[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[hazelkrs1]

Wombat people aren't just LOCK CLEAR or LOCK SCUM to me- I OFTEN express muddled reads on people, and ALWAYS try to consider whether I'm wrong on a read. And often when I DO use those terms I'm posturing anyways. Stop belittling my play, whether town or scum.

 

And you haven't given me ANY reason to unvote you. Act townie, THEN I'll reconsider my read. Until then vote stays.

[dicetosser1]

im finding nyns isos pretty accurate. accurate enuff to vote on even

 

 

##vote verbam

[TheRagnarok]

 

 

 

Guys, DPR being a condescending douche ITT doesn't make him scum. And the way Yates tried to push him makes him look good.

I agree this makes him less likely to be mafia. He COULD still be SK however.

What? No! Being as this is evidently his SOP, it has no bearing on his alignment whatsoever.

No the condescending douche thing doesn't, sorry if that wasn't clear

He could be SK cause of his really fake looking push on Sili yesterday about "evidence", his talking about seer cover more than anyone even while fosing those talking about it, and general evasiveness when people engage him

The crazy thing is, I kind of don't WANT him to be scum here, cause were actually being semi reasonable to one another today, and if he IS scum, I could see him devolving the game or painting me out as an emo psycho mess again just to keep town from lynching him. If he's town I'd rather that became more obvious through other means.

Unfortunately, he "doesn't want to give the opposition talking points" and I guess that means he's gonna stay in his snake oil salesman outfit and continue being cryptic the rest of the game

Oh I gotcha now.

 

And if you're town, aren't you supposed to hope people are town?

 

Des, is it just me or is something different about you this game?

[WWWwombat]

Wombat people aren't just LOCK CLEAR or LOCK SCUM to me- I OFTEN express muddled reads on people, and ALWAYS try to consider whether I'm wrong on a read. And often when I DO use those terms I'm posturing anyways. Stop belittling my play, whether town or scum.

 

And you haven't given me ANY reason to unvote you. Act townie, THEN I'll reconsider my read. Until then vote stays.

 

*sigh*

 

I wanted to leave this until later in order to catch more scum, but I think your tunneling on me is becoming too counterproductive to ignore.  Sec, pulling something.

[WWWwombat]

Did Leelou and Stelio posted their peeks?

 

Remember this?  It was a very good question.

[WWWwombat]

 

Stelio LOCK CLEAR

 

 

jk

if I'm the seer I peeked myself villager last night, can't be too careful

 

or maybe it was him villager

 

[WWWwombat]

GF is dead.  Only way I'm not town is if I'm SK or I'm scum and intentionally killed someone with zero seer equity.

 

Sorta sheds new light on Kivam's SK push on me imo.

[WWWwombat]

I doubt I'll ever stop you from tinfoiling, Des, but I'm not letting you tunnel me.

[hazelkrs1]

GF is dead. Only way I'm not town is if I'm SK or I'm scum and intentionally killed someone with zero seer equity.

 

Sorta sheds new light on Kivam's SK push on me imo.

There is some wifom in bolded but eh

 

##[unvote]

 

Didn't even really notice that tho. /shrug

[csarmi]

Umm.

 

There were three kills.

 

The GF (Yates) kill was town vig or SK.

We got Stelio and Leelou kills. Neither makes sense for a town vig (Stelio was peeked by us and Leelou was town read).

 

Problem is we don't know which of the four kills failed. Stelio kill could have been SK.

 

And we don't know what the SK picked. If they picked Godfather, they wouldn't seet-hunt.

 

So no Wombat, things are not so simple.

 

Now someone should ISO Leelou for possible peek.

[csarmi]

SK picking BPV makes much more sense tho, unless it is someone who is sure to get peeked.

[Songstress]

Got a late start today... doing a full re-read and making some notes this time through, and already on P4 I've seen something that I forgot, which makes me feel a decent bit less great about Despo, and slightly better about DPR.

 

A recalibration is definitely in order.  This is going to take some time but I'm going to make an effort not to get sidetracked.  I'll try to keep current if anyone wants to request responses on specific things.

[csarmi]

Despo hasn't even posted yet by P4.

 

Get @ me.

[Songstress]

Despo hasn't even posted yet by P4.

 

Get @ me.

 

That's part of the problem.  When Despo was laying out the sequence of events with the big "seer cover" brouhaha with DPR yesterday, I completely forgot that YOU were the first one to bring up Seer Cover.  You, as in same slot as Despo, which means I need to rethink how much DPR's big "misrepresentation" means in the light of that fact.

 

Like I said, recalibrating.

[csarmi]

That's correct. I brought up seer cover first. People seemed to forget about that tho (or react). It only got discussed later.

[csarmi]

No idea whether Despo noticed it. You'll have to ask him. I don't think i mentioned it on QT as it was quite evident and basic.

[csarmi]

Anything, basically....

 

The exchange coming up to this point (Thane vs Verbal + Verbal/Csarmi connection) feels like town Thane. He ia doing it realtime and being proactive and natural about it.

[csarmi]

Why are we talking about this? I'm not going to base my read on Thane on what he rolled in recent games and the fact that he got mislynched. Either we need to learn to read him better or he needs to adjust his play to be more readable. Or both. So lets put previous games aside cause they have no bearing on what he rolled this game.

 

I'm basically gonna try and understand where you're coming from, Thane, and make my own conclusions. But yeah, drop the previous games commentary.

 

Not sure why scum!Nyn wouls interfere here this way.

[Tommyrod]

Vote Count D2.7:

 

Verbarm (2): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202]

Wombat (1): Kivam [#1906]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Kivam (1): Wombat [#2198]

 

Unvote (3): Pral [#1985], Cass [#2187], Deslami [#2209]

 

Not Voting (8): AJ, Darthe, DPR, Hallia, Krak, Rags, Tress, Verbarm

 

At the gallows: Verbarm

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

[WWWwombat]

Umm.

 

There were three kills.

 

The GF (Yates) kill was town vig or SK.

We got Stelio and Leelou kills. Neither makes sense for a town vig (Stelio was peeked by us and Leelou was town read).

 

Problem is we don't know which of the four kills failed. Stelio kill could have been SK.

 

And we don't know what the SK picked. If they picked Godfather, they wouldn't seet-hunt.

 

So no Wombat, things are not so simple.

 

Now someone should ISO Leelou for possible peek.

 

 

Once again, I think assuming that a kill "failed" is a bad idea.  I think it's much more likely that the odd-night vig holstered.

 

SK could still seer-hunt as GF because it still helps them push mislynches late game.  They wouldn't be as effective though, not having the info the mafia does.  The mafia obviously didn't kill Yates.  And a townie killing Yates doesn't make sense to me as there would have been a significant chance of killing the seer N1.  Whereas an SK would see him as either scum or a possible seer, either one being a potentially good kill for the SK.

 

Like I said, I can't prevent tinfoiling though.

[DPR]

 

Umm.

 

There were three kills.

 

The GF (Yates) kill was town vig or SK.

We got Stelio and Leelou kills. Neither makes sense for a town vig (Stelio was peeked by us and Leelou was town read).

 

Problem is we don't know which of the four kills failed. Stelio kill could have been SK.

 

And we don't know what the SK picked. If they picked Godfather, they wouldn't seet-hunt.

 

So no Wombat, things are not so simple.

 

Now someone should ISO Leelou for possible peek.

 

 

Once again, I think assuming that a kill "failed" is a bad idea.  I think it's much more likely that the odd-night vig holstered.

 

SK could still seer-hunt as GF because it still helps them push mislynches late game.  They wouldn't be as effective though, not having the info the mafia does.  The mafia obviously didn't kill Yates.  And a townie killing Yates doesn't make sense to me as there would have been a significant chance of killing the seer N1.  Whereas an SK would see him as either scum or a possible seer, either one being a potentially good kill for the SK.

 

Like I said, I can't prevent tinfoiling though.

 

 

Hmmm.

 

Why is it a bad idea?

 

The SK didn't holster - the SK needs people dead as fast as possible. 

 

It's not hard to imagine that the Town Vig would've taken a shot. N1 is far from crucial numbers-wise and hitting mafia is quite the feather in one's cap on D1, especially for a tone-reader. 

 

The Role Blocker wasn't going to holster. Neither was the Jailer.

 

We had a narrow field of players that stood out on D1 and a rather dramatic EOD.

 

Hits and protects could have easily collided.

 

So why the choice of the word "bad"?

[Andrej]

This discussion is still pretty fruitless in my opinion.

 

The only people who know for sure are those who submitted the actions and I think continued discussion is just giving scum an opportunity to mislead or to spawn arguments over theory which isn't fully relevant to who are the enemies in this game.

 

Let's get back on track.

[Andrej]

[v]##Krak[/v]

[Darthe]

Wombat people aren't just LOCK CLEAR or LOCK SCUM to me- I OFTEN express muddled reads on people, and ALWAYS try to consider whether I'm wrong on a read. And often when I DO use those terms I'm posturing anyways. Stop belittling my play, whether town or scum.

 

And you haven't given me ANY reason to unvote you. Act townie, THEN I'll reconsider my read. Until then vote stays.

How did his response to you warrant unvoting him?  

 

GF is dead.  Only way I'm not town is if I'm SK or I'm scum and intentionally killed someone with zero seer equity.

 

Sorta sheds new light on Kivam's SK push on me imo.

I find this to be a particularly fruitless argument on this day since we are missing a kill.  

 

@AJ who's on your radar atm?

 

[v] ##Verbacle [/v] 

[Andrej]

This game is sadly inactive. I guess I just need to start doing more of my part and pushing discussion.

 

@AJ who's on your radar atm?

 

I may be able to support a Verbarm wagon but my early gut read on Verb was that their shared slot was Town, so I'd be hesitant.

 

I'm somewhat suspicious of you based solely on Yates's commentary about your alignment and his ability to read you but I admit that's mostly circumstantial and doesn't really apply to your full body of work which I haven't scrutinized intensely yet.

 

Other players I am currently wary of are Kivam/Wombat. I feel there isn't a high chance of there being not being a wolf between the two and both have come across to me in bad ways. Wombat's D1 EOD was strange and generally Kivam has been sketchy to me ever since he started to focus on me as a scum read and yet never really pushed me. His posts are 'good' in that they're clean and logical but there have been several times this game where I have to pause and seriously consider whether or not he's serious with what he is saying. That's troublesome for me.

 

DPR is either lock town or him and Yates did a wonderful bussing/distancing act. With the GF dead I feel like he'd be a fantastic Cop target just to verify him one way or the other.

 

For D2 I think I am leaning towards lynching the inactive players. Both Hallia and Krak haven't posted in LITERALLY DAYS so if that's what we can expect moving into later phases where lynches are going to be much more crucial I would rather kill them early than depend on Vigs who have their own motive/suspicions to work off of and won't necessarily listen to the best interest of Town when choosing their targets. Tress is another I'd potentially be interested in lynching just because I feel like the majority of her posts are 'scumscuses' (if you will) where she's mostly telling us how busy she is and how she'll catch up later but never really offers anything to advance the game. 

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the majority of wolves are slankers and just waiting for the vocal Village players to start ripping into each other, which is how most DM games devolve into. We need to lynch sketchy/quiet players early and allow the tinfoiling to take affect in later phases when the potential pool of actual wolves is decreased significantly outside of players who won't necessarily telegraph their alignment.