House of Cards

[Andrej]

I'm going through Verbal's content. More so his early content and not all the spew he was laying out once it was apparent he was gonna get lynched. I'm not done yet but I'm gonna note that most of his initial content was going hard on Wombat (pun intended). And then he worked up the whole Sooh/Cass connection and while Wombat's train was building D2 he sat on Cass the entire time. Do you really think he would be trying to push a lynch on Cass if she was a teammate? It seems pretty apparent to me that he was trying to set her up.

 

He was prodding Cass here and there. The difference in how he handled her, compared to how he handled Wombat, is that he was actively trying to sway people to vote her which is why I think it's unlikely that they're w/w.

 

I see your perspective here but I want to add my input anyway. Verb proved that he already had a willingness to distance/bus his teammates as it shows with Wombat. The Sooh/Cass can't be v/v thing could just as easily be Verb showing knowledge of Cass's alignment before the fact. He didn't really push her wagon D2, did he? He just plopped down on it and instead the village were the ones who drove the wagonomics and got Wombat the wolf lynched. Parking a vote on a buddy is usually a pretty safe bet to do as scum in some situations. I just think the wolf team sort of let themselves get overpowered by the village and weren't able to drive a wagon elsewhere.

 

Working on Verb associations with others living players right now, but most likely voting AJ/Clov today.

 

Don't particularly like Clov's push at Kaylee yesterday, but feel like Verbal's addition there was wolfy and potentially meant to set him up. Need to go back and ISO both Clov and Kaylee since I haven't really looked at either of them much. Didn't like Clov's response to me D1, but still have a worse gut feeling about AJ based on D1/D2 and interactions I'm reading with Verb. Still need to look at Clov's vote on Sooh and see how it compares with AJ's progression.

 

This is where I'm at:

 

Dice

 

Bewbs

 

Kaylee/Tress

 

Clov

AJ

 

This is pretty much why you're going to remain a wolf in my eyes until one of us is dead this game. Your progression on me is terrible. Let's just completely disregard the fact that I have played a key role in finding and lynching two out of the three wolves. We literally just finished a game where we were wolves together and swept the other teams. At any point in that game did I openly attack or assist in driving a lynch on one of us? No. Instead I put in a lot of work ensuring the lynch was always outside of our group. The same premise would apply here. There were other directions that could've been moved in D2 to keep Wombat from getting lynched if I were a wolf. Yours for instance.

 

It's like you're stuck on me here and you don't really have any other direction to go in so you're just doubling down on outdated info from D1/D2. I notice now that Clov has conveniently dropped into your bottom 2 now that he's being raised as a suspect.

 

Clov voted me when he could've voted Verb and cased me. Felt to me like he was avoiding the lynch.

 

That lynch was inevitable with or without Clov's vote on it. I don't think it says anything one way or the other.

 

Posts involving Clov:

- On day one: The first time he addresses Clov in the game is to ask his opinion about something Cory said ("I will never be lynched this game"). ie if it's something he'd say more as wolf or town.

- Offers a read list (from townies to scummiest): Dice, Cory, bewbs, AJ, Clov, Kaylee, Cass. I find the placement of Clov awkward. Why is he there? Up until now Verbal has had ZERO interaction with him, except that one time where he asked his opinion about Cory. That really sticks out to me.

 

I would like to see this quote in the original context. Clov seems to be in the middle so I'm guessing that means he's null? If they had zero interactions up to that point having a null read 'fits' even if Verb is a flipped wolf.

[Kaylee]

Wombat's ISO and interactions: (I know Nyn did an ISO on him but wanted to do one myself)
 
With Cass:
- Agrees with those saying Cass's reads are bad, but he'd like to read more of her posts before calling her scummy.
- Says he understands where she's coming from in regards to Darthe, but says Darthe pushing something he (Wombat) thinks is anti-town isn't alignment indicative for Darthe.
- Says she has too many words for a null read...asks why so verbose.
- Quotes her reads list and says he doesn't read posts like that.
- Quotes her ISO of him and says Nyn's post had bite and sounded like town Nyn and says his odd vibes of her were gut, explains that he has a town lean on Darthe he just hasn't liked some of his posts, and explains if he disagrees with a post he'll point it out...that he's done that with mod-confirmed townies before.
- Quotes Cass and says TLDR versions aren't enlightening to him.
-Quotes a multiquote of Cass/Cory and says he likes it. Says that some people read players better due to real time interaction, but not him, and that he doesn't think Cass needs a mentor.
- Makes this comment "I feel like I lose mental power every time I read people telling Cass to try harder and then read Cass telling them that she is.  Obviously there is a disconnect here.  Someone needs to blink, and I think it needs to be Cass."
-Quotes a multiquote where Cass says she's got a town read on Tress, and I note that she was the second one to do so and I ask if Tress is shiny for her to show it. Womby second's that.

- Quotes Cass asking which of the Sooh votes Womby didn't like when he responded to Kaylee...he says mostly Dice, but Verb and AJ too.

-Quotes Cass talking about Verb's ATE comment sounding ATE and how it's AtE for Verb.

-Quotes Cass asking about Wombat's DADV comment and how it applies...Wombat says it doesn't work 100% but he thought they locked their votes in early on a townie and left but that he was just spitballing alternatives that got shut down by Sooh's flip.

-Says he got confused on her explanation of Verb's AtE...and thought his vote was scummy without the AtE.

-Further explains his DADV to Cass.
 
With AJ:
- Agrees with AJ on waiting to post seer cover. Says "Villapeeking a wolf if not cool". 
- Doesn't like AJ's post saying that his mild scum lean on Darthe and says "At this point in the game, why should a mild scum read have any influence on a mechanical/strategy discussion?". 
- Votes AJ
- Tells AJ that agreeing to disagree is lacking at DM these days.
- Quotes AJ and Cory talking about lynching a wolf, (Cory said he'd lynch one and AJ said he hoped Cory would clear himself and that "Maybe I'm projecting a bit here, but I think the way you've handled your detractors is a bit wolfy. Verb/Clov specifically.)" Womby then asks how so.
- AJ explains.
- Quotes AJs response and says that he'd expect town Cory to go harder after those people, but feels it isn't alignment indicative since Cory said he was changing his style.
- Quotes AJ saying that he could be projecting himself into the situation, and Womby says AJ's done that as town, with bite, and been falsely scum read for it.
-Quotes Lee's response to why she finds Womby scummy and asks if there's something wrong with him scolding, says feels Sooh is scum, Tress is scummy/inactive, and that AJ is sketchy.
 - Votes AJ and tells him to get off the sidelines.
-Quotes AJ saying Wombat could be a wolf. Says he feels the same about AJ...says either AJ's a wolf or they need to get on the same page.
-Quotes AJ's high % to be a wolf list and replies with: "Batting .500 max here.  More likely .250 imo.  Your D-Backs namesake is raking on my fantasy team btw.  Get on his level or concede?:("

-Doesn't know what to tell AJ if he doesn't feel Wombat's working hard enough. Says he feels like he's putting in a lot more effort than he should and that he doesn't have as many scum reads as he'd like but he's been town hunting more than usual...says of AJ's POE Cass is most likely scum at 3 to 1 odds over Cory...says that AJ, Cass and Dice are his top three atm and if AJ's town he needs to show it.

-Quotes AJ asking why he called Dice, AJ and Cass his top 3 and fluid...Wombat responds by saying his town reads are stronger than his scum reads and Sooh's flip muddled things....he explains why and says he does feel he's a flip away from solving this.

-Hates AJ's VT claim.

-AJ asks who Wombat's suspects would be...he responds by saying his reads havent changed and that it's unlikely that he's wrong on all his top suspects so he doesn't see why he should pretend that they're town.

-Says that Cory and AJ cooked up the ploy against Wombat to get him lynched. 
 
With Clov:
- Posts 2 of Clov's post where Clov is joking about the Dice, Cass, Wombat scum team early game and calls him town.
- Says Clov is in his Clov pile...which he later explains is him being standard reasonable Clov. (So he was town, now he's just Clov).
- Is lost about Cory and Clov's Nintendo talk.
- Says Clov's mini-push of Cory is inane but overall Clov still looks like solid Clov.
- Quotes Nyn and Clov and ask if the 5 names listed were in his POE. (Actual comment/question in "") "One might go so far as to say that they are "in your POE" n'est-ce pas?"
-Ask Leelou "what's up" with her scum read on himself and Clov.
-Quotes Lee asks if it's weird that he doesn't remember Clov's pushes.
- Doesn't get why Lee is all over Clov for going after Dice. He feels the same as Clov in regards to Dice, and goes on to say why Dice shouldn't be town unless you have a peek on him.
- Quotes me saying I could go for either Wombat or Clov as neither are town to me he says 100% wrong. (implying a town peek on Clov)

- Quotes an exchange between Clov and AJ about Clov top town reads and pros and cons about each...Womby asks how anyone could have Clov as scum.

-Clov asks what Wombat didn't like about Verb's and AJ's votes on Sooh...says he (Clov) Didn't pay attention to Verb's but AJ's wasn't scummy enough to catch his attention, but he'll go back and look again just in case...Wombat responds by saying he felt like they waited until Sooh's lynch was defintely going down, that they didn't give much explanation, and that they looked like buss votes. 

-Clov responds (to previous point above) and says he's having a hard time seeing the angle for Mafia!AJ on it...Wombat responds by saying since everyone moved to Sooh it would've looked bad for AJ to stay on Cass, but says as scum he could've waited longer...but it's not a big deal since Womby was wrong about Sooh anyway.

-Says the fact that Cory is pushing for his lynch means Wombat's peeks on me and Clov are correct.
 
 
EOD 1:
 
Says I was his N0 peek, his top 3 scum are Sooh, Tress, Dice and he has an eye on Cass and AJ.
 
 
First reads list...was EOD 1: (town to scum)
Wwwwombat
Kaylee
Bewbs McGee
Darthe
Cory
Leelou
Clovdyx
Verbal32
Cass
Andrej
dicetosser
Songstress
Sooh
 
D2 Says to move Tress to Yellow then gives this:
Wwwwombat
Kaylee
Clovdyx
Songstress
Bewbs McGee
 
Not lynching.
 
(Clov was his fake N1 peek)

 

 

 

Out of all of this I see two flipped wolves pushing Cass...That alone would make me feel better about Cass. Given the fact that his interactions with her show there's not a lot of case or anything just furthers my good feelings on her. 

 

Overall not much to say to Cass...mostly "I like this post" or "I don't like this one" and so on. 

 

Overall liked Clov's posts and called him Town...had a fake town peek on him.

 

Not much that I noticed on AJ until AJ drops cover and claims VT...even then it's re-explaining reads to AJ then calling hi scum with Cory for the push on Womby.

 

 

 

[Nynaeve]

I corrected myself after that. Verb's only mention on Clov was that he seemed townie for going for Cory and that they mindmelded and that he never mindmelds with a wolf lol   Legit Verb should have been lynched for that post alone xD

 

The fact of the matter is that Verbal ignored Clov almost entirely.

[Nynaeve]

@AJ

[Nynaeve]

As an added note, AJ, I found that read list odd because Verbal was prodding you and going on about how people who were town reading were suddenly changing their mind. But then he puts you ABOVE Clov.... who he had an initial town read on based on garbage. But don't forget that he dished out this gem after it became rather apparent that he would get lynched. I REALLY don't want to drown in the wifom of it. That read list was designed specifically to screw with us, IMO.

[Kaylee]

 

I copy pasted Tress' ISO on Wombat, since he has a ton of content. I just left out his Clov mentions. Also bolded stuff that stuck out to me.

 

 

- Soft defends Clov against Hally.   

- Says Clov seems to be "standard reasonable Clov"

- Calls Clov's push on Cory pg 18 "inane" 

- Asks AJ to explain his statement that how Cory has handled Verb and Clov seems wolfy

- Characterizes Clov's push against Cass as "inane"

- Suggests Cory/Verb and Cory/Clov interaction as slight OMGUS, says he would expect Town Cory to go harder after the people pushing him but hedges on whether or not it's alignment indicative

- Helps clarify Clov's five names he would not fight the lynch as being "in his POE"

- Thinks 1 of Darthe/Verb/Cory/Clov/Wombat/AJ is mafia

- Responds to Sooh's reads list with Cory/Clov/Darthe as having maybe 1 mafia, Dice/Cass having 1 or 2 stating the "wolf trifecta" doesn't look too good to him

- Asks Leelou what's with her scum reads on Wombat and Clov

- Says he barely remembers Clov's pushes (Funny considering he pointed out two of his pushes his inane)

- Posts reads list:  Wombat/Kaylee as blue, Bewbs/Darthe dark green, Cory light green, Lee/Clov/Verb null, Cass/AJ yellow, Dice/Tress/Sooh orange.

- Doesn't understand why Leelou is jumping all over Clov re: his read on Dice, says he feels similarly about Dice and has him as a mild scum read.

- After start of D2 posts "not lynching" list with Wombat, Kaylee, Clov, Tress in blue, and Bewbs in green, says everyone else needs to step it up

- Says he still doesn't get Leelou's reads and asks if she's scum, says Kaylee is 100% wrong calling Wombat/Clov w/w

- Responds to AJ's potential mafia list of Wombat/Cory/Clov/Cass by saying he's batting .500 max, more likely .250

- Asks how anyone has Clov as scum

- Explains to Clov his dislike of Verb and AJ's votes on Sooh

- Explains further to Clov why he felt AJ's vote on Sooh could have been a bus vote

- Responds to Verb's Wombat/Clov thoughts with "Bleh. Not helping."

- Denies trying to push Kaylee with his explanation of SHC, reiterates he has her as town and thought Clov's push was silly

- States Cory is trying to imply he has a scum peek on Wombat, and states this has outed him as not the cop on the same day as AJ outed himself as not being the cop - says this was a ploy cooked up by AJ and Cory on their QT in the event that Darthe did not flip cop in order to try to out the real cop.  States that the fact that Cory is trying to lynch him implies that both of his peeks are correct and Kaylee and Clov are town.

 

 

 

TLDR, Wombat town reads Clov the entire time. Keeps nudging people to explain how they could possibly have him as anything but town. Keeps defending him. At the same time he keeps calling his pushes inane and silly. Could be buddying but could also be a scummate playing it very smart. I know distancing is the new rage lately, but you can easily be this blunt about defending a teammate to make people believe that you wouldn't be this obvious about it. If anyone could pull that off, that would be Wombat.

 

So basically....

Wombat - Null read on Verbal, Town read on Clov.

Verbal - Scum read on Wombat, town read on Clov.

Clov - Scum read on Wombat, town read on Verbal.

 

 

 

BOOM. Game over.

 

You beat me to it...and you made better sense of it. I was just outlaying what was said to/about them. (I'm saying I like this post and your conclusions).

 

 

 

 

Great points there Nyn. You're breakdown of Verbal's interactions with the three makes me feel better about AJ. Put that with the way Clov was pushing me yesterday and not voting Verb just makes him look that much more like a wolf.

 

That and he was also weird with me at the beginning when he was going on about me not giving him town vibes yet. Halli has been suspicious of him since.  Wombat also opened with me giving bad vibes. I think they might have tried to see if that could go anywhere. It didn't. And they both very soon after were loving on me since.

 

Could be

 

 

 

I don't have much of anything to ask you, really. I think I pretty much covered my concerns  over your content and your replies weren't terrible. Looking at you again with the context of Wombat and Verbal's flips and posts, I feel better about you and I think Clov is a lot more likely to be scum, since my ongoing conflict was between you and Clov. I also trust Cory's read of you, as well as Tress'. I think you're wrong about Cass, personally.

 

But.... we have plenty of time... if you'd like to talk to me about why you think Cass is more likely to be scum than Clov, I'm willing to listen. Though I'd prefer it if you also addressed it in relation to Wombat and Verbal's content. ie show me how the three being scummates fits together.

I agree with what you say here regarding feeling better about AJ and Clov looking worse.

[Kaylee]

As an added note, AJ, I found that read list odd because Verbal was prodding you and going on about how people who were town reading were suddenly changing their mind. But then he puts you ABOVE Clov.... who he had an initial town read on based on garbage. But don't forget that he dished out this gem after it became rather apparent that he would get lynched. I REALLY don't want to drown in the wifom of it. That read list was designed specifically to screw with us, IMO.

Not to mention that Tress and I had also originally had Verb as town and switched. He didn't really say anything about me doing it and left her off his list entirely.

[Andrej]

I don't have much of anything to ask you, really. I think I pretty much covered my concerns  over your content and your replies weren't terrible. Looking at you again with the context of Wombat and Verbal's flips and posts, I feel better about you and I think Clov is a lot more likely to be scum, since my ongoing conflict was between you and Clov. I also trust Cory's read of you, as well as Tress'. I think you're wrong about Cass, personally.

 

But.... we have plenty of time... if you'd like to talk to me about why you think Cass is more likely to be scum than Clov, I'm willing to listen. Though I'd prefer it if you also addressed it in relation to Wombat and Verbal's content. ie show me how the three being scummates fits together.

 

The game is probably going to come down to Cass/Clov lynches - which I'm fine with. I think your work has merit but I also think you're starting to look from the perspective the Clov is already confirmed scum when making the connections you are now. I know how it is though

 

Honestly I'm too lazy to go back and don't really have the time right now to pour through that content. I don't think any of the 'pushes' on Cass were ever that hard so ruling her out for that isn't wise imo. The wolves never really controlled a wagon at any point in this game, so Verb parking on Cass D2 isn't clearing by any means. It could've just been him waiting it out to see what else came available while also setting himself in the long run for 'voting' a wolf. Why Verb decided to distance/bus the way he did this game idk but that's him and not me.

 

I think individually Cass has been rather scummy herself. She's been late onto literally every wagon after it was already a foregone conclusion with essentially just a summation of what anyone else has already said. Her suspect lists have been pretty static throughout the game and the only changes come with players getting lynched/NK'd. There was also a weird and random ISO case on Wombat that came late D1, maybe D2, that I felt was really out of place and didn't understand what prompted it. There was also a lot of banter back and forth with Cory about how to be a villager instead of playing like one and finding/pushing suspects.

 

She has literally just been floating this whole game with her WOTs. She isn't even voting one of her bottom two at this point.

[Kaylee]

Ok I'll be gone for awhile as an FYI>

[Songstress]

I think I was pretty clear yesterday that I think Clov is the best bet for today.  I thought his original push on Kaylee looked more like he was trying to discredit her seer cover instead of looking for mafia, and his push yesterday was kinda weird.  The only thing that gives me any pause is that Wombat was so adamant calling Clov town leading up to his lynch - it looks like it could be a setup, but then it could also be intentional WIFOM.

 

If Clov is town, Cass and AJ are in the POE.  I don't think there's any chance whatsoever that Nyn/Hally is mafia, and I would be surprised if Kaylee was.  I don't honestly think it will come down to choosing between Cass and AJ, though.

 

[v]Clov[/v]

[Cass]

Ok, these are the notes I've got as interactions in the ISO that relate to players still in the game. 

 

Day 1

 

• Agrees with Darthe's list: (Town Tress, Clov, Kaylee; Bottom four Leelou, AJ, Bewbs, Sooh) 
• Repeats Clov's questioning of my read on Darthe ***More likely sheeping Clov for easy push than working together***

•  Agrees with Hallia that Kaylee's Town. Doesn't like Wombat's progression.

• Likes Nyn pushing Sooh *Using Nyn's push, Nyn likely Town*

• <3s AJ for having hockey reference in n0 peek Verb 'Won't even care if you are a wolf' -AJ replies with flying V ***Pocketing/posting for sake of interaction***
• Suggests my preference for explanations with Scum reads from Cory is misrepping

•  Links Sooh/Cass as 'not v/v'
• Asks Clov for interpretation of Cory - Clov replies____________ ***Pocketing/posting for sake of interaction***
• Pushes me for top three wolves even though I've posted reads 
• Really likes Leelou's list but move Clov up and Dice down. ***Doesn't specify where***
  (Town Kaylee, Nyn, AJ, Null Tress, Cass and Clov in PoE)

 

 

Summary

 

Kaylee and Nyn Town (consensus)

Cass scum (sheep Clov/easy push after heat for early reads)

Clov: Town to somewhere above Scum, disagreeing with Leelou's read

AJ: Bottom four to Town, hinging on Leelou's read

 

Interaction with AJ: Banter - ?posting just for sake of interaction

Interaction with Clov: Sheeping questioning of Cass, interpretation of Cory when Cory was unknown ?posting just for sake of interaction

 

Pushes: Sooh, Cass

Soft push: Wombat

 

 

 

Day 2

 

• Votes Cass 

• Nyn solid Town, invites interaction *** Is a swap from D1's early read***
• Clov is as close to blue as possible (due to mindmeld on Cory)  *** Strong stance to take on scum buddy... early reason to defend or follow?***
• Pushes Cass to respond/bite at vote 
• Provides crap logic for Sooh Cass 'not' v/v (asked by Wombat)

• Has no reason for not remembering logic

• Responds to Nyn questioning Leelou's Town read, 'I'm voting Cass' 
• Questions Wombat on arguing with Kaylee again ***

• STILL BOTHERED by Ape's Ate, snipe about previous scum at Wombat/Nyn (Wombat + Nyn discussing dramatic)
• Accuses Nyn of arming people with defenses, says 90% Wombat 5% Cass whole game ***Sooh #1 WTL??***
• Jokes with Nyn verbal bashing...

• Unvotes

• Hi AJ - worried switched read at convenient time (Verb taking reasonable heat from consensus villagers) ****No hard push. Opportunistic distance?****

• Votes Wombat 'angling towards all day' ****Only mention 'need to read' and 'Wombat chiming in'****

• Adds to AJ quote - we're missing another interpretation of you dripping cover: wolf switching on me and claiming VT to explain why you'll be alive another day and to drive mislynch on Verb.      
  Suggests bad decision as a villager, possible wolf/miscleared, unsure. **** Sounds forced****

• Responds to AJ question 'Any chance Wombat flips town here?' - Yes, but small, snipe mode. **** Sounds forced****
  AJ agrees Wombat snipe mode, says reason felt good about Verb early on. Questions about interaction with Cory ****overjustification for changing read?****

                       Verb reply Wombat more annoyed wolf than frustrated villager, suggests jerky as wolf/snarky villager 

 

 

Solid Town: Nyn 

As close to blue as possible: Clov

 

Soft pushes: Wombat, AJ

Pushes: Cass

Votes: Cass, Wombat

 

Doesn't mention: 

Kaylee (except to snipe at Wombat)

Tress

Dice

 

 

 

Day 3

 

• Don't make me mislynch because NK on Seer Leelou points at me  - Not a wolf, imagine my villager reaction (response to ?)
• Jokes at Nyn 90% sure Verbal is scum

• Jokes at Cass
• FoS at players who read him 'properly' as villager and then change tune when only a few other people decided they think I'm wolf 
  *** Later mentions Kaylee for same reason, unlikely to be partners?? 'Hmm' suggests WIFOM? ***
• Reads list/'Game solve': Dice, Cory, Bewbs, Tress*, AJ, Clov, Kaylee, Cass. (*Tress edited in in later post, moves AJ up)
  ***AJ green/centre despite yesterday's suspicion, Clov in bottom three despite being 'as close to blue as possible' D2, Kaylee, Cass bottom two. 
  WIFOM over too obvious with AJ? - KNOWS lynch, lolcatting begins, hedging between lolcat and making some 'decent' points in case TWTBAW/not lynched? ***
• No u at Nyn for 'If by some miracle you're town, you've played horribly' / for shame, Verbal. For shame. Better luck next time. 
• Lolcat
• Reply to Clov's big posts *** look at these ?distancing? ***   Cass wolf for Cory reasons, Kaylee wolf for switching read  *** (lynch plans for next day?)***

            Adds comments to AJ (I'm sorry/Yes) *** feels more forced***

• Interaction with Clov re tinfoil on Nyn *** Verb scummy, feels ok on Clov's behalf ***
• Snipe x 3 at Kaylee explaining change in Verb read, FoS percentages
• Responds to Nyn's observation of Clov's point on Kaylee following Town reads ***FoS Kaylee/Clov ?lolcat/WIFOM?***
• Corrected on Kaylee by Nyn ***unlikely to be partners***
• Pushes Kaylee/Cass as final wolves ***unlikely to be partners***

• Snipe Nyn x 3  ***unlikely to be partners***

• Snipe Kaylee again ***unlikely to be partners***
• Vote Nyn ***unlikely to be partners***

 

Nyn and Kaylee unlikely to be partners - WIFOM/snipes

Clov: Replies to Clov's case on him ?distancing

AJ: Adds comments at end of response to Clov, feels more forced.

 

Again no mention of: Tress, Dice. 

 

 

Not voting Nyn or Kaylee based on this.

Interactions with Clov and AJ both look dodgy. I get the feeling he's more likely to be using Clov for easy pushes than working together (Sheeped Clov on FoS/questioning me D1, Sheeped Nyn on push of Sooh, Sheeped Clov again on Kaylee) and he took a strong stance with Clov 'as close to blue as possible' early on D2. Interactions with AJ feel more forced/posting for sake of posting, with soft push D2 after Nyn points out AJ's 180 on read of Verb, still places AJ in null/greens/higher in reads list than Clov D3.

[Andrej]

I corrected myself after that. Verb's only mention on Clov was that he seemed townie for going for Cory and that they mindmelded and that he never mindmelds with a wolf lol   Legit Verb should have been lynched for that post alone xD

 

The fact of the matter is that Verbal ignored Clov almost entirely.

 

lol

 

Okay - the ignoring part is fair enough. I understand where you're coming from with that.

[Kaylee]

AJ you could just read what I put about Wombat..or click on Tress's ISO of him if you didn't want to go back and ISO him yourself. Three people have given one...Oh wait 4, Cass did one too.

[Nynaeve]

If Clov is town, Cass and AJ are in the POE.  I don't think there's any chance whatsoever that Nyn/Hally is mafia, and I would be surprised if Kaylee was.  I don't honestly think it will come down to choosing between Cass and AJ, though.

 

^this

[Andrej]

This may be angle shooting on my part but it was brought ITT so I'm going to treat it like evidence nonetheless. Within the spoiler is basically why I'm never voting Clov this game. I can't stop his lynch regardless if enough people vote him - but you guys are going to have to do it without me. If he flips wolf then that's my bad - but my heart will also be broken.

 

 

 

 

 

You could've just answered yourself...

I intend to, just can't yet.

 

Okay, Yates just said I'm good to do this, so here is everything from my PM's with Seph I've said IRT to Cory's meta.

 

(In response to the possibility of Cory making his early seer cover post as mafia)

 

"Cory is probably the second best mafia player (the alignment, not the game) on this site and knows his town meta exceptionally well.  That is to be annoyingly helpful.  He's good enough to make those kind of posts as mafia as a way of saying "I have a field of Towniness growing, look at how vast and plentiful it is!".  

 

The act, itself, WAS protown.  But given who it was, it's not clearing by any stretch.  I have no intentions of voting him right now."

 

(This was actually in regards to Cass, but references the tendency Cory and I have to disagree with each other early on)

 

"The readlist Cass just posted makes me think I'm reading a different game than her.  If it was Cory, that would be par for the course and he would be locktown.  But she's not Cory, so I'm concerned.  I'd like to give her some town points for reasonable skepticism on people (Darthe and me, mainly) but she has a lot of experience faking it from what I've seen."

 

(In regards to whether Cory would make that "Sorry I'm not dead guys" post as town)

 

"Yes.  What tipped me towards him being mafia in that game (far, far too late) was how completely over the top he was about getting NK'ed DURING THE NIGHT PHASE.  In hindsight, it was obvious he knew that he wasn't being shot.

 

I guess the best key I can give to reading those posts is look at how much dramatics does he mix with the ego?  More bravado, less emo, and I'm inclined to think town.  If he's just flailing like his death and the town's failure is inevitable, I would lean mafia.  But I'd also be lying if I said I'm confident on this meta read, either."

 

 

 

 

What need does Clov have to type all this in explanation to Seph regarding Cory's alignment/meta if Clov is scum and already knows that Cory is town?

[Nynaeve]

Yates wouldn't have let him post that if it was alignment indicative. I'm not giving it any importance *shrugs*

[Nynaeve]

To be honest I still don't really understand why it was allowed at all.

[Andrej]

H'okay. Agree to disagree.

 

Well, that's where I'm at. Probably not gonna be moving my vote but I'd still like to see Clov come in and defend himself - I won't do it for him.

 

I think a lot of you are giving Cass too much credit for being wordy - she made decent posts D1 when she was under pressure but since then she has basically faded and has no real direction in this game. Like I look at her posts and I just see text without driving force behind them. There's no will to push. She's just casing to look busy while the village drives all the wagons home.

[Andrej]

To be honest I still don't really understand why it was allowed at all.

 

I don't really either but it is what it is.

[Songstress]

It's an interesting point, and I have a feeling that if Clov is town, Cory is somewhere screaming at us to vote Cass.

[Andrej]

He's definitely screaming.

 

The least I can do after failing to read him this game would be to carry out his death wish and ensure that Cass isn't able to quietly make it to end game.

[Nynaeve]

It really doesn't matter. I already told Cory last day. Its either Clov and Cass or Class and then Clov.

[Nynaeve]

Cass*

[Nynaeve]

All I know is that I'm not going to clear someone over a PM that he was allowed to post. 

[Andrej]

All I know is that I'm not going to clear someone over a PM that he was allowed to post. 

 

Fair enough.

 

And I'm not going to clear someone over how a bussy wolf and a team without Day chat potentially handled each other.