[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[BFG]

I'm here for now but unless someone makes a good case on someone I will keep my vote on Shad.

Can you explain why you changed your read on Seph?

[BFG]

And what do you think of the votes on you?

[Andrej]

Thanks again Key.

 

Good morning all :)

 

Just under 4 hours to Night

[Niniel]

Well, of course I don't like being voted. I don't like any of those votes. I don't even know Darte's reason.

 

Seph sounded sincere and reminded me of someone in my last game (maybe Eldrik), who was town. I can't explain that very well.

[BFG]

What are your thoughts on players? Why are Leelou and Thane in your town list? Other than Shad who do you like the least?

[BFG]

I need to reread. Right now I have no idea which way I want to go with my vote.

You getting anywhere with this???

[BFG]

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, Shad, serious question - you think emo is a town tell?  To me, it usually signals scum flailing

 

I think that's a silly generalization and you have to look at the root of what's upsetting someone.  People are more transparent when you get them fired up, and Seph happened to enter that game with a real chip on his shoulder so it was easy to exploit it and extract his alignment.

 

BTW, I think it's complete BS that you would make a response to a basic question about game strategy into a personal attack.  "Silly generalization"?  Show a bit of respect

 

 

You are kidding, right?

 

Of course.  Like I said, emo is too easy to fake.  Just pick some imagined slight, blow it up into a personal attack, and start lashing out while complaining that people are against you. 

 

Which is why my personal preference is for Emo-play to be an autolynch.  Not only does it eliminate fake emo as a strategy, but it keeps the games fun.

 

/soapbox.

 

BTW, serious question - who hasn't checked in yet.  I know Tina hasn't.  Anyone else?

 

 

-_-

 

Obviously doesn't prove your point, but clever bait.  Shad has a town lean on somebody.  Yay.

 

So this exchange still sounds strange, but I'm not sure why.

 

Kivam doesn't like using emo as a town tell so fakes emo on nothing. It's obviously fake and Shad reads it as townie, because of the read potential? I sort of understand why Shad made his read, but it still stands out at this point.

 

I don't understand what Kivam was trying to achieve. BUT it was early in the game, so its possible its just to get conversation started?

[Sooh]

 

I need to reread. Right now I have no idea which way I want to go with my vote.

You getting anywhere with this???

 

Got distracted  boyfriend.

 

Going back to my reading now. 

[BFG]

Seph, is your Darthe vote based primarily on him sussing you and Thane?

 

Probably like this because he's paying attention? Mostly meh

 

I'm seeing a whole lot of grossness from [v]Seph[/v] here.

 

First, he posts a "soul read" of three townies:

 

 

 

 

 

I already got 3 townies, and it feels good!

Going to try this soulread thing I have seen, to see how mine has been developing.

 

Tayla, leelou, darthe

 

The thing that stands out here is that Darthe hadn't yet posted in the game.  That's why I asked Seph who he had mixed Darthe up with, a question he hasn't responded to.

 

Then we get this:

 

 

 

 

 

should Darthe wield the axe... would be good, he'd be town then

 

Thane and seph have a wolf between them I think

 

Darthe... I usually like your early reads, but going 0-2 on page 5 is not a good look, I think that job is affecting your brain!

 

 

Still seems to be aligning Darthe as a townie, along with Thane (who wasn't one of the names on his earlier list of town reads).

 

I call him out for TMI, and we immediately get a huge backstep into:

 

 

 

 

at the moment, i highly doubt that Darthe. Seph seems quite town, unless he's pulling somehting off from start D1 (which i doubt) and i have an awesome anti-wolf power up my sleave. So, if you're town as well, i'd like to throw you on the townpile and keep looking elsewhere

I'll town read Seph when I manage to piss him off and harvest massive emo town tell again.

 

Lol, well shad if you want to thunderdome on page 6, bring it :) it would be a much easier game, if I can get a town read on you. I have never seen you as scum before, and it worries me with how well you have been playing.

I feel like Shad's method for town reading me, is actually my method for town reading Dice lol.

 

Town list of awesomeness

Dice

Sooh

Thane

 

I suck at reading leelou, but her posts are fine. If she Is mafia, and darthe is town, I will the the cfd to him :)

Tayla I want to believe you are town! But if that is the case I think I need to give it another 15 games before I soulread again...

[v] darthe the soulread couldn't have been all wrong :(

 

 

Suddenly we have a completely different list of townreads (and I am trying not to spend all day posting this, so I need to go back and check, but I don't think Dice or Sooh posted much after the original "townread list" from Seph), Talya (one of his earlier town leans, and ditto re posts since that list) on the suspicious side, and Darthe goes from "assumed townie" to vote.

 

To quote Torg: What the what?

 

 

 

Seph, can you explain the multiple flip-flops in your reads?  Because there sure are a lot of them for a game with relatively few posts.

 

 

This still sort of stands out because Kivam missed Seph's early 'reads' and I'm not sure how that 'happens' HOWEVER we're still early game and reading that post of Depths it does look like Sept is contradicting himself. Still ok at this point.

 

 

You misunderstood me. The soul read was of the scum team kiv.

If you notice, the town reads I gave you, are the ones I posted about itt.

There have actually been 0 flip flops, what do I look like LeBron james??

 

Wait. What?

 

 

Why is the fact that it was of the mafia team concern you? Would it have been better if it had been of 3 random town who hadn't posted?

 

Just because I'm scum 9 times out of 10 does not mean that my soul is scummy. Especially this game. This is MY town game.

 

<3

 

 

 

You misunderstood me. The soul read was of the scum team kiv.

If you notice, the town reads I gave you, are the ones I posted about itt.

There have actually been 0 flip flops, what do I look like LeBron james??

 

Mwah?  The post you opened with "yay, I got three townies" was a list of potential scum (including one non-poster)?  Yeah, definitely didn't read that post that way

 

 

Actually, if you go back and check, none of us had posted by that point.

 

 

Again if he'd said 3 town hadn't posted would it have been better?

 

 

 

 

You misunderstood me. The soul read was of the scum team kiv.

If you notice, the town reads I gave you, are the ones I posted about itt.

There have actually been 0 flip flops, what do I look like LeBron james??

 

Mwah?  The post you opened with "yay, I got three townies" was a list of potential scum (including one non-poster)?  Yeah, definitely didn't read that post that way

 

 

Actually, if you go back and check, none of us had posted by that point.

 

Seriously?  LOL. Do I need to revise my assessment of Seph in this game to derpTown? I may

 

 

 

So Kivam is actually the FIRST person to start removing pressure of Seph, later on he calls out Sooh and Tina? for this

 

I kinda like that Seph is trying to kickstart things. I think that's very positive for his alignment.

How do you think Seph is kickstarting stuff? How does that jive with his later partial explanation that the vote was a joke?

[BFG]

This reminds me of the blunder I made in a game in the BT. My second one back, and everyone went on and on about it.

 

I agree with Leelou, I don't see how it helps.

 

Hey Leelou! <3

Ugh I may have had Tina and Talia mixed up in the above MQ (sorry!)

[Niniel]

Short post since my daughter is waiting for me.

 

I'm fencesitting on most players but I'm most interested in the three voting me. I doubt they are all mafia though.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, Shad, serious question - you think emo is a town tell?  To me, it usually signals scum flailing

 

I think that's a silly generalization and you have to look at the root of what's upsetting someone.  People are more transparent when you get them fired up, and Seph happened to enter that game with a real chip on his shoulder so it was easy to exploit it and extract his alignment.

 

BTW, I think it's complete BS that you would make a response to a basic question about game strategy into a personal attack.  "Silly generalization"?  Show a bit of respect

 

 

You are kidding, right?

 

Of course.  Like I said, emo is too easy to fake.  Just pick some imagined slight, blow it up into a personal attack, and start lashing out while complaining that people are against you. 

 

Which is why my personal preference is for Emo-play to be an autolynch.  Not only does it eliminate fake emo as a strategy, but it keeps the games fun.

 

/soapbox.

 

BTW, serious question - who hasn't checked in yet.  I know Tina hasn't.  Anyone else?

 

 

-_-

 

Obviously doesn't prove your point, but clever bait.  Shad has a town lean on somebody.  Yay.

 

So this exchange still sounds strange, but I'm not sure why.

 

Kivam doesn't like using emo as a town tell so fakes emo on nothing. It's obviously fake and Shad reads it as townie, because of the read potential? I sort of understand why Shad made his read, but it still stands out at this point.

 

I don't understand what Kivam was trying to achieve. BUT it was early in the game, so its possible its just to get conversation started?

 

 

I had no idea if Kivam was honestly interpreting my "silly generalization" as a scum push or if he was scum trying to make a stupid push on me.  Both are really derpy plays.  When he came back that he was making an example of "fake emo" I placed my palm firmly in the middle of my face and opted to read the play as a soft test to see how I would react.  He might have just been making an example of how to effectively "fake" emo, but considering I didn't bite in my response, his reply to me didn't make much sense from that angle.  Testing people to gauge their reactions as a fairly town play. 

[BFG]

More Shad reaction...

 

 

 

 

I will state this for you all.

I voted darthe because I think k tayla, and leelou could be town.

I didn't want my soulread to be 0%

 

It was not a serious vote. Shad, why did you think it was serious?

He had two posts in the game, I would have the same %chance to vote anyone else in the game.

 

In Star Wars I suggested that your page 4 vote was a joke and you responded that it was totally serious.  I didn't much care for your reason there either, but you stood by it.  You're backing away from this one, and that's fine, but did you really at no point take it seriously?  If so, why did you make it?  It wasn't a "joke" vote in the traditional sense.

 

 

 

I told you, I wanted to see how darthe would react.

I did not vote him because I believed he was scum off of his two posts. I voted him as a joke, to see how darthe responded. I get better reads by interacting with people, and reading there tone.

 

I'm not backing away, by anyeans. I'm telling you it was never meant as a serious vote. I never thought darthe was scum at any point in time, and I was hoping his reaction would help me get a read on him, especially if he won't be as active.

 

 

 

Leelou, I was voting darthe to get a reaction out of him, plain and simple.

 

0% the soul read was simply for fun, ad i figured by placing a vote, referencing it people wouod realize it as a joke. Which most did mind you.

It's page 7...point me to somone who is actively scum hunting with only half the game checked in leelou.

The reactions I got towards the post however, will help towards hunting.

 

Red is reasonable.  Green really isn't when you are someone who I know makes serious votes early in a game without much to back them.  If you're town, try to keep in mind that it's ok to look derpy sometimes even if you really aren't.  This reads to me like you're digging for an out rather than explaining your thought process.

 

First bolder sentence reads awkwardly, the second is better.

 

 

 

Leelou, I was voting darthe to get a reaction out of him, plain and simple.

 

0% the soul read was simply for fun, ad i figured by placing a vote, referencing it people wouod realize it as a joke. Which most did mind you.

It's page 7...point me to somone who is actively scum hunting with only half the game checked in leelou.

The reactions I got towards the post however, will help towards hunting.

 

 

I told you, I wanted to see how darthe would react.

I did not vote him because I believed he was scum off of his two posts. I voted him as a joke, to see how darthe responded. I get better reads by interacting with people, and reading there tone.

 

I'm not backing away, by anyeans. I'm telling you it was never meant as a serious vote. I never thought darthe was scum at any point in time, and I was hoping his reaction would help me get a read on him, especially if he won't be as active.

 

In the second post you're calling it a joke when I think what you mean is a test.  It wasn't serious, but it wasn't for lulz.  It was to gauge a reaction.  But in the first post you argue that you thought the joke/test would be obvious, which kind of defeats the purpose.

 

 

 

Seph, why town on Sooh and dice?

I like Talya coming back to this while Sept is around to answer

 

 

I really liked the interaction between the two of them.

Sooh is probably my stongest town read, her tone is great, she isn't posting cautiously. She is all around towny in my eyes!

 

 

 

I really liked the interaction between the two of them.

Sooh is probably my stongest town read, her tone is great, she isn't posting cautiously. She is all around towny in my eyes!

 

I'm kind of agreeing with you on this one.  Tone is strikingly different from Alien and SW.  Sooh, are we team mates for once?

 

 

 

Liking Talya here

 

In general Shad's seeing the same things as me (but earlier ) which is probably good?

[BFG]

Shad :) glad you're here...

 

What's your take on Darthe at the moment?

[BFG]

Bleh, I don't like that Thane is basing town reads off of spammy chatter at the beginning of game, it's free passes that are not warranted.

Why do you mention Thane here and make no mention of Seph?

[Shad_]

Answers to Shad:

 

1. I definitely thought it was worth pointing out that you choose to vote Seph first when he had already two votes (although you went after him a lot before) and was asked to do so by Seph. Me pointing this out means that it´s worth pointing out and even though you think I didn´t give my own comments on it, it was something negative that you did. I think you understand that without me saying it´s bad. Why would I point it out otherwise? 

 

2. The preassure on you was definitely because you waited with your vote until you saw someone else had voted before (my reason) + someone else posted that it was strange of you to vote after Seph told you to. That is kind of a meta reason and I don´t know your meta.

 

3. I have a really bad memory so if I say that there is something that I didn´t remember, it´s true.

 

4. Why was I not allowed to question Kivam about what he meant? I didn´t understand it, so I wanted to know. 

 

 

I hope this is not an omgus vote from me but:

 

[v] Shad [/v]

 

 

As said before, I didn´t like your vote of Seph. Your list was kind of good but I don´t like your "case" on me. 

 

 

About Laine:

 

I like that you are questioning Kivam but the rest of the catch up posts are not what I´m used to from you. A lot of it feels like filler. 

 

You recognize that I questioned Seph heavily before voting him.  You voted him before I did, on the grounds that his treating Thane as cleared town was TMI.  You are assuming that I intentionally waited to vote him until someone else had.  What in particular makes you certain that Seph's responses to my questions did not impact my vote?  What are your thoughts on the stated reason I gave for voting him?  And what in particular bothers you about my case on you?

[Sooh]

Shad somewhat pings me to start off with here. His responses are far more guarded and cautious than I'm used to from him. This isn't just based on the Seph vote, but his reactions to Kivam too in the discussion they have from #98 and onwards. 

 

I would peg #106 from Seph more a snipe at Darthe than anything to really take too seriously, but #107 from Kivam seems to be taking this extremely seriously. I know Kivam has discussed semantics with several players, so for now I'm just going to assume he's doing it to get reactions, and not that it's scum trying to jump on every little thing they see that could throw suspicion on someone else. I could read it both ways. Going to give him the benefit of the doubt for today, especially since he's not here to defend himself at EOD. I most definitely would like to look into him for tomorrow though. Too many things just look like scum trying to misrep to get an easy lynch. Hopefully I'll be able to find one more suspect before EOD so I don't have to place my vote here. (yes, I know. It's contradictory.)

 

People also spend a whole lot of time discussing Seph's joke/reaction vote on Darthe. To me the two aren't mutually exclusive. It can be a joke vote on a person, but you may also hope that that person will react to you in a certain way and help that to inform your read. I guess I just don't see Seph as scummy in this case. 

 

Read and commented up to page 10. I'm going to the store to buy junkfood and then I'll be back to tackle the rest of the thread. 

[Shad_]

My basic problem here Tina is it feels like you are approaching the situation having pre-determined that I am scum rather than trying to get a read on me.

[Hallia]

Catching up, I liked Laine's catch up posts and thoughts.  Aside from a couple of her nulls, and Dice being town, it's pretty in line with mine.

 

 

I'm going to Vote: Tina

[BFG]

Short post since my daughter is waiting for me.

 

I'm fencesitting on most players but I'm most interested in the three voting me. I doubt they are all mafia though.

That's not massively helpful :(

 

Who do you think's most likely town?

[Shad_]

Shad :) glad you're here...

 

What's your take on Darthe at the moment?

 

They haven't changed.  Darthe is Darthe.  He plays games with people and I take almost nothing he says at face value.  He brought up my Seph vote in a way that was accurate without being opportunistic, and I like that.  Scum!Darthe is totally capable of it, but relatively low involvement while still paying attention looks good I think.  I want to think he'd find a way to be more active as scum, but again, he is Darthe.  I will accept him until I have reasons not to and never let good feelings about his slot carry for too long.  I have no reasons not to accept him so far.

[BFG]

Tina what do you mean by TMI?

 

Darthe's posts noted as I don't recall his response to Sephs explanations off the top of my head

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

should Darthe wield the axe... would be good, he'd be town then

Thane and seph have a wolf between them I think

 

Darthe... I usually like your early reads, but going 0-2 on page 5 is not a good look, I think that job is affecting your brain!

 

Strange post. Not necessarily wolfy bit the phrasing is just odd

 

 

 

 

 

 

You misunderstood me. The soul read was of the scum team kiv.

If you notice, the town reads I gave you, are the ones I posted about itt.

There have actually been 0 flip flops, what do I look like LeBron james??

Wait. What?

 

Yuo

Yup, apparently I need to be more clear, because I see how it was read the other way. I thought soulread were always of the scum team??

Leelou don't be too upset, it's only page 6, and I doubt I was even close.

I was hoping to get a reaction out of darthe with all this, but kiv is just as good :)

 

Kivam hit everything I wanted to, some better phrased than I would have, so I'll respond to this instead which is at the bottom of the page. This is backwards. Hoping to get a reaction from me and soul reading me are two mutually exclusive actions and require different processes. Tone reads as forced and defensive, logic is cripplingly off and the subject matter doesn't fit the things.

 

Did I get em?

 

 

 

 

I kinda like that Seph is trying to kickstart things. I think that's very positive for his alignment.

Posts like this are basically word vomit.

 

 

 

<snip>

 

 

 

 

 

 

should Darthe wield the axe... would be good, he'd be town then

Thane and seph have a wolf between them I think

 

Darthe... I usually like your early reads, but going 0-2 on page 5 is not a good look, I think that job is affecting your brain!

 

Why are you so sure he went 0-2? And even if you are a townie who is that sure of your 5-page read of Thane, why are you defaulting to "Darthe is a townie making bad reads" instead of "Darthe may be scum setting up a false choice"?

 

 

Good thing to point out. I know that a lot of other stuff has been cleared out after this but it´s still possible that this is a TMI post.

 

 

 

[v] Seph [/v]

 

 

And hi Shad! I don´t think I have played with you before. I fear I will mix you and Seph in my head.

 

[Andrej]

Vote Count 1.11

 

Kivam (1) - Seph

TinaHel (4) - Darthe, Shad, AlannaLynn, Hallia

Shad (2) - Kivam, TinaHel

 

Not Voting: Thane Vakarian, dicetosser1, BFG, Talya, Sooh, Leelou

 

7 to lynch.

 

2.3 hours to deadline.

[BFG]

Catching up, I liked Laine's catch up posts and thoughts.  Aside from a couple of her nulls, and Dice being town, it's pretty in line with mine.

 

 

I'm going to Vote: Tina

Why?

[Leelou]

 

 

You misunderstood me. The soul read was of the scum team kiv.

If you notice, the town reads I gave you, are the ones I posted about itt.

There have actually been 0 flip flops, what do I look like LeBron james??

 

Wait. What?

 

 

Why is the fact that it was of the mafia team concern you? Would it have been better if it had been of 3 random town who hadn't posted?

 

Just because I'm scum 9 times out of 10 does not mean that my soul is scummy. Especially this game. This is MY town game.

 

<3

 

 

 

You misunderstood me. The soul read was of the scum team kiv.

If you notice, the town reads I gave you, are the ones I posted about itt.

There have actually been 0 flip flops, what do I look like LeBron james??

 

Mwah?  The post you opened with "yay, I got three townies" was a list of potential scum (including one non-poster)?  Yeah, definitely didn't read that post that way

 

 

Actually, if you go back and check, none of us had posted by that point.

 

 

Again if he'd said 3 town hadn't posted would it have been better?

 

No, because then you get into the realm of TMI.