[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[WWWwombat]

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

[Kivam]

Des - stop and think this through for a minute, and I'm backing completely out of game mode and into friend mode here.  Unless you really think everyone who is saying you're playing sloppy/wild is scum, there is at least one townie saying it (I know of one for certain ).  So it's not [just] scum trying to discredit you (the "just" because if you are town and did get unreasonably lucky, that's probably there too) - it's an accurate, objective reaction to your play.  You are currently playing like a young John McClane, the in-his-prime Optimus Primate, poo-flinger extraordinaire, combined with Vic's emotional breakdowns.  It's a really, really bad combination IMO (again, I like you as a human being and am not saying this to be insulting or hurtful ... I think you need to take a step back, breathe, and consider whether the critiques have merit and you should change your playstyle up a bit.  Your call, of course, but that's my $.02)

 

Wombat you're insulting me more than most here- why do you suddenly care about me being upset?

AGAIN- if anyone was actually comprehensively analyzing my points, and telling me where I might be wrong here, or even seeing if I'm coming from a scum POV, it would be one thing.

But everyone (besides Yates maybe) is treating me like "crazy ol Despot" who doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't know how to scumhunt. Quite infuriating.

 

[Thane Vakarian]

Cass ninja'd Wombat, well done

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Meh, you did kinda imply that Cass was getting hot and bothered. Of course, you also implied that someone else was writing her posts =S

I openly stated that Cass (or mystery author) seemed passionate about supporting Des. If Des was the author, this motive would match with his behavior. If another player wrote the post, it's a frame-up of Des, and Yates is in a perfect position to do that.

Acting like a newer player isn't being trusted to write her own freaking posts is extremely disrespectful, and both scummy AND underhanded on your part.

 

Frankly I despise that people actually seem to hold you in such high regard considering your propensity to be so incredibly disrespectful to other players

[WWWwombat]

Cass ninja'd Wombat, well done

 

Sick xpost imo.

 

FWIW, I AM OPEN TO A DPR LYNCH

[hazelkrs1]

@Kivam: no, I don't think everyone that is discrediting me is scum. I think they're just ignoring me because I've been wrong before when I've tunneled, so they think I'm wrong again, in spite of so much evidence indicating the opposite.

 

THAT'S why I'm frustrated.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Cass ninja'd Wombat, well done

Sick xpost imo.

 

FWIW, I AM OPEN TO A DPR LYNCH

Prove it

 

##[unvote]

 

[V]##DPR[/v]

[Cass]

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

 

 

*shock horror*

You mean I'm Town???

[Sili Quirrels]

I'm just gonna come right out and say it now. And I haven't even finished reading all the posts.

 

DPR and Sili - I think you're scum, and that your combined attack on me and my ability or lack thereof to play this game as a total noob is a low, but potentially pretty/very clever attempt at playing on people's uncertainty about me because I'm a noob.

 

There is no reason for anyone to trust me simply on what I say here - and therefore, me replying to each and every one of your personal attacks against me and my ability/implied inability to play would be pointless.

 

I'll admit I almost fell into that trap.

 

But then I remembered: This is a game. I like to win. The way I understood things when Monstr and Dice explained them to me was that aim of the game is to find wolves if you’re town, and create them if you’re not. If I’m town and I’m making you look wolfish … then, well, maybe it’s because you’re looking like a wolf…. 

 

Because, apparently, according to you, my gameplay should not be up to the standard where I could be wolf and making you look wolfish/playing the game that well.

 

You're contradicting yourselves and it totally screams of wolf.

 

 

 

And, FYI EVERYONE - NOBODY BUT ME IS CONSTRUCTING MY POSTS! 

I have like no part in what dpr's doing. all i offer is hard truths, and your reads are naive. and your push on me is irrational and rigged with confirmation bias. it's gotten so out of hand i don't even know where to begin in refuting it, so i don't.

 

and no, i don't think you're scum because of it. i think it just means you're new >.>

[WWWwombat]

Des, let's say I have 2 bullets.  Who should I shoot?

[Songstress]

K, so.  

 

Yesterday was a big black hole of fatigue and fuzzy head.  I've been doing most of my following along on mobile, and I'm positive I've missed some pages or partial pages in there because I've seen things quoted that I don't remember reading.  I won't have time until the weekend to do a full re-read, and it'll be more useful after a few flips anyway, so I'm gonna try to grab a few quotes that I remembered wanting to respond to as I read them and get a semi-explained reads list out there.   A lot of my early reads are gut feelings, but after almost 3 years of playing I've figured out that my gut feelings normally CAN be backed up by evidence when I have the time and motivation to go back and do ISOs.  My thread recall is pretty much crap since I stopped doing the Giant Spreadsheet of Doom, but the impressions the individual posts leave accumulate into a nebulous read.

 

Quotes first, reads list to follow.  BRB.

[Kivam]

I'm not.  Not day 1 of my first game back in 2 years.  I need at least 1 sultry night

 

Cass ninja'd Wombat, well done

 

Sick xpost imo.

 

FWIW, I AM OPEN TO A DPR LYNCH

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

 

*shock horror*

You mean I'm Town???

Writing your own posts doesn't make you town Cass lol. But the way in which you DO post this game does, imo.

[WWWwombat]

 

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

 

 

*shock horror*

You mean I'm Town???

 

 

Maybe.  I find it highly unlikely that, even if you are scum, your scum mates care enough about polishing your image/thread presence to construct huge walls for you.

[Tommyrod]

@Everyone; let's keep the rustling to a low murmur

 

You wouldn't want me to get out the rustle brush on D1

[hazelkrs1]

Des, let's say I have 2 bullets. Who should I shoot?

DPR and Darthe

[Cass]

 

 

Meh, you did kinda imply that Cass was getting hot and bothered. Of course, you also implied that someone else was writing her posts =S

I openly stated that Cass (or mystery author) seemed passionate about supporting Des. If Des was the author, this motive would match with his behavior. If another player wrote the post, it's a frame-up of Des, and Yates is in a perfect position to do that.

Acting like a newer player isn't being trusted to write her own freaking posts is extremely disrespectful, and both scummy AND underhanded on your part.

 

Frankly I despise that people actually seem to hold you in such high regard considering your propensity to be so incredibly disrespectful to other players

 

 

Down, Des 

 

It's just a game. Doing what they're doing is clever, even if it is underhand. I respect you/your words here, and the sentiment they show but...

 

And I can't believe I'm about to say this considering I'm the topic of the 'underhanded' posts, but...

 

Raising these issues about me in the game doesn't mean they'd do the same thing to me in person, for example, in general conversation or in chat... They're... *grits teeth and spews it out* .... just... playing.

 

Right?

 

 

Playing like Scum?

[Songstress]

Darthe

    Kivam

    DreadPirateRoberts

    Yates.

    Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

    Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

    Andrej

    Krakalakachkn

    Thane Vakarian

    Tress

    TheRagnarok

    Stelio Kontos

    dicetosser1

    Sili Quirrels

    WWWwombat

    Arsis Pralaya

    Hallia

    Cass (Mentored by manbat)

    Leelou

    Despot / csarmi Hydra

 

You are so amazingly strange and I think I love you.

 

 

[WWWwombat]

 

 

Cass ninja'd Wombat, well done

Sick xpost imo.

 

FWIW, I AM OPEN TO A DPR LYNCH

Prove it

 

##[unvote]

 

[V]##DPR[/v]

 

 

Hold your horses.  Don't want to let Sili off the hook just yet.

 

 

K, so.  

 

Yesterday was a big black hole of fatigue and fuzzy head.  I've been doing most of my following along on mobile, and I'm positive I've missed some pages or partial pages in there because I've seen things quoted that I don't remember reading.  I won't have time until the weekend to do a full re-read, and it'll be more useful after a few flips anyway, so I'm gonna try to grab a few quotes that I remembered wanting to respond to as I read them and get a semi-explained reads list out there.   A lot of my early reads are gut feelings, but after almost 3 years of playing I've figured out that my gut feelings normally CAN be backed up by evidence when I have the time and motivation to go back and do ISOs.  My thread recall is pretty much crap since I stopped doing the Giant Spreadsheet of Doom, but the impressions the individual posts leave accumulate into a nebulous read.

 

Quotes first, reads list to follow.  BRB.

 

YES!

[Cass]

 

 

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

 

*shock horror*

You mean I'm Town???

Writing your own posts doesn't make you town Cass lol. But the way in which you DO post this game does, imo.

 

Kinda my point...

[DPR]

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

 

See below:

 

 

 

Meh, you did kinda imply that Cass was getting hot and bothered. Of course, you also implied that someone else was writing her posts =S

I openly stated that Cass (or mystery author) seemed passionate about supporting Des. If Des was the author, this motive would match with his behavior. If another player wrote the post, it's a frame-up of Des, and Yates is in a perfect position to do that.

Acting like a newer player isn't being trusted to write her own freaking posts is extremely disrespectful, and both scummy AND underhanded on your part.

 

Frankly I despise that people actually seem to hold you in such high regard considering your propensity to be so incredibly disrespectful to other players

 

 

If a new player is on a wolf team, it is necessary that they would be coached. We are playing mafia...

 

The part that I said i disagreed with was where she stopped commenting on my play and started supported your agenda. This smacks of puppetry to me. 

 

Here's a fun exercise that I think you'll enjoy: go back through all of your posts and jot down all of the insulting terms, phrases and implications that you've thrown at other players. Then look in a mirror, read that list and follow it with your quote above about who you despise. 

 

You continue to focus on issues that have nothing to do with this game despite several other players remarking that you should. There are those that encourage you to act the way that you do, but they do you and the game a disservice.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

Meh, you did kinda imply that Cass was getting hot and bothered. Of course, you also implied that someone else was writing her posts =S

I openly stated that Cass (or mystery author) seemed passionate about supporting Des. If Des was the author, this motive would match with his behavior. If another player wrote the post, it's a frame-up of Des, and Yates is in a perfect position to do that.

Acting like a newer player isn't being trusted to write her own freaking posts is extremely disrespectful, and both scummy AND underhanded on your part.

 

Frankly I despise that people actually seem to hold you in such high regard considering your propensity to be so incredibly disrespectful to other players

 

 

Down, Des 

 

It's just a game. Doing what they're doing is clever, even if it is underhand. I respect you/your words here, and the sentiment they show but...

 

And I can't believe I'm about to say this considering I'm the topic of the 'underhanded' posts, but...

 

Raising these issues about me in the game doesn't mean they'd do the same thing to me in person, for example, in general conversation or in chat... They're... *grits teeth and spews it out* .... just... playing.

 

Right?

 

 

Playing like Scum?

 

I have not actively pushed you or accused you of being a puppet.

 

I have declared multiple times that I doubt this is the case.

 

You are being a nutbar.

[WWWwombat]

G2g to the dentist soon btw.  Should be back well before EOD.

[Yates]

Yates!

Cass!

 

 

 

*So, you're saying you're not actually the Seer???

Droll.

 

First - Dude, I haven't been actively ignoring you on purpose or as a ploy.

Good. It felt that way. I think you can see why.

 

So let's get at the meat of this...

 

First, wrt Sili:

 

Sili on the other hand, explained to me his take on Seer theory/made excuses for Yate’s claim. On two separate, separated posts. He seemed to be thinking about it too much.

 

The context you were/are missing here was in the link I provided to you. Did you click on that link and just look at the name of the players at least? [i obviously don't expect you to read the game - lol] Sili and I were both in that game [along with 8 others involved in this game] that I linked. We were also both playing on that site for the first time so I think certain things "stuck" with us. With that as context, I don't think it's fair to accuse him of "making excuses" in this instance since I think he'd make this same post as either alignment and regardless of his role. It looked genuinely like Sili providing you with information that you didn't have.

 

His back and forth in the thread, I think, is more indicative of stream of consciousness play. For Sili this is pretty null. I've never seen him as scum yet [at least not for a full game] but none of this is outside of his Town meta.

 

Back to me. What did you mean here?

 

Yates appears, posts concisely, quoting my questions, but then mis-answers, centers everything on explaining the basics of Seer theory instead of responding to my questions on his motives.

 

 

Also, I'd take a Sili, Yates, Wombat, Des scum team ANY day! What's funny here is you named 3 people that were in that game and 1 that is at least familiar with the strategy. In other words, you just named the scum team as the people that would have understood the play.

 

What bothers me is not just that you hard-claimed Seer early. What bothers me is I find the idea of Town hard-claiming Seer at the point you did possibly less likely than the idea of Scum hard-claiming Seer at the point you did. You follow?

I hear what you are saying. I do. But all I can tell you is that you are wrong. And I think we'll get into the why's and the how's starting here:

 

When questioned about why you did something that I thought may make you more likely to be scum, you didn't give me an explanation for your motives. You just rehashed some general theory that I thought it was obvious I already knew.

See, it didn't look obvious to me that you already knew the theory. I don't think it was obvious to a LOT of people which is 30% of why it kept coming up [the other 70% being DPR].

 

It would kind of defeat the purpose of my play if I showed you my hand. So telling you IN GENERAL how that play could work is probably the best you are going to get out of me. At least for now. I mean, I could have been telling the truth knowing no one would believe me and would just assume it was cover, right? Or I could have been just laying cover. I'm not going to tell you which one it was.

 

What I *CAN* tell you is that I *DIDN'T* do that to try to fish for a role. And the only method I have for proving that is to point back to the mafia theory discussion on why that wouldn't be the case.

 

In addition to:

- The fact that Sili looked/s rather scummy to me, and he seemed to be defending you, using tactics that were much the same.

What you are doing here is something called "confirmation bias." When you are ASSUMING Sili is scum and that his interaction with me somehow paints me in a scummy light, irrespective of my own actions, you are making a logical error that collapses in the event Sili flips Town.

 

Even still, let's say Sili *IS* scum. Have you ever heard of a term called "buddying?" or "white knighting?" It's a super common tactic for scum to make friend's with a Townie and to fake defend them. It's also called "pocketing" by some people. The reason scum do it is exactly for the connections you are assuming above. It's to make a Townie look scummy if they themselves get lynched and flip scum.

 

The fact that DPR mentioned a heap of stuff that made a lot of sense to me at the time, before I suspected gave a lot of value to the thought he could be wolf.

I'll let you come to your own conclusion on that. He's pretty wily.

[hazelkrs1]

@Everyone; let's keep the rustling to a low murmur

 

You wouldn't want me to get out the rustle brush on D1

 

 

 

 

 

Meh, you did kinda imply that Cass was getting hot and bothered. Of course, you also implied that someone else was writing her posts =S

I openly stated that Cass (or mystery author) seemed passionate about supporting Des. If Des was the author, this motive would match with his behavior. If another player wrote the post, it's a frame-up of Des, and Yates is in a perfect position to do that.

Acting like a newer player isn't being trusted to write her own freaking posts is extremely disrespectful, and both scummy AND underhanded on your part.

 

Frankly I despise that people actually seem to hold you in such high regard considering your propensity to be so incredibly disrespectful to other players

 

 

Down, Des 

 

It's just a game. Doing what they're doing is clever, even if it is underhand. I respect you/your words here, and the sentiment they show but...

 

And I can't believe I'm about to say this considering I'm the topic of the 'underhanded' posts, but...

 

Raising these issues about me in the game doesn't mean they'd do the same thing to me in person, for example, in general conversation or in chat... They're... *grits teeth and spews it out* .... just... playing.

 

Right?

 

 

Playing like Scum?

 

 

No, and I appreciate you trying to give people the benefit of the doubt here, but suggesting that someone isn't being allowed to write their own posts is pretty disrespectful.

 

Even if we WERE scum together, I would never in a million years suggest writing your posts for you, that would NEVER let you grow as a player and learn things on your own if that were to happen.