[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Kivam]

OK, pretty much signing off for Shabbos - I may have another chance to show up before candle lighting, but I doubt it - so I'm going to [v]Shad[/v].  I really did not like the hemming and hawing before voting for Seph, and then voting Seph after he posted what I thought was a very convincing explanation.  This vote is likely locked in, given the deadline, so let's see what shakes free from it.

[Kivam]

EPWODP to add - plus a flip by Shad (in either direction) would give me something to use to resolve that "not enough info yet" gordian knot I posted about in my reply to Darthe.

[keyholder21]

Vote Count 1.8

Seph (1) - Shad
Kivam (1) - Seph
TinaHel (1) - Darthe
Shad (1) - Kivam

Not Voting (9): Hallia,Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, dicetosser1, BFG, Talya, Sooh, Leelou, TinaHel


Deadline: Saturday, August 8, 12pm PST


 

[dicetosser1]

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

 

All due respect, Seph, this is silly.  Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

 

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.

darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!

I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.

[unvote]

[v] kiv[/v]

 

And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads".  Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

 

I disagree. 1) townies dont know who the scum are. some people   and this relates to your confirmed townies call list thing   want people to give their reads so they can hold them to those and use it as a baseline to watch how they develop/change etc. therefore scum need to give reads to appear like everyone else. 2) Scum still have to make reads. how else do they pick out the cop/doc/whateva before a claim? 3) if you make no reads in thread  or you fencesit on reads all the time  you get lynched. therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched.

 

the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg

 

re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for

 

 

what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

 

I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.

 

Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

 

as above  yes  gives a baseline to look at people on. If i list BFG as town then suddenly start voring her for no apparent reason i get questions to answer as to why. this allows people to get a bead on me.

 

Vote Count 1.6

 

Seph (2) - TinaHel, Shad

TinaHel (1) - Kivam

Kivam (1) - Seph

 

Not Voting (9): Hallia, Darthe, Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, dicetosser1, BFG, Talya, Sooh, Leelou

 

Deadline: Saturday, August 8, 12pm PST

 

 

 

 

Thanks KEY!!  i love these particular ones      even if it does have politicianville instead of sydney....

 

I thought that is what a soul read was? calling out the mafia team...

 

[dicetosser1]

forgot the last quote there

 

seph  it seems to me that what you are talking about is a kinda blind gut read.  you look at the list, say the names maybe, and see if you feel something.  that or ure just guessing blindly to see how close you come.

 

 

Soul read to me seems like a more informed gut read. it takes meta into account. it takes posting style and what is actually posted into account.

[Talya]

To be honest I think people are putting way too much into this, but feel free to point back and laugh at me when this is what solves the game.

 

Not sure what this is about, can you please explain?

 

  

 

 

 

 

I thought that is what a soul read was? calling out the mafia team...

 

 

How can you call out people that weren't here yet?

I thought that is how it worked?

you could be town tayla. but for now that is were I have you

 

HOW is that SOUL READING? Just picking people that hadn't posted yet? THAT is WHAT we are trying to understand.

apparently I never understood it then. I was picking people off of the list, that is how I did it ><  

I was trying to have some fun, and it backfired...

  

 

I took it to read knowing someone so well that you could "soul read" them wolf or town. Looks like I'm slow in responding here others have.

 

I have you and tayla on my list, right where I want you.

That's fine, but you had said you thought me town and now you don't with no comment or thought on how you got there. I went from soul read Mafia to town to not town, with no continuity, that's what I don't get. Think I'm not town, fine, but give reasons why.

 

Have a good weekend Kiv.

[Sooh]

 

To be honest I think people are putting way too much into this, but feel free to point back and laugh at me when this is what solves the game.

Not sure what this is about, can you please explain?

 

*snip*

 

What had just been talked about in the thread. The whole "soul read" discussion. I'm not sure it's going to lead anywhere. 

[Talya]

Ah ok, maybe not, but it's good to get it out the way now rather than later. It also lead me to inconsistencies that I feel in Sephs reads

[seph]

 

 

 

 

 

I thought that is what a soul read was? calling out the mafia team...

 

 

How can you call out people that weren't here yet?

I thought that is how it worked?

you could be town tayla. but for now that is were I have you

 

HOW is that SOUL READING? Just picking people that hadn't posted yet? THAT is WHAT we are trying to understand.

apparently I never understood it then. I was picking people off of the list, that is how I did it ><  

I was trying to have some fun, and it backfired...

 

Right, but you seem to be sticking to it, yet you keep going back and forth as to if we are scum or town.

I have never called you or tayla scum ftr. Your listed as not town. I'm not using null, because null is a weak term, used to avoid someone

[Sooh]

I feel like Seph as scum is a whole lot more cautious than he has been in this game. It's a weak meta, I know, but as a villager he doesn't have to concern himself with being consistent. He feels open and free to me, and not at all guarding his words. 

[Hallia]

@Kiv - I see the benefit in posting both, and think it's pretty important

[Sooh]

@Kiv - I see the benefit in posting both, and think it's pretty important

Both what? I don't know what this is in reference to. 

[Leelou]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought that is what a soul read was? calling out the mafia team...

 

How can you call out people that weren't here yet?

I thought that is how it worked?

you could be town tayla. but for now that is were I have you

HOW is that SOUL READING? Just picking people that hadn't posted yet? THAT is WHAT we are trying to understand.

apparently I never understood it then. I was picking people off of the list, that is how I did it ><

I was trying to have some fun, and it backfired...

Right, but you seem to be sticking to it, yet you keep going back and forth as to if we are scum or town.

I have never called you or tayla scum ftr. Your listed as not town. I'm not using null, because null is a weak term, used to avoid someone

Srsly? Your whole "soul read" was apparently the scum team...so do you see where I'm getting confused here?

[seph]

Yea take the post where I call you scum before you post serious...

I am not going to respond to anything referring to that post again.

[Shad_]

Ok, so in British Monarchy Seph pretty much guns for mislynches the whole way through and maintains his pushes long past the point of reason.  JS push begins with a JS/Pral scum mate theory but manages to persist long after he backs off of Pral.  D2 he still wants to lynch JS for pushing "derptown" Eldrick, but yet also wants to lynch Eldrick for no obvious reason beyond Eldrick having a train.  It seems like a very pre-planned "I'm going to buddy these people, lynch these people, make a last minute excuse to vote any other town that develops a train."

 

The only similarity I'm seeing in this game is that he makes strong town reads of a few players really early on.  Since then he seems like he's trying to figure out who is town rather than figure out who he can lynch today.  Early pressure could have thrown him off in this game I suppose, and he's handling pressure differently in this game than what I saw in SW.  But I can't help but think based on BM (where Seph was killed by rng, not actually lynched) that scum!Seph hops on the opportunity to press a case on me after a few people sussed my vote.  I had a prediction for how town!Seph would react to the vote, and I didn't see that, but I am definitely not seeing how I think scum!Seph would have reacted based on BM.  My vote served its purpose and I don't want to lynch him today.  [unvote]

[Shad_]

Regarding Hallia and Dice's recent scum rolls, I don't want to get into player interactions in an on-going game, but I can say that Hallia's post count was pretty low, especially D1, and here she's managed a grand 7 so far.  I wouldn't take that to be alignment indicative based on Alien, but in the more recent Belichick she was super active and town told hard.  She took a hero vig to the knee N1, but she wasn't getting lynched on my watch.  I want that to be the new easy read town Hallia and it hasn't shown up to play yet in this game.  I may never understand Dice.  Circumstances cleared him in the two games we played together (cop view and obvious mislynch target by an outed scum), and I didn't trust him in either until then.  Nothing in an out-of-context ISO leaps out as obvious scum to me in HP.  And I don't trust him now.  It's business as usual.  Not trusting Dice is null for me.  :\

[Shad_]

@Shad how much do I need to be worrying right now?

 

If you are scum, fear is advisable.

[Shad_]

 

Just quickly;

 

@Kivam - I read Tommy's basic game (I am well aware how long ago it was ) during it you spent a lot of your non-recap posts debating game mechanics in as much as good and bad ways to play. Basically you were interacting but not doing anything, if that makes sense? You were pushing an INFO lynch over a low poster lynch. This game you're accepting of different play styles and seemingly working with/round them. Against that (for example) that post of Sephs where you isolate a word from the phrase or where you quote Tina's vote bit ignore her post beforehand that 'explains' it.

 

Essentially your play 'style' seems more townie, but I'm wary because I'm not sure if you're genuinely interpreting the posts the way you say, or if you're trying to twist the way you present the information.

 

In Tommy's game, the mechanics were very much an issue. In this game, we know what we're dealing with (and we can assume that we're looking at 3 of the following 4 town roles: Vig, IC, Cop, Tracker; it would take a very ballsy scum team to deliberately include a JK role that could block their kills).

 

In terms of the "info" question, look at my play today again and think it through.  I always want to develop information on D1 that I can use for later analysis.  That's been my play all day today, from the Seph push and trap to the Tina/Hallia pressure (had Hallia not posted content before I unvoted Tina, I would have moved my vote to her; getting them into the thread was the goal of identifying them as my favorite lynch targets).

 

In terms of twisting ... that's just not something I do when I'm scum, and something I do rarely when I'm town.  Leelou or Talya (who've both played with me a lot, as town or scum), can tell you that.  It's too easy to cast suspicion based on taking what people say at face value and then identifying the angles (pretty much anything anyone says in the game can have a town or scum motivation, even if it's only "trying to seem townie") to risk deliberately misinterpreting a townie's post when I'm scum.  And obviously, when I'm town, deliberately misinterpreting posts isn't a useful play unless it's as a trap, and that hasn't been my play thus far in this game.  So if I'm misinterpreting anything at all, it's straight up misinterpreting, rather than deliberate twisting.

 

 

Does not compute.

[alannalynn]

 

@Shad how much do I need to be worrying right now?

 

If you are scum, fear is advisable.

+10000000

 

Okay I'm going to start my read

[Shad_]

Kiv, explain to me how you "trapped" Seph in a way that did not at any point intentionally misinterpret what he had to say.

[Shad_]

Tina:

#157 agrees that Seph's "0-2" post regarding his and Thane's alignment could be TMI.

~~Reasonable and still a point worth revisiting depending on how things progress.

#160 votes Seph

#183 in response to Sooh not liking Tina's or my vote, says "I did notice that Shad didn´t vote Seph until there were already two votes (and basically being told so by Seph)."

~~I would have been happier if she explained what bothered her personally about it instead of just stating the sequence, especially considering she's responding to a post where Sooh susses her.

#256 in response to Kivam voting her, "agrees with Sooh" about Kiv "poking everywhere", points out that she's always a low count poster, defends that she has contributed by noting that she's one of the few people who have voted so far, questions how Kiv can "always" target her D1 when she only remembers playing one game with him.

~~It kind of pings me that she's bringing up Sooh again in pretty much the same manner--pointing out that she noticed the same thing without commenting on how she feels about the observation. Characterizing her vote on Seph as a significant contribution seems a bit exaggerated.

#257 likes BFG for asking a lot of questions, wants her to comment more on the replies

#258
 

I just want to understand what Kivam is talking about when saying I (and Sooh? Don´t remember who it was.) was stopping a potential Seph wagon. Did you want it to be a Seph wagon? You unvoted Seph after that, which I take that you don´t think he is mafia. So you wanted a wagon to see who would vote him to catch mafia? Would people voting him be more likely mafia? I didn´t see many people wanting to vote Seph before that either. Actually, there were a lot of people defending him.

~~Asking Kivam about his wagon issue is reasonable enough. I absolutely don't get how she suddenly forgets Sooh in this context. It feels fake to me. Maybe a bad attempt to make some earlier buddying feel more natural? I don't know. Sooh is pretty strong town to me in this game and I'm not interested in humoring w/w here.

#287 defends that she gave a reason before voting Seph, defends her low post count, comments on how many games she's played with Kivam.

~~The reiterations here are because Kivam asks again, so that's fair enough. Then:

 

 

 

I just want to understand what Kivam is talking about when saying I (and Sooh? Don´t remember who it was.) was stopping a potential Seph wagon. Did you want it to be a Seph wagon? You unvoted Seph after that, which I take that you don´t think he is mafia. So you wanted a wagon to see who would vote him to catch mafia? Would people voting him be more likely mafia? I didn´t see many people wanting to vote Seph before that either. Actually, there were a lot of people defending him.

Yes, I wanted a Seph wagon, both before and after I thought he was scummy. The vote on him was real, based on inconsistencies in his posts ... at least, given how I and others were reading them. But his explanation for the discrepancies was a good one, and I believed it - at least enough to make me unvote. But precisely because I thought his explanations were good, I waited to actually unvote to see whether any other players would pile onto him despite his answers - since that, to me, would be a sign of potential scum. That's why I'd say people voting him once he had some momentum would have been more likely to be mafia; he already had a 3 vote train that had built before his explanations, so adding fuel to the fire would have been an easy scum play (and less easily understood as town play given his explanation).

Could you link me to the "a lot of people defending him"?

 

I don´t get the first sentence. You wanted a Seph wagon before you thought he was scummy? Did you mean town? Because you think he is town now, right?

I will have to go back and see who defended him. I know there were people saying that this is normal Seph play etc.

 

 

~~I can see not liking Kivam's play here or thinking his explanation is a lie. But I don't really see where it's confusing. Is she honestly failing to understand what he's trying to say or is she not interested in understanding it?

#289 Says Sooh and Talya were the only people defending Seph.

~~I remember Dice defending him pretty hard.

#293
 

 

 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

All due respect, Seph, this is silly. Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.
darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!
I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.
[unvote]
[v] kiv[/v]

 

And this is also silly. (Not the vote, but the thought process). Mafia members don't make or post "reads". Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum). But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

TO the first part, the reason he was getting pressure, wasn't because he voted me. its because he didn't vote me until I asked him why he did not.


2nd part. your right they do know alignments, but I do not. I have no way of currently knowing if darthe is mafia or town.
So to me they are reads, and I will agree, or disagree if I want to. ITS NOT SILLY, it is me playing the game. I have no way of knowing if they are fake until a flip, or end game.

I really disagree with about everything you are saying lately.

 

I like this post. It´s correct that Shad was getting preassure because he didn´t vote you until after my vote, and after you asked him why he hadn´t voted.

The rest seems... sincere.


[unvote]

 

~~And here's the catch. This isn't why I was getting pressure. Hell, I think Dice liked the fact that I eventually voted Seph. Sooh and Darthe were bothered by the vote because the manner in which I delivered it was completely out of character for me. I kind of feel like Tina just went along for the ride. She doesn't know what's normal for me. She was bothered by the sequence? If she was humoring the possibility that my vote was sincere, it's no secret that Seph asked me why I didn't vote him first. This was my stated reason for voting him.

#310 Darthe votes Tina and makes it clear that he doesn't want to say why yet. Tina responds that she doesn't understand his vote.

#314 ISOs everyone, no analysis but doesn't want to lynch BFG, Thane, Seph, Leelou. Quotes BFG's uncertainty over whether Kivam's interpretations are sincere or intentionally twisted. Says she's wondering the same thing.

~~Kivam does have some questions to answer here. I don't think he's going to be addressing them before EoD.

[v]TinaHel[/v]

I'm comfortable with this one as the D1 lynch.

[Shad_]

Out for the night, should be on before EoD.

[Andrej]

Vote Count 1.9

 

Kivam (1) - Seph

TinaHel (2) - Darthe, Shad

Shad (1) - Kivam

 

Not Voting: Hallia, Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, dicetosser1, BFG, Talya, Sooh, Leelou, TinaHel

 

7 to lynch.

 

Deadline: 12pm PST tomorrow. Just under 14 hours to go.

[BFG]

Good morning :)

[Andrej]

Good evening :)