[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Talya]

Hey Thane, how are you today.

[Talya]

Thane, What do you think of Shad and Hally?

[Talya]

I'm with Laine on the Trap stuff. Can't do them, don't understand them half the time.

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm not overly troubled by Shad at this point. I wish there was more of Hallia to go on. I have difficulties reading her (hence why i shot her last game when she was town). Learned that a vig should holster N1 untill the pool of suspects is smaller... 

[Talya]

Who is in your WTL?

[Leelou]

[unvote]

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

Need something to work with here. 

[Thane Vakarian]

i can't shake the feeling i want to lynch Darthe. I haven't had the time to really read back and get some feels on other people. A bit lost at the moment, but i'll try to pull myself together.

[Talya]

 

Oh well!

 

Darthe - I can't see where you have posted why you voted Tina in your ISO

If then statement.  Was pretty clear.  Tina did something that if she had flipped wolf would have confirmed her teammates and I didn't have + feelings about the slot.  Made sense for me to go on, not sure why others did though.

 

 

Question for you - was this about Tina, Kivam and Seph?

[Talya]

i can't shake the feeling i want to lynch Darthe. I haven't had the time to really read back and get some feels on other people. A bit lost at the moment, but i'll try to pull myself together.

 

What are you town leans atp?

[Andrej]

Vote Count 2.5

Hallia (1) - Darthe
Shad (2) - Kivam, Hallia
dicetosser1 (1) - Leelou

Not Voting (7) - Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, Seph, dicetosser1, Shad, Talya, Sooh

6 to lynch.

Deadline: 9pm PST Tuesday, August 11

[Kivam]

Interview cancelled (guy had to get on a plane, we're rescheduling).  Commencing reread

[Talya]

Iso'd Hally

 

Doesn't like Thane's reads from the spammy chatter but her improves later

 

Town Reads Kivam, BFG, Leelou and feels better about Thane later

Wants more Laine and then likes her posts

Doesn't no about Seph - but gut says Town

Not liking Tina and shad

Votes Tina

 

Then today votes Shad.

 

There is progression in her reads. And she posted more than I thought she had.

 

Hally - Why shad and what about those you haven't mentioned, thoughts? Has any of you reads changed?

 

Not feeling confident about Hally, but better than before

 

Darthe - Why Hally?

[Talya]

Off for a while. Lowest person atp Sooh

 

[v]Sooh[/]

[Talya]

ebwop

 

[v]sooh[v/]

[Talya]

Oh bloody hell

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

Oh well!

 

Darthe - I can't see where you have posted why you voted Tina in your ISO

If then statement. Was pretty clear. Tina did something that if she had flipped wolf would have confirmed her teammates and I didn't have + feelings about the slot. Made sense for me to go on, not sure why others did though.

Question for you - was this about Tina, Kivam and Seph?

Smart, yes but not seph, Thane. Still fits but I may have been trying too hard to fit that together. Doesn't matter now.

 

Shad's wagon is odd and Kiv if I call Thane out and he adapts to it then he outs himself so I'd expect him to crank it up another notch tbh. This just isn't usually how he speaks.

[Kivam]

 

Just pulling this exchange, since Shad is spinning it a bit. There was nothing suspicious about Shad suggesting he townread me based on our interactions. What became scummy was when he later claimed that he saw it as some sort of reaction fishing, when it was self-evidently nothing of the sort. Seriously, what exactly would a scum response to that have even looked like?

Red: If I didn't view it as reaction fishing, how is my town lean remotely justified?

 

Blue: "Silly generalization" comes to mind again here.  I don't think there has to be a clear "scum response" to a situation for reactions to be useful.  At least this sort of question feels consistent for you though.

 

I'm getting the impression you're someone who looks for textbook tells without trying to build much of an understanding of how individual players think.  Your emo post as a matter of "proving your point" is null in that regard, but I want you to walk me through why your initial understanding of my read was acceptable but the reaction-fishing based read was not.  You say I'm spinning it without humoring a misunderstanding.  Why, and what were the other "major reasons" you voted me D1?

 

Red - as a "tone-read" and on the notion that scum wouldn't call that much attention to themselves early D1. I think both of those are insane approaches to mafia, but they're honestly held insane approaches, at least by many players.  Simply put you down as another one, pending a later reason to reevaluate.

 

Re the last paragraph - it's not so much about textbook tells as it is about assuming until proven otherwise that the people I'm playing with are actually good at the game.  If you're the type of guy who has emo meltdowns as a townie, I have to assume (again, until proven otherwise) that you can manage the same as scum.  If you're the type who asks open ended questions as a townie, I assume (until proven otherwise) you do the same as scum.  People who don't know how to manage their meta are probably not long for mafia anyway.

[Kivam]

 

 

 

Oh well!

 

Darthe - I can't see where you have posted why you voted Tina in your ISO

If then statement. Was pretty clear. Tina did something that if she had flipped wolf would have confirmed her teammates and I didn't have + feelings about the slot. Made sense for me to go on, not sure why others did though.

Question for you - was this about Tina, Kivam and Seph?

Smart, yes but not seph, Thane. Still fits but I may have been trying too hard to fit that together. Doesn't matter now.

 

Shad's wagon is odd and Kiv if I call Thane out and he adapts to it then he outs himself so I'd expect him to crank it up another notch tbh. This just isn't usually how he speaks.

 

 

Do. Not. Like.

 

This is essentially a damned if you do, damned if you don't setup you've established; if he changes it, you call out the change as scummy; if he doesn't (and he didn't), you call out the continued rhetorical pattern as scummy (which is what you did).  Not sure whether this is confirmation bias from you or scum pushing an innocent townie, but either way, it's not protown.  If you're a townie, take a step back and give it a fresh look

 

[Darthe]

I found it wolfy and him continuing it is thus not wolfy? Kiv that's illogical. Had he stopped I'd have wanted justification for the switch but he has already dismissed and dodged justifying continuation of the behavior that was initially suspect.

 

Tldr, no.

[Leelou]

Darthe - thoughts on Dice? 

[Kivam]

I found it wolfy and him continuing it is thus not wolfy? Kiv that's illogical. Had he stopped I'd have wanted justification for the switch but he has already dismissed and dodged justifying continuation of the behavior that was initially suspect.

 

Tldr, no.

 

My problem is with the logic that says that no matter what he did after he pointed it out, it would be wolfy.  Continuing was wolfy, not continuing would be wolfy.  What "justification" for the switch could he have offered other than "you're reading this as scumming, which I'm not, so I'm being more conscious about it to avoid being scumread and generating a mislynch" - which, of course, could then be interpreted as "you're reading this as scumming, which I am, so I'm being more conscious about it to avoid being scumread, and having my team go down a man".  I see no potential response from Thane that you wouldn't have been able to describe as wolfy.

 

As for my logic re continuing, it's simple: the "one sentence too far" rhetorical tic is either unconscious (in which case it could be unconscious scum pushing too hard or unconscious town being rhetorically obtuse) or conscious (in which case Thane is likely scum pushing too hard); the lack of correction indicates it's likely unconscious, which would take the range of possibilities down from 66% scum 33% Town (assigning equal weight to each) to 50/50 ... in other words, it's a mildly good sign.

 

Also, currently working on an ISO of Talya, mainly because I have absolutely no impression of her game at all thus far.

[Darthe]

Kiv it was already wolfy. He can't undue am impression already made and his choice of reaction to becoming aware of that impression has been lackluster. Could he satisfactorily explain the behavior my suspicion would cease, as makes sense, but adapting isn't inherently town behavior so I don't know what you're arguing.

[Darthe]

Darthe - thoughts on Dice?

I haven't had any, he is a wasted slot atm

[Leelou]

 

Darthe - thoughts on Dice?

I haven't had any, he is a wasted slot atm

 

 

I'm voting him. 

[Darthe]

Also standard odds are 75% town 25% wolf so 50/50 is a marked improvement.