[Basic] Lolcats: zOMGby Apocalypse - Game Over - Town Win

[Sili Quirrels]

btw i'm locking in nolder as town. i think i have his meta down.

[Sili Quirrels]

Tress, i'm not fully confident in my read of kaylee so maybe you could strengthen my villa lean with tress-like analysis? That would be good.

 

If people could tell me why Thane is town, that would be super nice.

 

Here are some notable snippets from his Iso:

 

 

 

In the following three posts it becomes obvious he believes Lilly will flip wolf a great share of the time, or he doesn't care what she flips. He makes no honest attempt to discern Lilly's alignment close to eod, and feels no concern over her impending death due to few players being around. Please note that Lilly hasn't posted at this time, so for me, these posts appear to be posturing because he knows she'll flip villa. Especially in regards to the bolded.

with a deadline this close, it wouldn't matter if i'd hammer now, result is the same. Just granting last words/defense

 

if you would have had a better suspect, you should have voted that player, build a case and convince others. Bit late now to say she might not be zombie

 

either way, she'll be toast in 3 minutes, unless everybody here votes someone else

 

 

Next are his notes.

 

 

I've bold-black parts I think come from wolves more often than villagers. I believe most wolves think in a way that makes sense to them as a villager's pov, but eschew their thought process to nudge mislynches. They will be more objective, take things out of context to justify a narrative, leave out villager tells, feel the need to find scum, and reduce their reads to one or two variables at a time.

 

Thane falls into these trappings. He leave out things that are villagery for people, and he reduces the summation of his reads to whether someone is easy to understand. He takes things out of context to justify a narrative.

Here's a copy paste of my little notes, in hope you can follow my line of thinking. 

 

Sili 29 hint at seer role…. Nah. Interaction leelou sili null

@Lily post 31: i use wolf too, because I play Loup Garou, classic werewolf (Belgium).

Dice post 47: didn’t say sili is mafia. Anybody could be at that time.

Kaylee 99: agreed, it’s game content. Personally, I doubt  GF

Page 7: faking night actions by sili and nolder, Kaylee pointing out no actions N0

Sili post 142: Pray posted twice at this time. Null, really.

Sili post 145: me as top lynch fav? Early D1… going the easy way?

Tina not voting Sili post 147… keep in mind

Doubt it’s solved D1, sili post 157

Kaylee mentions Sili town for trying scumhunt. Sili hard to read though

Post 161 dice goes after  sili… either true, or fake.. too early.

Post 173 Sili: amused or nervous laugh?

Lily follows dice a bit too easily at this point.

Nyn post 241: working on it

Nyn mentions dice, not liking push, post 243

Kaylee multiposting, pointing things out. Seems ok to me

Nolder comes in page 13-14, analytic. Seems ok to me.

Seer cover mentioned and discussed… personally, agree it would be better, but it’s not common on DM

Page 15: Pral votes Lily, out of nowhere. Explains shortly after, and makes sense.

Page 16: dice ‘defends’ himself, sounds reasonable. But, good player, still could be scum. Lily says ‘vote me if you think I’m scum’… not much of a defense. Wolf trying to brush off or townie not caring much?

Sili makes no sense in kittytalk…. ugh

 

To put all that in a line of thoughts:

 

town-ish: nyn/verb, Tina, Leelou, Nol

Null: pral, kaytress, sili, dice

zomb-ish: lily

 

I have Sili as null because, well, he's all over the place and starts to make sense to me after N1 usually. Tina's line of thought seems alright to me. Nolder... he does make sense, phrases well for people to understand. Don't know if he could as wolf/zombie, but we'll see. Pral has only one suspect, but... on the other hand, he posted more than he usually does D1. hmm... 

 

Lily, are you town and not caring that people vote you, or a wolf shrugging off in hope not to get too much attention? 

 

ps: it took me 5 hours to get this together, it's too busy at work. But, i'll try to be in more now.

Indicates he is concerned over being misrepresented, but not indignant. Thane clarifies anybody could be mafia *extraneous*, but doesn't follow up with any sort of interpretation of the post and simply leaves it at the obvious. Bad tone imo.

 

See my post after, in spoilers. It doesn't seem like you're reading very thoroughly.

 

 

Fwiw, I put the wagons in that order because I had villa vibes from lily and thane n0, and scum vibes from nyn and dice. I forget exactly why, and it doesn't really matter since most of n0 is a wash, but that's how it is.

 

Over the last two pages, I'm clearing Kaylee for her +ev villa reaction, Nolder for the immediacy of his tag-team, and Leelou because she responded how I expected her to from a villa PoV.

 

 

 

No follow-up, even though he says he should keep this in mind, and he never mentions it again even when he says Tina's thought process is 'alright'.

 

Why are you implicitly treating town cred. as if it were some sort of wifom? You should know better.

Reduces read to whether Pral makes sense or not, but fails to mention Pral refusing to give up other reads until later.

No depth here.

Usually you would have town read me by now. And to be honest, what I've said isn't hard to grasp. I've, in my own headspace, cleared 4 villagers because they are thinking like villagers itt imo. I might be wrong, and am keeping an eye on them just in case, but they're not lynchable to me. If you were truly concerned about my posts being hard to understand despite my volume then you would take more time to read my posts because it's not that difficult to read english. Unless you felt they weren't important? But then why comment on them at all.

 

I think the biggest problem here is all your leans are predicated on whether the person is easy to understand. You even go so far as to say it looks good for nolder he makes sense, even though nolder is actually a good wolf, you know this, and whether his reads make sense has no bearing on his alignment.

 

1.5 hours of sleep this night (after a totally awesome Korn concert, for which i won free tickets), no coffee in the world will fix this soon. I'll be around later to share some thoughts, first, i'm trying to survive at work. 

Keep in mind he says this and then disappears, and comes back with reductive notes the next day.

 

These reductive notes don't show reading comprehension.

 

He treats lily like he knows what she'll flip and doesn't care.

 

But isn't grounded enough in the thread to jump to any sort of conclusion.

 

 

 

 

Maybe Thane is a tired villager but I think his analysis is too lackluster, added onto the fact he's distant towards day 1's lynch and hasn't posted much content during down time.

 

To put more generally, Thane's thought process isn't as flexible as villagers usually are. I'm soul reading him as very brittle, like you crack his reads open and there's no substance there, as though he's not grounded in the thread. nb4 he's very busy and has no time, of course that alone isn't a big deal since he's been distracted with his job, but the types of things he notes is queer, and there's much less meat than I expected and far too many open-ended questions to appear like he's doing more than he is.

 

Plus he's made no attempt to get grounded since Lily's lynch, to my recollection.

 

[Sili Quirrels]

I would restructure the concluding statement if I could do that post over again. I posted prematurely.

 

ebowp - this is what's important:

 

there's much less meat than I expected in his notes and far too many open-ended questions to appear like he's doing more than he is.

 

Plus he's made no attempt to get grounded since Lily's lynch, to my recollection.

[Niniel]

 

Sorry that I haven´t been here today. My daughter had fever all night and now I have gotten sick too. I´ve been too tired to log on. Will go back and read from where I left yesterday.

Yuck that's lame. I haven't had the flu in a long time.

Try to get some rest and take care of your daughter.

Hope you feel better soon.

 

 

Thanks. My daughter is better but is coughing a lot. I´ve only gotten a cold so no fever for me. I´ll be better soon. I hope. We were sick last week too and then we got better but then it got worse. Strange. 

 

 

I think Thane hammered Lily while I was going through the thread.

That's a PR? I thought he was having a mental episode xD

 

Good to know lol

I wish you would post more, and more game related posts.

I'm currently taking care of both my parents so this is the level of activity anyone should expect from me. I did share the reads I have so far. And asked Verbal to take over when I'm not around. Kind of the point of having a hydra partner.

 

 

Okay.

 

 

I think Thane hammered Lily while I was going through the thread. 

 

That's a PR? I thought he was having a mental episode xD

 

Good to know lol

 

I wish you would post more, and more game related posts. You are usually a very good townie and I don´t feel that you have done much yet. 

 

Just skimmed her ISO - she appears to be firing thoughts out (and questions) in many different directions, and not focusing on any one thing.  I would normally say that is townie behavior, but I'm used to Tina getting into tunnel-mode (usually on me, lol) as a townie.

 

So I'll say that I'm leaving her in my suspect pile, but she's probably closer to my town pile than anybody else from that suspect pile....if that makes any sense.

 

I don´t have anyone to tunnel right now. I thought you would feel relieved. lol 

 

Me too, but instead I feel like that guy who was stood up at prom and just stands there awkwardly......

 

 

lol So I won´t get my flowers then?

[Nolder]

btw i'm locking in nolder as town. i think i have his meta down.

When I'm town it's usually pretty obvious (imo).

I have a terrible mafia game so that's usually pretty obvious too.

Solo is a bit better but still not as good as my town game since I get lazy and don't legitimately scumhunt.

[Thane Vakarian]

To frame the discussion, these are what I'm using as wolf tells.

 

Dice: sloppy emulation of town game. left field thought process, premature tunneling.

 

Thane: Lack of attentive criticism of players, passes off general criticism as precise, gives lily last words but with no intent to find out whether she's scum before he caps, (i assume to get cred. lol), and finally his pop-in at night, and then leaving right away without any sort of reads lists, even as he was drawing up notes throughout the game day supposedly.

 

Basically it's sleezy and he's scum, and he knows i knows so he's going to make this about me and him and thunderdome it, but I won't let that happen. thane is scum, and nothing I did this last day was scummy for me. I changed my mind at eod like I have a million times before because of new information like a scum suspect voting my other scum suspect in a nefarious way.

Sili, i appreciate how you're putting that much interest in me. I'd feel lonely in this game otherwise. But, seriously. aren't you doing right now what you have been accusing other people of in previous games.... going for the easy lynch? Who was it again who said i would be a better investigation target than lynch? That was you, wasn't it? So, i kinda disagree with the bolded statement..... I'm waiting to see who will still be standing when D2 starts, and will (hopefully) be around to give out my thoughts about the events.

 

 

Fair.

 

I should have known better, but I thought it was worth the try.

 

btw, as a note for the future, when there's only one strong wagon, that wagon is probably a villager.

Nothing remotely close to CFD happens here anymore.

 

Although we did used to see some last minute switches. Not anymore I guess.

 

Weeellll.... i tend to disagree on that.... but i could be biased.

 

actually sili Dice has been working and attend the scoring his daughters first baseball final. if you this is me lurking you dont know what lurking really is.You might want to consider that Pral is WAY more lurky then I am yet I note you arnt making that argument about him. Trying to get the one pressuring you off your back perhaps?

 

Also  a lot of people have lynched me over the years BECAUSE my thinking is from left field. get used to it cause thats me.

 

 

Thane  why dont i like that catch up list of yours?

 

 

kaylee you are giving me bad vibes. Show me you are town. Please.

It was made during working hours, and friday was an especially bad day. I don't really like it either, but it was the best i could do at that point. I'll see what develops and will share my thoughts then.

 

For now, my wife's quite sick, there are 3 kids roaming around and i need to tame them... i'll be on when i can, so leave me any questions, and you'll have an answer when i can.

[Nynaeve]

Got a few thoughts to share but I rather wait till day starts. Anyone knows when that's gonna be?

[Songstress]

Got a few thoughts to share but I rather wait till day starts. Anyone knows when that's gonna be?

Thread title says Monday at 11am Central Standard Time.

[Nynaeve]

Thanks Tress. I didn't notice the title had the deadline.

[Sili Quirrels]

Thane, you're not an easy lynch. And saying you shouldn't be lynched because you're too easy to push is scummy

[Nynaeve]

Well, I got a ton of things to do on Monday so I'm just gonna go ahead.

[Nynaeve]

So, I'm still feeling iffy about Kaylee.  Waiting to see what Tress bring to the table.  Pral's case on Lily was good, imo, even if ultimately he was wrong. Still nullish because he needs to post more, but he's leaning more towards my townie pile. Looking forward to see his overall reads to form a more solid read on him. 

 

As far as Lily goes, she did look shady imo. Kinda hard to tell with her when she's actually scum or when she makes weird choices as a townie. 

 

 

What I have noticed and kinda bugs me is some of Thane's posts where I feel he's abusing his tendency to get mislynched. This puts me in a bit of a weird position where I actually have to agree with Sili lol  I'll pull up the quotes to demonstrate what I mean.

 

 

 

we'll see if i still live eod, ya never know 

 

 

A post from early on in the game where he throws a 'we'll see if I even make it that far' comment. In itself not much but I remember that I didn't like the feel from this post. Anyone that played with Thane knows that in the past he got mislynched a lot. Hell I've brought it up myself in other games if I was townreading him. But him bringing it up himself gives me bad juju. Because it makes a perfect tool for him to use when he rolls scum.

 

Onward.

 

 

 

To frame the discussion, these are what I'm using as wolf tells.

 

Dice: sloppy emulation of town game. left field thought process, premature tunneling.

 

Thane: Lack of attentive criticism of players, passes off general criticism as precise, gives lily last words but with no intent to find out whether she's scum before he caps, (i assume to get cred. lol), and finally his pop-in at night, and then leaving right away without any sort of reads lists, even as he was drawing up notes throughout the game day supposedly.

 

Basically it's sleezy and he's scum, and he knows i knows so he's going to make this about me and him and thunderdome it, but I won't let that happen. thane is scum, and nothing I did this last day was scummy for me. I changed my mind at eod like I have a million times before because of new information like a scum suspect voting my other scum suspect in a nefarious way.

Sili, i appreciate how you're putting that much interest in me. I'd feel lonely in this game otherwise. But, seriously. aren't you doing right now what you have been accusing other people of in previous games.... going for the easy lynch? Who was it again who said i would be a better investigation target than lynch? That was you, wasn't it? So, i kinda disagree with the bolded statement..... I'm waiting to see who will still be standing when D2 starts, and will (hopefully) be around to give out my thoughts about the events.

 

Again brings up being an easy lynch. And throwing out another hopeful comment that he hopes he makes it to D2.  Aside from Sili questioning him he hasn't gotten any attention from anyone else.... so why bring up the easy lynch topic?  And if he's such an easy lynch, as he stated twice already, scum would be better served leaving him alive to get mislynched. So his woe about surviving the night is coming off really fake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair.

 

I should have known better, but I thought it was worth the try.

 

btw, as a note for the future, when there's only one strong wagon, that wagon is probably a villager.

Nothing remotely close to CFD happens here anymore.

 

Although we did used to see some last minute switches. Not anymore I guess.

 

Weeellll.... i tend to disagree on that.... but i could be biased.

 

We got it, Thane, you've been mislynched before. A lot.

 

 

 

Any Q's? shoot. (and no, that doesn't mean 'vig me')

 

Eh.

 

 

I recall that in previous games other people would bring up this topic when trying to read Thane. Him bringing it up repeatedly and without much cause makes me feel like he's playing an angle. If he was like at L-1 and people were pilling up on him without a real case I could see a merit in him bringing it up. Instead he's been dropping these hopeful wishes of survival and his tendency to get mislynched as if looking for sympathy and trying to pull off appearing like he's afraid for his life. He's coming off really phony. 

 

 

 

On another note, I didn't care for his posts before the deadline. I'll paste all the relevant quotes.

 

 

 

i wonder if Lily is around to perhaps comment on the recent events before DL.... i'll be checking regularly.

 

 

so, that puts Lily at L-1.....

 

Lily, you in?

 

with a deadline this close, it wouldn't matter if i'd hammer now, result is the same. Just granting last words/defense

 

Then why wait for 30 minutes for Lily to say her peace if you've stated yourself that it doesn't matter at this point? This makes no sense to me. He either thought she was scum or he didn't. Unless of course he wanted to come off like a hesitant townie and not a scummy showing up to seal the deal.

 

 

[v]Lily[/v]

 

it is unavoidable....

it is your destiny...

 

 

if you would have had a better suspect, you should have voted that player, build a case and convince others. Bit late now to say she might not be zombie

 

Actually, you usually build a case and then vote.  Unless of course you're making it up as you go along.

 

 

Sorry Lily. Least i can do is try to read who did what regarding your votes when D2 starts. For the moment, even if it seems a bit OMGUS..... did Sili last minute change his thought process in an attempt to seem more townish? he could well say 'told you she was normal kitteh' and get less suspicious looks on him.....

 

*saves thought for D2*

 

You forgot to add a 'If I make it to D2'. lol The 'sorry Lily' seems fake. And the FoS at Sili is bogus. Sili was on Lily till very close to deadline. If he felt that she was town, from a townie POV, then he absolutely should have unvoted. Saying that Sili wanted credit for getting off the train last minute is absurd imo. He was better off not being on that train at all if that's what he was going for. After all Pral made the case on her and the train was building. Sili didn't have to be on it. So I find this whole FoS lame. And I think that delaying to jump on the train the way Thane did looks a hell of a lot more iffy than Sili backing off towards the deadline. 

 

As far as Thanes's notes go... most of it didn't make sense to me. And as Kivam demonstrated in a previous game... scum can make notes too. So the set of notes are null at best.

[Nynaeve]

lol So I won´t get my flowers then?

 

I think you should be grateful you don't get your car keyed lol

[Thane Vakarian]

yeah, i get it, i get it. I'll be around when D2 starts, we'll see who gets nk'd and discuss later.

 

honestly, i'm just trying to get into the game. I'll hang my 'next-blackhoof' trophy in storage.

 

The way i see it, there's already 3 people willing to lynch me. Means i have to step up my game and prove you wrong.

[Thane Vakarian]

[Thane Vakarian]

having said that, i'll be back tomorrow to check in. Early bed... think the mrs. and my kids finally gave me their flu

[dicetosser1]

@thane   give chae a hug for me and tell her to hurry up and get better. We miss her.  and you arnt allowed to get sick either!

[Thane Vakarian]

too late, i'm looking forward to coffee and pills.

 

I'll try to go through the thread and get my ideas on people present.

[Sili Quirrels]

I think I'm at 60% confidence where it comes to you Thane. I'm willing to adjust my read if you give me a good reason.

 

Still, I feel like you not dishing out hot reads in spite of distractions and real life, is scummy. Am I wrong? I don't believe you're the sort of player who needs a lot of time with the thread to compose themselves.

 

And you keep promising you'll post more, but you didn't when it mattered. And your eod is ugh, as nyn and I pointed out.

 

If you're town, I want you to understand that I want to town read you too. I'm not explicitly against it. You just need to get me there is all, and in exchange I'll hold off on my deeply-engraved tunneling instincts.

 

Let's start with something basic. Who is your top scum lean and why? I'm sure you have some idea.

[Sili Quirrels]

I think I'm at 60% confidence where it comes to you Thane. I'm willing to adjust my read if you give me a good reason.

 

Still, I feel like you not dishing out hot reads in spite of distractions and real life, is scummy. Am I wrong? I don't believe you're the sort of player who needs a lot of time with the thread to compose themselves.

 

And you keep promising you'll post more, but you didn't when it mattered. And your eod is ugh, as nyn and I pointed out.

 

If you're town, I want you to understand that I want to town read you too. I'm not explicitly against it. You just need to get me there is all, and in exchange I'll hold off on my deeply-engraved tunneling instincts.

 

Let's start with something basic. Who is your top scum lean and why? I'm sure you have some idea.

[Thane Vakarian]

Top scum lean. That's a hard one. It's only a small game, and i haven't pinned down a number one suspect yet. But, from memory, i'll hand some thoughts on every player.

 

1. Sili: Hard for me to read, as always. Perhaps due to his post restriction, or otherwise, i'm lacking something i've seen before: Switching votes all the time. From what i recall, switched once to me from Lily... Also, this post here strikes me as interesting. Perhaps you could explain. Do you mean there's not a single wolf on Lily's train? is that as assumption, or knowledge?
2. Kaytress: Don't remember anything significant from Tress, so i'll go with Kaylee. Nothing she posted has set off any alarmbells for me untill now. Townvibes there
3. Thane: absent D1, did some catchup posting (which looked rushed). For past gameplay, can't blame anybody to see him scummy. But, i think it should improve nonetheless.
4. Verboobra: I get it that Nyn points out my past and the way i point it out, and perhaps she's annoyed by it. FTR, this was a joke, ya know I'll prove you wrong otherwise then. Like i'm trying to do now. Nyn is a dangerous player, hard to read for me, and i probably own't be able to tell if she's wolf or not. This post here from Verb sticks at the back of my head: said he'd hop on the train, but unwilling to put her at L-1 here. It seems a bit contradictive... or too careful? Suspect.
5. Leelou: did you ever reply to this question? Didn't find an answer anywhere, and i'm curious. Why vote Pral and switch to Lily? I don't even find anything remotely indicating why you voted her as scum.... Suspect

6. Tina: Ah yes, Tina. Ok, i'll admit i have a hard time reading her every. single. game. we're in. Here, nothing stands out too much, she's in my most likely town pile for now.

7. Dice: I see some actual gameplay. Good, good... more like that would be awesome. Not setting off any alarmbells for now, but not cleared either. Null at best.

8. Pral: nothing much to go by. i'd love to see him more active. Lurky Pral is impossible to read. Null...

9. Nol: Something that stuck with me mainly is this post from him. Up untill that post, i had a town vibe from him. Here, i wonder if he just points out something obvious as town, or tries for more towncred. Post like this kinda bug me. Suspect.

10. Lily - Vanilla Innocent Kitteh - Lynched Day 1

[Sili Quirrels]

More like it seemed to be villager-driven with a village majority.

[Nynaeve]

town-ish: nyn/verb, Tina, Leelou, Nol

Null: pral, kaytress, sili, dice

zomb-ish: lily

 

 

4. Verboobra: I get it that Nyn points out my past and the way i point it out, and perhaps she's annoyed by it. FTR, this was a joke, ya know I'll prove you wrong otherwise then. Like i'm trying to do now. Nyn is a dangerous player, hard to read for me, and i probably own't be able to tell if she's wolf or not. This post here from Verb sticks at the back of my head: said he'd hop on the train, but unwilling to put her at L-1 here. It seems a bit contradictive... or too careful? Suspect.

 

Two days ago you seemed perfectly capable of putting a read out there for my slot. Enough to put me in your townish pile. Now you're saying it's hard for you to read me and you don't know if you'll be able to do so? .... how about you tell me how I made it to your townish pile back when you made that post two days ago. Your notes don't really indicate it from what I've seen... at least not in any coherent way.

[Leelou]

I don't like Thane's listings. 

 

I think I spoke enough about Pral, Lily and Kaylee throughout the day. I was uncomfortable with Lily voting as early as she did, it was out of character for her. Pral, major lack of content. 

[Thane Vakarian]

 

town-ish: nyn/verb, Tina, Leelou, Nol

Null: pral, kaytress, sili, dice

zomb-ish: lily

 

 

4. Verboobra: I get it that Nyn points out my past and the way i point it out, and perhaps she's annoyed by it. FTR, this was a joke, ya know I'll prove you wrong otherwise then. Like i'm trying to do now. Nyn is a dangerous player, hard to read for me, and i probably own't be able to tell if she's wolf or not. This post here from Verb sticks at the back of my head: said he'd hop on the train, but unwilling to put her at L-1 here. It seems a bit contradictive... or too careful? Suspect.

 

Two days ago you seemed perfectly capable of putting a read out there for my slot. Enough to put me in your townish pile. Now you're saying it's hard for you to read me and you don't know if you'll be able to do so? .... how about you tell me how I made it to your townish pile back when you made that post two days ago. Your notes don't really indicate it from what I've seen... at least not in any coherent way.

 

i've read through the thread a few times now, with more sleep and more painkillers. This may or may not flatter you, but the first bolded part is absolutely true. i'm relying on my (wether or not present) ability to figure out Verb. Especially his EOD comments made me wary. So, yeah, a lot can happen in two days.