[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[BFG]

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

I'm missing Laine too :( I can't say I think it's an alignment thing, she was pretty active as mafia in Belichick, but I can't clear her

 

That's sort of my tale on Dice as well

 

I don't get this on Darthe though. Does his absence concern you more than other players? If so why?

 

 

 

Leelou who do you want to vote?

 

Probably Dice or Shad. 

 

I have to leave in a few minutes to go save the unicorns. No, I'm not explaining further right now. I can later! <3

 

 

Eek, is there anything more than your reads list? I can't remember what you said on them from that

 

 

 

 

I know Hallia posted, but I can't quote it... what are your opinions on other players?

 

 

Short post since my daughter is waiting for me.

 

I'm fencesitting on most players but I'm most interested in the three voting me. I doubt they are all mafia though.

post is almost worthy of harbinger

 

 

Shad :) glad you're here...

 

What's your take on Darthe at the moment?

 

They haven't changed.  Darthe is Darthe.  He plays games with people and I take almost nothing he says at face value.  He brought up my Seph vote in a way that was accurate without being opportunistic, and I like that.  Scum!Darthe is totally capable of it, but relatively low involvement while still paying attention looks good I think.  I want to think he'd find a way to be more active as scum, but again, he is Darthe.  I will accept him until I have reasons not to and never let good feelings about his slot carry for too long.  I have no reasons not to accept him so far.

 

Sexy 

 

 

Catching up, I liked Laine's catch up posts and thoughts.  Aside from a couple of her nulls, and Dice being town, it's pretty in line with mine.

 

 

I'm going to Vote: Tina

Why?

 

double sexy

 

gut call, i wouldn't object to a Darthe or dice vote.

c-c-c-combo breaker, also a bit conflicted about the names drawn here.  Dice in particular hasn't done anything so I'd like to know more.

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

and here it is.  leads into both with wishy-washy language (wolves do that to mimic confusion) and then the reasons are both low effort, summarily Thane you seem to want to opt out of having a hand in the matters of the day here.  

 

All in all I'd rank this as wolf/10.

 

So after you guys follow me on Tina today we'll lynch Thane tomorrow.

 

I agree with Thane about Dice here. For the rest, how is this relevant to Thane?

[Thane Vakarian]

@BFG: If Darthe would be around more, it'd be easier to read him. Also, i appreciate him a lot as player. He has good insights (most of the time, when not fooling around too much). Should he be town, i'd like him more active. Maybe i put too much faith in him... 

[BFG]

 

 

 

Shad :) glad you're here...

 

What's your take on Darthe at the moment?

 

They haven't changed.  Darthe is Darthe.  He plays games with people and I take almost nothing he says at face value.  He brought up my Seph vote in a way that was accurate without being opportunistic, and I like that.  Scum!Darthe is totally capable of it, but relatively low involvement while still paying attention looks good I think.  I want to think he'd find a way to be more active as scum, but again, he is Darthe.  I will accept him until I have reasons not to and never let good feelings about his slot carry for too long.  I have no reasons not to accept him so far.

 

Ok, what was presumptive about your post? He doesn't seem to draw or guess your alignment from it?

 

I'm torn between prodding your slot and answering this question.

 

I initially asked Seph how he could say I'm "giving him a pass" when I'd been questioning him pretty heavily. Instead of giving him a chance to answer, I decided to come back with:

 

I'm guessing you don't like that I didn't vote you yet. I suspect that, had I voted you, you wouldn't like that either. Stupid games like this get what they ask for. [v]Seph[/v]

I'm putting lots of words in Seph's mouth here. Maybe he didn't like my "if you are town" comment. He never asked me why I hadn't voted; he asked Darthe that. And I'm assuming in this post that I know how he would have reacted to me voting him.  Maybe if I was thoroughly convinced he was scum I thought I did, but even then is it normal for me to make these kinds of assumptions?

 

I had expectations for how certain people would honestly interpret this post.  It was mainly meant for Seph, but I'll catch what I can in passing.

 

So, what do you make of my vote and the reactions to it?  You didn't bring it up until recently.

 

Lol, I missed that the vote question was specifically to Darthe (and I just ISO'd him )

 

I don't really understand the vote, it didn't seem to be because you thought him scummy. I'm assuming from later posts and your eventual unvote it was meant as a test?

 

Sooh's seemed ok, Tina's seemed a little off in that it was pure observer commentary, Kivams was off in as much as by pointing out that he didn't like their reaction to their votes on you he did exactly the same thing that he accused them of doing with Seph.

[BFG]

@BFG: If Darthe would be around more, it'd be easier to read him. Also, i appreciate him a lot as player. He has good insights (most of the time, when not fooling around too much). Should he be town, i'd like him more active. Maybe i put too much faith in him...

But why Darthe in particular? Lots of players are good in this game and being pretty quiet, so out of your 'need more info' list, why is he bottom?

[Thane Vakarian]

gut feeling on this, BFG. Those are quite hard to explain, but i have a feeling something's up with him.

 

it's true that i'm not so worried about the other players, but they haven't struck my spidey-senses like he did.

[BFG]

@Shad, I didn't mention it because on Thursday I wanted to look elsewhere (the situation around Sept already had a lot of thread attention) I fell asleep ridiculously early Friday and today's Saturday, first chance I've really had to process things in any sort of detail

[BFG]

gut feeling on this, BFG. Those are quite hard to explain, but i have a feeling something's up with him.

 

it's true that i'm not so worried about the other players, but they haven't struck my spidey-senses like he did.

I think you're town here, but can't lock that in yet :/ I wish you could explain these things better though!

 

Can you order your list? Who do you thinks scummy as opposed to null?

[Sooh]

*snip*

 

And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads".  Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

Laine and I believe Dice already pointed at this post where basically what I read is that he thinks mafia members don't make reads, they make fake reads, and that somehow we're supposed to know that off the cuff which is which. It's such a weird thing to post. 

 

[v] TinaHel [/v] my reason is an if then statement that I'm betting on floating a certain way

I have to third the question others have posed. What are you on about, Darthe?

 

OK, pretty much signing off for Shabbos - I may have another chance to show up before candle lighting, but I doubt it - so I'm going to [v]Shad[/v].  I really did not like the hemming and hawing before voting for Seph, and then voting Seph after he posted what I thought was a very convincing explanation.  This vote is likely locked in, given the deadline, so let's see what shakes free from it.

This is a turnaround from when he was pointing fingers at those who sussed Shad for his vote on Seph. Not sure how you got from here to there. When you catch up, can you clarify?

 

*snip*

 

As for reads so far..

Town pile: Dice, BFG, Thane, Hally

Mix: Sooh, Seph

Leaning scum: Shad, Tina

 

Null: Darthe, Kiv, Talya, Leelou

 

The town pile have done nothing to warrant not having them there as of yet. Sooh is in mix because I didn't like her adding to what was going on earlier but other than that she's been around and posting. Seph is there because I'm on the fence about his alignment. I can make points on him either way and so he's going to sit there. Shad's in my scum pile because that vote on Seph was out of character for him and it's really bothering me, though I need to look at his most recent posts which I largely ignored (they had a lot of words so I'll get back to them). Tina is my bottom read purely because of the opportunistic vote on Seph based on "TMI". It's really sticking out to me right now and her explanations later did nothing to make me feel better about it. 

 

@Kiv: did you unvote Tina because you liked her explanations or because you were satisfied that she'd come back into the thread? (though I know you wont get this until after the deadline...)

 

My null pile is there because I suck at reading those four either way. They may sit there for a while.

Can you explain what you mean here? Maybe I can clarify?

 

*snip*

 

I kinda like that Seph is trying to kickstart things. I think that's very positive for his alignment.

How do you think Seph is kickstarting stuff? How does that jive with his later partial explanation that the vote was a joke?

 

I think I already somewhat responded to this. He took a chance and voted someone. I believe he calls it a joke because it was more or less randomly placed, and he also called it a reaction test, just to see if anyone would jump on it for any reason. I say kickstarting, because that's basically everything we've talked about D1. May not all have been his contribution, but at least he got us talking

 

This happens a lot in games. People vote each other, and it's all fun and jokes until somebody reacts. I can see why his vote was both. 

 

 

 

I do like Shad's case on Tina. It seems fairly solid to me. It makes me feel better about Shad. 

 

Tina is one I have always had trouble reading. If I find her scummy she's usually not, and if I find her towny she's usually scum. I can't say I've gotten much from her this game though, apart from what I have read other people think and feel. Having no real read on her makes me nervous, but if at EOD she's the leading vote and we don't have a hammer I'll vote there. 

 

Hallia feels a lot better than she did last game. She's making reads and doing things. 

 

I feel like Darthe pings because he's holding back. He's being secretive. I'm also not used to seeing periods of time where he's not voting anyone. That is a bit strange to me. 

 

tl:dr

 

Willing to vote: Tina, Shad, Darthe, Kivam. 

[Thane Vakarian]

sometimes i wish i were better at wording my thoughts too, believe me on that.

 

i'll give it a go for the 'people to look into-list', top to bottom "least likely to most likely imo". FTR: this can change as the game progresses

 

 Kivam

 AlannaLynn

 TinaHel

 Hallia
 Dicetosser1

 Darthe
 

[Darthe]

Bare with me here for a moment.  Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting?  

 

Seph tends to not do that last part as town.  He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time.  So I'm letting him ride on that atm.

 

However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say.  You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else.  A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements.  A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion.  Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that.  However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking.  What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.  

[Sooh]

Just an FYI everyone. I'll be in London Aug 10th-14th, and my contributions may be limited during that time. 

[Darthe]

I said at the beginning of the game that Thane and Seph had a wolf between them.  Today I've had some time and was lucky enough that Thane was online so we've engaged one another.  In post 435 I spoke of people tacking on unnecessary things when they're wolves.  Read his posts below, Look at the bold, cover it with your hand and reread.

 

we'll see what happens when D2 starts, Darthe. I can promise you i'm no wolf. Your reaction here seems like i just put you at L-1, ... well, the tone i got off of it. Worried?

 

 

never thought i'd see Darthe hunting ghosts instead of wolves, heh.

 

btw: i'm totally not worried here. i type what i think seems right. I find this highly amusing actually. I had a busy day, DL is soon upon us, i doubt we'll reach majority on anybody, night will come and go, and then we'll see what has happened. That's what i think will happen.

 

 

@BFG: If Darthe would be around more, it'd be easier to read him. Also, i appreciate him a lot as player. He has good insights (most of the time, when not fooling around too much). Should he be town, i'd like him more active. Maybe i put too much faith in him... 

 

 

gut feeling on this, BFG. Those are quite hard to explain, but i have a feeling something's up with him.

 

it's true that i'm not so worried about the other players, but they haven't struck my spidey-senses like he did.

 

 

What links these posts?  Each of them is baiting me.  You could argue that the first sentence of the second quote is the bait (it's not though) or that his response to BFG wasn't (it was though, it's gut which incites a response).  But look what Thane has simultaneously done.  He argued that he was sus of me for not being around, I show up, he discredits or attacks my every post and now I've dropped like a rock to the bottom of his list.  If a townie thought I was a wolf they'd be challenging me and delving into my posts.  Thane does none of this, instead talking about me to others and tacking on these pushes in his posts.  That difference is crucial here.

[BFG]

Ok, I'm going to continue my reread but will stop quoting else I won't be done in time.

 

I'll try and come up with something more readable than my posts in the past couple of pages later on.

[Darthe]

 

*snip*

 

And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads".  Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

Laine and I believe Dice already pointed at this post where basically what I read is that he thinks mafia members don't make reads, they make fake reads, and that somehow we're supposed to know that off the cuff which is which. It's such a weird thing to post. 

 

[v] TinaHel [/v] my reason is an if then statement that I'm betting on floating a certain way

I have to third the question others have posed. What are you on about, Darthe?

 

OK, pretty much signing off for Shabbos - I may have another chance to show up before candle lighting, but I doubt it - so I'm going to [v]Shad[/v].  I really did not like the hemming and hawing before voting for Seph, and then voting Seph after he posted what I thought was a very convincing explanation.  This vote is likely locked in, given the deadline, so let's see what shakes free from it.

This is a turnaround from when he was pointing fingers at those who sussed Shad for his vote on Seph. Not sure how you got from here to there. When you catch up, can you clarify?

 

*snip*

 

As for reads so far..

Town pile: Dice, BFG, Thane, Hally

Mix: Sooh, Seph

Leaning scum: Shad, Tina

 

Null: Darthe, Kiv, Talya, Leelou

 

The town pile have done nothing to warrant not having them there as of yet. Sooh is in mix because I didn't like her adding to what was going on earlier but other than that she's been around and posting. Seph is there because I'm on the fence about his alignment. I can make points on him either way and so he's going to sit there. Shad's in my scum pile because that vote on Seph was out of character for him and it's really bothering me, though I need to look at his most recent posts which I largely ignored (they had a lot of words so I'll get back to them). Tina is my bottom read purely because of the opportunistic vote on Seph based on "TMI". It's really sticking out to me right now and her explanations later did nothing to make me feel better about it. 

 

@Kiv: did you unvote Tina because you liked her explanations or because you were satisfied that she'd come back into the thread? (though I know you wont get this until after the deadline...)

 

My null pile is there because I suck at reading those four either way. They may sit there for a while.

Can you explain what you mean here? Maybe I can clarify?

 

*snip*

 

I kinda like that Seph is trying to kickstart things. I think that's very positive for his alignment.

How do you think Seph is kickstarting stuff? How does that jive with his later partial explanation that the vote was a joke?

 

I think I already somewhat responded to this. He took a chance and voted someone. I believe he calls it a joke because it was more or less randomly placed, and he also called it a reaction test, just to see if anyone would jump on it for any reason. I say kickstarting, because that's basically everything we've talked about D1. May not all have been his contribution, but at least he got us talking

 

This happens a lot in games. People vote each other, and it's all fun and jokes until somebody reacts. I can see why his vote was both. 

 

 

 

I do like Shad's case on Tina. It seems fairly solid to me. It makes me feel better about Shad. 

 

Tina is one I have always had trouble reading. If I find her scummy she's usually not, and if I find her towny she's usually scum. I can't say I've gotten much from her this game though, apart from what I have read other people think and feel. Having no real read on her makes me nervous, but if at EOD she's the leading vote and we don't have a hammer I'll vote there. 

 

Hallia feels a lot better than she did last game. She's making reads and doing things. 

 

I feel like Darthe pings because he's holding back. He's being secretive. I'm also not used to seeing periods of time where he's not voting anyone. That is a bit strange to me. 

 

tl:dr

 

Willing to vote: Tina, Shad, Darthe, Kivam. 

 

Can't decide if I should be critical of this post, sus it and tear into you or disregard you entirely.  Sooh you've played too much with fantastic mentors to treat everything you read like it has layers, especially with Shad.

[Darthe]

Debating a Thane wagon.  Don't think enough people are here to get it through.  Def missing hybrid hammer atm.

[BFG]

I said at the beginning of the game that Thane and Seph had a wolf between them.  Today I've had some time and was lucky enough that Thane was online so we've engaged one another.  In post 435 I spoke of people tacking on unnecessary things when they're wolves.  Read his posts below, Look at the bold, cover it with your hand and reread.

 

 

we'll see what happens when D2 starts, Darthe. I can promise you i'm no wolf. Your reaction here seems like i just put you at L-1, ... well, the tone i got off of it. Worried?

 

 

never thought i'd see Darthe hunting ghosts instead of wolves, heh.

 

btw: i'm totally not worried here. i type what i think seems right. I find this highly amusing actually. I had a busy day, DL is soon upon us, i doubt we'll reach majority on anybody, night will come and go, and then we'll see what has happened. That's what i think will happen.

 

 

@BFG: If Darthe would be around more, it'd be easier to read him. Also, i appreciate him a lot as player. He has good insights (most of the time, when not fooling around too much). Should he be town, i'd like him more active. Maybe i put too much faith in him... 

 

 

gut feeling on this, BFG. Those are quite hard to explain, but i have a feeling something's up with him.

 

it's true that i'm not so worried about the other players, but they haven't struck my spidey-senses like he did.

 

 

What links these posts?  Each of them is baiting me.  You could argue that the first sentence of the second quote is the bait (it's not though) or that his response to BFG wasn't (it was though, it's gut which incites a response).  But look what Thane has simultaneously done.  He argued that he was sus of me for not being around, I show up, he discredits or attacks my every post and now I've dropped like a rock to the bottom of his list.  If a townie thought I was a wolf they'd be challenging me and delving into my posts.  Thane does none of this, instead talking about me to others and tacking on these pushes in his posts.  That difference is crucial here.

 

On an abstract level I agree with you, BUT this is Thane, not a random mafia player. When does Thane delve into peoples posts to try and push a read, especially on Day 1? I guess I'll check his recent games but I'm inclined to disagree here.

[Thane Vakarian]

*applauds*

 

you see right through me. Ofcourse i'm baiting you. I want to see how you react here. And i did get a reaction out of you, which is nice. I do crazy things at times, that much is true. I do still think you are wrong though.I know i'm town and i highly doubt Seph is a wolf this game. 

 

Now, answer me this: are you town this game?

[BFG]

Debating a Thane wagon.  Don't think enough people are here to get it through.  Def missing hybrid hammer atm.

Agree on the latter!

[Andrej]

50 minutes to Night.

[Leelou]

[v]shad[/v]

[BFG]

@Sooh, why is Shad in your WTL pile if you think he's looking better after his case on Tina?

[Andrej]

Vote Count 1.12

 

Kivam (1) - Seph

TinaHel (4) - Darthe, Shad, AlannaLynn, Hallia

Shad (3) - Kivam, TinaHel, Leelou

 

Not Voting (5) - Thane Vakarian, dicetosser1, BFG, Talya, Sooh

 

7 to lynch.

 

Night in roughly 42 minutes.

[BFG]

Darthe where do you get layers from Soohs post?

 

I feel like we're reading different things this game, and that worries me after last game with Clov

[Talya]

Darthe - if you really think that Thane is wolf, why are you voting Tina, can you please explain that

[BFG]

Bare with me here for a moment.  Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting?  

 

Seph tends to not do that last part as town.  He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time.  So I'm letting him ride on that atm.

 

However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say.  You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else.  A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements.  A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion.  Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that.  However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking.  What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.

So what changed from earlier in the game when you thought Seph was wolfy for the strange logic?