Belichick - Mafia Eternal Night

[Andrej]

Good morning Thane.

[BFG]

Morning:)

[Andrej]

Was attempting to read more in ISO but my eyes are starting to hurt so I'm gonna call it a night. I'll be on again first thing to read since I wake up later than most of you (PST) and hopefully I'll get to post a bit before I have to leave for work. Once I'm gone for the day I can't check my phone often.

 

Shad

BFG

Zander

 

Talya

Dice

Thane

 

Verb

 

Laine

Rand

 

Basically where I'm at currently. Consider Verb to be null for a reference point

[BFG]

AJ, what did you think of Talyas point on Thane regarding setup stuff, specifically mafia NK. I don't think I recall mafiaThane doing that sort of thing

[Thane Vakarian]

@BFG: i see that you noticed that i change my way to play. Sometimes i post reads lists, other times i don't. I try to avoid having the same playstyle all the time. But, i need to do a better job at it, seeing i'm always pinging as scummy, even when town.

 

Besides that.. i do hope you're town this game...really, i do. But i'm not quite feeling it just yet.

 

I try to put my thoughts out after a NK, to see what other people think and if my mind is working fine. I've said so before, i have a hard time D1, but i try to connect dots and solve the game after the first flips. Unfortunately, it has been a bad night for town, so we (town) need to get our act together.

 

For the moment, i am here:

 

my homies:

Shad  

AJ

Zander

 

i want these to be town:

BFG: solid posting, i liked her entrance in the game... even now she makes sense. But, 100% town? not yet.

 

 

mixed:

Talya:  having read what Zander was all about, it does make sense. You could surely be a wolf. But, other people read you town. You have me a tad confused, but not enough yet for me to willing to lynch you

Verb: nice posts.. but has missed most of D1 and N1.... looking forward to hear more from you so that i can either put you up there ^^ with the blue, or in hell with the oranges

 

wolf among these:

Dice: you frustrate me. i just haven't found enough to be able to clear you. You're in the bottom 3 by PoE

Laine: Where's the town leader i have seen before? i haven't seen her here yet. It makes me sad... i just don't feel the same way about you as i did last game.

Rand: ugh... i think he beat me in relative bad posts to good posts ratio this game. Which is an achievement. An achievement that will not earn you a medal here, though... more a short drop and a quick stop.

[Thane Vakarian]

and now, coffee

[dicetosser1]

 

 

 

 

Im a happy camper at the mo cause im pretty sure I have my Town boys in the house. AJ and Yates if you dont know who im talking about.

 

Scum   I still dont like LAine. It was the tone of her response to me compared to how she had responded to others, then there was a bit where she was trying to lay the blame on me. Also not feeling Hally. Much more aggressive and im not liking what shes put out on thane

 

Looks like it's up to us to avenge Yates. What are some of your other reads besides me/Laine and I presume Thane (as town based on what I snipped from this post) ?r, on 08 Jul 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

 

 

 

@Dice, Any new reads? Other than AJ/Laine?

 

Why are you asking Dice specifically here?

 

 

 

Red    Im happy with talya actually.

 

BFG i cant make my mind up on but am leaning town a bit

 

there was something about shad that i didnt like but i cant remember what it was exactly.

 

Blue   shes like the third or fourth person to do it. Laine did which makes sense Talya did I think Shad did   which may be what im not remembering.

 

 

AJ if you iso me it will take about 3 minutes bro. Ive been slack 

 

 

Laine has done nothing to change my thinking

 

vote Laine 

[BFG]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/94787-belichick-mafia-day-two/page-24?do=findComment&comment=3508419

 

 

Rand, can you explain why you're ignoring alltogether the setup spec from Thane, but commenting on it for Talya? It feels like you're setting up the next step. lso you ignore Laines participation in this conversation altogether, despite her being one of your suspects?

 

Next post it's worth noting that he says Dice is acting like Dice, Dice is also voting Laine, yet leaves Dice off his reads list.

 

Not a fan of his Day 1, which can basically be summed up by Laines vote reaction, game mechanics and fluff. Day 2 seems mostly so far a 'need to reread' sort of thing.

 

I don't hate that he has Thane as town, it was non consensus. I don't follow his thought process in how he's reacting to people in the game mechanics talk, seems erratic at best.

 

Does he push Laine to the second highest train (or try to) and then bail if they're teammates? :/ need more!

[BFG]

@Thane, I don't want you to feel cornered into playing a set way, that makes this game no fun and I know I just play how I want to/feel and dont think very hard about how I 'should' be playing. I'm sorry if you thought otherwise!

 

I just don't have a clue how to read you and when you don't share your thoughts I'm basically relying on random :/

 

Anyway you have thoughts so...

 

And I need to get to work, I'll read Thanes and Diced posts properly when I can

[BFG]

Also Zander the question about how strongly you've associated Talya and myself is important

[BFG]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/94787-belichick-mafia-day-two/page-24?do=findComment&comment=3508419

Rand, can you explain why you're ignoring alltogether the setup spec from Thane, but commenting on it for Talya? It feels like you're setting up the next step. lso you ignore Laines participation in this conversation altogether, despite her being one of your suspects?

Next post it's worth noting that he says Dice is acting like Dice, Dice is also voting Laine, yet leaves Dice off his reads list.

Not a fan of his Day 1, which can basically be summed up by Laines vote reaction, game mechanics and fluff. Day 2 seems mostly so far a 'need to reread' sort of thing.

I don't hate that he has Thane as town, it was non consensus. I don't follow his thought process in how he's reacting to people in the game mechanics talk, seems erratic at best.

Does he push Laine to the second highest train (or try to) and then bail if they're teammates? :/ need more!

EBWOP at his vote, Laine would have become joint highest train.

[alannalynn]

Good morning, catching up in the thread but I'll be here if anyone wants to talk

[Zander?]

Morning Alanna!!! getting caught up and im around.  what are your current thoughts atp?

[Zander?]

@ AJ concerning Rand

 

His posts 466-467 quote/bold and underline are direct quotes from his posts

___________________________________--

 

 

 

 

like his reads except on Alanna and AJ.

no problems with his progression and his thoughts process though I dont agree with them all.

(and he kinda seems like he adds Dice as well in post 467)

 

And ofc he starts to see Talya for what she is as well.
 

 

"So basically town reads on Yates, Shad, and Thane"

"Scum reads on Alanna, Talya, AJ

 

For now, [v]Alanna or Laine?[\v] not good at nicknames sorry"

[Zander?]

FYI-  Can we PLEASE stop these MONSTER posts.  Its way too much to quote and try to respond to.

[alannalynn]

Starting at page 55, good to see town Verbal again, I like your posts with Zander; I know he's good with his gut reads but if he doesn't get the rest of us to see what he's seeing, it's not gonna go anywhere. On that note, this is the first time I'm not immediately scum reading Talya, which is why she's been sitting in my null. I don't know if it's becuase she has a mentor or because I'm getting used to her, but that's that. Probably would move her up to a cautiously townie spot.
 

Verbal looking to run for town council up in here.  Not mayor, though - I'm voting Shad for mayor.  I'll cry real tears if my village reads are off this game.  Real tears.

I like that you're town reading Shad, if you weren't I'd be worried. On that note, @ Andrej, where are you at irt Shad at this point?
 

 

I'm around kinda Hi Shad
 

Zander, if Talya is scum what are your thoughts on who her team mates might be?
 
Unrelated but I'm kind of frustrated right now because Hallia and Pral feel like real wastes of N1 vig shots and I doubt they died to scum.  -_-  Shooting Rand would have been more likely to kill scum given what we knew at the time and the flip would have given us decent leads either way.

^ Probably Yates that killed Hallia, right? That would make the most sense to me. I can see Yates as a mafia kill. Pral, I have no idea about.

 

Why would Yates be probable to kill Hallia?

 

 Rand, reasons that I think Yates shot Hally:
Yates' post: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, just to name a few.
I feel like you're not even reading the thread, lol
 

Maybe I'l try it this way. In the other games like SW and ME everyone at some point starting reading Talya as Maf or into a PoE this game no one but me is.  Those other games she a little more all over the place this game very concise like she KNOWS who is who,  Like she has to putting EVEN more effort and thought into what she says and does to leave little to no space for error.   Town!Talya is a little more... carefree maybe the word im looking for.   I hope my explanation makes sense.  My gut is telling me somethings up here and so Im following it.

 Maybe this is why I feel comfortable with her for once? haha
 

Still need to reread, but I need someone to give me Shad_'s personality, not as a mafia player but just in general if that makes sense?  As a mafia player too I guess, that's important

 Shad's smart, he hasn't played a lot of games (under 5?). His first game he came in knowing way too much and it was really impressive and he's basically the best townie. Not been mafia yet as far as I know, I'll fear for the town's safety when that day comes haha
 

Verdict: BFG's progressions are smooth as ice and she's really doing her homework.  Little things like town reading Talya without asking her questions first when she pressed others to get early reads.  A big thing in not voting Rand.  But all-in-all, if BFG is wolf she's pretty impressive.  I've never seen a wolf maintain this level of consistency, conform so many reads to responses, and put in this much work.  Is scum!BFG this good?  Someone in this game ought to know.  I have a feeling my strong town read out the gate is going to hold up.  The things that bug me do not trump the many, many things that do not here.  If I went into this much detail on anyone I would find a couple issues.
 
So yeah, tell me scum BFG is really great at pretending to hunt wolves and evolve fake reads organically, preferably with a game example, or I'll be happy to put the breaks on her slide down from my town pile.

 This and your WoT actually make me feel a lot better about BFG, and I've been kinda leaning town for a bit because she's very consistent. I was worried at first because I haven't played with her before and she asks very detailed questions and gauges responses. While this could be a good wolf cover, I doubt it; I think putting her in my town pile is good right now and I'll make sure to go back and read over her stuff too to make sure I'm comfortable with her there.
 

Have read most of the stuff covered today at glance when I could afford the time. I'll be on my laptop soon to quote/respond accordingly.

Still pretty good voting Rand at this point. I agree with Verb's comment about how if he were a mislynch we likely would've seen him swing yesterday. The fact two villagers have flipped on his wagon plus my read on Shad & Talya I agree that could've very easily been a pure town wagon. The fact it didn't go through is troublesome and nothing Rand posted today makes me feel better about him.

 I would have gone with the Rand lynch yesterday and missed voting before work, but I'm all for this train today based on what I've seen so far.
 

What's icky is there's not much left.  So 3 scum between:

BFG, AJ, Verbal, Talya, Dice, Laine, Rand, Zander, and Thane.

Back to town reading BFG after that rather exhausting ISO.
I think Zander is wrong but he's being so Zander.  Hard to believe he could fake this.
AJ hasn't given me any cause to doubt.
Talya feels like town Talya pretty much.  I might be wary that I've found her so agreeable D1 when I usually don't town read her until D2, but I want to think that's becaus I've played a few games with her now.  She's still going against the grain/doing her own thing e.g. scum reading Zander and null on Laine when a lot of people are town reading them.

 

Read at present:
 
 
AJ - I have had a good feeling about his posts, I don't see the tunneling that some do, I saw that in the SW game on Seph and this seems more logical and thought out.
Hally - not voting her today, I have really like her posts and thought processes.
BFG - Her questioning and opening part of the game seem sound to me.
 
Dice - I did get a town read on his initial posts to Alanna, I would like to hear more from him
Thane - he had a couple of posts I didn't like towards the end, with his OMGUS vote, but overall, I have a town feel on him.
Shad - I like his posts first of all, I went back and reread, I think I looked too deeply into what he was saying and got a little wrapped up in it. not as high as first, but still on the towny side
Laya - I have like the first few posts he has done, not agreeing with his vote on Hally, positive feel atm
Yates - I have liked posts so far, his thing he did, I don't see what the point of that was if he was wolf, in another game where another team maybe, but can't see what information he would get out of it as a wolf. The only way would be if he was trying clear team mates, I know I'm town, so I'm not seeing this. Still hasn't answer my question on Hally thought. slight town read.
Alanna - I'm not getting a town read on her, however not getting a strong wolf read. There have been a couple of things that I have noticed mainly to do with Thane, and this brings her down to a null
Zander - He grates at me, and I'm not sure where this makes me want to put him. He did this in the last game, and is doing it here, not sure if that means he is town here. There doesn't seem to be any progression in his reads and seems to push others for what they think and then jumps on that.
Rand - Really didn't like his first few posts, there was more fluff in them than needed, and quite a bit has happened so missed a lot, seemed to pick on some inane things to point someone Alanna as scum, although I don't like her stuff with Thane, his did seem reaching. Quite happily vote here
Verb - Verbal, Verbal, where for art thou Verbal -send out a search party
 
the list sort of goes down from Town to mafia, (Apart from Verb), some in the middle can easily go up or down though

SW might not have been a great example of scum!Verbal, I don't know, but I wanted to lynch him D1 his tone was so different from Alien.  He's talking like Alien again in this game.  Feels good.
Laine feels like Laine but maybe less active?  She's not leading the pack like I'm used to but she didn't D1 in SW either.  Thinking it's an availability thing.
Most people like Dice.
Thane looking better.
Rand not looking better enough.
 
Dice Thane and Rand?  Meh.  What else do we have?  Laine being sneaky wolf, able to replicate her tone but maybe not her content so much?  I do see connections between BFG and Talya, mainly in their town reads of each other without much explanation, but I don't get scum vibes from either of them.  A deeper wolf really pulling the wool over our eyes?

 

 I like your reads list here Shad, I'm having trouble with Thane and Dice still though. Seeing Thane D2 I'm feeling a little better about his responses but probably not moving him out of my scummish pile due to D1. As for Dice, all I see is him tunneling me and I would like some other input on this. I think BFG and a few others weighed in and said this was a townie move on his part, so I'd rather treat him as such until I can get a better feel (this is why I had to cop view him in SW danggit) but I still have this nagging feeling at how he jumped into the game and suddenly started going after me. So, I'm on the fence there.

Edit: Later BFG asks why I was trusting her reads of Dice even though she was in null for me atp: you took the time to do the research and your observations are generally really spot on, so I trust you when you say Dice is playing different in ME/SW. Then again, I'm still not quite there with him enough to consistently read him higher than my scum pile, if that makes sense
 

 

 

[v]Rand[/v]nch

 
[v]Rand[/v] only lynch I'm feeling pretty good about.

 
im not sure Rand flips wolf here but ANYTHING is better then a No Lynch.  we need the info.  But im feeling a wolfy vibe from BFG/Talya...only places I can see myself voting unless a major slip of some sorts.

 Why don't you feel Rand is scum, Zander?
 

 

Kind of sketched out by Laine's posts on pg 54 but maybe I'm just being paranoid.
 
At this point there's 3 wolves in 10 players. Take yourself out and you get 9, 1/3 of those are wolves.
 
Clear some town reads and post your POE pool imo and I think we'll have a pretty clear direction to move in for toDay.

 
Was it the "if I were mafia" comment?  I got blasted so hard for those in my first game.  Learned kind of quick to not word things that way regardless of what I'm thinking.  <_<

 I don't see anything wrong with that phrase; I tend to try and think from their mindset to predict what they would do. Meh.
 

Below four quotes from Andrej's WoTs, I trimmed down just the questions for me, but you can click them to see the context (didn't want a ton of nestled quotes)

This one sort of bugs me because I don't understand the (seemingly) disconnect between the stuff she quotes from Hallia that she states she doesn't like but town reads her for how she's reacting to Yates?

I was town reading Hally at this point and I was a little disappointed at first that she wasn't fighting with the LOLs but then she bounced back. I honestly hated her vote on Yates, it was pure OMGUS because he was calling her out and that in itself didn't look good, but she built back up with her responses and didn't get herself lynched.
 

Don't really like the bolded section here. Reads to me like Laine is no longer considering Dice a suspect? I don't remember this read coming about and would like to hear her explain it.

Read above where I responded to Shad about Dice. I'm really flip flopping on him and I can't quite place it I guess.
 

Disagree with the bolded. Strongly dislike the underlined.

I was in a hurry with the two posts that you quoted, so let me better explain what I meant: Pral was pretty quiet on D1 and pretty much only fos'd me and Hally (?) I believe, so my conclusion is that the kill was made to create wifom, based on Hally's flip and me knowing my alignment. Sure, we should look back, but to try and guess the reasons behind that kill is guesswork at best. As for the second part of that, as mafia I would be more likely to kill a loud town player over someone whose post count was below 10, especially you or Zander because you two are strong town leaders and generally are pretty good at searching out wolves. We could also conclude that we have a deep wolf high in the town piles that's why specific kills weren't made, but I'm sure on Zander and mostly sure on you, so I don't know where that gets me, that's for later tinfoil imo.
 

NK spec is always a little scummy to me on the merit that scum can talk about it in a misleading way. The part you say about the obvious targets not being a threat doesn't really align with what you said previously about Pral's reads not being worth looking into. If you/me/Zander weren't killed because we're not threats (and I assume this means on the right track) then wouldn't it make more sense to look at Pral's reads? Or at least consider them?

See above, guesswork.

[alannalynn]

FYI-  Can we PLEASE stop these MONSTER posts.  Its way too much to quote and try to respond to.

Oops.

[Zander?]

@Shad, regarding Talya/Zander. I initially thought that Zander had gone from town reading Talya to her pinging, I remembered his initial post as saying she was 'into it' or words to that affect which I generally associate with town reads and didn't remember anything in the interim that would account for that.

 

Between the first post and second I found his initial post and realised that Talya was null to him initially, then looked through thread to see if there was something there to justify it. At that stage in the game there still wasn't a lot going on so I was 'picking' at minor things still.

 

Re Talya, I'd been fairly neutral on her all day, but the stuff she posted in the run up to day, I just don't see coming from mafia. That may be silly of me to say as I have no knowledge of what mafia!Talya is like, she could be another Cass, but that's what I feel. If you go through those posts, she addresses pretty much everyone, she appears to be looking to solve the game, her reads are non consensus but for the right reasons, her ISO on Thane followed on from what she was thinking and didn't look like busy work. I just can't see Talya as mafia this game.

 

Re Thane, he's probably the player that's hardest for me to get a read on. I had him as light town in SW up untilhis reentrance Day 2, so can't clear him on tone or 'ease' on thread (which is grating because I should have known that anyway from a previous game where he fooled Tommy by tone) although I 'want' to. This game he's made some posts that have me thinking town, his read on me is close towhat I think town Thane thinks, in as much as Thane is one of many players who doesn't seem to ever clear me, but he does view how I interact on thread as alignment indicative. The caveat here is that I don't know how mafia Thane reads me so can't use this to clear him either. When you and Hallia stated the repetitive read thing, I started wondering if that held so dropped him to null to check it out. AJ posted his stuff on Thane which made me feel better again. I checked out AG, SW, Pokemon and ME yesterday. In AG and Pokemon his early posts were entire game solve, read lists posts. He didn't post anything like that in SW, so I started wondering if game solve posts were his thing, but he didn't seem to post any in ME either. I have never seen Thane get irritated in that manner yesterday and dont know how to process that. One frustrating thing about him is that he doesn't fight his lynch when town, he views mislynches as necessary for information. I don't know if change is Thane finally breaking that orjust annoyance at branding mafia again. In short, I just don't know.

 

Re me, thanks for the paying attention thing, I was starting to think I was going bonkers. Also the swayability of my opinions depends on how strong that opinion is, with Thane my opinion is pretty much what the last person said and to an extent Rand as well, which is why he probably ended up subconsciously at the bottom of the list.

 

My most recent mafia games are in the BT, pokemon is probably as 'good' as I can get and was boosted by subbing in with opinions I'd formed as uninformed. Also cliche mafia, but I had to sub out due to RL, so not a great example. Last town game was April Fools. Darthe and Cindy both seem to have a decent grasp of my mafia 'meta' after Pokemon

 

Re not voting - stupidity mostly. I had an alarm set for 4.15 slept through it and woke a minute before deadline. I should have voted anyway, I wasn't sure on Rand, and was on Hallia :(

 

@AJ, Re Dice, because other than Hallia as mafia he had no new opinions from the last time he posted before EOD, I'd hoped for more.

 

not a fan of your explanation in bold BFG. 

[alannalynn]

Morning Alanna!!! getting caught up and im around.  what are your current thoughts atp?

Current thoughts in my post above, current reads list:

Top town: Shad Zander Andrej

Towny: BFG Verbal Talya

Mixed: Dice

Bottom two: Thane Rand

[Zander?]

 

FYI-  Can we PLEASE stop these MONSTER posts.  Its way too much to quote and try to respond to.

Oops.

 

 

i almost wanna vote you now....lololololololol

[Zander?]

 

 

And "huge defense" was not a good way to word it on my part.  I said what I was thinking instead of what I was seeing.  But suffice to say she reacted very.... unexpectedly? to Zander's "Talya pings me" line.

 

Thats why my other Wolf Lean is BFG.

Then WHY didn't you say this? You've spoken a lit about tone, gut and disliking ny early read on Shad but bot bothered with anything specific like this.

 

Answered to Shad above, if there's anything else like this it will be best we deal with it now.

 

And additionally, how much of your Talya read is associated with me?

 

 

Cause Im more confident on my read of Talya and Im trying to progress on her.  And yes a part of my read on you is Talya related,  Patience sweet BFG I'll get to you soon enough...lolololololololol

 

But seriously I think you may be a wolf.

[Zander?]

 

 

Yates

 

 

YATES GOAT!!! He really took one for the team imo....lolololol

[alannalynn]

Zander: Rand, Dice, Thane? Thoughts

[Zander?]

TOWN:

 

AJ

Shad

Thane

Alanna

 

Dice

Verb

Rand

 

WOLF:

 

BFG

TALYA

[Zander?]

Zander: Rand, Dice, Thane? Thoughts

 

 

TOWN:

 

AJ

Shad

Thane

Alanna

 

Dice

Verb

Rand

 

WOLF:

 

BFG

TALYA

see above ^^^

 

Thane has imo almost 0% chance of flipping Wolf.  He is playing totally different then SW and hes more emotional and I could sense towny frustration from him.

 

Dice: im liking so far seems like town!dice to me.  still wanna see a little more.

 

Rand: i dont know.  didnt mind most of his reads and could kinda understand where his progression on his reads comes from though i dont agree with them all.  didnt like his not being around comments though.  also bonus...he noticed some of the stuff I did on Talya.