[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Cass]

Thanks for answering Csarmi, Thane and Nyn 

 

Unfortunately for me, I really have to go to bed - again passing 330am and stuff going on tomorrow. I'm loving this but learning lessons. 

 

I have a few questions that may help me work this out when I get home tomorrow, was gonna wait since I hate the fact I'm behind again and there's probably stuff behind me I should read, but then again that's a long time from now may as well post them now and have your answers ready for me when I'm back tomorrow, right?

 

 

a) @ Des at What's with all your chopping and changing? I'm looking forward to reading your spoiler thing properly - and then your comments whenever you come back. Just sayin'
    @ EVERYONE who's played with Des before - IS Des playing just like Des, or not? I need to know if all this chopping and changing is just like him and natural this time, or not.

 

 

b) @Nyn - what's your current stance on Barm? You had a bad ju-ju for him at the beginning right? How about now, after my post and your re-read?
 

 

c) @DPR - What's your read on Kiv? When you suggested a Scum team that didn't include you or Kiv - why did you suggest Kiv should be out too? I can think of a 'plausible' reason for you, now. But not quite one for Kiv....?

[Nynaeve]

b) @Nyn - what's your current stance on Barm? You had a bad ju-ju for him at the beginning right? How about now, after my post and your re-read?

 

My current stance is that I haven't had time to ISO both him and Verbal. I hope to get to it tomorrow morning. 

[Thane Vakarian]

verb has kinda disappeared imo.... if that is beneficial for their hydra, i dunno... Barm does feel good to me though. 

[Barmacral]

As stated Verb is on a business trip. He responded to me in QT earlier today saying he was on his way to the airport so I'm hoping that means he'll be back today.

[Thane Vakarian]

that's good to know, thanks Barm

[Cass]

 

Turns out, Nyn had a bad juju read on Barm and Verb too - and Barm never answered my questions sufficiently.

 

How so? And if I didn't, why did you stop asking?

 

- Cos you answered something along the lines of 'I was pushing non-specific buttons for non-specific reasons, I've been doing it all game' and I'm an idiot who's apparently easy to blind.

 

Kinda like I forgot I made the following notes about this post from Yates on DPR -

 

 

 

 

Yates., on 13 Nov 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

There is a 0% chance that Yates does not understand what Kivam is getting at.

There is a 0% chance that you didn't understand the point I was trying to make.

 

I *know* what Kivam is trying to say. I restated it for him - which you are conveniently leaving out. But I'm saying is hogwash. I have a history with a number of players in the game. If someone that knows how I play says "Yates does or says this as Town or this as scum" and it's accurate? Who cares? That's nothing more than introducing some meta knowledge. And in this case, he was introducing meta knowledge BECAUSE HE WAS ASKED FOR IT. How this becomes "Des and Yates are now linked" is complete garbage.

 

I'm actually feeling okay about Des and seeing a lot of his Town tells so maybe this is all moot. But I don't like being set up for associative tells that aren't associative tells.

 

Awwww guys, we appreciate you and all but it's really not necessary.

Okay. No slack offered then. The next time either of you are "confused" about something or make mountains out of mole hills, I will assign the appropriate amount of scum points to it.

 

Like - how you avoid direct questions, for example. Super scummy.

How you have illustrated cognitive dissonance throughout your WoT's. Super scummy.

How you have failed to recognize [new to DM] standard play as WIFOM. Super scummy.

How you have failed to adjust your reads based on information that disproves your own logic. Super scummy.

 

The only reason I haven't jumped on the DPR wagon is because I have been cutting you slack AND because I have meta info on Des that suggests that he can get tunnelly on Townies because he will find things to fit his narrative. While that is typically a scum tell, I have very recently come to realize that this is not alignment indicative *for Des*. [And when it goes wrong - it goes really wrong.]

 

So how about you start reading the thread for context? And try adjusting your reads when context you didn't understand is given?

 

Pop quiz, hotshot; what's the difference between your reaction to all of the context provided surrounding "SeerGate" and Cass's reaction after Des "defended" Kivam when Cass didn't understand the "pop quiz hotshot" reference? Here's a hint; one of them is incredibly scummy and one of them is naturally townie.

 

 

 

- may have even used them when we had our tete-a-tete:

 

"I like it, I even agree with most of it, but I don't buy it enough to shift you out of red. Smells of distancing to me. You're siding with me, but you're not clearing yourself or telling me anything I didn't already think I know. What else you got?"

 

 

And then still shifted my focus AWAY FROM YATES him to SILI - based on my suspicions of DPR...    Clever of me, right?

 

[Cass]

 

b) @Nyn - what's your current stance on Barm? You had a bad ju-ju for him at the beginning right? How about now, after my post and your re-read?

 

My current stance is that I haven't had time to ISO both him and Verbal. I hope to get to it tomorrow morning. 

 

 

Damn. 

[Nynaeve]

?

[Cass]

Thanks though. I think I'll wait on a response from DPR and try to do an ISO on them tomorrow too, before I start raving and latching onto stuff like a noob again 

 

For now, I'm off to bed for reals this time y'all.

 

Ninight 

[Pralaya]

 

 

excsue me for not agreeing with you on Pral there Wombat.... 

 

Looked to me like Yates was pretty earnestly trying to get Pral killed.  Unlikely to be a bus move imo.  Yates was clearly trying to "deep wolf" but I don't see him saccing a scum PR on D1 for no other reason.

 

 

Really? Because to me it seemed like he threw in the 'still up for a Pral lynch' to look squeaky clean when Sili flipped town. I mean, he did try to stop it.... but oh no...it was too late... no one listened. 

 

Not to mention that his vote was on Pral as he was saying it. It was a redundant comment to make that he was still up for his lynch and it feels like it was made to make him look good later on when Sili flipped town. Especially considering he said it 5 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE. PFFT.

 

Now, your argument has changed from Yates wanted to bus, Yates is unpredictable to "Nah, he was just trying to distance"? 

 

Yates has been going against Arsis/me throughout D1. Pushing, nudging all through the day till minutes before the deadline.

 

He tried to nudge a lynch against me 3 hours before deadline

He did the same 10 minutes before deadline. Des actually changed his vote because of that. All he needed was 1-2 more, especially Sili was on during the time and town telling.

 

If you are town, you are tinfoiling this so hard that it is not even making any sense. 

[csarmi]

Cass yes this is how Despo usually is.

 

I'm usually much more active and outspoken. He's normal here.

[csarmi]

Actually he is s little less wild than normally.

[Nynaeve]

Now, your argument has changed from Yates wanted to bus, Yates is unpredictable to "Nah, he was just trying to distance"? 

 

Yates has been going against Arsis/me throughout D1. Pushing, nudging all through the day till minutes before the deadline.

 

He tried to nudge a lynch against me 3 hours before deadline

He did the same 10 minutes before deadline. Des actually changed his vote because of that. All he needed was 1-2 more, especially Sili was on during the time and town telling.

 

If you are town, you are tinfoiling this so hard that it is not even making any sense. 

 

 

Your competing train was a now confirmed townie. How does that add up to your little story?  So you're saying Yates was trying with all his might to mislynch you.... even though your competing train was a mislynch too? lol   Sure.

[DPR]

Thanks for answering Csarmi, Thane and Nyn 

 

Unfortunately for me, I really have to go to bed - again passing 330am and stuff going on tomorrow. I'm loving this but learning lessons. 

 

I have a few questions that may help me work this out when I get home tomorrow, was gonna wait since I hate the fact I'm behind again and there's probably stuff behind me I should read, but then again that's a long time from now may as well post them now and have your answers ready for me when I'm back tomorrow, right?

 

 

a) @ Des at What's with all your chopping and changing? I'm looking forward to reading your spoiler thing properly - and then your comments whenever you come back. Just sayin'

    @ EVERYONE who's played with Des before - IS Des playing just like Des, or not? I need to know if all this chopping and changing is just like him and natural this time, or not.

 

 

b) @Nyn - what's your current stance on Barm? You had a bad ju-ju for him at the beginning right? How about now, after my post and your re-read?

 

 

c) @DPR - What's your read on Kiv? When you suggested a Scum team that didn't include you or Kiv - why did you suggest Kiv should be out too? I can think of a 'plausible' reason for you, now. But not quite one for Kiv....?

 

So, for various reasons, I'm not going to go into detail on all of the possibilities regarding Kiv. What i said to Des about not giving the opposition talking points is a large part of this as well as the fact that half of this game (at least - more if the players are skilled) is dependent on what is not said. 

 

However, I will offer this: everything Kiv has said can be taken at face value and trusted. Just as he pointed out that I will play the same as scum or town, he will do the same and we will both use town-centric logic to seem town. The key here is that the information we offer always be correct or we'll give ourselves away. The danger to us, in we are scum, is that the later in the game we get, the higher the stakes and chances to get caught. This means that scum will more than likely need to make a move counter to logic and town play and then you have them. 

 

For now, know that Kivam has shared proven techniques and information that you can use.

 

Other than that, we'll just have to wait and see how things turn out. 

[Nynaeve]

And FYI my reasoning hasn't changed at any point, but nice spinning.

[Pralaya]

Pray, if you seriously are town here, don't ever be the first one to point to a post after someone flips scum and be like "haha, thank God this spews me town"

 

It just looks INCREDIBLY wolfy dude, and YOU'D be responsible for a mislynch on you here were that to happen. Let SOMEONE ELSE point that kind of thing out, yeesh.

 

Agreed.

 

I was kinda pissed off by his late push when I woke up and read the game in the morning. So, when I saw his flip, got a bit too excited. More of a knee-jerk post.

[TheRagnarok]

Sorry I've been AWOL guys, RL was nuts yesterday and I just power skimmed through the 40 or so pages I had to catch up on.  Gonna re-read Yates and have thoughts in a bit. 

[Pralaya]

 

Now, your argument has changed from Yates wanted to bus, Yates is unpredictable to "Nah, he was just trying to distance"? 

 

Yates has been going against Arsis/me throughout D1. Pushing, nudging all through the day till minutes before the deadline.

 

He tried to nudge a lynch against me 3 hours before deadline

He did the same 10 minutes before deadline. Des actually changed his vote because of that. All he needed was 1-2 more, especially Sili was on during the time and town telling.

 

If you are town, you are tinfoiling this so hard that it is not even making any sense. 

 

 

Your competing train was a now confirmed townie. How does that add up to your little story?  So you're saying Yates was trying with all his might to mislynch you.... even though your competing train was a mislynch too? lol   Sure.

 

 

That's why I believe the scum was split up on the two wagons. Obviously Yates changing the story suddenly would not look good for him, especially as he was playing very cautiously.

[hazelkrs1]

I don't think Yates was "scrambling" and doing everything he could to get Pray lynched over Sili, I just think he was trying to stay consistent in his push in that slot.

 

Consider his tone when he DID push that slot Nyn, and consider that there were VERY few people he actually pushed yesterday. Pray was pretty much the only one. He soft pushed against Kiv and Wes after each interrogated him a bit, and soft pushed against Darthe but later backtracked on that, and late in the day he soft pushed against Tress.

 

The vast majority of his play was talking about himself, and (imo) trying to picket townies. I don't really feel the way he pushed @ Arsis/Pray and the fact that it was his only hard push speaks to Pray being his scummate here.

 

Think you're either being reactive to Pray's (admittedly scummy) post implying that Yates' push cleared him, or suffering from confbias

 

Also confused with Thane's push on Pray tbh. He asks for people's opinions on who looks scummy after some flips, and then just goes back to a D1 read, a read he camped on for quite a while in the midst of a bunch of other stuff.

 

PLUS, I could have def misread Yates spew and Yates could have been defending a teammate instead of WKing a townie

[hazelkrs1]

In fact, Thane falling back on his read on Pray is now making me think that's the case (that he is scum with Yates)

 

FOS Thane

[DPR]

@ MOD - I'd like to request a confirmation of when D2 is scheduled to end and also request that the player list posted on the OP be updated with player status. 

[Thane Vakarian]

Des, the way Pral replied to what happened EOD just made me further certain that i was on the right track. THAT is why i voted him again. 

[Tommyrod]

@ MOD - I'd like to request a confirmation of when D2 is scheduled to end and also request that the player list posted on the OP be updated with player status.

Lynches are currently set for Mondays and Thursdays at 9PM EST.

 

See the timer below vote counts?

[hazelkrs1]

Yeah but even Pray himself just admitted that was prob a mistake-

 

You're either scum here Thane, or being too reactionary.

 

Look through my spew again, and tell me with a straight face you think he was trying to bus Arsis/Pray yesterday

[Thane Vakarian]

if it's either/or, than it's reactionary. And all i do is react to something that seems off to me. If i'd be able to get in everybodies head like that, then this game would be easy. I deem Yates capable of putting out false trails... so my reads are purely based on Pral's play.