House of Cards

[Clovdyx]

Hi.

[Andrej]

 

 

Seems more like slight knee-jerk OMGUS to me.  I'd actually expect town Cory to go harder after those people, but given that he's been talking about trying to change his style for a while and that I haven't been playing much lately, I'm inclined to think that it's not alignment indicative.

 

Maybe. Like I've said I could just be projecting myself into the situation but the bite back tactic is something I would probably do more often as a wolf.

 

You used to do it a lot as town early on though.  I got a lot of false scum reads on you before I figured it out.

 

That's true enough but a different timeframe imo. You're talking about me reacting a few years in the past when I was still a beginner.

[Andrej]

Anyway - I'm officially late for work.

 

I'll be back around the time you people on the east coast are getting ready for bed.

[Cory Caboose]

Cory - don't hate me because I have an innate mistrust towards you after some of our past games. Monstr's Mafia Mafia game specifically, which I think may have been the last one we were in together.

 

In my mind based on our experience together I know that your ranges overlap significantly and you would probably react (or appear to) in similar fashions. The issue I have here is that underlying it all I get the sense that you have some pent up aggression that doesn't coincide with my view of you as a villager. That is probably the best way I can describe it, honestly.

 

You state that I'm almost certainly a villager here, and I'm not ready to call you a wolf. But allow me the time I need to fully flesh out what I need with you because the last thing I want to do is derail your game if my suspicions are inaccurate.

 

That's fine, it's just frustrating when I have someone getting @ me who I have a pretty solid village read on to the point where I am just helpless and can't fight back at them productively because lynching wolves and winning the game is more important to me than lynching people making poor reads

 

And maybe your reads beyond me are okay, I don't know yet, I don't even really know who you suspect outside of me/Wombat from that one latter post

 

And there's no way for me to combat "well cory is a really good wolf so let's make sure we suspect him for trying as a wolf" when I'm probably more well known for how hard I go as a villager to the point where the game is very real and stressful for me when I get significantly involved

 

It's also insulting because it brings out the POG underlying idea of "well if you stopped trying as a wolf you'd be easier to village read", which is an idea that hurts the game in general

 

Do you understand?

[Cory Caboose]

Hi.

 

Sup

[Cory Caboose]

[v]Cass[/v]

[Clovdyx]

Reading all of the Cass posts on page 20 right now.  

 

-I don't hate her explanation on Darthe.  Most of it seems to hinge around how he's pushing for seer cover, and his treatment of Nyn.  I can kinda understand why somebody who hasn't played this style game a ton would find it odd.  Her take on Darthe's red quote (about bad peeks spewing you as not the cop) is pretty accurate.  Regarding him towards Nyn...I kinda see how Cass wouldn't look his progression on her (Nyn).  Cass has poked Nyn for being "overly harsh".  That's one of the things I expect from Nyn as town, but if Cass is as bad as reading Nyn as she claims, I could see that.

 

-Don't like the reasoning for Kaylee at all.  Cass likes the question but points out how...straight forward?...Kaylee's being.  I don't think that's scummy.  

 

-I need to see some conclusions for post #400. 

[Clovdyx]

 

Hi.

 

Sup

 

 

Trying to wreck some people.  You?

[Verbal32]

 

I probably lied about that whole "I'll let you say and think what you want" thing

 

I can't stop the SNARK even if I try 

 

If you stopped the snark, I'd probably think your account was hacked, lol.

 

 

 

 

So basically what you're saying is that wombat at Clov can't be read?... seems awfully simplified, but ok...

 

I am saying they are both players who keep their ranges extremely consistent and are very difficult to read accurately on d1

 

Just how it is

 

 

This is true, but Wombat's scum tells become apparent in the mid-game.  I've been pretty successful in identifying them recently, so my confidence level there is high.  I have him as a light wolf lean, and it'll become very clear to me by the time we're ready to make a decision one way or the other.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll be lock clearing myself by lynching a wolf today, so you can scrap the tinfoil in advance if you're feeling smart

 

Guess I'll take the N1 bullet this time.

 

 

People need to fear you first, though.

 

O_O

 

 

SHOTS FIRED

[Cory Caboose]

Trying to wreck some people.  You?

 

Trying to maintain my sanity until I get out of work

[Clovdyx]

 

As of right now I lean as follows:

 

Town: 

Wombat - Good insight. 

Kaylee - Good line of questioning. Observant. 

Clov - Soulread mainly. May be way off.

AJ - I like his posts so far, though calling you town makes me scared after the last game when you had me completely duped.

 

Light town:

Cory - I do like most of your play. Your secret note to AJ pinged me though. Yes, I read it. 

Tress - Just a hair above null at the moment.

Cass - I like her reasoning.

 

Null:

Verb

Leelou

Bewbs

 

 

Light scum:

Dice - based on low content and bad vote. My feelings here may be affected by OMGUS. Can't promise to keep this read.

Darthe - call it a soul read if you'd like. I still don't like the feeling of open seer hunt you gave me. 

 

 So much for trying to make a stance early...

 

 

 

Anyone around to play with me?

 

Yes, I do.  Where you were in the thread (post/page wise) when this was made?  Also, can you talk to me about Tress?  I don't have anything to read her off of this game.  Unless she becomes a complete rage monster, I'm going to have a tough time with her.

 

 

(She understands this comment)

 

Fair enough that you're not buying it.

 

 

 

As of right now I lean as follows:

 

Town: 

Wombat - Good insight. 

Kaylee - Good line of questioning. Observant. 

Clov - Soulread mainly. May be way off.

AJ - I like his posts so far, though calling you town makes me scared after the last game when you had me completely duped.

 

Light town:

Cory - I do like most of your play. Your secret note to AJ pinged me though. Yes, I read it. 

Tress - Just a hair above null at the moment.

Cass - I like her reasoning.

 

Null:

Verb

Leelou

Bewbs

 

 

Light scum:

Dice - based on low content and bad vote. My feelings here may be affected by OMGUS. Can't promise to keep this read.

Darthe - call it a soul read if you'd like. I still don't like the feeling of open seer hunt you gave me. 

 

 So much for trying to make a stance early...

 

 

 

Anyone around to play with me?

 

I don't hate your reads. I agree with some of them. But I can't help but notice that your scum leans contains 2/3 people voting for you right now and that bothers me.

 

Like I said about Dice.. it's entirely possible that my read on him is affected by him voting me. He doesn't have a whole bunch of content yet, so I don't really have that much to go by either. Darthe I've been seeing as sorta scummy since the get-go. 

 

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

Not buying it

Not buying what exactly?

 

 

Surely I'm not the only person who found this completely off?

[Nynaeve]

-I don't hate her explanation on Darthe.  Most of it seems to hinge around how he's pushing for seer cover, and his treatment of Nyn.  I can kinda understand why somebody who hasn't played this style game a ton would find it odd.  Her take on Darthe's red quote (about bad peeks spewing you as not the cop) is pretty accurate.  Regarding him towards Nyn...I kinda see how Cass wouldn't look his progression on her (Nyn).  Cass has poked Nyn for being "overly harsh".  That's one of the things I expect from Nyn as town, but if Cass is as bad as reading Nyn as she claims, I could see that.

 

She has a thing where she perceives aggression and harshness as scummy. So by default she tends to think I'm scum. At least she did in the one game we played together. But she also mentioned to me that when she was spectating another game or two I was in, she thought I was scum as well (I wasn't).

[Cass]

Thoughts on Wombat re-read/ISO started last night:

 

TLDR:

Initially off, possibly less scummy as he goes along. 

 

- Doesn't provide a lot of explanations early on, sticks to a majority of 'off-the-cuff' reads/tone calls, feels deliberately ambiguous but in most cases is probably null;

- Does make sense when he explains things beyond frank opinion;

- Decent post count, but a lot of the early stuff was fluff/;

- Progression on Darthe potentially off - amount of interaction/questioning seems disproportionate to a legitimate town read, tone feels soft for the amount of questioning;

- Explaining more as game progresses.

 

 

 

 

@ Wombat:

 

 

Clov came in and made a joke about the scum team's identity, naming three players that haven't posted yet. You asked him if that was a soulread and then asked if it was a aussie theme. The whole post sounded fake to me and I did not care for it.

 

Darthe's opinion of how you usually play means squat to me. Other than mentoring you in a game, I don't think we've played together before so my focus is on your play in THIS game. And OMGUS FoSing me for allegedly sheeping Darthe (of all people! lol) is not making you look any better in my eyes. I also find it interesting that I'm getting FoSed but Darthe isn't even though, under your consideration, your content so far doesn't warrant it.

 

 

Any other thoughts you have to share?

 

Like this post.

 

 

Can you elaborate on what you liked about Nyn's post here, since you previously mentioned getting odd vibes from her and later mentioned not being down with a Sooh lynch because the wagon 'feels thin'?

 

 

 

WRT Darthe:

 

The progression/tone in these posts stands out to me:

 

Darthe looking surprisingly townish through p. 2.

 

 

 

Five pages in and I'm liking Cory, Darthe, and Kaylee for town this game.

 

Cory and Darthe for their willingness to explain the N0 peeks for the non PoG players.

 

 

 

 

 

My peek hasn't checked in yet.

I think we're better served following Tom the Tom's advice and waiting towards EOD to reveal. Players unfamiliar with seer cover may have troubles keeping that consistency through out the Day that wolves can see and cross them out as legit peeks. The less time there is for that, the better.

Think before you claim.

Maybe that pans out more in a long game, I'm not familiar enough to say one way or another with certainty. What I do know is that early peeks are more likely to be wrong which both increases the odds of clearing yourself as not the seer if you're mafia or of you being the seer if you got it right. It's all a strange dichotomy.

I'm confused. Are you saying that it's better to wait? I'm asking because it seems like at first you're disagreeing with AJ, then agree.

The bold sounds like you disagree with him.

Green is sounds like you agree.

Can you please clarify?

 

Kaylee for this.  A wolfie Kaylee does not probe this early, and ask questions.  Moving on.

 

 

Meh.  How is explaining mechanics a town tell?

 

 

- What was your town tell for Darthe, through p. 2? Did I miss something besides realistically null fluff/pushing and a lengthy explanation of mechanics? Why 'meh' here?

 

 

 

Surprisingly?

 

I earn my rep elsewhere and this is in the format of those other places.  I feel comfortable playing a smooth game for some reason.

 

Last couple times I remember playing with you, you were almost unavoidably scummy.  You might still have been hung over from rolling scum like 4969570673 times in a row though.  If the old Darthe is back, I will be very happy.

 

 

- What is 'old Darthe', 'unavoidably scummy' and the difference between the two?

- What is your actual current read of Darthe? I feel like a lot of your early content was highlighting disagreement with him :

 

 

 

 

Unlike the two above me I particularly dislike this post.  The bold looks like brushing off at best (and redirecting at worst, "why isn't HE in trouble for this type of posting") and your underlined appears proddy.  This sort of aggression is, albeit, typical Nyn stuff to try and shake people up but it's also generally a poor cover for actual depth in your play as a wolf imo.

 

 

Don't get this.

 

 

 

 

 

Disagree with your take about the underline being proddy.  I don't see how that's prodding her at all.  Your take on the bold is accurate enough for me, but I don't think Nyn brushing off a pretty weak push before the game has officially started is alignment indicative for her.

I should have split that up.  I used to scumread her for the underlined but no I recognize it's just Nyn being Nyn.  I simply happen to dislike it.  It's a bit harsh where she could be cooperative and get a lot further imo.

 

 

So if it's null to you now, why did you push her for it?

 

 

 

 

 

Wombat, what's the problem with *fake* villa-peeking a wolf if you're trying to create cover?  Putting out an informed decision eliminates the possibility of it being a random choice.  You see the inherent conflict? 

 

Not sure what you mean.  Villapeeking a wolf is very -EV for town imo.  Either the wolves will assume the person is not the seer and leave him/her alone, or they will kill him/her to SHC themselves.  The odds of it working out well for town are very low in those circumstances imo.

 

 

 

Pushed for the bold not the underlined Womby.  Besides, my policy is that it can't hurt to place everything that stands out to me on thread just to air it out.  Feels right.

 

Kind of the exact opposite of my philosophy but ok I guess.

 

 

But seriously Wombat why have you not directly quoted one of the wolfy Sooh posts and defended her already?  

 

Sooh is null to me atm.  I can see why Nyn didn't like her "soulread" comment and would want to push her for it, but it didn't read as scummy to me.  And I'm not going to defend someone while I'm still catching up.  I will say that as of right now, I don't really like the idea of a Sooh lynch as the wagon feels thin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wombat, what's the problem with *fake* villa-peeking a wolf if you're trying to create cover?  Putting out an informed decision eliminates the possibility of it being a random choice.  You see the inherent conflict? 

 

Not sure what you mean.  Villapeeking a wolf is very -EV for town imo.  Either the wolves will assume the person is not the seer and leave him/her alone, or they will kill him/her to SHC themselves.  The odds of it working out well for town are very low in those circumstances imo.

 

Sure there is risk inherent but occams razor man.  Everyone is aware that SHC doesn't really mean clear and everyone is aware that leaving poor cover is way more +ev than leaving no cover.  I think that making an informed decision on who you pretend to peek is going to make anyone who does that stick out as an evident fake peek.  I could be wrong but that is my concern and it seems to me to be a legitimate since random peeks and informed peeks are mutually exclusive things.  

 

 

Ok.  I see what you're saying there.  But it's also possible to just gradually start town reading an actual peek.  All in how you play it I guess.  I like to hold my peek until near EoD but I tend to play a lot of things close to the vest.

 

P.S.  Would you say this isn't even your final form?

 

 

 

 

But then in your more recent stuff (#552 sorry, linked cos not quoted from original ISO) you say Darthe pushing anti-Town angles isn't alignment indicative and that 'his other content has been good'.

Why question him so much/highlight disagreements if you both think his content is good and don't believe it will be alignment indicative? 

 

[Darthe]

[v]Tress[/v]

I will vig you and not even feel bad about it

[Cass]

Morning all, catching up/responding as much as I can in the next hour or so this morning, while I have access to the PC. Have skimmed to p. 30.

[Darthe]

it kills me that you guys are actually spending time discussing how and why Sooh is a wolf when it was obvious in the first few hours of the game and has been reaffirmed multiple times since

[Darthe]

Is it possible that Cass is just a red/ithi hydra?

[Nynaeve]

Is it possible that Cass is just a red/ithi hydra?

 

Maybe they spawned

[Clovdyx]

Fwiw I get what Clov would pursue that particular line irt to Cass as a villager

 

I just think he's also capable of doing it as a wolf

 

But I wouldn't describe it as inane - maybe foolhardy but not inane

 

Apparently I have never ISOed Clov before. New experience altogether... 

 

I have limited experience in playing with Clov, but shouldn't he be giving some reads in addition to asking everyone else theirs? He seems strangely quiet almost this game, and I'm not sure I like it.. 

 

Cory? Should Clov be like this?

 

 

Cory? Should Clov be like this?

 

Everything Clov has ever done is role-neutral, afaict

 

 

In any game of mafia

 

ever

 

Cory is probably town here.  I'm probably not playing the perfect game, but I still think I've done enough that he's unlikely to make these little jabs at me.  When he was mafia in 9-5, I think he put me as town exceptionally early, and he and I have a history of reasonable paranoia towards the other.  Tone here matches exactly what I would expect from Town!Cory giving his thoughts on me.

 

Also sounded pretty good when interacting with Verbal.  Verb is 100% town here, btw, and I will seriously kick anyone who pushes him in the throat.

 

 

 

Sooh's question (bolded) seems awful to me.  I'd be lying if I said the fact it's me probably doesn't contribute, but also because I thought I was one of the more vocal players.  IIRC I was second in post count when I signed off last night.  I obviously haven't done a whole hell of a lot TODAY, but she knows me well enough that I wouldn't expect that to surprise her.  My schedule isn't some big mystery.

[Clovdyx]

 

Is it possible that Cass is just a red/ithi hydra?

 

Maybe they spawned

 

 

Subbing out, Yates.  Seph's taking over.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I just meant that I haven't seen you really provide anything that I would describe as helping me to read you since you came back in today. Yesterday I felt I was getting more from you... Could you give me some current leans, please?

 

Verb is my villager peek so that goes without saying. Going off thread I think Nyn is on her villager game and I think Clov is too. Darthe is more likely to be a villager here based solely on numbers despite my suspicion of him earlier. Kaylee seems okay, she's making her observations that are accurate in the moment. I'd probably peek her just to confirm her because I think she's likely to make it deep into the game on the merit of not getting NK'd often in this roster and clearing her would be valuable later on in POE.

 

Cass might be light green for the moment. I appreciate Cass expounding more on her thoughts to show her perspective which I don't think she'd do as well if she were wolfing again.

 

Dice had his 'gut read' opener which I think by now I should probably consider more of a neutral movement at this point in our experience together. I'll need more from him. Leelou can fit into this category as well because I haven't seen enough from her to really place her outside of null. Tress would be here as well until she comes back more with her own thoughts.

 

I'm undecided on you atm. You've said some things that came across weird to me but I think you've made some decent posts as well. The one you talked about people ignoring / defending you as suspect could offer some valuable insight later on if you're a villager here. I agreed with some of your points.

 

Cory and Wombat I have as hesitant wolf leans for now. I feel like the way Cory is engaging those who suspect him is more in-line with how I would do things as a wolf although I admit that could just be my own personal projection on his play. Wombat is more of hunch I guess. I don't think any of the observations he's made couldn't be done as a wolf and I think there's some potential for distancing between him and Cory happening. Cory's post about them colliding as Mario Kart characters or whatever gave me that impression.

 

 

Bump Cory and Wombat up a bunch, bump Cass down, and this is a perfect post.  

 

I haven't played with Wombat in a while and pretty sure I've never played against him as mafia, but I like the points he's brought up.  I think he plays relatively similarly to me.  Nothing seems completely off basis, so that's good enough for me for now.

 

Cory, I think you are completely off on.  Cory's always taken it...not personally, necessarily, but...as a challenge, I guess? when I've pushed him in the past.  One game that comes to mind was the Blood Bowl game we did okay in on WF.  I was town that game, he was essentially town (pro-town secondary village), and I made several paranoia pushes towards him late in the game.  It wasn't a huge OMGUS knee jerk, but there was definitely some - rather understandable, because he did play well - annoyance.  

 

Why are people slotting me in the vig spot? I haven't really done anything yet, and don't expect much until tomorrow.

 

I think this is isn't a defense and that you answered your own question.

[Clovdyx]

[v]Dice[/v]

 

I'm not going to fight a lynch on anyone of Cass/Sooh/Dice/Leelou/Tress today.  I would probably put Cass a half spot ahead of the rest of them, just because I liked the effort she gave in explaining her reads, and I think they make enough sense coming from her POV to not light them on fire.

[Cory Caboose]

Was going to go swimming today but I figure I'll just fill out the rest of my notepad instead and hang around with you fine folks

 

You are all a detriment to my health and physique

[Verbal32]

Was going to go swimming today but I figure I'll just fill out the rest of my notepad instead and hang around with you fine folks

 

You are all a detriment to my health and physique

 

Sounds like you need to mod a sequel to your prior game about your health, heh.

[Cory Caboose]

Does He Even Lift II: Cory vs. Internet Yelling Games