[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Thane Vakarian]

Hallia, who are your top townies this game?

[Talya]

What do you remember from Darthe this game? I don't recall anything even slightly looking as wolf hunting. Some FoS here, some there, some odd comments, but that's it. I don't buy it that it can only be because of his new job.

 

As for Kivam, he keeps going on about the same things. Also, types a lot, says too little. 

 

Darthe feels bored with this game.  Needs to answer a few questions,  but not someone I would jump on atp (no offence Darthe )

 

I agree about Kivam.

[keyholder21]

 

 

How long until deadline? 9pm PST means nothing - AJ any chance of a count down. I have a feeling I'm not going to be here for the deadline, it's way passed my bedtime, and I'm not setting the alarm. :p

 

 

 

 

I'm going to do a VC with a countdown right now :). 

[Thane Vakarian]

key

[keyholder21]

Vote Count 2.10 (unchanged)

Shad (2) - Kivam, Hallia
dicetosser1 (1) - Leelou
Sooh (2) - Talya, Darthe
Kivam (3) - Dicetosser1, Shad, Seph
Hallia (1) - AlannaLynn

Not Voting (2) - Thane Vakarian, Sooh

6 to lynch.

Deadline: 9pm PST Tuesday, August 11

[Shad_]

Dice:

#202, 204

 

Picks up a big sign that says

CLARITY


and hits seph over the head with it. What did I tell you?

 

I wont be voting seph today and im actually pretty close to leaning town on him. Based off what i learnt about him when mentoring. He was town then and i am seeing a lot of the same town and puppylike overeagerness that gets him hit with signs.


Am looking at Shad was concerned he was fencesitting on seph but then he dropped the vote. reevaluating.

 

~~I thought this with Seph felt pretty natural when I read it the first time. I'm not sure what constitutes "fencesitting" in Dice World.

#206 Describes his tone reading approach.

#213 Asks BFG if he should be worried about her.

#329 The "reads" discussion I've talked about before. I'm pretty meh about the whole thing. Dice definitely misunderstands Kivam. Kivam is definitely capable of twisting a misunderstanding into a scum read, whether he does it intentionally or not. Looking through again, I think it's interesting that Kiv considers the post "delfection and distraction" to protect Seph, because Kiv isn't scum reading Seph at the time. I do see where Kiv maybe got the sense that Dice and Seph were team mates from 202 and 204, but I'm back to "deflection and distraction" from what? From an opportunity for Kivam to derp clear Dice's team mate? Kiv's take on this makes less sense now.

#330 defines gut read and soul read for Seph

#501 Thane doubts Dice. Dice says Thane often doubts him when Thane is mafia. ~~This is kind of goofy. Does the notion "If Thane thinks I'm mafia when I'm not, Thane is probably mafia" come from a scum Dice or a town Dice?

#502 explains inactivity as there hasn't been much to comment on, doesn't understand what Kiv's going at and has commented on Seph. ~~Null

#539 worried because Thane is doubting him, agree to disagree on semantic issue with Kiv. ~~Null

#565 thinks Tina and Thane should be able to spot town Dice easily. ~~Tina had been lynched at this point. I'm siding town with Thane. The way Dice is pressing this I begin to see it as a pretty big gamble if he's scum and Thane is town. Dice didn't actually vote anyone. He called me out for "fence sitting" when I didn't vote Seph in a matter of minutes. Isn't not voting Thane all phase "fence sitting?" w/w possibilities here?

#588 A little concerned with Leelou, ok with Seph Laine BFG, doesn't like the Tina lynch. ~~Dice does love voting no lynch.

#590 Ok with Sooh's tone, mostly null with Hallia

#594 Head says mafia on me but not gut

#609 Laine wanted Dice to support his gut reads. He says he isn't good at casing, tells her to look at his target and make up her own mind. ~~This one sits well with me.

#623 BFG said I'd been "building up to it" regarding a Seph vote. Dice highlights this, says it's what she lynched him for last game.

#630 BFG doesn't like Dice using Kiv as an excuse to not play. Dice denies he's doing that and says he just doesn't understand Kiv.

#762 Reading Thane town now, other town reads haven't changed. Really dislikes the Shad train. WTL Leelou and Kivam. Kivam isn't clear in general. Thinks Leelou is making a scummy push on him, is quiet, no substance to posts. Responds to Leelou voting him by voting her. Asks Talya to ISO Leelou. ~~I don't really consider that an accurate description of Leelou's game as I'm reading it here.

#763 "oh and talya? you mentioned about voting before not being here? That assumes you have made up your mind who you want to vote." ~~No sure what it's referencing without a quote

#767 says 'aggressive/pushy = town, quiet = mafia' is not the correct way to read Dice. Quotes Leelou saying she's seen nothing townie out of Dice and says the same of her.

#768 says no lynch is normal Thane

#773 wants to see Leelou try to hunt scum

#786 gets highly offended by aspects of Kivam's post that he takes as a personal attack

#787 says he wasn't defending me in #623, says he wants to hear thoughts on Sooh and Hallia. Is concerned about the early vote pile on me.

#788 still WTL Leelou or Kivam, accuses Kivam of cherry picking and switches his vote there. ~~I noted Kivam cherry picking in my ISO

#793 weird post in response to my Kivam ISO. Focuses on the one negative thing I say about Dice and defends himself against Kivam's accusations. ~~I feel like he should have been more interested in what I had to say about Kivam, considering that's who he's voting.

 

 

---------

 

Meh, I don't know what are town tells vs scum tells for Dice.  If he's scum he's lurky scum.  Possible w/w Dice Thane, maybe, but I'm ok with Thane.  I would definitely take a Dice lynch over a Thane lynch.  I can see issues with Dice but I think Kivam is taking advantage of him (and trying to with me) and that's where my vote's staying so far.  I have to take care of the kid for a while and don't know if I'll be back before EoD to read more.

[Thane Vakarian]

Shad, top townies for you?

[Hallia]

I would say Kiv and Leelou.  I also like you and Laine for town at the moment, Thane.

[Thane Vakarian]

interesting. What do you see in Kivam that i am missing?

[Talya]

Trying to ISO Kivam...I could lynch just for having to do it!

 

No quotes

 

He does that Emo test with Shad. Gets into talk on Emo in games

 

Goes into Seph for his 0-2 read and "soul read" VOTES SEPH

 

A few posts about this

 

Realises he was wrong (this was at 5.47pm my time)

 

UNVOTES (this is at 9.19pm)

 

Then says he was looking to see who would jump on the wagon, but no one did. - 3 and half hours for his "test" when most will be at work?

 

Questions on Sooh and Tina over their comments on Shad vote. I found this all confusing. Pushes Tina here, then votes her for being a low poster.

 

Talk on Scum doing reads or not as he said they are fake reads. - This to me feels wrong, not what he is saying, but people are mostly lazy and will put reads for all, even though they know that mafia make fake reads, pointless posts on this, feels like mudding the waters for the affect.

Same with the Saying who our town reads are and town reads are - again misdirection by the lawyer.

 

All this pads the thread with no scum hunting or game solving.

 

Then goes at Shad for him misrepresenting his posts.

 

Goes back to suspecting Seph

 

UNVOTES Tina - she wasn't really FOS her, just to get her responding.

 

WTL - Seph, Shad, Dice - Kivam, do you still have Seph in you WTL

 

VOTES Shad D2

 

Shad misrepresenting him

 

Darthe interaction over Darthe's view on Thane, again this semantics not game solving, he is too good at that.

 

ISO's me - Kiv why Me, you then did Dice who was in your WTL?

 

ISO's Dice

 

Reading his ISO, leaves me feeling Meh! I'm struggling where to put him. places he muddy's the water with what I call non game stuff (not scum hunting), and other times pushes things. It's so long since I played with him, memory is bad, did he muddy waters in other games?

 

Went for Tina over Sooh - Sooh not overly active. If Sooh wolf I think Kivam would be too, but I'm not there yet in thinking Kivam can be wolf, but still think Sooh can be. 

[Talya]

Vote Count 2.10 (unchanged)

 

Shad (2) - Kivam, Hallia

dicetosser1 (1) - Leelou

Sooh (2) - Talya, Darthe

Kivam (3) - Dicetosser1, Shad, Seph

Hallia (1) - AlannaLynn

 

Not Voting (2) - Thane Vakarian, Sooh

 

6 to lynch.

 

Deadline: 9pm PST Tuesday, August 11

 

 <3 Thank you

[Shad_]

Shad, top townies for you?

Poking in on phone, glad to see DL further out than I expected, town is not telling so hot but I accept Leelou Sooh Seph you prob Talya into the cool kids club with no one epically clear yet. I posted reasons last night.

[Thane Vakarian]

i can live with that, Shad, thank you

[Thane Vakarian]

DL will be when i'll be asleep, so i'll probably vote when i get back from work and let it stick there untill end of day.

[Kivam]

 

Im pretty lost on Kiv atm. I keep going back and forth.

 

I'm feeling much more confident in tayla and leelou, and strangely have leelou as my strongest town read. Her posts about were truthfu in my opinion, and even if she is wrong, she at least believes what she is typing.

 

Sooh, and Dice have fallen a bit for me, but I don't think I would lynch them today.

 

Bfg had a good post But if shad is mafia, who the partners would be.

 

I agree about the Kivam bit, need to look here.

 

 

@ Sooh, I never said I thought Seph was your team mate. If you are wolf then hard defending someone as town is easy as you KNOW his alignment, if he is town.

Oh really? From what I read you seemed to be suspecting him too. I guess this leaves you with wifom. I have told you what I think about Seph. I have been good at catching him in the past, so unless something had changed drastically lately I don't think he's mafia this game. 

 

Another question Sooh, how are you seeing Seph as still town if his posting has changed a lot and he is mostly absent from the thread?

Changed a lot? How do you figure that? I have to be honest and say that I haven't noticed a change. Might be because I'm travelling and only able to give this game part of my attention, but I still don't see anything that makes me want to lynch him. 

 

 

He suddenly stopped posting, and has been sporadic after being dominant in thread.

 

Id vote kiv

 

Why?

 

Vote Count 2.9

 

Shad (2) - Kivam, Hallia

dicetosser1 (1) - Leelou

Sooh (2) - Talya, Darthe

Kivam (3) - dicetosser1, Shad, Seph

Hallia (1) - AlannaLynn

 

Not Voting (2) - Thane Vakarian, Sooh

 

6 to lynch.

 

Deadline: 9pm PST Tuesday August 11th

 

Hally why Shad, you haven't given much thought on him, please expand?

 

Kivam, you have dazzled us with words. In simple sentences why Shad?

 

Alanna - You seem to have a lot to say to Shad, but not voting him, why?

 

Seph why the flip to Kivam?

 

Shad, Another wordy guy, briefly, why Kivam?

 

How long until deadline? 9pm PST means nothing - AJ any chance of a count down. I have a feeling I'm not going to be here for the deadline, it's way passed my bedtime, and I'm not setting the alarm. :p

 

Lack of time now, but will take a look at Kivam.

 

 

Why Shad?

 

1) What he's done. Too many little things adding up to a lot of suspicion.  The vote on Seph seemed hesitant and then came in after what I thought was a valid explanation from Seph only when pushed on it; that could easily be read null but when added to the rest (coming up) seems more likely about scumming.  The claim that I pushed Sooh when I said I was annoyed that Shad got pressure early enough to prevent further bandwagon jumping comes across as narrative pushing, especially when I was pretty damn clear in my post that I wasn't FOSing Sooh or Tina for that pressure (I said I was "annoyed", which doesn't imply "suspicious" even a little bit) and then clarified as much to Darthe at post 212, which came 4 hours before Shad's narrative push at 244. I have a hard time believing Shad just missed my post, especially given that he didn't respond to my request for quotes about "having a go at Sooh for sussing [shad] over the Seph vote" (and no, saying that I didn't like Sooh's overreaction to my use of the word "pressure" was not in any way "having a go at her" for her suspicion of Shad). That was enough to make me ok with voting Shad for D1. Then going back and rereading during the night and in light of Shad's "I thought he was reaction fishing" and other posts after I had signed off (like claiming I was trapping Seph) made that read stronger.  Especially given ...

 

2) The Dice connection.  Dice took a back seat for D1, then suddenly started spinning after I put a vote on Shad.  (The fact that Shad is now misrepresenting my "deflection and distraction" comment as about Dice distracting from Seph when it was actually about distracting from Shad - since Dice didn't speak up about it until I parked my vote on Shad for Shabbos - only makes that connection stronger).  I actually have an equally strong scumread on Dice given all the things I've mentioned over the past few days, and the two reads are buttressing each other given Dice's play WRT Shad.  Would happily lynch either one today, but Shad likely provides more info than Dice does, which is why Shad is choice No. 1.

 

3) The stalled train; often a sign of scum refusing to jump on a teammate unless absolutely unavoidable + pushing other options. 

[Kivam]

i could connect Laine and Dice some, if i wanted. And it would make sense too. She called me reactive when i called out for dice to suck it up and start to play. I'd say i was more frustrated town than reactive, but the slight defense is noted. Could be important later

 

Saw that too - but as I noted in my DiceO, later posts cut against that connection; my gut says they aren't teammates (and if they are both scum and we lose because of that interaction, I'll tip my cap)

 

[Talya]

I said brief,

 

I'm off out tonight, will look in before bed and read that reply Kiv.

[Kivam]

What do you remember from Darthe this game? I don't recall anything even slightly looking as wolf hunting. Some FoS here, some there, some odd comments, but that's it. I don't buy it that it can only be because of his new job.

 

As for Kivam, he keeps going on about the same things. Also, types a lot, says too little. 

 

I'm fairly confident that at least one of Dice and Shad, and probably both, are scum.  I'd put the odds of at least 1 being scum at 75-80%.  I haven't seen anyone engage with my actual cases on both of them (which is incredibly frustrating), so I'm just going to keep making the same points until somebody does.  I'm doing ISOs on other people to avoid tunneling too much, but those two are by far my best bets for scum and deadline is closing in, so ... deal with it

 

[Kivam]

I said brief,

 

I'm off out tonight, will look in before bed and read that reply Kiv.

To a lawyer, the page limit for briefs is usually 15-35 pages.  That was barely a memo

[Thane Vakarian]

i doubt Shad is wolf this game. I would be able to get onto a dice vote, if that were to happen. It would potentially solve a few slots. 

[Darthe]

I'm reading posts under a paragraph.

[Thane Vakarian]

Hi Darthe. Who are your top 3 townies?

[Darthe]

Top three would be tough this round, you're right about it being a low effort game. I would say that Talya, Shad and leelou all have avoided things I generally find wolfy and have made good contributory posts in a lot of areas that I value.

 

Btw I'm working on two masters degrees and have a 50+ hour a week job. If you want to suspect me because you find my play wolfy then do so but if you just wanna challenge me and prod know that at some point I'm liable get you lynched for it. Take that as wolfy if you want to, it's just honest. I know I'm town and if I see that you're dedicated to removing a townie I'll absolutely make sure I do not lose.

[Kivam]

i doubt Shad is wolf this game. I would be able to get onto a dice vote, if that were to happen. It would potentially solve a few slots. 

 

Got to run (work stuff) but since Shad is getting no traction I'll take you up on that.  [v]unvote. Vote Dice[/v].  Equal up our trains and let's see what happens from there.

[Thane Vakarian]

Top three would be tough this round, you're right about it being a low effort game. I would say that Talya, Shad and leelou all have avoided things I generally find wolfy and have made good contributory posts in a lot of areas that I value.

 

Btw I'm working on two masters degrees and have a 50+ hour a week job. If you want to suspect me because you find my play wolfy then do so but if you just wanna challenge me and prod know that at some point I'm liable get you lynched for it. Take that as wolfy if you want to, it's just honest. I know I'm town and if I see that you're dedicated to removing a townie I'll absolutely make sure I do not lose.

And that, is a very good answer imo. All three of them would be in my top town too. 

 

I know i've been prodding and perhaps challenging you, and should i have annoyed you doing so, i do wish to apologize. We're in this game together, after all. And if what you say is true, that you're town, then i wouldn't mind reaching endgame with you.