[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[alannalynn]

Aww Thanks <3

[Andrej]

Hunt you down with mercy.

 

Hunt you down all nightmare long.

 

LUCK.

 

RUNS.

 

OUT.

[Andrej]

Hunt you down without mercy.

 

Hunt you down all nightmare long.

 

LUCK.

 

RUNS.

 

OUT.

[alannalynn]

About to do my last catch up post anyways I think I just about have a reads list down too so that's awesome; I only spent all weekend of my LAST weekend playing this game <_< LOL

[Andrej]

Hunt you down without mercy.

 

Hunt you down all nightmare long.

 

LUCK.

 

RUNS.

 

OUT.

[Andrej]

Stupid DM ruining my awesome Metallica quotes.

[alannalynn]

Okay this is my last catch up WoT and then I should be able to start digging in to the thread and players a bit more. This should be from page 60-77 or something like that because it overlapped to where I was able to respond in RT

 

In case you're skimming, some points made toward/about Kiv, Key, Wish, Zander, Cory, Noldy, Lenny, Womby

 

 

 

 

 

Wish - a. may return as true, but if so, I don't know about it.  The only other truly dedicated lurker in this game (based on my experience) is Hallia, and she was already actively posting (and had recently said she was making an effort to be more active).  Keep in mind what I said earlier - I have a lot of mafia experience, but not with most of these players (there's a reason Wombat said he didn't buy my emo headfake, but pretty much everyone else did ... he's played with me for years).  So wrt most of this game's players, asking me if they usually lurk as scum makes as much sense as asking you if they do.  I just don't know the answer.

Got it. *nod nod*
What you say here seems genuine. Why did you emo headfake? I don't understand that.

 Because in my last game (the one I just accidentally self-lynched in), Shad and I got into an argument about the utility of using emo as a towntell.  I said it could be faked, started to fake it but didn't carry it through, and he said "well, I didn't believe it anyway".
 
And since I'm an INTP, I took that as a challenge
 
Pretty sure I won the argument; so if it gets me lynched in this game, it was still worth it

This really annoys me.

Okay, so up until what point were you faking it? I really don't see the point in doing this at all in the game and it's not a very pro-town thing to do if you are town. And being that you have a policy lynch stance for emo (fake or not) why do it in the first place other than to prove a point?

 

#1198 you're mentioning a reveal... where, can you link it? I'll try to go into your ISO and look for what you're talking about but I'm not immediately recalling a shift from you doing fake emo for Shad's sake to real emo..
 

 JFC are you kidding me man???!!! 

 
This is about as far from a Pro-Town play as I think I've seen since Heart was mislynced as an Un CC'd Doc in SW.
 
 So your ego is more important then game solving??!!! 

 At the start of D1 ? Sure. Sent from my SM-G 900P using Tapatalk

 Yeah... nope. Wtf

 

#1220 Nyn is my favorite person and probably my strongest town read at the moment. We wont be lynching this hydra. I'll also stand by my habit of defending Dice if necessary, since apparently that's all I know how to do, no matter his alignment. w/e

 

#1242 @CORY I guess this kind of answers my Cory question from earlier. Am I correct to assume you're not town reading the ClovFG slot based on BFG's aversion to RT interaction and Clov's town reading AJ?

 

#1282 This is the second time I feel like Lenlo is explaining himself with gut feelings that he's not showing his thought process for and pulling two names out of a hat (ie Zander/AJ) because they would "provide the most info". I really hate this stance and would like to hear more substantial reasoning from Lenlo besides that. FoS Lenlo

 

1. Razen - seen a couple posts by him looks good so far
2. Wombicat (Wombat/Ocicat) - wombat is talkative but haven't seen him do any real scumhunting, I'm guilty of this myself so w/e. no idea who OC Cat is.
3. Seph/Zander hydra - No opinon
4. Hallia - Good so far
5. Sili - Dirty filthy spammer that needs to be eradicated for everyone's sanity
6. Kivish (Kivam/Mish) - Like Mish's posts and don't dislike Kivs posts. Think there is probably already at least 1 scum on their train hoping it will build
7. Laine -  no opinion
8. Shad - no opinion
9. Talya - seen a couple posts but didn't read'em. Seems to be keeping up so good chance of being town
10. Pralaya - no opinion. Has he checked in yet?
11. Lenlo - no opinion
12. Yates - Seems invested in some conversation or another. Yates is a tryhard though so that's pretty null imo
13. Nyce (Nyn/Dice) - haven't really read their posts but I hope they are town because that's a scary combo
14. John Snow - no opinion
15. ClovFG (Clov/BFG) - BFG is nice. Clov I don't know very well. no real opinion
16. BeckCsarmi - I guess he posted but I didn't see it
17. CorKey (Cory/Keyholder) - Haven't noticed key posting but Cory seems to have good thread presence. don't think he has a problem with that as scum though. I'd guess if he's really keeping notes ask to see some of them eventually and if true he's town. I've never known scum to keep notes myself
18. wish-tree/Celeste hydra - they seem talkative no real opinion on them though
19. Nolderf (Nolder/Darthe) - please kills us. this is an abomination
20. AJ - no opinion

 Nolder what's with all the nulls?? I think Clov, Zander, Wish had me covered here though

 

Actually I don't even think that it's the nulls that bother me so much. Wombat doesn't even have a read, he's just "not scumhunting", Sili is a dirty filthy spammer, you're not dropping a read either way on Kivish, not reading Talya's post to even achieve a read, Yates trying is null apparently, Nyce not attempting to read because again you're not reading their posts, BFG nice and other no opinion, town reading Cory/Key for NOTES, and you want to die.

 

You literally have like 2 reads here:

Hally good

Corkey good for notes b/c scum don't do that.

Seriously dude?
 

 

I also dont understand why Im getting flack for my read of Kiv's emo stuff when IM NOT the only one doing so??  if its something else please let me know.  ive also listed other reasons for my vote so im not getting it,
 
Also if I missed anything directed at me please let me know.

 You called a post AtE when it clearly wasn't.  When pressed on it, you gave some lame excuse about meaning to quote his previous posts.  An excuse I don't buy.  Furthermore, adding in Kiv's statement that his emo-fest was a gambit and that you still haven't let up on him for it as far as I can tell, this looks even more like you are ignoring some very pertinent details.  It's like you found an easy narrative for Kiv (that he's emo and therefore scum) and locked it in.  That doesn't look to me like the behavior of a townie trying to find scum.  That looks to me like the behavior of mafia trying to find a townie who is playing poorly and is therefore a lynch target.

I don't really buy this Womby. Zander is often known for his tunnelly vision and will push even if he's not using the right reasons or wording for it. I also don't think Zander has the experience as mafia to convincingly push a mislynch. He covered up his pushes in Belichick by tunneling one of our teammates the entire game, but I would reason to guess that outside of that he may have trouble pushing mislynches.

 

#1371 Zander, <3
#1386 reminder to go back to the Wish/Celeste reads list yo
 

Also, is it me or does everyone spell lynch wrong...?
 
lynch = lunch?
lol?

 Auto-correct...

 

#1420 #1440 current meta on DM is pretty active scum lol
 

A few questions about the stuff I have in bold:

1. If Zander's poor at defending himself, and his meta as town and scum are pretty much the same, how do you even read him?
2. @Cory: How can you tell the difference between AJ doing work and showing work?
3. I don't understand this Hally bit. So Cory never lies about Hally, regardless of his alignment?

Answering because I can, and I don't think Zander is a good lynch, I just think he needs to be more CLEAR so that people can understand him

1. He tends to town tell really well and make good reads, albeit rather clunky sometimes. He really needs to articulate himself in a way that makes people follow better. As long as he keeps up posting like he is and downing scum, I'm happy calling him town for it.

 

At the same time, he's only been mafia one time, and it was in the Belichick game with me and Talya. Zander and I 100% town read each other while Zander was tunneling in on Talya the entire game. I got lynched D2 and town had a difficult time sorting out those remaining two. So, the point I'm trying to make is that he literally had a fail-proof and ideal set up: town read one teammate who he always treats the same, scum read the other and tunnel in (Talya played a VERY clean game). I don't see him being able to pull that again and so I can see his playstyle being very un-Zander-like outside of that scenario. Now, I may be underestimating Zander and if he flips scum at any point in this game, I'll be very surprised, but I really don't think that I am wrong here.

 

In my snipped, these got deleted earlier.

Where's my summary of current events or should I just go to bed?

-.- From the games I have observed lately, I expect more from you Laine. Boo.
 

@ Mish, I did mention you and Kiv.
Thought too much was being made on Kivs vote stuff, thought your posts honest, but didn't like your vote on Shad.
Zander...you missed the Qs over his emo stuff, didn't like it
not ready to give a reads list yet :p

How about any kind of statement on who you think is townie/scummy? I don’t like this “not ready”.
(Anyone who has played with Talya – is this normal behavior?)
 

*snipped*
Because I really can't see any of the actives as very scummy. I actually can't see anyone who makes sense and isn't afraid of speaking their mind as scummy.
I also notice that scum tend to lurk a lot...so? This is a pretty weak reads list as I've already mentioned. I think that atm the conflicts among the active players are silly imo and that the real scum are taking advantage of the confusion. We have 20 players and a lot of those are fairly lurky.

That used(?) to be a problem with DM scum. I think it’s changed though. The newer players generally seem to post a lot regardless of alignment…which then makes the older players have to step up their post counts so as not to be too obvious.
 

Blue: I'm sorry!! I was getting really frustrated. But I'm here now for you <3

Red: I think this is pretty null for Talya, she likes to be more sure of reads before posting them? So I wouldn't consider it to be withholding reads, honestly

Green: truth! I think activity levels overall have increased on DM, which is kinda fantastic *warily eyes page count* I think we're gonna definitely beat Star Wars as the longest game on DM, fwiw
 

No I'm not town reading him. I would hardly call one game meta though, it's something I want to keep an eye on as the game progresses. Meta does help, but it shouldn't be solely used for a push. Right alanna :)

Shhhh don't judge. I did what I could, man.

 

Not feeling the love page 76 #womby #sili

 

 

[alannalynn]

Now that I'm caught up fully, I'll officially [v]Kivish[/v]

 

Strongest town reads are Nyce, Zander

Also feel pretty good about ClovFG, Razen.

I like Wish > Celeste, Shad up there too

 

Slots I want to look at more: Andrej, Len, Wombicat

Scum: Kivish, Nolderp

[alannalynn]

Going to bed now since nobody's around. Will be up in the afternoon before work to interact a bit and get those ISOs

[Talya]

I'm here, doing my reread.

 

@ Alanna, you don't like Kiv doing what he did for his own agenda, why does this make you think scum rather than null?

 

about Zander - Every game I'm in I try to improve and take note of what people say, my game is evolving all the time, and try different things. However you and others have told Zander over and over about his game and he never evolves it. after our last game I feel like he won't change it because when he is scum he will use it to cover himself. If he was town, wouldn't you think he would want to show it more, instead of relying on old SW Zander that everyone loved. It's a cliche and how do you justify calling him town because of it?

[Andrej]

pg 61-70 p1

 

 

 

 

cause i thought i did answer your question....numerous times as i mentioned.  dude just stop.  you know if you had i dont know....tried to game solve, build cases and give reads instead of creating this plague of stupidity with your "fake emo reveal test bs" and trying to stroke your ego  this Thread would be in a much better state.

 

This sort of looks like backtracking which I have seen scum do on my home site but it could also be a null tell. What do you think of your accusers?

 

What makes it look like backtracking?

 

I really like Wish's posting style!  I feel a kindred spirit there

 

Told you she was like a Halla.2

 

Lenlo's long period of absence and low content posts kind of seems scum like to me. I'm not sure if this is a null tell for her though.

 

More null than anything regarding the thread presence. The biggest issue I have currently is him suddenly having me as a scum read without any previous evidence to show for it. Sort of coincidental considering all the discussion about me up to that point. (Coincidence being sarcastic)

 

 

Aj- you said nyn was picking up on details, you thought she would as town, regarding kivs Pral vote. What details exactly?

 

The way she interpreted Kiv's vote for saying "Pral lurks as scum" when he is generally a quiet player regardless of his alignment. Those sort of "truths" so to speak are the details I'm referring to. Her noticing it and calling it out is a good thing imo.

 

I haven't been tunneling Mish. I've been asking her questions, that by the by, she's yet to answer. Mish's overreaction in itself is irrelevant to me. She gets dramatic all the time, so it's not some kind of tell with her (which I've pointed out already). People who don't know her, though, would normally see it that way. As for me? I need to lean on her to get a good feel. I don't really care how it makes me look. That's how I roll and it's not about to change.

 

The issues I have with Kivam I've already covered. Nothing he said made me feel better about that slot. My issue with her I can expand on, in case it wasn't clear. She expressed her opinion on the hydra matter and placed a vote on Alanna. I actually liked the way she explained herself and said as much at the time. Then Kiv stepped in, gave her the mathematical explanation and she folded. But then later when questioned again about it (by Cory, I think), she went back to saying it's BS. I know that she said Kivam is like half mentoring her or whatever. But I don't care about Kivam's clout. And if she ended up agreeing with him, then why did she revert back to her original stance? I know Mish and I think that her getting momentarily complacent with a fap explanation from the oh so great Kiv is uncharacteristic of her. In some ways she's as stubborn as me and so it sticks out to me that she would do that when she sounded so determined . It's fine if you don't agree, but that's the impression I'm getting from it.

 

This slot seems to be big on excuses. Oh Kiv is mentoring me, so that's why I did that. Oh I wasn't really referring to meta, cause I don't believe in meta ldo, I just said that to lure Pral to post, oh I only did a shout out to pral and not other people who didn't check in, cause he's the only one of them I know. Oh I wasn't really being emo, I was just faking it cause bla bla bla bliddy bla. My god, I'm just so misunderstood.     This slot is dirty. Kill it with fire.

 

Nyn still on fire.

 

Like, literally burning.

 

Someone help her.

 

Town
Nyn
Cory

Light town
Pral
Aj
Yates

 

I can see the Nyn/Cory reads, and Yates as well for the most part. Not sure how you're town reading me and Pral though?

 

3 of the top 4 posters are in a hydra...thought you couldn't post much, which is why you are in a hydra. H8u all :p

 

Weird how that works out - right? Didn't wanna complain too much about it, but I didn't think stuffing two players into one slot would help with the "lack of time to play" thing.

 

1) Bolded: What are thoughts now on Zander?

 

2) Is your view on Kivam tinted by the other game?

 

3) You really like Nyn, what do you think of her opinion on Mish?

 

This post is two days old, but I'll answer it anyway.

 

1) I don't think that Zander looks very scummy at all. His lockjaw approach to Kiv doesn't feel faked, and I think he's tried expressing himself but to no avail. The stuff he's harping on regarding Kivam I can see him doing as town - the vendetta vote, the lack of scum hunting, etc. I think his read would've probably changed if Kivam had simply disengaged from the argument and started talking about other stuff.

 

2) No. It has zero relevance here, as I've stated before. I don't like, however, the way that Kiv is insisting it doesn't mean anything because he posted it in signups. Feels more like a cheap defense for the action when it shouldn't have been made in the first place, but whatever. I'm having an easier time reading Mish than him currently.

 

3) Nyn very much looks like her town self imo. I don't agree with all of her posts on Mish (namely the way Mish deferred to Kim earlier) but the way she went about attacking them feels genuine to me.

 

At this point I can see no thoughts on Wombat - what are they? Which people?

 

At the time, Key and Razen had commented on him iirc.

 

I'm actually feeling better about Wombat now that I'm more current and have seen some of his later stuff. The fluffy catch up WOTs have ended and he's starting to dig into the game. I'm a little curious of his defense of Kiv, or at least backing of him, but generally I like that he's more involved.

 

But when Clov asked you about why you had AJ on your want to lynch list, you shot him down and denied mentioning him before when you posted twice in your catch-up that you wouldn't mind an AJ lynch.  You're deliberately dodging the question.  Not a good move, imo.  I have the same question, and I want to see it answered.  Because it looks like Lenlo is just name-spewing without anything to actually back himself up.  Making a very easy vote at this point, because lots of other people have voted for Zander/Seph.  Vote: Lenlo.

 

I had more here, but apparently it won't let me post because there's too many quotes.

 

I'm continuing to like Razen's posts. I agree with the stuff he says about Lenlo here and how it seems he's bandwagoning onto one of the big trains. I'm also bothered that Lenlo has stated he'd be WTL me but has yet to back up his stance with any sort of proof. The question Razen asks about how my interactions making me a good candidate to lynch versus Kivam is a good one and a possible disconnect that should be investigated in the future if one of them flips scum.

 

I'm not saying "AJ is a wolf", I am saying "I don't have enough from AJ to figure out his alignment yet and I usually can when he's a villager"

I recognize that it is early in the game and he might be busy and this is all subject to change

 

The bigger issue in that conversation is that Clov seems to be very comfortable with AJ and I don't understand why he is

 

Clov bashed me recently for "giving out townreads based on nothing" so consider me unsettled that he believes AJ requires his defense

 

You're right - it is early.

 

I think the biggest difference between your POV and Clov's is that he's actually willing to look at the stuff I posted and think on it, where as I think you're disregarding it because I lack the volume that you're used to.

 

I have to agree with Cory over the AJ, he hasn't done much. @Clov, please show where he's done some really good explaining?

 

Not a big fan of how Talya is picking up Cory's argument here.

 

Yates hella green villager.

 

I know you posted this before I did, but - GET OUT OF MY HEAD.

 

Liking the fact that I'm seeing the same stuff as Key as I read through. Felt good about their slot beforehand but this sort of stuff reinforces my read.

 

At least he's sticking to his guns on that point. I think it's poor gameplay to not consider the other hydra head, but now that I see this, I don't think that looks bad in terms of Shad's alignment. Just a different style.

 

I like how Key is being objective in this sense. Instead of looking at Shad negatively, she recognizes the difference in mentality from a possible townie (I'm assuming that's her read) and just rolls with it versus trying to spin it in a bad way.

 

Are you sure....>.>

 

Implying something here?

 

And the whole big question is; why is it AJ that is in the middle of this kerfuffle? Was it timing - Clov having just weighed in on a Key post wrt AJ during catch up? Was Clov hard defending a scum buddy? Was Clov trying to pocket AJ? Is Cory trying to keep a mislynch option open? It's just a lot to piece together.

 

Probably because I'm a big ******* deal imo.

 

Fwiw, I don't mind Clov's stance - or Cory's necessarily, although it's wrong. Clov is at least showing the effort to try and read me and I can see Cory's POV for why he's concerned. This isn't the first game that this topic has come about.

 

Also ENFP in the house.

 

We are literally the exactly opposites.

 

@Clov - can you better flesh out your AJ read, please? I was pretty surprised to see he had 23 posts in ISO because I barely remember anything outside of the other game stuff [i haven't even gottent o do any Three Amigos stuff :(]. The only real substantive content post was this one.

 

Saddle up, Dusty.

 

We ride!

 

I'm going to address this one more time, and then I'm done with the Kivam/Pral thing. 

 

Kivam is considered an exceptionally bus heavy Mafia.  The conversation Cory and I had basically boiled down to whether he's even comfortable pushing townies and whether he can clear himself through his arguments (instead of just because he completely wrecked somebody who flipped mafia on D1).  For those new to the site/that don't play much, when I first started here, I heard multiple times about how great of a player he is and how outstanding of a mafiaoso he can be - he'll bus a teammate for no reason and then just ride town credit to endgame.  They even had a name for it - "Kivam's Gambit". 

 

So Razen makes a point that Kivam randomly throws a vote out there on a player who has not posted and makes a comment about how this player sometimes lurks as mafia, even though there were other inactives as well.  This made me consider what motivation he could have had for choosing Pralaya, specifically.  He didn't just say "let's vote the inactives and see what happens" - he named one.  Could have been RNG.  Could have had some deeper reasoning.  I don't know.  Like I said - it's something to keep in mind.

 

I knew this was the point you were making, ftr.

 

 

[Andrej]

pg 61-70 p2

 

 

-snip-

 

Quickly before I arrive at Sea World for the day:

@Mish - Call it more a better fundamental understanding of how he operates. I'm not looking to give him an out and he can explain for himself, which he may have already and I missed it. It's just something I could see him doing and added it to give you some insight. Seph should probably already know that, ftr.

@Clov/Zander - more of hunch/gut read atm. His OP and posts thus far just read to me like scumBat does. You could say it's a prod, sure, but I am mildly suspicious until he picks it up.

 
I don't care what you call it, to me it's answering before he did himself and giving him an out. Are you worried your teammate couldn't defend themselves? 
 
Also your pushing on Wombat seems weak to me...
 
You gain a FoS, lucky you.
 

I need to go to sleep.
Goodnight thread.
 
I don't want to place a vote, because I don't think I have enough information to want to lynch anyone.
 
Celeste, if you catch up, please make a decision for me.

 
I'm unsure how I feel about Wish. She's active and prodding, but I wish I could see some more stances on her; I'm uncomfortable with her asking all these questions and seemingly being invovled without really involving herself. I do get it's confusing to come to a new forum though, especially in a game this big. She get's a null minus so far, but from D2 forward I'm hoping to see more from her (and Cel, who's a pretty solid null).
 

-snip-

 

Regarding Shad - I think you're neglecting a lot of other possibilities here. Sure - we could be teammates from your POV. But that's not the only outcome. Shad and I could be town/town and I am recognizing what I thought was potential ploy on his part, which I associate with his town game. We could be scum/town and the same thing applies, except in this instance Shad would be intentionally faking this sort of act. It could be town/scum and I am just noting something about Shad that I think he'll town read me for. Point being - scum/scum isn't the only conclusion and I think you should make deeper thought into things before you throw out blind FOSs. The point that Seph raised really wasn't a good one imo when you take in what I thought could have been Shad's motive.

 

What about my push on Wombat was weak? There isn't much more that I can say outside of it being gut/meta at the time.

 

That said I can sort of agree with what you say about Wish here. Reading through these pages I saw that she's asking a lot of questions, which lead to more questions, but not much of conclusions on her part based on the answers she receives.

 

Fair enough but sorry if i dont take you completely at your word.  I am gonna obv look over everything from everyone but IM NOT THE ONLY ONE who is suss of you so go figure...

 

FUN fact about me,  Im a gut read player.  I see stuff that pings me and I go after it.  I dont back down and i dont care how that makes me look. 

 

Townie Zander post imo.

 

@everyone unhappy with my lack of proof in my reads list:

It was more of a PSA, I'm not trying to convince anyone they're town. I'm more interested in trying to find mafia, then convincing you that said person is mafia. 

If a train starts up on one of my town reads without a good reason, I'll be backing them up. 

 

@my vote on Zephyr:

I'm pretty sure they've been in every game I've played since I've returned to playing mafia. I'm not townreading them, and I should be if they're town. Therefore, I'm applying pressure to see how they react so as to aid my read on them. 

 

I kind of want to think your 'take it or leave it' tone is villagery, but I also don't think other players asking you for explanation is unreasonable either. You can't just make blind statements like that and NOT expect to get questioned over it. We want to see proof of your reads, how you got there, how they progress, etc.

 

He's saying it could be helpful if and only if Kiv flips mafia. It's completely useless until we see Kiv's flip though. 

 

This.

 

EBWOP. I stared at the list so many times and felt like I missed someone. D'OH. Added in Zander now... 

 

I need more caffeine, seriously.

 

Also I'm gonna

[unvote]

for now, as I want to see reactions from my bottom list and talk to Kiv.

 

Mentioned this early regarding Kiv. May have been by mistake, but if Mish realizes that her unvote puts her into the lead for lynch I don't think scum would do this naturally. Despite the trouble I'm having with your slot, stuff like this makes me want to think you guys are villagers and just got off on the wrong foot.

Blame Kiv imo.

 

In terms of Shad...I think your opinion on his read of Shad is correct, but you made a statement about them being teammates.  Was that in jest?  Or do you have something that keeps from being at the bottom of your list?

 

Could you explain the bold more? Are you agreeing with Mish that I seem to be coming to Shad's rescue as w/w?

 

And based just off his own game play, I would guess that Pral is probably not mafia.  I should feel more confident when I see his reads list, but nothing he's said makes me think he's getting fed info from behind the scenes. 

 

I was going to ask you what your read on Pral was after seeing continued discussion regarding Kiv's meta/vote. How does that affect your theory with Kivam?

 

Also, Lenlo getting involved on D1 is a pleasant surprise.

 

Maybe. But is it good involvement?

 

 

@ Yates who is on your POE?

 

Easier question to answer is who is NOT...

 

- I've had Hally and Nyn green from early on.

- I love Key's posts but she's paired up with Cory so it's hard to give them an early green. In any case, they aren't in my Day 1 lynch pile.

- I actually kind of like Razen. He's easy to follow, anyway. Reminds me of the other Alanna. In a good way.

- I feel like Kivish was taking some heat early, got defensive, and got stuck in that defensive mode. That heat seems to have cooled off so I'm waiting to see what direction they go in now that they aren't against the ropes.

- I'm a little concerned about NolDerf keeping such a low profile. I don't think this game/activity is bigger than either of them so I won't buy that as an excuse.

- I haven't seen anything from BFG worth a whole lot and Clov has been hard to follow so I'm keeping an eye open there. Also not sure how I feel about the wish/celeste hydra - though some of that might just be me not knowing them.

- I'm kind of cautious about you guys. I'm not seeing a lot of reads development. Maybe expect that less from you but certainly from Seph.

- I was also expecting a lot more content from Lainey and Talya. Like, even though Talya was scum in Bellicheat? I want to see that kind of effort and probing.

Mostly, there's just this huge swath of nulls.

 

 

We ride!!!

 

All right, so his catch-up/thought-dump post mentions that he has a gut feeling about Wombat not having been treated well by the randomizing.  I brought up the post count post Wombat had made because I didn't know what his point was (and for what's its worth, I would agree with that point now that it's been explained.)  Key also mentions that Wombat hasn't put much effort forth, and brings up a past game where she's seen the same behavior, which causes AJ to then follow up with a vote after he mentions that others are having some of the same thoughts.  It kind of feels to me like he was testing the waters to see if anyone else was willing to put something out there on Wombat after he mentioned having a gut feeling that he could follow up on without getting his hands too dirty.

 

How do you characterize my vote as wanting to test the waters when I was the sole person voting Wombat and the first person to bring it up, iirc? I mentioned something I felt was off. I saw other people echo similar thoughts - I voted.

 

Regarding AJ, I was just doing some standard Deflategate trolling.  Null on him.  

 

:(

 

I didn't catch on earlier with your wording.

 

 

 

Kiv ain't sloppy dude.  There's always a purpose.  Usually multiple purposes.  If he's scum, it's not because of this.  The best way to catch a scum Kiv imo is to see if he's ignoring inconvenient facts.  His logic is always spot on, but in order to get that to work, he has to ignore premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions.

 

Good info. I'm noting that you've been supporting Kiv pretty heavily during this portion of the game, fwiw.

 

 

The best way to catch a scum Kiv imo is to see if he's ignoring inconvenient facts.  His logic is always spot on, but in order to get that to work, he has to ignore premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions.

 

Oh this can be soooo helpful.

 

 

Probably town Nyn.

 

+1

 

Catching up at work, I feel like I like how Wombat is posting, I like the energy, but I don't like his reads. Primarily on Zander/Kiv. Yates is so so town. I dunno yet on Laine, but she feels relaxed to me.

 

Wish you were more present, but I like your reads nonetheless. I can agree on Wombat's presence ITT and that I don't agree necessarily with the Zander read. Yates looking like a solid green for at this point as well.

 

You too :)

 

 

@everyone unhappy with my lack of proof in my reads list:

It was more of a PSA, I'm not trying to convince anyone they're town. I'm more interested in trying to find mafia, then convincing you that said person is mafia. 

If a train starts up on one of my town reads without a good reason, I'll be backing them up. 

 

That's swell, but It's less about you convincing anyone that the people on your list are town and more about being able to get a read on you by understanding your thought process and be able to follow up on your progression. You could at least provide a short explanation on your reads.... otherwise it's equivalent to not posting a read list at all, in my book.

 

Moar bite.

 

I like it. Basically what I said earlier, expect she said it first? Either way - I agree.

[Andrej]

@Laine - I agree with your points on Lenlo. Hoping to see more explanation of his part when I finish reading the rest of the thread tomorrow but to say the least I don't like the way he's approaching me or Zeph in this situation. Seems to be going more for thread consensus while notably not looking at Kivish.

[Andrej]

Stopping before pg 71 btw.

 

Will continue tomorrow with the last ~20. Hopefully not too many more will be added

[Zander?]

Stupid DM ruining my awesome Metallica quotes.

 

Metallica GOAT

[Zander?]

gonna try and get caught up here.  theses WoT are killing me cause i cant quote them.

[Talya]

Carrying with Page 32...and for Yates will be putting them in spoilers so he doesn't have to look at them :p

 

 

 

 

Pg32

• cory asks Clov what he would get from Kiv flipping mafia on Pral and Clov replied hw would be looking at Pral - I agree with Clov here, Cory would have known that...wouldn't he?
• Kiv says it wasn't a reaction test just wanted him to post to so he could try and read him
• Yates asks Kiv what Pral's continued silence mean in terms of alignment with regards to his prod - Kiv answered this already, not sure if Yates saw or was trying to push this angle
• Cory talks about Nyns Meta in other games, and how it is different here
• clov points out to kivam that if he does post it's obvious he will have content - disagree here (not on Pral) but people show without content, off the top of my head Hally and Zander are two
• Sili asks Cory why clear Hally so quickly - I agree here, I don't think she has done much at, her vote on Kiv was thin and then saying he "didn't" unvote doesn't count? Unless I see something better when reading on she will be in my scum pile

Pg 33

• Cory says he still wants to develop his read on Hally - will look forward to this!
• Seph letting us know he is picking up the fiance and will be back - Don't like this post, hasn't posted for ages and puts this here..why? showing he is here?
• Darthe - Says Cory putting in the work but wants more fire - wary, Clov prob town, likes Nyn's reaction to Clov and Kiv is playing a reactionary game - I agree with that bit about Kiv, but he does have it coming from all sides, would be nice to see some other reads from him. I also go with Wary on Cory, but don't agree on Clov
• Wombats posts with he usual flippant self, I agree with his "silly" comment to hally

Pg34

• Seph towny list - tree/celeste, nyn and sili and his WoT - Hally's vote pointless (agree), likes Trees tone, likes Mish reaction vote, thought Laines answers were good. More content than his other half, feel better about Seph here than Zander - @SEPH - You said your saw the same thing in the last game with Kiv can you expand on that
• Nolder arrives - just a few comments on fluff
• Dice in the building - thinks Laine's idea would stifle information
• Nolder also wants to see fire from Cory - I take it he is normally more fired up than he is now? In what way?
• AJ's post, likes Shad, Nyn and Hally, Zander/Laine/Seph circle thing (I like this..lol), Kiv slot giving him trouble.

 

 

 

I'm getting fed up with this already, it's hard work. Everyone is going over the same stuff over and over to death

 

Quick Summary:

 

Hally - she seemed to gear up to the Kiv vote and went there, when it was pointed out her mistake of they weren't on the vote, she made the excuse of kivam not unvoting - this just stinks - going to ISO her and see what else she has done since. Wolfy

 

Sili - I did read his ISO before after Nyn said what she saw as town, and there is more consistency there, good questioning, I feel more towny on him now

 

Clov/BFG - Not sure here, BFG I haven't seen too much of to get a towny feel, Clov seems more argumentative (is this his style?), a Null creeping down

 

Kivam/Mish - I still feel her posts have been honest, Kiv, I can't read him, I can see where a lot of the stuff he says comes from (I was in the last game with him), so it's not a shock here, would now like to see more hunting, the arguments back and forth are the same over and over, I think people are jumping on other's wagons here in terms points. I don't agree with a lot of the points that have been made, they seemed trivial and blown up. so Null slightly towny because of Mish

 

Alanna - very underwhelming so far, large game and I get that, spent first part of the thread defending her LAH stuff. Null

 

Zander/Seph - Zander needs to up date his game, evolve, because I don't feel I can pass him on what he has done didn't like his emo stuff, it was uck! I don't care when people say Zander does this Zander does that he can do it as town or mafia and it doesn't help his town game,  Seph I feel better about at the moment, so torn here. I'll go with Null, only because of Seph, need to read some more of the thread

 

Nyn/Dice - Disagree with Nyn on Kiv, but I like her push on him and her reactions to questions seem she believes what she is saying. She would be my top town read so far. I forgot Dice was with her, lol. Like to see more from him

 

Womby - So far just odd comments to people, I remember these improving later, so will reserve judgement until read more. You're a hydra? where is Oci (where is he?)

 

Shad - hasn't done anything bad would like to see more of him, been a bit quiet

 

Pral - At this point in the reread hasn't been in - I think I liked his posts later, but will have to go over them

 

Yates - Not sure on Yates I felt he was pushing Kiv over stuff that had been answered, Even after the stuff I read so far, he doesn't stand out :/ will need to ISO

 

Lenlo - At this point not done much

 

JS - hasn't posted as yet in my reread, though I know he has since, didn't leave an impression, very little content

 

csarmi - not seen anything put spam posts later from him, but by my reread he wasn't in the game and Beck was meh!

 

 

Cory/Key - not sure how to read Cory, others are not seeing fire, as said by a few, I'm taking this would be normal Cory, Key I have liked better, questioning and getting into the game. Although don't like being pushed down just because SHE can't remember my posts (she ISO :p )

 

Nolder/Darthe - Darthe underwhelming, Nolder, was just picking his game as I left the reread, I think Nolder is doing all the work, will make a better judgement when finished

 

Wish/Cel - I have liked their entrance into the game so far, I know there is a reads list from them which I need to look at, tthey haven't done much except ask questions, so Null, will need to see more

 

Razen - I think he has had some good posts, I want to ISO to be sure, but I think I thought before I liked them

 

AJ - He hadn't been around much, I'll reserve on him until I have read his reread. But notthing is standing out

 

I think that is everybody, if I missed you sorry,

 

[v]Hally[/] She's my top wolf read for now. As explained above.

 

A lot of people are null, this is reason I don't like D1 and big games :p

 

But after I finish the reread I  hope to be more clear on people.

 

And no more blow by blow...It drains me, I thought it would be a quick exercise.

[Talya]

[v]Hally[/v]

 

bloody fingers...

[Talya]

Zander - in your reply box at the top on the left hand side is a little light switch thing, click that and you can see the formatting, that may make it easier for you

[Kivam]

Reread continuing:

 

I have a mild concern about a player but I am not going to air it out yet

 

The player I was concerned about was BFG.

At the time BFG had made a single post:

 

Good morning :)

 

Innocuous enough. I think this is about ~8 AM her time, so a checking in before work/whatever type deal. I expected she'd post a couple of times and chat around before her volume dropped off, as she's been very comfortable and very involved in her last handful of villager games. 

 

Nothing followed this. Again, not going to condemn someone who could be having a busy morning, IDK what people's IRL deals are, whatever. But it reminded me of something I had mentally noted down in 9 to 5 mafia when I was her mafia partner for a day (she subbed out around ~n1) - BFG has some trouble naturally interacting in real time with people as Mafia. IDK if it's just that little trigger in your brain that looks over a post and goes "should I post?" not hitting out of some weird self-consciousness, but I remember it there, and I remember in the one day I was playing with her I was making sure to talk to her ITT and give her lines to pursue because she wasn't really moving on her own volition.

 

She was more active in a different Mafia game - AH's Pokemon game - and I am going to look it over when I get time, but even know her contribution is one "larger" more succinct reads posts where she discusses various things (#582) but again is not really interested in communicating openly and in real-time. Reminds me a lot of Cass tbh - assumes people will find a wall of words / reads villagery and leave it alone for some time, but lacks the minute-by-minute commitment and willingness to relax and discuss ITT.

 

Not a condemnation and I want to to chew on it some more but if I would guess this is Mafia!BFG more often than Town!BFG by a fair margin.

 

 

This is a stretch, to say the least
 

[Zander?]

I'm here, doing my reread.

 

@ Alanna, you don't like Kiv doing what he did for his own agenda, why does this make you think scum rather than null?

 

about Zander - Every game I'm in I try to improve and take note of what people say, my game is evolving all the time, and try different things. However you and others have told Zander over and over about his game and he never evolves it. after our last game I feel like he won't change it because when he is scum he will use it to cover himself. If he was town, wouldn't you think he would want to show it more, instead of relying on old SW Zander that everyone loved. It's a cliche and how do you justify calling him town because of it?

 

I know this was at Alanna but i wanted to comment here cause im not a fan of this assessment of me:

 

Well im not as good of a player as you yet but i do feel im changing and evolving my game some.  After SW and Bellicheat everyone was after me to stop with the excessive lolololololol, !!!!!!!! and CAPSYELL.  which I think ive been doing for the most part this game

 

I wont change my tone, personality and general play style because theres not a different DM Zander, A Skype Zander, A Mafia Zander and an RL Zander....they are all one in the same.  Dont like it....tough cookies my dear.  Thats not to say Im not trying to get a little better each game cause thats my goal each time out.  Also in red that sounds like sound strategy imo.  But thats on you  to figure out right?  You've played enough games with me to decide if im playing my town or scum game but it sticks out that a number of players who know my style and have played with me as much as you are still reading me town with the same knowledge of both my game styles and personality....

 

I think I am showing it tbh.  if you think im scum explain why and vote. but dont try to think im not trying or attempting to evolve.  I am, maybe not fast enough for your personal tastes but then again since im reading you as null atp (havent really looked into you fully atp) your comment here is just kinda meh to me,

 

The whole evolving point is a little silly anyway...thats not basing anything on current game content or past games.  Its like saying I cant read Zander as town because he should play differently based on a game style he hasnt yet developed or shown or i wont read him as town or scum cause hes playing the same as town or scum.

 

Read my posts, evaluate what you think of them and my meta then decide and glgl.

[Kivam]

 

Snip

 Worth noting on the same line of thought I have played ~1 game with Beck where he was a villager and I remember him being far more relaxed and conversation then he's been in this game

 

I don't want to BOX HIM OUT because I get this might be a culture-related jump but the Mafia Universe game was also with several people, was content-heavy AND had many unfamiliar faces, and he had little problem adjusting and making intelligent posts there

 

This was essentially the only comment from anyone on Beck that I can recall until Csarmi replaced him, and I don't remember much from him either.  Definitely way too early for concern atm given how absurdly hard catching up is, but something to keep in mind for later days.

[Kivam]

 

I mean Ocicat/John Snow are yet to check in at this moment

 

I don't really know how relevant that is to making a read or how "helpful" that observation would be

 

In either alignment I could see Kiv pointing out Pral not posting because Pral has such a known habit of missing long stretches

 

Doesn't make the action itself any better, but if you asked me "who's a player that hasn't posted yet?" he would come to mind first just because of the association

 

Really?  After our discussion yesterday, you don't see how Kivam - specifically - singling out one inactive (who he admits to having minimal experience with) while there were others he could have mentioned could be worth noting for once there are some flips?

 

 

 

This, btw, is exactly the line of thought I warned you against.  If we're ever in a game where I'm town and you're scum, and you end up leading a string of mislynches on this approach and then get lynched yourself, don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[Kivam]

 

Think early on in HoC - I associate Town!Nyn with being incredibly committed to her reads and genuinely pushing them.  It's not uncommon for her to write multiple paragraphs at a time trying to push somebody and explain her side.  She barely said a sentence in a half between two or three posts where she pushed Kivam.  I wanted to see how committed she was to it and how much effort she actually made in explaining herself.

K. Just remember she was hydra with Hally in HoC. And I believe they were playing up the good cop-bad cop angle a bit. That was my mod perspective anyway.

 

At this point I'm more concerned with the content of her posts than the tone, though I do think it looks like she believes what she is saying - and that's important.

 

 

Interesting extended discussion from Yates responding to Clov's note re nyn.  Defending?  Pocketing? Just a concerned townie with a different view?  Call it null for now, but worth looking back at if either Yates or Nyn end up being scum

 

[Talya]

 

I'm here, doing my reread.

 

@ Alanna, you don't like Kiv doing what he did for his own agenda, why does this make you think scum rather than null?

 

about Zander - Every game I'm in I try to improve and take note of what people say, my game is evolving all the time, and try different things. However you and others have told Zander over and over about his game and he never evolves it. after our last game I feel like he won't change it because when he is scum he will use it to cover himself. If he was town, wouldn't you think he would want to show it more, instead of relying on old SW Zander that everyone loved. It's a cliche and how do you justify calling him town because of it?

 

I know this was at Alanna but i wanted to comment here cause im not a fan of this assessment of me:

 

Well im not as good of a player as you yet but i do feel im changing and evolving my game some.  After SW and Bellicheat everyone was after me to stop with the excessive lolololololol, !!!!!!!! and CAPSYELL.  which I think ive been doing for the most part this game

 

I wont change my tone, personality and general play style because theres not a different DM Zander, A Skype Zander, A Mafia Zander and an RL Zander....they are all one in the same.  Dont like it....tough cookies my dear.  Thats not to say Im not trying to get a little better each game cause thats my goal each time out.  Also in red that sounds like sound strategy imo.  But thats on you  to figure out right?  You've played enough games with me to decide if im playing my town or scum game but it sticks out that a number of players who know my style and have played with me as much as you are still reading me town with the same knowledge of both my game styles and personality....

 

I think I am showing it tbh.  if you think im scum explain why and vote. but dont try to think im not trying or attempting to evolve.  I am, maybe not fast enough for your personal tastes but then again since im reading you as null atp (havent really looked into you fully atp) your comment here is just kinda meh to me,

 

The whole evolving point is a little silly anyway...thats not basing anything on current game content or past games.  Its like saying I cant read Zander as town because he should play differently based on a game style he hasnt yet developed or shown or i wont read him as town or scum cause hes playing the same as town or scum.

 

Read my posts, evaluate what you think of them and my meta then decide and glgl.

 

 

I'm not asking you to change you, but the constant, I've answered that and abrupt replies when asked things, is not a good town look and you have been told about it by loads. Second bold, it's up to me to figure out but you show me you are town as well. By making the replies you have done to me shows as unhelpful, puts doubt that you can be town. Yo play Scum and Town the same, so saying I have played enough games with you to know is rubbish, I have told you before about your game, so this is not something new.

 

The two blue bits are contradictory, you say you are trying to change your game, and yet you think evolving is silly? You can still be you but note what people say (friends here) who try to say how you could improve, by showing thought process.

 

I find it odd that Laine reads you town off the bat, not sure how, as your game is not different from D1 of Belichick or any other, when town or mafia.