[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

WWWwombat · August 14, 2015

*snipped*

Who is mafia and why.

Zander, for pushing an inane angle against Kiv. Beyond that, I have my eyes on Talya and Hally.

Why Talya and Hally?

AJ is null to me right now FYI.

Me too.

Voting me for what Seph said I said instead of looking at what I said is super-bad. [v]Misheru[/v]

Surprisingly not that bothered by Kivam yet.

Which given this section, I'm not sure you've done. Or at least, you're coming across as conflicted in your read on the Mish/Kiv hydra. You're not bothered by Kiv, but you knee-jerk vote Mish for her vote on you based on Seph's misrep of your reason for voting. You come across as rather jumpy and looking for any excuse to place a vote, because it's a simple enough thing to just point out and say look, that's not what happened. But you slapped an OMGUS vote on - and admitted that you haven't seen anything that's bothered you too much from her other half.

I like this point by Razen. Earlier Shad addressed this, I think, by saying something along the lines of he votes for who is scummy, regardless. I'll try and find it in a minute. But it seems imperative to take the other person into account when dealing with hydras.

Talya because she's been a little bit uninvolved and something she said struck me as being potentially deliberately obtuse. Hally because although her tone is good, she's become better at that as scum recently and I don't like her angle on Kiv's AJ vote.

WWWwombat · August 14, 2015

What was the "legit assumption that perhaps wasn't accurate"?
Okay. You are undermining a potential scum hunting tool. I usually get cranky when people do this kind of stuff but this is like the 3rd time this has happened to me this game so whatever... lol

Basically, this is the post in question:

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v]. If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet. Pral, where're you at? Start laying some content down.
One interpretation of this post is; "I'm voting for Pral BECAUSE he likes to lurk as scum and hasn't even checked in yet."

That's the interpretation I had.

However, another interpretation is; "I'm voting for Pral since nobody is doing anything else and I like to prod lurkers when I don't have better things to do with my vote. ALSO, he likes to lurk as scum. Let's make him post a lot."

This was not an interpretation that immediately came to mind but is one that seems to be implied by his defense posts. I kind of didn't want to spell it out since it would have been better if HE had said something like this. Also, I could be wrong about this interpretation.

Still, the second interpretation seems like it could be implied if you string together this, this, this, this, this, and this. It's like he's answering suspicion without even realizing that we are all assuming the first interpretation - ie. he's unaware of why his post is being read as an accusation. But if you reread those links with the second interpretation in mind? I can buy it.

Kiv ain't sloppy dude. There's always a purpose. Usually multiple purposes. If he's scum, it's not because of this. The best way to catch a scum Kiv imo is to see if he's ignoring inconvenient facts. His logic is always spot on, but in order to get that to work, he has to ignore premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions.

michellem · August 14, 2015

Slow your role there, Swag. You POE'd me in a game where I had put in more work than any living player not named Laine, and got my entire strategy wiped out by a sub that I don't believe should have ever happened.

I'm actually not sure what you mean here. I've never fully understood the term POE, it's not my fault I ended up subbing in, and I thought it was a good thing that I recognized that your play here is different?

A few questions on your reads list.

-Do you have anything to back up Wombat besides being gut?

No, if I had I would've said so.

-I had the same observation about Wish, but in addition to being new to the site, I'm pretty sure she's very new to the game in general. Does that affect your opinion of her questioning?

Imust've missed that part. It makes me feel better about her, I understand better where's coming from. Back to a solid null on her too then.

-After your comment to him about Shad, I'm surprised that AJ isn't further down. I would have expected him there over Sili based on the reasoning, and maybe Talya.

It's a gut thing. I don't like those comments AJ gave, but it doesn't feel as bad. My gut says it's AJ reading Shad as town, my head says "scummy". Since I tend to trust my gut more on D1, he's in the slightly scummy pile.

The top part really didn't matter, just being a sore loser FWIW POE means process of elimination - find everybody that can't be mafia, lynch the remaining players.

IRT the Wombat read - that's fair enough, but you called out AJ for having weak reasoning on Wombat being mafia - it was his gut. If you're gut reading him town, I'm not sure why somebody can't read him another way?

In terms of Shad...I think your opinion on his read of Shad is correct, but you made a statement about them being teammates. Was that in jest? Or do you have something that keeps from being at the bottom of your list?

My AJ read has solely to do with his comments answering for Shad, not his read on Wombat (I think you might be confusing players there?). Of course someone can gut read a player in another way than my gut reads.

I wanted to provoke AJ into an answer, because I read him best when we go head to head, thus the teammate comment.

Also, Clov's avi is really throwing me for a loop because it looks like one Sakaea used to have.

Kae had the Stark symbol from GoT, Clov's avi is the wolf brooch Cloud from FF7 wears. Kae's was white background, black wolf, Clov's is the other way around XD

(And it makes me miss my Cloud everytime I see it)

Kaylee · August 14, 2015

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Seph/Zander (4): ClovFG, John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivish (5): Hallia, Nyce, Zander/Seph, Shad, Sili

Lenlo (2): CorKey, Razen

Wombicat (1): AJ

John Snow (1): Yates

Not Voting (7): Pral, Csarmi, Talya, Wish/Celeste, Kivish, Nolderf, Laine

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

Yates · August 14, 2015

Okay I'm starting at page 20 from where I posted #390 and going to the top of page 39 at #761

In that whole catch up all I was able to take away was this:

Yates beat me

And also, the sexual chemistry between us would be toe curling. ^{_{Sorry, Zander.}}

WWWwombat · August 14, 2015

Zander, that's still not an answer. You quoted that post and said "again with these types of comments". Everybody knows what prior posts you were referring to. What you haven't explained is what in that post you looked at and said "oh, this is AtE just like the others".

Yep.

Songstress · August 14, 2015

Also, Clov's avi is really throwing me for a loop because it looks like one Sakaea used to have.

Kae had the Stark symbol from GoT, Clov's avi is the wolf brooch Cloud from FF7 wears. Kae's was white background, black wolf, Clov's is the other way around XD

(And it makes me miss my Cloud everytime I see it)

Kae also had the FF7 wolf brooch for a while, but with inverted colors - I think that was her avi when I first met her, before the Stark Direwolf.

Cory Caboose · August 14, 2015

Yates beat me

And also, the sexual chemistry between us would be toe curling

RayRiceSmiling.gif?

Zander? · August 14, 2015

I also dont understand why Im getting flack for my read of Kiv's emo stuff when IM NOT the only one doing so?? if its something else please let me know. ive also listed other reasons for my vote so im not getting it,

Also if I missed anything directed at me please let me know.

You called a post AtE when it clearly wasn't. When pressed on it, you gave some lame excuse about meaning to quote his previous posts. An excuse I don't buy. Furthermore, adding in Kiv's statement that his emo-fest was a gambit and that you still haven't let up on him for it as far as I can tell, this looks even more like you are ignoring some very pertinent details. It's like you found an easy narrative for Kiv (that he's emo and therefore scum) and locked it in. That doesn't look to me like the behavior of a townie trying to find scum. That looks to me like the behavior of mafia trying to find a townie who is playing poorly and is therefore a lynch target.

What was the "legit assumption that perhaps wasn't accurate"?
Okay. You are undermining a potential scum hunting tool. I usually get cranky when people do this kind of stuff but this is like the 3rd time this has happened to me this game so whatever... lol

Basically, this is the post in question:

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v]. If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet. Pral, where're you at? Start laying some content down.
One interpretation of this post is; "I'm voting for Pral BECAUSE he likes to lurk as scum and hasn't even checked in yet."

That's the interpretation I had.

However, another interpretation is; "I'm voting for Pral since nobody is doing anything else and I like to prod lurkers when I don't have better things to do with my vote. ALSO, he likes to lurk as scum. Let's make him post a lot."

This was not an interpretation that immediately came to mind but is one that seems to be implied by his defense posts. I kind of didn't want to spell it out since it would have been better if HE had said something like this. Also, I could be wrong about this interpretation.

Still, the second interpretation seems like it could be implied if you string together this, this, this, this, this, and this. It's like he's answering suspicion without even realizing that we are all assuming the first interpretation - ie. he's unaware of why his post is being read as an accusation. But if you reread those links with the second interpretation in mind? I can buy it.

Kiv ain't sloppy dude. There's always a purpose. Usually multiple purposes. If he's scum, it's not because of this. The best way to catch a scum Kiv imo is to see if he's ignoring inconvenient facts. His logic is always spot on, but in order to get that to work, he has to ignore premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions.

im seeing a disconnect with the bold.

and i find something scummy i go after it. and its like 1/2 through day 1... nothing is LOCKED IN. No one has looked scummier thus far imo. the AtE ive went over already.

Ill keep on this to unless I have reason not to,

Zander? · August 14, 2015

Okay I'm starting at page 20 from where I posted #390 and going to the top of page 39 at #761

In that whole catch up all I was able to take away was this:

Yates beat me

And also, the sexual chemistry between us would be toe curling. ^{_{Sorry, Zander.}}

I quit life.....glgl

alannalynn · August 14, 2015

Okay I'm starting at page 20 from where I posted #390 and going to the top of page 39 at #761

In that whole catch up all I was able to take away was this:

Yates beat me

And also, the sexual chemistry between us would be toe curling. ^{_{Sorry, Zander.}}

So you read that whole thing and this is all you took away? Sometimes I'm not sure if you're hitting on me or Zander ,but I guess I don't really wanna know.

Where's my summary of current events or should I just go to bed?

Zander? · August 14, 2015

Yates beat me

And also, the sexual chemistry between us would be toe curling

RayRiceSmiling.gif?

GOAT

Yates · August 14, 2015

The best way to catch a scum Kiv imo is to see if he's ignoring inconvenient facts. His logic is always spot on, but in order to get that to work, he has to ignore premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions.

Oh this can be soooo helpful.

alannalynn · August 14, 2015

It's okay Zander, Clov is my backup plan.

WWWwombat · August 14, 2015

Wish - a. may return as true, but if so, I don't know about it. The only other truly dedicated lurker in this game (based on my experience) is Hallia, and she was already actively posting (and had recently said she was making an effort to be more active). Keep in mind what I said earlier - I have a lot of mafia experience, but not with most of these players (there's a reason Wombat said he didn't buy my emo headfake, but pretty much everyone else did ... he's played with me for years). So wrt most of this game's players, asking me if they usually lurk as scum makes as much sense as asking you if they do. I just don't know the answer.

Got it. *nod nod*

What you say here seems genuine. Why did you emo headfake? I don't understand that.

Because in my last game (the one I just accidentally self-lynched in), Shad and I got into an argument about the utility of using emo as a towntell. I said it could be faked, started to fake it but didn't carry it through, and he said "well, I didn't believe it anyway".

And since I'm an INTP, I took that as a challenge

Pretty sure I won the argument; so if it gets me lynched in this game, it was still worth it

=/

you accused zander of misrepping you because he used the word emo.

Nuance, br0. U scum?

Yates · August 14, 2015

RayRiceSmiling.gif?

michellem · August 14, 2015

Zander, I'm also still waiting for a response from you.

Also, Clov's avi is really throwing me for a loop because it looks like one Sakaea used to have.

Kae had the Stark symbol from GoT, Clov's avi is the wolf brooch Cloud from FF7 wears. Kae's was white background, black wolf, Clov's is the other way around XD

(And it makes me miss my Cloud everytime I see it)

Kae also had the FF7 wolf brooch for a while, but with inverted colors - I think that was her avi when I first met her, before the Stark Direwolf.

Aaaah. Well then ignore me! :happy:

I have a necklace with the wolf brooch, it's one of my favourites. Originally bought it for Vos, but he never uses it, sooo... It's mine XD

WWWwombat · August 14, 2015

Wish - a. may return as true, but if so, I don't know about it. The only other truly dedicated lurker in this game (based on my experience) is Hallia, and she was already actively posting (and had recently said she was making an effort to be more active). Keep in mind what I said earlier - I have a lot of mafia experience, but not with most of these players (there's a reason Wombat said he didn't buy my emo headfake, but pretty much everyone else did ... he's played with me for years). So wrt most of this game's players, asking me if they usually lurk as scum makes as much sense as asking you if they do. I just don't know the answer.

Got it. *nod nod*

What you say here seems genuine. Why did you emo headfake? I don't understand that.

Because in my last game (the one I just accidentally self-lynched in), Shad and I got into an argument about the utility of using emo as a towntell. I said it could be faked, started to fake it but didn't carry it through, and he said "well, I didn't believe it anyway".

And since I'm an INTP, I took that as a challenge

Pretty sure I won the argument; so if it gets me lynched in this game, it was still worth it

JFC are you kidding me man???!!!

This is about as far from a Pro-Town play as I think I've seen since Heart was mislynced as an Un CC'd Doc in SW.

So your ego is more important then game solving??!!!

lolololol imo

At the start of D1? Sure. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I think I know what you're doing. I hope I'm not wrong.

Nynaeve · August 14, 2015

1 Red. I didn't mean to be patronizing, sorry.

2 Blue. I dropped it at the beginning because I was advised to by Kiv. I didn't necessarily agree with the math, but I agreed with it being useless on going after Alanna after. Then Yates asked me later what my stance was un-filtered by Kiv, and I replied to that. I wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.

3. Green. Bad grammar in my post you quoted there; I ment the votes placed on OTHER PLAYERS, not us, felt like placeholder votes to me. Like several players had placed a joke vote or other vote they didn't feel strongly about, and was waiting for the day to drag on a bit. Because if too many had moved on us too fast, some were bound to point out not to rush-lynch on day 1. Instead I feel like mafia is sitting back, poking the focus back to us every now and then, and waiting for an acceptable time to pile on.

1. np

2. Okay. Why, after conversing with Kiv, did you decide that it was useless to go after Alanna?

3. Fair enough.

michellem · August 14, 2015

11890919_789226774561855_792628837592873

How I feel this Day XD

Zander? · August 14, 2015

It's okay Zander, Clov is my backup plan.

WWWwombat · August 14, 2015

Last I saw Kivam was in the lead. Nyn might be tunneling mish. While I think mish overreacted, I don't understand the full picture. Nyn said Kivam was covering for Mish' behavior.

Nyn is taking apart Mish's posts to build a narrative. It's a tunnel. In particular I don't agree that Mish expecting more substantive votes on her contradicts not feeling the votes already placed.

I haven't been tunneling Mish. I've been asking her questions, that by the by, she's yet to answer. Mish's overreaction in itself is irrelevant to me. She gets dramatic all the time, so it's not some kind of tell with her (which I've pointed out already). People who don't know her, though, would normally see it that way. As for me? I need to lean on her to get a good feel. I don't really care how it makes me look. That's how I roll and it's not about to change.

The issues I have with Kivam I've already covered. Nothing he said made me feel better about that slot. My issue with her I can expand on, in case it wasn't clear. She expressed her opinion on the hydra matter and placed a vote on Alanna. I actually liked the way she explained herself and said as much at the time. Then Kiv stepped in, gave her the mathematical explanation and she folded. But then later when questioned again about it (by Cory, I think), she went back to saying it's BS. I know that she said Kivam is like half mentoring her or whatever. But I don't care about Kivam's clout. And if she ended up agreeing with him, then why did she revert back to her original stance? I know Mish and I think that her getting momentarily complacent with a fap explanation from the oh so great Kiv is uncharacteristic of her. In some ways she's as stubborn as me and so it sticks out to me that she would do that when she sounded so determined . It's fine if you don't agree, but that's the impression I'm getting from it.

This slot seems to be big on excuses. Oh Kiv is mentoring me, so that's why I did that. Oh I wasn't really referring to meta, cause I don't believe in meta ldo, I just said that to lure Pral to post, oh I only did a shout out to pral and not other people who didn't check in, cause he's the only one of them I know. Oh I wasn't really being emo, I was just faking it cause bla bla bla bliddy bla. My god, I'm just so misunderstood. This slot is dirty. Kill it with fire.

Probably town Nyn.

Zander? · August 14, 2015

Wish - a. may return as true, but if so, I don't know about it. The only other truly dedicated lurker in this game (based on my experience) is Hallia, and she was already actively posting (and had recently said she was making an effort to be more active). Keep in mind what I said earlier - I have a lot of mafia experience, but not with most of these players (there's a reason Wombat said he didn't buy my emo headfake, but pretty much everyone else did ... he's played with me for years). So wrt most of this game's players, asking me if they usually lurk as scum makes as much sense as asking you if they do. I just don't know the answer.

Got it. *nod nod*

What you say here seems genuine. Why did you emo headfake? I don't understand that.

Because in my last game (the one I just accidentally self-lynched in), Shad and I got into an argument about the utility of using emo as a towntell. I said it could be faked, started to fake it but didn't carry it through, and he said "well, I didn't believe it anyway".

And since I'm an INTP, I took that as a challenge

Pretty sure I won the argument; so if it gets me lynched in this game, it was still worth it

=/

you accused zander of misrepping you because he used the word emo.

Nuance, br0. U scum?

are you?

Zander? · August 14, 2015

@ Mish: What question? sorry if i missed it

michellem · August 14, 2015

2 Blue. I dropped it at the beginning because I was advised to by Kiv. I didn't necessarily agree with the math, but I agreed with it being useless on going after Alanna after. Then Yates asked me later what my stance was un-filtered by Kiv, and I replied to that. I wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.

2. Okay. Why, after conversing with Kiv, did you decide that it was useless to go after Alanna?

Cause it made me think that I was continuing the exact type of conversation I got annoyed about in the first place (mechanics vs gameplay). That's also a reason I answered Yates when he asked, to get those thoughts out in a way that I hoped cleared up why I had reacted, but wouldn't prolong the non-gameplay conversation.

[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

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