch, assuming they are both town. Crusher, on the other hand, seemed more interested in feeling me out to see if he could push me. And Kiv gave him the opening to do just that.

 

That's my take on it.

 

I think Crusher-Kivam would be an unlikely, but not impossible, team.  That means POE is down to Hallia/Calder/Shad......../Kiv......../ZanderFPS.  Calder-Shad should never be teammates, so Hallia is pretty much guaranteed mafia at this point?

 

 

If this was skype, I'd high five you.

[Nynaeve]

Heh

[Nynaeve]

Honestly? At this point a flip on Shad looks most appealing to me. Mostly cause I do feel he's scum, but even if he isn't, It will help with my read on Calder, as well as Nolder's.

 

Halli is definitely in the POE. I did give her a townie lean due to gut read... but that's not gonna save her from the noose if push comes to shove, because I'm not right about her 100% of the times. She's just a really tough read content wise, so it's complicated to venture there. Not sure if I'm feeling inclined to vote her today, though. We'll see.

[Nynaeve]

Laine, go look at calders reactions as crush started pulling close to then past shad. Also, look at the timing of where calder flipped from voting shad to pounding the drum for his lynch. On mobile so not going back, but i noted the shift while it happened and townread the hell out of him to improve my chances of surviving the night. With shad confirmed town by my peek, the conclusion is even stronger

 

FTR, I need to go back to read it too. Was heavily distracted around EoD so I should look into it with more detail. Prolly tomorrow, though, cause it's getting late. 

[Andrej]

Home for the weekend and it's a long one, I'm excited.

 

Catching up

[Clovdyx]

I see you AJ.

[Zander?]

I see you Clov.

 

 

I see you AJ.

 

I see the both of you...

[Clovdyx]

I didn't see that coming.

[Andrej]

Blinded by the light.

[Andrej]

I guess considering the theme, I should've capitalized that.

 

"Blinded by the Light" *

[Clovdyx]

What is the theme?  

 

 

 

Besides wrecking mafia.

 

 

[BFG]

Official VC 2.5

 

Hallia (1): AJ

 

Shad (1): Zander

 

Calder (2): Shad, Kivam

 

Thane (1): Laine

 

Not voting (6): Hallia, Thane, Clov, Calder, Nolder, Nyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WTL Thane/Nolder/Hally

 

[v]Thane[/v]

 

 

On wifi for five minutes at my cousin's. [v]calder[/v]

. Squarely within the PoE and his defense of crusher at EoD warrants serious pressure.

 

[Clovdyx]

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

Evening wagons

[BFG]

Official VC 2.6

 

Hallia (2): AJ, Clov

 

Shad (1): Zander

 

Calder (2): Shad, Kivam

 

Thane (1): Laine

 

Not voting (5): Hallia, Thane, Calder, Nolder, Nyn

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

Evening wagons

 

[BFG]

Night all :)

[Andrej]

 

Maybe it was easy and not a lot of movement because both trains were on scum??

 

It's a possibility. Generally, though, I would say the counter wagon to lynched scum on D1 is a townie. The stagnant nature of the wagons could just be an affect of this being a DL game versus your typical hammer - and seeing Crusher's low amount of participation I wouldn't all be surprised if scum were sitting back for the majority of D1.

 

As far as I can tell, the game is pretty much locked at this point.  I would apologize for the EoD shenanigans, but Crusher was never not getting lynched - I was going to move back to him with a minute left if Laine rolled on Shad (or refused to take a stand between the two of them).  But it's hard for me to imagine that Mafia!Laine rolls on crusher like that.  She certainly wouldn't have known that AJ was going to switch at that exact moment.

 

AJ's vote looks pretty good.  Like Laine with this vote, timing pretty much makes it impossible for him to have seen her vote and moved in.  That means his vote was the tipping point for Crusher and saved Shad.  I'm not completely ignoring the possibility AJ could be deepwolfing me, but he was already looking very good to me yesterday before that.  Crusher's flip gets him about as close to locked as possible.

 

Crusher's red flip should put Nolder clear, per my reasoning yesterday.

 

Nyn is all but guaranteed town. 

 

With Zander being SHC via Dice, we are in incredibly good shape.

 

I'm pretty confident both you and Nyn are townies. Kivam is pretty high up there too. I'm a bit surprised Dice was the NK, but if I'm being egotistical I think I may have played a part in that - at least I hope I did. Last night I had been contemplating moving to Crusher before DL, and had been entertaining a vote on him prior to Shad pinging me. The last second switch was mostly because I wanted to get a better read on Shad but also because I felt there was a reasonable chance that Crusher was scum based on his play that had been pointed out by Kiv/Nyn.

 

I think Crusher-Kivam would be an unlikely, but not impossible, team.  That means POE is down to Hallia/Calder/Shad......../Kiv......../ZanderFPS.  Calder-Shad should never be teammates, so Hallia is pretty much guaranteed mafia at this point?

 

I know that Kivam is sort of known for his bus heavy mentality as scum, but I don't get that impression this game - so I agree that although it's still possible I don't find it likely that he is one of Crusher's partners. Shad/Calder info sort of opens this game up, and considering Shad was the CW I would probably go Calder first. I need to do more personal research on Hallia, admittedly, but I think she's deserving of some pressure at this point.

 

I'm inclined to believe it, but it doesn't mean your hypothetical teammate wouldn't.  In any case, I have no intention of lynching you any time soon.

 

Agreed. Even if I hadn't peeked Zander last night, I would say that he should be treated as reasonably confirmed town based on Dice getting murdered.

 

Well i think the last 2 scum are in this group - Hallia/Calder/Shad (big gap).....Zander

 

Since i am Calder, i would prefer one of the other two in the main clump.

 

I would be interested to know which of the two you think is more likely and why considering the new info we have.

 

Doesn't it bug you that Nolder was calling Kivam's trap dumb... defending Crusher and going after Kiv? He had Crusher squarely as null, but kept over defending him, going on about how he's hard to lynch and all that crap.  I mean it's great that he broke the tie.... but really?  I still don't trust him at all.

 

I think the bold is the largest and most sketchy point you have on Nolder. That was a good observation on your part and I dislike how he was trying to stay neutral on Crusher while trying to call Kiv scummy over the whole ordeal.

 

atp willing to go with Shad or Hallia

 

gonna keep going with my gut

 

[v] Shad [/v]

 

Not terrible but I think Shad may have earned himself more time seeing Crusher's flip.

 

It's not full-proof, but I'm pretty sure Clov, Dice, AJ, and Nolder were all F5 spamming the entire time.

 

 

lol - I definitely was. Crusher's flip does look remarkably better for you regardless of our disagreements from D1.

 

I kind of felt it was obvious that Clov would move back to me.  I mean, I suppose he might not have, but I would have been pretty surprised by it.  I don't know that I'd give Laine and AJ that much cred for the vote itself.  But AJ put a lot into the "if Crusher flips town we know Shad is scum" angle that had me really nervous by the end of the night.  I don't know that scum would go for the early cred that play earns them when they don't really need it and could mislynch me instead.  He also passed my stalker test.  I'm going to have a hard time fully trusting AJ after our D1 interactions but circumstantial things move him up a bit.

 

Hallia chucked a vote on Crusher and peaced out for the night instead of voting me.  Before that she went for Dice--if she wanted to pull votes off Crusher I think she'd have had a much better shot with Nolder, unless the team is Hallia/Nolder/Crusher.  I can't hate that.  Dice's flip pretty well clears Zander.  Crusher's flip looks good for Nolder and he passed my stalker test.  Laine and Thane don't have much going for them but I haven't been scum reading either.  Calder is scum.

 

That's where I'm at prior to digging too deep.

 

I thought it was a decent point at the time pending Crusher's flip. Regardless of your statement and prior game proof of doing it as town, I don't think it's something you couldn't fake as a wolf. High level players are pretty consistent across the spectrum, and I would say that you're reaching that sort of higher echelon of capability where I don't think any action can be interpreted as purely alignment indicative on either side.  Tbh, I don't really claim credit for the Crusher lynch. I mean, I'm glad that we lynched scum, but his case was mostly made by Nyn/Kiv. My motive in voting him was a bit more selfish, and perhaps reckless, in that I was willing to let a villager potentially swing so that I could have more concrete evidence against you. That said - Crusher flipping scum basically nullifies my point.

 

Your point on Hallia is decent, I personally need to take a better look at her but I think she's definitely on the table for discussion at this point.

 

WTL Thane/Nolder/Hally

 

[v]Thane[/v]

 

Thane is town.

 

On wifi for five minutes at my cousin's. [V]calder [/v]. Squarely within the PoE and his defense of crusher at EoD warrants serious pressure.

 

I could get behind this.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is... that I think there's scum in one of Shad/Calder. Crusher sort of avoided it, in a fashion, by labeling it as v/v... and did not seize the opportunity to push either. Which is odd cause considering how prominent the argument between them was.... there was plenty to latch onto for a mislynch, assuming they are both town. Crusher, on the other hand, seemed more interested in feeling me out to see if he could push me. And Kiv gave him the opening to do just that.

 

That's my take on it.

 

I don't think this is a bad conclusion, but at the same time I think it could be a matter of Crusher wanting to not get involved. Or at the very least, the soft defense of Shad could've been a WKing attempt which was why he was characterizing it as v/v. Still think info on Calder/Shad will clear up a lot of things though.

[Andrej]

What is the theme?  

 

 

 

Besides wrecking mafia.

 

 

 

That's basically it.

 

Rekt