[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Zander?]

 

Yates

Razen

You're late to the party, bro.

 

 

 

 

The irony of that post hasn't even really struck you yet, Wombat.

[csarmi]

As for the new girls i wouldnt go so far as to clear them but i did like their tone. I can pull some examples when i am on computer but they dont seem to be a point of interest here anyhow.

[csarmi]

 

 

Anyone else getting that tingly dead air dead villager sense about now?  Maybe it's because I'm refreshing every five minutes since I'm still worried about my own survival, but I don't remember the thread being this slow at any point since the very start of D1.

Maybe. Or it's just monday morning.

Maybe.

I take it you don't know who you want to vote yet Csarmi?

That's correct.

 

I know who i dont want to but it doesn't seem to help. Gonna check Lenlo and Zeph.

[Zander?]

@Zander/Kivam:

 

Nyce is town for Nyn being Nyn and Dice intro and attitude. Town Dice doesnt care how he is viewed. Wolf Dice is often frozen (tends to post more on wolf chat than thread) and self conscious.

 

ok how about everyone/someone else?  you have any more thoughts.  seems like you're kinda slithering through this all.  you finish reading yet....?

[alannalynn]

I'm going through a Nolderf ISO now to see if I can glean anything from them

[WWWwombat]

#1952 is gross.

[Lenlo]

 

AJ whats the case for Lenlo? He looked quite normal to me and also i seriously doubt he can be read d1.

 

He seems to be making up/confusing a bunch of crap.

 

Says that me/Zander would be a good info lynch but won't commit to scum reading me. Doesn't want to apply this same logic towards Kivam even though his justification was that we had a lot of interactions ITT. Says that he mixed me up with someone else, but doesn't remember who after the connection is made that he only begins to see me as a good lynch after Cory voices some concerns. Talks like he doesn't like my body of work in one post, says he thought it was good in another.

 

Just a lot of inconsistencies and disconnects.

 

Again, the Cory thing was what, 4 posts? Yeah some major concerns in an area of the thread where alot of people were getting "concerns" voiced about them. So suspect. Much wow.

 

As for the body inconsistencies with the body of you work, one read was from skimming 50 pages, the other was after reading all of yours in a vaccum. Im sure you can see why they might be just alittle different. You early work up to page 30 and then between pages 35 and 80 were crap. What actual gameplay posts you did end up making on Pg 34 and 84 on were good though. The part I thought was negative was how you and afew other people were flooding us with WoTs, spoilered or not.

 

Good morning. I'll be around for the next ~45 minutes or so while I get ready.

 

@Shad - Lenlo did not correct himself. He was asked for reasons as to why I was suddenly a gut read of his and didn't provide anything - choosing to argue the phrasing of his statement with Key instead. It wasn't until he came back around pg 100 that he said he had me mixed up with someone else.

Key started arguing the phrasing of the post first, asking why I would ask one thing and then not expect something else. I answered what she brought up and what she brought up was my phrasing.

[Lenlo]

I have to leave to go to a meeting with a professor. I hope to be around more before deadline, but I cant be sure.

 

Have fun. Plox no lunch. I dont like to eat till 1pm.

[alannalynn]

#1952 is gross.

dude you need to link your stuff

[WWWwombat]

Groups really aren't ordered. Colors indicate the strength of the read

 

CorKey - Liking the way I kept agreeing with points Key made on my read through. She's pretty on the ball and I think she's asking the right kind of questions. Cory is playing how I would expect him to as a villabro. He's done the reverse meta thing with me in the past a wolf, but I think his concern regarding my activity level during the week was genuine.

 

Nyce - Feeling pretty good about Nyn. She's showing that sort of aggressiveness and nitpicking that I associate with her townie game. Even if I don't necessarily agree with all the points she makes I still think they look good for her. Still want to see more from Dice since I can usually read him pretty well, but even without his participation thus far I still feel good about this slot.

 

Yates - Liking Yates's progression and line of questioning ITT. Comes across to me as being objective and not trying to twist things they way I would expect him to as scum. Glad to have my Amigo here.

 

Razen - I have liked mostly all of Razen's posts (save for the ones on me ). The way he's doing his fact checking and analyzing gives me the impression he's very invested in this game and genuinely trying to figure people out. I've never played with him before so idk if he's capable of that sort of 'work' as scum, but for D1 he looks pretty solid imo.

 

ClovFG - Haven't seen much from BFG yet, but I know how the schedule issue can be. I've liked Clov's willingness to discuss/engage over his reads and the sort of evidence he is using to support them. I think he's probably capable of that as a wolf, but if I had to guess I would say he's a villager. Still would like to see more from BFG though.

 

Pral - Not a ton of posts from him yet, but that's pretty typical. What he has posted is pretty content laden though and I like the way he's making his reads. What I've seen from him in the past is that he tends to positively read people who make sense, so imo his placement of players makes a lot of sense from a Pral POV.

 

Shad - Not as heavily involved as I would expect, but the stuff he has posted was good imo. He seems to be genuinely trying to make sense of the current arguments in thread and weigh them without bias.

 

Zeph - Don't have much of a read on Seph yet, but ignoring my own statements regarding Zander's playstyle, I wanna believe the dude is town. Would like to see his thoughts on some of the other players though.

 

Hallia - I thought Hallia's backbone showing early on was a good thing. She jumped right into the thick of things at the start and didn't back down. I think her reaction to Kivam is one she'd make naturally too. Would like to see more thoughts from her regarding the rest of the players though as I'm trying to ignore the drop in her volume to indicate something bad. That said, when she does pop in it's usually game oriented and I haven't disliked any of the reads she's put forward thus far.

 

Wombat - Didn't feel too great about Wombat to start, but it seems he's starting to pick up. Should probably have him more null, but I think my like of his game in general affects how I read him. Will need more info moving forward before I can really pin him down though.

 

Sili - Haven't looked too hard at Sili tbh. I've seen some of his casing towards Kivam and I think the explanation behind it checks out regarding Kivam's meta for misrepping as scum but I would still like to see more.

 

Laine - Seems to be pretty busy. I liked the convo we were having last night but I should probably go back and look at her posts again to get a better feel.

 

Nolderp - Another pending read until I read Nolder's larger posts. Generally underwhelmed by Darthe's participation at this point but I don't think that's really indicative of anything other than he's busy. The dude can be a top poster as a wolf, so I'm not going to count that as a negative mark.

 

Csarmi - Haven't seen much from Csarmi since he subbed in. Kind of amused by Wombat's comment though saying the last thing this game needed was someone who was gonna post a ton but never be caught up. The biggest thing I've seen was his staunch opposal to the LAH thing - which objectively could be pushed as either alignment. Still null.

 

JS - Don't have a ton of playing experience with Snow to make a solid call here. Generally I don't like his lack of evidence to support his reads, or how he slid onto Zeph's wagon. Looking at Pral's explanation of his style, I can see the points. From what I recall in the AG game he had a pretty fast start but was killed pretty early so didn't really get the opportunity to read him that well. Wanna see his updated reads whenever he gets back to the thread.

 

Kivam - Now that Mish has dropped, I'm not really sure how I'll proceed reading this slot. There are some stuff I didn't like about him, but that could be my own personal bias considering I was the focus of his vendetta in the beginning. Generally I have to remind myself that I think his style of posting is more his personality of being a slimy lawyer than actual alignment indicators. I think his content has gotten a little better now that he's not such of a focus for the thread, and there are some behaviors he's exhibited that I don't think scum would do in a general sense but I don't think I can apply those to him necessarily. All that said, I can see how he's the lead wagon currently and probably not a bad choice considering the amount of content revolving around him.

 

wish tree/Celeste - Can't really use wish-tree's tone as something to town read her for. She seems lighthearted enough but I think some of the questions she asks are a bit pointless because the answers should've been obvious. They were to me, anyway. I'm waiting to hear back from Celeste regarding her scum reading me because there hasn't been any explanation yet and I dislike how this suddenly occurred once I became a talking point.

 

Talya - Probably should read her posts more before I can really decide, but the point I dislike was how her attention shifted to me after Cory made his points regarding my wolf meta in a game that wasn't even on this site. I know from experience that Talya is very capable of looking clean as a wolf, so I'll need to see some flips and other info to make a better judgement on her.

 

Lenlo - I liked Key's case on him. I think his backing for the Zeph vote is kinda garbage (the L-7 argument doesn't matter since it's hybrid hammer) and I dislike the way he's arguing semantics over clarifying his read on me - which seemingly came out of nowhere. Really don't like the 'info' angle he's applying to it either considering he's not evaluating Kivam in the same way. He's supposedly doing ISOs now, so we'll see what he comes up with but at this point I feel my vote is best served here.

 

Decent reads, but I disagree with ClovFG, Zeph, Hally, Kiv, and wish tree/Celeste

[WWWwombat]

 

#1952 is gross.

dude you need to link your stuff

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95247-advanced-the-usual-suspects-mafia-day-1/?p=3530279

[WWWwombat]

First thing im gonna say, I was wrong. I had thought AJ had talked with more people early on. Turns out? He did jack-all until Pg 34 and then continued to do jack-all until yesterday where he flooded us with WoTs. So alot of Jack-all of AJ imo.

 

 

Was planning on doing a big WOT catch-up style post, but after reading ~30 something pages and seeing that I had less than 20 posts I wanted to actually comment on, I'll forego that and just take a big consciousness dump ITT. Most topics have been touched on and repeated enough that I don't feel the need to add anything - so I'll try to bring some fresh points to the thread.

 

Shad's joke vote on Seph early on reminds me of how he started in the Belichick game, which is cool considering our synergy in that one. I had some more of his stuff quoted in the queue before I wiped them all that I liked as well. His comments towards Hallia/wish-tree are pretty villagery and carry that sort of uncanny poise he has for a newer player. Good vibes from him thus far.

 

Wish-Tree strikes me as a Hallia.2 in the first few pages of the game. Don't know what that means yet but it's the impression I got, so there you have it.

 

Hallia and Nyn are passing the eyeball test so far. Halli's coming out strong against Kiv and I think her reaction to his whining is good in the sense that she's an emotive player and I would expect her to react that way to that sort of thing. Nyn's sharpness came out once she got past her intro catch-up. She's picking up on the details I think she would as town regarding Kiv's Pral vote, and the responses to Celeste/wish-tree are the amusingly blunt type we all know and love.

 

Wombat's OP at a glance makes me think the randomizing wasn't so good to him, more gut than anything. Wanna see him get more involved once things picked up more beyond the catch up style posts.

 

Zander/Seph/Laine seem to doing that townie circle jerk thing they like to do - we'll see how that progresses. Zander is easy going but I'll be looking for when he starts to make cases after our last game together where he got by a lot on being 'Zander'. Don't really have an opinion regarding Laine picking up Mynd's torch, the stance itself is null but we'll see where she goes with it. Not much about Seph stuck out to me beyond him reiterating a lot that he really likes wish-tree/Celeste.

 

Kivish slot giving me some troubles atm. I basically hate Kivam's approach this game, first with me and then later with Pral and the subsequent backtracking, but Mish feels pretty genuine with how she's reacting to things ITT. Wouldn't really have thought Mish would be the redeeming quality for them (no offense) but if they weren't paired I would support a Kiv wagon at this point.

His first real game post. Some reads, fine.  I disagree with them myself.

 

Feels like I'm forgetting to mention something, whatever.

 

It's been a long day/night.

Aaaaand hes gone.

 

Good morning :)

 

Walking Oliver atm so I got a few.

 

Yates looking pretty good to me skimming these pages.

 

@Mish - remember earlier where you said something earlier about liking to set traps that no one sees and Shad said he could relate? Think about that in conjunction with his vote and statements regarding parked votes. May not have been his intent, but he could be seeing who is paying attention.

A token gesture, posting stuff that doesnt really mean anything imo and looking active.

 

Razen you seem alright.

 

I agree with you regarding Nyn/Sili and their content

 

Your point on Lenlo doesn't mean anything regarding his alignment imo

More token. Afew more of these and I can play whack-a-scum at the arcade.

 

[v]Wombat[/v]

 

Seems people are starting to echo my thoughts here.

 

Need to leave for work now, I'll try to peek at the thread throughout the day if I get the chance.

People are following your thoughts on Wombat? All you had to say on Wombat was "Wombat's OP at a glance makes me think the randomizing wasnt so good to him, more gut than anything. Wanna see him get more involved once things picked up more beyond the catch up style posts.". Wow, a gut read that you then voted for.

 

After this you had the occasional interaction with someone, but nothing gameplay wise. So really you sat around on your bum for 30 pages, made a token effort, then sat around for another 50. Great contributions. I dunno why I ever thought you had done alot. Musta mixed you up with someone.

 

After this we have all of his catchup WoTs, which I will reference rather than quote to keep this in one post. Cause spam is bad kids.

 

Pgs 1-20

This one is largely just "I like this, ill reply to this jokey post, This looks interesting". Nothing telling imo, cause the first 20 pages were pretty barren for good gameplay stuff in my opinion.

 

Interested by the vote spread that I can see without being caught up in full.

 

Can't say I'm surprised with the Kivish wagon, but the Zeph one does.

 

Speaking of which, I'll [unvote] for now since I'm still catching up.

Hes catching up and sees that his Wombat train wasnt pickin up anymore, so better hop off it. Still disagree with the Kivish thing, but thats a dead horse at this point. He does make sure we all know that he is unvoting though, bringing attention to it and justifying it when he could just unvote and get back to catching up.

 

Hi wish.

 

Don't think we've really had the chance to speak yet :)

 

I'm still reading up - who are you and your other head arguing over currently? Perhaps as I read I can find figure out why/when you each thought that person was worthy of voting.

Not all the dedicated to catching up if your also trying to talk with someone in real time at the front of the thread, are you? To his credit he does keep up the conversation, brings some stuff from earlier in the thread up and in general does a good job here imo.

 

We get more catchup WoTs, that I still think are a net negative for the thread. We dont need people constantly going back and posting WoT after WoT after WoT. Just make it succinct, please.

 

After reading all of them, which was agonizing btw, I found I disagree with a good bit of it. Reference his total reads list (post 1967, Pg 99). I found Razen to be making cases without much real backing and then using those to show "Hey I did something."

 

Yates, Nyce and CorKey are fine where they are.

 

I disagree that what Pral has posted has been content laden. Dude has 15 posts and barely anything real in them.

 

Laine is Alannalynn right? I dont like this nick name, its not consistent with the posting name. :( 

 

Still disagree on Kivam. I dont think he would make a good lynch today. I think later on he will be useful in catching stuff, his lawyerness showing, and the reasons people voting him arnt that strong.

 

Disagree with me, naturaly. You cant lynch Leno.

 

 

 

 

Tl;Dr for those who wont read. I was wrong on AJ, thought he did more early when infact he did jack all. Still wouldnt call him town, cause alot of it is silly or wrong imo, but I dont have a reason to see him lynched anymore. Gonna do Zander next and maybe seph?

 

Ill try and keep it under control though cause the last thing we need is a flood of crap.

 

wut?

[Razen]

I'm going through a Nolderf ISO now to see if I can glean anything from them

 

I started looking at Nolder, and I put that on pause because I was looking back at people's reasons for voting Lenlo.  But I will say the parts that I did read I wasn't impressed with from Nol.  I'll try and finish it up quickly.

[WWWwombat]

ClovFG

[WWWwombat]

FTR, I am ok with Lenlo being lazy and enigmatic, but his confused AJ with someone else thing is pretty bad, especially coming right after pressure had been mounting on him regarding his AJ comments.  It looks like he fabricated an opinion on AJ and instead of admitting to it is trying to say it was really an opinion on someone else (who shall remain unnamed).

[Shad_]

Meh, I have to take off for a while and won't be back until after deadline.  I'm not quite as informed as I would like to be, but here's where I stand.  A lot of people are saying Mish looked town.  I've never played with her before, but I thought she looked scummiest of the lot, and I'm going with how I feel here.  I expect Kivam to be able to change his game up from one to the next and the fact that he doesn't look the same as his last scum game does not make me automatically town read him.  Mish might have withdrawn, but the slot is the same.  [v]Kivam[/v]

[Andrej]

FTR, I am ok with Lenlo being lazy and enigmatic, but his confused AJ with someone else thing is pretty bad, especially coming right after pressure had been mounting on him regarding his AJ comments.  It looks like he fabricated an opinion on AJ and instead of admitting to it is trying to say it was really an opinion on someone else (who shall remain unnamed).

What do you think about the info lynch thing and only applying it to certain slots over others?

[WWWwombat]

 

Either alignment could do that. In this case it looks like trying to ease off someone who was a possible lynch candidate before, but is now not. I have seen you be very nonchalant "oops" as scum, firsthand, so right now it's hard for me to buy it.

I like to think im non-chalant regardless of the alignment.

 

Another question: If him being a possible lynch candidate was the only reason I pushed him, as scum, why not push/vote him? From a scum point of view I have to say AJ would scare me more than Zander. Lovem both, but AJ puts things together rather well. 

 

Sadly, there continues to be no defense against screwing up. The researchers are still investigating. 

 

 

Screwing up on one of the only significant things you'd said to that point?:(

[WWWwombat]

 

FTR, I am ok with Lenlo being lazy and enigmatic, but his confused AJ with someone else thing is pretty bad, especially coming right after pressure had been mounting on him regarding his AJ comments.  It looks like he fabricated an opinion on AJ and instead of admitting to it is trying to say it was really an opinion on someone else (who shall remain unnamed).

What do you think about the info lynch thing and only applying it to certain slots over others?

 

 

I don't mind info lynches if they are legit, but just saying that someone gives info because he/she interacted a lot is faulty.  Info lynches should always be applied to certain slots over others, but not in the way that you mean it.  They should be applied to slots where you have a concrete idea of exactly what info you are going to get (i.e. conditional associative reads), not just "oh this lynch gives generic infoz."

[Yates]

But what I'm seeing so far is it looked like Lenlo was initially called out for something he didn't actually do. "As I said previously" was not the first time he mentioned AJ.

The funny thing is, I caught on to Lenlo because I was going to defend him by making this point. It seemed like a semantic argument since he had mentioned AJ earlier IN THE SAME THREAD.

 

That's not what bothers me, though...

 

Another issue with him is that wtl AJ was too convenient, because AJ had recently been the subject of conversation.

This is the problem I have. And I wouldn't have even thought that was too big of a deal because, as BFG alluded to, it could have *possibly* been a screw up because AJ was fresh on his mind BECAUSE OF the recent conversation. BUT - and this is where it gets sketchy - I pressed him several times on who he claims to have actually meant. He just says "I forget but not rereading to tell you." Key basically restates my concern here in that you would EXPECT someone to remember one of TWO scum suspects. And if he had said Sili and meant Seph? Whatever. I've made mistakes like that. But I'm hard pressed to imagine a scenario where you confuse AJ with someone else in this game.

[WWWwombat]

 

Cool.

 

Town:

Razen

Hallia

Sili

Nyn

Bfg

Nol

AJ

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Not feeling the Kivam/Mish lynch atm. 

 

Jon, what the hell was this about?  I mean seriously, I appreciate the defense and all, but it would be more meaningful - and seem less like pocketing - if it was accompanied by something resembling content.  Definitely in my WTL pile for today

 

 

 

Meh.  Easy point to pick on Snow for.  Do not like.

[Lenlo]

I'm sorry I'm disappointing you Wombat :(

 

Believe me, I wish I hadn't made the mistake much more than you do.

 

In other news, would it kill a professor to be on time to something?

[WWWwombat]

Lenlo's semantics thing reads like trying to dismiss a substantive argument.  The point AJ made stands whether you call it "scum read" or "WTL" or "carrot."

[csarmi]

[V]Zander/Seph[/v]

[csarmi]

Not voting the other two trains.