House of Cards

[Leelou]

AJ, can you give specifics as to why Dice is in your bottom 4? 

[Leelou]

Cory, thoughts on AJ as of this morning? 

[Leelou]

UNOFFICIAL Vote Count 

Wombat: cory caboose, AJ
Clovdyx: Leelou
Cass: Verbal32, clov
Andrej: WWWwombat

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline:

[Nynaeve]

Verbal, I still need you to explain the whole theory of why Sooh and Cass are not likely to be v/v in your eyes. It bothers me that you said you had to go back and read it to remember, considering you walked into D2 with a vote on Cass. It's really not a good look for you.

[Nynaeve]

I had a pretty crappy night and only woke up 30 mins ago. Have to study and do a bunch of stuff so I'm prolly gonna be around sporadically. 

 

Still got ISOs to do. Just not awake enough yet.

[Nynaeve]

AJ I appreciate your response. My paranoid side is telling me you might be a bit too agreeable and possibly trying to butter me up, but I can't decide either way until I take a closer look at your overall content. i'm not sure how I feel about you dropping seer cover to move Verbal to your POE pile. I can see the necessity of it if your opinion on him really did shift and it's true that if Verbal is scum your seer cover is blown anyhow.... But I think it was a tad premature seeing as Verbal has yet to respond to my ISO and consequent question. 

 

i dunno. Anyhow, I will comment more later after I have coffee.

[Nynaeve]

Leelou, unless I missed it, you didn't answer my question. Why are you town reading Verbal? I'd like you to explain.

[Nynaeve]

Because if I recall in your read list all you did was say he was sexy or w/e. Now you have a really weird habit of making these comments in your read lists when you're scum. Like when we were scum together you said I was pretty in your read list. And there's a second instance you did it again in some game I was spectating. I'm trying not to let it color my read of you, because I do think you've been playing a pro-town game so far. 

 

In any case, you read Verbal well and I'd like to know the specifics of why you are town reading him.

[Yates]

Vote Count 2.2

 

Wombat: cory caboose, Andrej

Clovdyx: Leelou

Cass: Verbal32, Clovdyx

Andrej: WWWwombat

 

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

 

Deadline in just over 24 hours from this post:

[Nynaeve]

Tress, I really need you to kick into gear. I know you're still with family and stuff but I need you to weigh in more if you can. Thanks <3

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

Stopping after page 11 but I would say it's very likely that Wombat/Verb/Cass/Sooh/Dice/Clov contains 2+ wolves

 

I will give you a better and more concise list later but right now those are the people I am most wary of

These sorts of posts/reads bother me Cory - how am I supposed to work out if your motivation for putting wolf suggestions out is more Town than Scum if you don't provide the reasons why/encourage more discussion?

I don't like this post. Cory has provided a solid amount of detail on the reasons why he's reading people the way he is. Whether or not he is correct is irrelevant to why I don't like this post - you're blatantly misrepping him here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wolfy:

 

Darthe - forceful on early Seer cover, ?explanation in post #54, both defending/distancing from Nyn, 'pre-vote' /overly hard push on Sooh

Why is any of the bold wolfy? Ignore the part about Nyn for purposes of your response, please. Just comment on the Seer cover and the push on Sooh. What of that was wolfy?

I've explained the Darthe and Seer cover thing in response to Clov here (See the last two paragraphs of the intro and the final spoiler if you missed it).

Basically it's not the Seer cover itself I find wolfy, it's the way Darthe made posting it early such a big thing and simultaneously admitted/downplayed the potential for incorrect early cover to be more beneficial to Scum trying to find the real Seer. Basically the concern is a potential role-fishing push to encourage a higher percentage of incorrect cover.

 

The Darthe on Sooh push felt wolfy because:

 

1. Darthe was the first to vote and the vote felt overly eager - He voted in the 'stumping' phase, where votes didn't count, and when questioned brushed it off as 'pre-vote' for the day, which didn't feel sincere;

 

 

 

Day 1 Starts at 9PM EST and will last 48 hours:

 

You may now begin stumping. Day does not start until 9:00PM EST. Votes will not count during the stump period. This is a good time to make alliances and grease palms...

 

/snip

 

 

/snip

[v] Sooh [/v]

 

Pre-voting for day Leelou

 

 

2. I disagreed with the generalisations that went with the vote and there was otherwise no specific reasons given or effort at interaction made:

 

 

/Snip

However, I think Sooh is definitely wolfing this round. She is usually a pretty pure townie. [v] Sooh [/v]

Sooh has been repeatedly pushed as not Townie early on in all the games I've played recently with her, so I completely disagree with the rationalisation that she's 'usually a pretty pure townie'.

This was all the involvement Sooh had in the game up until that vote, none of it seems investigative on Darthe's behalf, and none of it feels decidedly off for Sooh's early game, enough to vote, to me:

 

 

Hi everyone!

 

I will be scarce Thursday because I have an exam, and Friday because I'm overseeing someone else's exam. Other than that I should be fine

 

Happy visits to Vegas, Leelou! Sounds fun!

Lol I already love this game.

 

 

 

 

I'm a little sad Cory isn't showering me with love, but I guess I'll deal with it...

Weee!!!! Happy now!

I'm still gonna lunch you though

Ok.. warning accepted, Cory.

 

 

I'm a little sad Cory isn't showering me with love, but I guess I'll deal with it...

Prob a slightly wolfy intro

 

AJ I have read your soul and found it needs more content

 

 

Wombat, Cass, Dice scumteam.

Soulread?

 

Or is it just the Aussie theme?

 

 

**snip**

 

I'm pretty okay at mafia sometimes, Sooh, but I don't think I can soulread people who haven't posted.

 

Yeah... I suppose even you can't... Oh well...

 

After reading this post a couple of times, I'd doubt Cass and Sooh are w/w. This type of linking together typically does not come from v/v (imo), so I'd say one of you is a wolf. My initial gut read here says Sooh. Part of that is me putting faith in the only other villager in the game I know (my peek - Darthe), and the rest is the AtE posts she's been making.

 

I don't normally like to line up lynches like this (it is usually wolfy), but I'm going out on a limb to say if Sooh flips town, you're on the hot seat the following day.

Ok, here's the post people are having a problem about.

 

I did say that I did not think it came from v/v. Cass was defending Sooh by attacking Darthe. Think about this from my POV:

 

1. I was suspicious of Sooh, and had her #1 on my WTL

 

2. Cass appeared to be either white knighting Sooh, or maybe just defending as v/v.

 

3. But she defended Sooh by attacking Darthe, who is my N0 peek (if I'm Seer).

 

The combo of the three made me think they weren't v/v, and that one was a wolf. Not both, and not "none".

 

Why not w/w? Because it links them together too strongly, and wolves don't want that ever...especially not D1.

 

Why not v/v? Because of how she defended by attacking. This is probably where you folks are hung up with me - my interpretation that this was not likely. The whole situation left me with thinking there was a wolf there. I went with Sooh, but if she flipped town I had it in my head that I'd be wrong on Sooh and therefore it would mean I simply had the wrong player as wolf. So I also had Cass in my WTL, but based mostly on what I just explained.

 

It is entirely possible I've just explained that poorly, but I can only tell you what I was thinking and try to be as clear as I can. If I'm completely wrong and my 'logic' was stupid, so be it....but I'm standing behind this thought process and conclusion it brought me to.

[Verbal32]

Verbal, I still need you to explain the whole theory of why Sooh and Cass are not likely to be v/v in your eyes. It bothers me that you said you had to go back and read it to remember, considering you walked into D2 with a vote on Cass. It's really not a good look for you.

I don't have a good answer to why I didn't recall my reasons at the time and needed to reread it, so I won't try and come up with a bad one. I'll just say lolVerbal.

[Cass]

Discussing SHC is fine before the seer flip, it's basic kill analysis and has nothing to do with the actual seer peeks

 

It's really a very simple concept

 

 

I don't think you DO understand it if you don't use it before a seer flips.  I'm not talking about mechanical clears, via correct peeks.  What I'm saying is that you can either assume his peek was correct, or mafia chose to kill somebody they knew wasn't the cop.

 

Whether Darthe knew his peek was correct is literally meaningless.  Mafia knows everybody's alignment.  Anybody who fakepeeks mafia is less of a threat than somebody who (fake)peeks town.

 

 

Apparently, no, I don't understand SHC the way you are explaining it here and I didn't have the brain capacity earlier to get what you were saying or focus on where you might have been coming at from a Town perspective. Been over the whole discussion several times and I think this (bold, underline) is where I'm getting mixed up. Compounded with extra suspicion because your focus was specifically on Tress and Kaylee. Reading your posts to Kaylee felt to me like you were questioning her cover, not her alignment and that felt wrong. 

 

In hindsight, I missed Kaylee skipping out liking Tress' reads and it seems that I did not actually undertand SHC the way the term is being used (I had it as players being 'cleared' when a Seer flips). This is the first game I've played where I realistically should be doing kill analysis so the concept is really not that simple to me yet. Your explanations helped.

 

I can kind of see where your push could come from Town now, I think, but I still don't know if I trust it or not, or whether it's significant either way. 

 

These are the posts that most stand out:

 

 

 

 

I could've sworn I posted that I liked Tress's reads. Sorry about that must not have hit post last night.

Anyway, you made it seem like his was the only peek on Tress before EOD, but it wasn't. He may be the only dead one who peeked her but that wasn't why.

 

I explained why I did it the way I did. There's nothing more I can say on the matter.

You're also going to have to explain the red. Because that sounds like you know why he was killed (and that's bad).

Dammit Clov listen this time ok!

 

By the red I was saying yes he said he peeked her, but he wasn't the only one. That's it, plain and simple.

 

 

I'm not sure I buy her explanation of that.  

 

 

Dammit Clov listen this time ok!

By the red I was saying yes he said he peeked her, but he wasn't the only one. That's it, plain and simple.

 

 

Like, it kinda sort of fits, if she thought my entire argument was related to the fact Darthe peeked Tress, specifically - rather than just Darthe having a presumably correct peek on unnamed player third from left.  But even with that assumption, I don't see how she's in a position to say whether or not that's what got him shot as town.

 

 

 

Going back and forth on yours and Kaylee's tone in the whole discussion, can't decide whether your push is a reach or potentially a good catch, or whether her responses stand out to me as off or not. Whole thing's going in wary null for now. 

[Cass]

 

 

 

I have to run in a few min, but I plan on being available via phone for EOD.  Just in case, I'm going to place my vote now.

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

 

There's not a lot to go on with Verb wrt Sooh. Prior to voting he points out Sooh's OMGUS, mentions that he doesn't like Sooh's 'If I was wolf' defence and hinges strongly on the concept of AtE. The responses are all valid enough, and I can understand the sting of being burnt by AtE, even if I found the whole story about his AtE potentially just AtE. Feeling wary. 

 

/Snip

 

 

@ Sooh: I didn't feel it was worth responding to

You feel horribly condescending this game so far.... Don't think I like it... 

 

 

I'm not going to agree or disagree with this, but I am going to point out the OMGUS nature of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah guys think about this logically!

 

I tried to stir the pot D1 you shouldn't be looking at me!

 

Maybe I'm the seer, who knows?

 

 

These are almost verbatum from her post.

 

We can go ahead and may Sooh now. It won't actually do anything but you'll all get warm fuzzies from it.

By all means, go ahead. My only plan today was to give my team something to work with for later. That's all.

I intend to. You recognize that you're doing the opposite of what you should be doing as town, right?

 

Then enlighten me... I thought the purpose was to find tells as to who are wolves and not in this game. I've not been very successful in the past, so I'm trying out something new. I am Town in this game, but I do understand your push on me. At this point I feel you pushing me almost makes you the clearest Town around. Like I tried saying in my post, I'm more wary now of the people who DON'T have me as wolf...

 

If you notice I still haven't placed my vote. I don't have anywhere clear enough to put it yet. If I was wolf, would I care? Or would I just place my vote somewhere and see if it would stick? 

 

 

I followed your post until the bold, which I don't like.  I've used that defense as a wolf plenty of times, and have seen others do it as well.

 

I agree with all of this except 'I followed your post until'. 

 

 

 

 

My major issue with Sooh is that my heart really wants her to be a villager and I'm finding that harder to ignore

 

This might make no sense to ANYONE but I am going to be extremely disappointed if she's a wolf and this was her approach to "clearing herself" as a wolf - abusing guilt tactics and emotional manipulation. So I want to believe she's a villager so I don't have to deal with that disappointment.

 

But that wanting doesn't make her a villager, and that's where my heart is torn.

 

I took something Mish told me once to heart - "play a beautiful game", because there's no pride in winning a game dirty like that.

 

I want to expound on this for a minute.  I play on JN as well, and I know you're familiar with a player named the Ape there - he repped JN in the Champs games last season.

 

Some time last year, I was in a JN game and was a villager.  I had Ape as a major wolf read, and was actively pushing for his lynch.  His responses made me more and more sure of my read, and I got a little excited about lynching the biggest loud mouth on the site, lol.  Well, once I stepped up my campaign, he snapped and lashed out hard with AtE.  Very hard.  He went into how he snapped at his wife because of the game, yadda yadda.

 

Needless to say, I immediately dropped it and actually cleared him as a result.  I know you're not doing that here, but I'm making a point (that I'll get to in a min).  I said that he would never do this as a villager for the same reasons you gave above - playing clean and using those emotional tactics and the disappointment I'd feel if he did it.  I was not willing to accept he could be a wolf, and dropped my campaign.

 

I ended up dead not long after, and wolves ended up winning the game.....and he was a wolf.  I was so pissed at that moment that I almost quit playing on JN altogether.  It still stings to this day, and for that reason I will be more than happy to lynch players that use excessive AtE.  Fear mongering is fine, whatever.  But AtE is lame.  No offense to you, Sooh, but I can't accept that you'd no longer want to be an active player because so many people are disagreeing with you.  I want you to be comfortable - we all do.  But saying this in-game is obviously AtE whether you intend it that way or not.  Due to my own experience on it that I've just explained, I'm going to not feel bad at all voting you towards EOD.

 

I'm not voting yet, because I still could be persuaded to vote Cass or Wombat.  Cass due to what I was talking about in my last post, and Wombat from the mini case I made on him earlier today.  Those 3 are my WTL pool for today, with the added caveat that I highly doubt Sooh & Cass are w/w.

 

AtE about AtE?

 

 

 

 

 

How is Verb's anecdote AtE?

 

 

It's potentially not. I'm just wary because his vote on her hinges a lot on it (ie. he didn't really contribute a lot else wrt Sooh before his vote).

 

Basically reads like 'I'm voting Sooh because she's using a lot of AtE and I've been traumatised by AtE in the past'. 

[Andrej]

AJ, can you give specifics as to why Dice is in your bottom 4?

 

Mostly because I have other people as stronger town reads right now. There are some things I've liked about Dice and others not so much.

 

Pros:

 

1) I like the way he responded to Clov and Cory. The tone read like town!Dice but I would need to see more of that moving forward.

 

Cons:

 

1) One of the quieter players. I know he has reason and normally isn't the most vocal or regular poster in most games but a Dice that fades into the background makes me nervous.

 

2) He was early and fast on the Sooh wagon when she first initially started taking heat

[Leelou]

Leelou, unless I missed it, you didn't answer my question. Why are you town reading Verbal? I'd like you to explain.

It was the way he was posting. He seemed to be scum hunting. I would like to see him vote this phase though. 

 

Because if I recall in your read list all you did was say he was sexy or w/e. Now you have a really weird habit of making these comments in your read lists when you're scum. Like when we were scum together you said I was pretty in your read list. And there's a second instance you did it again in some game I was spectating. I'm trying not to let it color my read of you, because I do think you've been playing a pro-town game so far. 

 

In any case, you read Verbal well and I'd like to know the specifics of why you are town reading him.

 

I have a really weird habit of saying whatever pops into my head when making reads list. When I said you were pretty, that is the only thing I listed. I listed my reasons why first in this game. 

[Cass]

 

 

You could've just answered yourself...

 

I intend to, just can't yet.

 

Okay, Yates just said I'm good to do this, so here is everything from my PM's with Seph I've said IRT to Cory's meta.

 

(In response to the possibility of Cory making his early seer cover post as mafia)

 

"Cory is probably the second best mafia player (the alignment, not the game) on this site and knows his town meta exceptionally well.  That is to be annoyingly helpful.  He's good enough to make those kind of posts as mafia as a way of saying "I have a field of Towniness growing, look at how vast and plentiful it is!".  

 

The act, itself, WAS protown.  But given who it was, it's not clearing by any stretch.  I have no intentions of voting him right now."

 

(This was actually in regards to Cass, but references the tendency Cory and I have to disagree with each other early on)

 

"The readlist Cass just posted makes me think I'm reading a different game than her.  If it was Cory, that would be par for the course and he would be locktown.  But she's not Cory, so I'm concerned.  I'd like to give her some town points for reasonable skepticism on people (Darthe and me, mainly) but she has a lot of experience faking it from what I've seen."

 

(In regards to whether Cory would make that "Sorry I'm not dead guys" post as town)

 

"Yes.  What tipped me towards him being mafia in that game (far, far too late) was how completely over the top he was about getting NK'ed DURING THE NIGHT PHASE.  In hindsight, it was obvious he knew that he wasn't being shot.

 

I guess the best key I can give to reading those posts is look at how much dramatics does he mix with the ego?  More bravado, less emo, and I'm inclined to think town.  If he's just flailing like his death and the town's failure is inevitable, I would lean mafia.  But I'd also be lying if I said I'm confident on this meta read, either."

 

 

Point to consider: How are you ever going to read me Town if I'm not allowed points for reasonable skepticism?

 

WRT Cory - So where are you at?

 

Tthe first point does not help me feel more comfortable about his alignment this game.

The last point you seem to be contradicting yourself/my own perception of Cory's post with the bold. I read his post as emo, not bravado and that made me think probably Town. Am I wrong? Can't tell if you're saying he looks overall suspicious here or not.

[Andrej]

AJ I appreciate your response. My paranoid side is telling me you might be a bit too agreeable and possibly trying to butter me up, but I can't decide either way until I take a closer look at your overall content. i'm not sure how I feel about you dropping seer cover to move Verbal to your POE pile. I can see the necessity of it if your opinion on him really did shift and it's true that if Verbal is scum your seer cover is blown anyhow.... But I think it was a tad premature seeing as Verbal has yet to respond to my ISO and consequent question. 

 

i dunno. Anyhow, I will comment more later after I have coffee.

Maybe a little premature but I don't think I could've really responded to you constructively after reading it all over myself and continuing to play like I had a town peek on him.

[Kaylee]

Cass, he didn't catch me because there's nothing to catch. I'm town.

 

I was getting upset because he originally was saying that I had to check to see who Darthe spewed town before giving my peek.

 

1) The first reason that's wrong is what I've already explained. I liked, and agreed, with AJ'S D1 thought about holding peeks until EOD. Since I had already said that I felt I didn't need to repeat it again beginning of D2 when I said I'd wait to reveal it. I put Tress as green. Regardless of the fact I forgot to hit post when I typed that I liked her reads I had her a green. Then when I got the news about my mom I decided to reveal after all and put her to a blue read.

 

Now, if I had not had Tress as a green right away, then I could maybe see where he's going with this push.

 

2) Why would I, as a wolf, say I'd wait then turn around and say my peek was Tress? That draws me in the light like it has. It would've been better to say I peeked a different name off my green list.

 

 

Believe me or not but what I said is what happened in point 1.

 

Clov later changed the argument to being that I chose Tress and that it was seer cover, but that wasn't his orignal push.

 

Also, Wombat chimed in after I explained what happened and pushed that it wad the seer cover thing. Doesn't make me feel better about him b/c at that point I had already explained that the original push was something different.

 

As for why I chose Tress, i did like her reads and wanted to know if she was town. (Oh look, a shiny!)

 

That was for Tress btw, an inside comment she'll get.

[Cass]

 

@ Wombat - Ok ta. What is DADV? I get that it stands for Dead Air Dead Villager

sticky the acronym list!

but what does it mean, and if it's not obvious once you understand the meaning, how does it apply to to the votes by Verb and AJ?

 

 

It doesn't apply 100% but I was saying I thought they may have locked their votes in early on a townie and then jetted.  But that was mainly just spitballing alternatives to my primary theory which got shot down by the Sooh flip.

 

 

This is what it looks like to me. Why doesn't it apply?

[Cory Caboose]

Leelou: if there weren't a lot of players playing well and being adept villagers AJ would be much higher in my PoE. I still think he's villager but he remains someone that is clever enough to be a wolf. He's not really in my "immediate lynch list" though and out of the ~5 people in my main PoE he's one of the ones I'd pick out as a villager if I had to tighten it

[Cass]

Cass, he didn't catch me because there's nothing to catch. I'm town.

 

I was getting upset because he originally was saying that I had to check to see who Darthe spewed town before giving my peek.

 

1) The first reason that's wrong is what I've already explained. I liked, and agreed, with AJ'S D1 thought about holding peeks until EOD. Since I had already said that I felt I didn't need to repeat it again beginning of D2 when I said I'd wait to reveal it. I put Tress as green. Regardless of the fact I forgot to hit post when I typed that I liked her reads I had her a green. Then when I got the news about my mom I decided to reveal after all and put her to a blue read.

 

Now, if I had not had Tress as a green right away, then I could maybe see where he's going with this push.

 

2) Why would I, as a wolf, say I'd wait then turn around and say my peek was Tress? That draws me in the light like it has. It would've been better to say I peeked a different name off my green list.

 

 

Believe me or not but what I said is what happened in point 1.

 

Clov later changed the argument to being that I chose Tress and that it was seer cover, but that wasn't his orignal push.

 

Also, Wombat chimed in after I explained what happened and pushed that it wad the seer cover thing. Doesn't make me feel better about him b/c at that point I had already explained that the original push was something different.

 

As for why I chose Tress, i did like her reads and wanted to know if she was town. (Oh look, a shiny!)

 

That was for Tress btw, an inside comment she'll get.

 

Thanks for the extra explanation. I think I mostly understand/agree with where you are/were coming from and until something else stands out about either of you I'm still reading you the more likely Town. Not sure what this means for Clov.

 

I didn't see the bold as overly suspicious when I re-read and re-read, fwiw, I saw it as him developing his suspicion on you and I don't know if that's alignment indicative either way. Wombat I'll have to go back and look at later on, thought he was just explaining SHC but it will be interesting to read to see if you have it right.

 

How many shiny inside comments does Tress have??

[Nynaeve]

Why not v/v? Because of how she defended by attacking. This is probably where you folks are hung up with me - my interpretation that this was not likely. The whole situation left me with thinking there was a wolf there. I went with Sooh, but if she flipped town I had it in my head that I'd be wrong on Sooh and therefore it would mean I simply had the wrong player as wolf. So I also had Cass in my WTL, but based mostly on what I just explained.

 

I disagree personally. I admit that I haven't played with Sooh up until now, but when I mentored Sooh she was coming off mostly null to other players. In one game of hers when she got ran up as seer (where I was Cass' mentor), she came across scummy through the game. And I've seen pretty much the same here. She seems of the scummy townie variety.

 

Darthe was characterizing Sooh's initial play as pure townie. Cass thought his push then was based on false reasoning from her experience with Sooh so I can understand her reaction to it. Whether it was white knighting or not, I can't know for sure. Maybe. Maybe it was town on town violence all around. What bugs me about it is that you haven't really bothered bringing up other issues with her content. This is all you're latching onto and imo it's pretty weak.

[Nynaeve]

 

Verbal, I still need you to explain the whole theory of why Sooh and Cass are not likely to be v/v in your eyes. It bothers me that you said you had to go back and read it to remember, considering you walked into D2 with a vote on Cass. It's really not a good look for you.

I don't have a good answer to why I didn't recall my reasons at the time and needed to reread it, so I won't try and come up with a bad one. I'll just say lolVerbal.

 

 

eh.... 

[Kaylee]

 

 

Cass, he didn't catch me because there's nothing to catch. I'm town.

 

I was getting upset because he originally was saying that I had to check to see who Darthe spewed town before giving my peek.

 

1) The first reason that's wrong is what I've already explained. I liked, and agreed, with AJ'S D1 thought about holding peeks until EOD. Since I had already said that I felt I didn't need to repeat it again beginning of D2 when I said I'd wait to reveal it. I put Tress as green. Regardless of the fact I forgot to hit post when I typed that I liked her reads I had her a green. Then when I got the news about my mom I decided to reveal after all and put her to a blue read.

 

Now, if I had not had Tress as a green right away, then I could maybe see where he's going with this push.

 

2) Why would I, as a wolf, say I'd wait then turn around and say my peek was Tress? That draws me in the light like it has. It would've been better to say I peeked a different name off my green list.

 

 

Believe me or not but what I said is what happened in point 1.

 

Clov later changed the argument to being that I chose Tress and that it was seer cover, but that wasn't his orignal push.

 

Also, Wombat chimed in after I explained what happened and pushed that it wad the seer cover thing. Doesn't make me feel better about him b/c at that point I had already explained that the original push was something different.

 

As for why I chose Tress, i did like her reads and wanted to know if she was town. (Oh look, a shiny!)

 

That was for Tress btw, an inside comment she'll get.

Thanks for the extra explanation. I think I mostly understand/agree with where you are/were coming from and until something else stands out about either of you I'm still reading you the more likely Town. Not sure what this means for Clov.

 

I didn't see the bold as overly suspicious when I re-read and re-read, fwiw, I saw it as him developing his suspicion on you and I don't know if that's alignment indicative either way. Wombat I'll have to go back and look at later on, thought he was just explaining SHC but it will be interesting to read to see if you have it right.

 

How many shiny inside comments does Tress have??

Two mostly. One that I use b/c of being Kaylee, and one other we share.