[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Thane Vakarian]

i already had my vote on Pral D1, and so far, i haven't seen anythin that would make me change my mind or vote someone else.

[DPR]

 

@Wombat - Regarding the angle to my Cass bait that I haven't discussed - you see a red light or tinfoil?

 

I'm trying to clear my head after being trolled all damn day. 

 

I really don't think anyone else was writing Cass' posts.  If you have other reasons for suspecting her, that's ok imo, but I have her as a very light town lean.

 

 

Because I think I can say this now, I did not mean that someone physically wrote her posts for her. By "puppet" I meant that she was being fed what to say, which, technically, she is because she's being mentored.

 

Having said that, I'm still not good with the whole thing and the idea of two big play-makers marionetting a noob is just too juicy a bite to spit out right away. 

 

I fully accept that there is a difference between what I can imagine and what is actually happening, but it does have legend potential. 

[WWWwombat]

Also, Kivam saying that I might have SK shot Leelou when we have only 3 kills and one of them is on scum is WUT?

[WWWwombat]

 

 

@Wombat - Regarding the angle to my Cass bait that I haven't discussed - you see a red light or tinfoil?

 

I'm trying to clear my head after being trolled all damn day. 

 

I really don't think anyone else was writing Cass' posts.  If you have other reasons for suspecting her, that's ok imo, but I have her as a very light town lean.

 

 

Because I think I can say this now, I did not mean that someone physically wrote her posts for her. By "puppet" I meant that she was being fed what to say, which, technically, she is because she's being mentored.

 

Having said that, I'm still not good with the whole thing and the idea of two big play-makers marionetting a noob is just too juicy a bite to spit out right away. 

 

I fully accept that there is a difference between what I can imagine and what is actually happening, but it does have legend potential. 

 

 

You wouldn't be Wes if you didn't think these kind of things.  Just don't go too far down the rabbit hole.

[Thane Vakarian]

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

[Nynaeve]

 

excsue me for not agreeing with you on Pral there Wombat.... 

 

Looked to me like Yates was pretty earnestly trying to get Pral killed.  Unlikely to be a bus move imo.  Yates was clearly trying to "deep wolf" but I don't see him saccing a scum PR on D1 for no other reason.

 

 

Really? Because to me it seemed like he threw in the 'still up for a Pral lynch' to look squeaky clean when Sili flipped town. I mean, he did try to stop it.... but oh no...it was too late... no one listened. 

 

Not to mention that his vote was on Pral as he was saying it. It was a redundant comment to make that he was still up for his lynch and it feels like it was made to make him look good later on when Sili flipped town. Especially considering he said it 5 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE. PFFT.

[Barmacral]

 

How to catch them? Evidence, DPR and Kiv are good, but they make slips too. With the new evidence of all the dead people, especially yates, go back and read how they interact with them (and others). Looking at Wombat is A safe bet and to be encouraged, but don't tunnel in on him, look at everyone else too.

 

Kivam's accusation of Wombat is also of him being the SK, not scum. While good to get rid of them, scum are more important. Dig into Wombat for your own reasons, but not for Kiv's.

 

 

I'm calling sever BS on this.  The SK has a nightly kill all to himself; if we take him out, we have fewer deaths.  The Scum have their factional kill and a N2 vig, and that's it.  Unless we lynch the N2 vig today (a 1/3 shot even on top of the odds that we manage to find an actual wolf), lynching a wolf doesn't mean fewer town deaths until we take them all out.  With only 3 wolfs left, we have a strong numbers advantage - would much rather preserve it by taking out a SK early than moderately enhance it by taking out a wolf. 

 

This is simple math, btw.  Assuming we take out the SK today and our next wolf, say, Day 4, we'll likely have 2 townies shot tonight (Scum factional and vig), then 1 townie shot N3 (factional) for a total of 3 dead townies).  Do it in reverse, and we likely have the same number of townies killed by the wolfs and potentially 2 more dead townies from the serial nights 2 and 3 (odds that he hits a wolf are low, only 3 left out of 16 players). 

 

The only way killing scum before serial doesn't hurt us in the death count, other than getting lucky and having the SK kill scum for us or vice versa, is if we nail them back to back; the longer the spread between scum and SK, the worse it gets.  So while we definitely shouldn't be ignoring wolves to flail around after potential SK targets, if there's a legit case on a serial potential, that takes priority IMO.

 

Anyone disagree?  If so, why?

 

 

 

 

Why are people wondering why Kivam and DPR haven't been NKed instead of wondering why Leelou and Stellio were? lol

 

Leelou could be because of her experience with some of the old hags. She might have been considered a threat. Or possibly because quite a few were townreading her, but I'd hardly say she was a consensus townread. So odd choice. No idea why Stellio. I mean he was being townread by some (if I remember right) but he hasn't had much interactions.... maybe a flip that doesn't give info?

Good question, but keep in mind that it's possible that one was killed by the SK or Vig.  We only had 3 kills last night instead of the expected 4 (Scum factional, Scum Vig, SK, Vig), so either there was a double tap (one player targeted twice), Stelio managed to save someone with his jailkeep last night, or scum roleblocked the SK or Vig. 

 

We know Yates was a SK/Vig kill, obviously, which means at least one of Leelou and Stelio were targeted by scum.  But we don't know whether both were, or what it means ... yet.

 

For instance, Leelou or Stelio could have been targeted by a SK afraid they could peg them (for Leelou, this screams VerBarm or Wombat, to me, especially after Barm's "no, ignore the SK, let's just focus on wolves right now" post and my suspicions on Wombat's changed play.  Don't know enough about Stelio to speculate).  Or it could be a low information kill.  Or it could be that their reads were right and scum was eliminating a danger.  Or it could be that their reads were dead wrong and scum wanted to plant the idea they must have been onto something, to lead us to wrong lynches.

 

We just don't have enough information yet to make informed judgments from the fact that they are dead; we're trying to solve a 1,000 piece puzzle when we can only see 10 of the pieces.  But we will get more pieces as days go by.

 

 

Yeah no I wasn't suggesting we ignore the SK, but I am saying scum hunting is the top priority. If there is a good case made for the SK than sure, lets lynch, it'll help the town. A scum lynch will help the town more. Also this focus on the SK is scummy to me. Trying to direct attention off of scum leads.

[DPR]

 

 

 

@Wombat - Regarding the angle to my Cass bait that I haven't discussed - you see a red light or tinfoil?

 

I'm trying to clear my head after being trolled all damn day. 

 

I really don't think anyone else was writing Cass' posts.  If you have other reasons for suspecting her, that's ok imo, but I have her as a very light town lean.

 

 

Because I think I can say this now, I did not mean that someone physically wrote her posts for her. By "puppet" I meant that she was being fed what to say, which, technically, she is because she's being mentored.

 

Having said that, I'm still not good with the whole thing and the idea of two big play-makers marionetting a noob is just too juicy a bite to spit out right away. 

 

I fully accept that there is a difference between what I can imagine and what is actually happening, but it does have legend potential. 

 

 

You wouldn't be Wes if you didn't think these kind of things.  Just don't go too far down the rabbit hole.

 

 

I'm not. I'm off it. Just had to share it.

[Barmacral]

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

 

Considering how many possibilities there are out there, why do you think it is this specific situation?

[DPR]

Also, Kivam saying that I might have SK shot Leelou when we have only 3 kills and one of them is on scum is WUT?

 

The fact that he left out the frame-up option is cause for concern. Could be an honest omission. Could be intentional. We'll see.

[DPR]

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

 

Will you explain this?

 

What about either of those players do you see as worthy of two shots?

[DPR]

 

 

excsue me for not agreeing with you on Pral there Wombat.... 

 

Looked to me like Yates was pretty earnestly trying to get Pral killed.  Unlikely to be a bus move imo.  Yates was clearly trying to "deep wolf" but I don't see him saccing a scum PR on D1 for no other reason.

 

 

Really? Because to me it seemed like he threw in the 'still up for a Pral lynch' to look squeaky clean when Sili flipped town. I mean, he did try to stop it.... but oh no...it was too late... no one listened. 

 

Not to mention that his vote was on Pral as he was saying it. It was a redundant comment to make that he was still up for his lynch and it feels like it was made to make him look good later on when Sili flipped town. Especially considering he said it 5 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE. PFFT.

 

 

Agree with Nyn on this one.

[Thane Vakarian]

 

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

 

Considering how many possibilities there are out there, why do you think it is this specific situation?

 

4 bullets: 1 x town vig, 1 x SK, 1 x scum vote, 1 x Scum vig. 

 

scum would target town (2 kills), leaves SK and town vig. i assume the town vig would target Yates, who had been on a few people's minds if i recall correctly. SK could have done either Yates or one of the two townies, with townies being more likely (mathematically). Seeing SK is third party, he/she could basically go YOLO.  

[Thane Vakarian]

 

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

 

Will you explain this?

 

What about either of those players do you see as worthy of two shots?

 

see above post please

[Barmacral]

 

 

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

 

Considering how many possibilities there are out there, why do you think it is this specific situation?

 

4 bullets: 1 x town vig, 1 x SK, 1 x scum vote, 1 x Scum vig. 

 

scum would target town (2 kills), leaves SK and town vig. i assume the town vig would target Yates, who had been on a few people's minds if i recall correctly. SK could have done either Yates or one of the two townies, with townies being more likely (mathematically). Seeing SK is third party, he/she could basically go YOLO.  

 

 

So you're going to completely discount every other possibility? What about holstering? Or the jail keeper being successful? What basis are you making those assumptions on?

[Thane Vakarian]

not discounting, but the scenario i described would be the most likely in that little head of mine. It's by far an absolute. 

[DPR]

 

 

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

 

Considering how many possibilities there are out there, why do you think it is this specific situation?

 

4 bullets: 1 x town vig, 1 x SK, 1 x scum vote, 1 x Scum vig. 

 

scum would target town (2 kills), leaves SK and town vig. i assume the town vig would target Yates, who had been on a few people's minds if i recall correctly. SK could have done either Yates or one of the two townies, with townies being more likely (mathematically). Seeing SK is third party, he/she could basically go YOLO.  

 

 

What do you think of the SK hitting Yates because Yates was likely to burn them? Town vig would (should) have needed to consider the benefit of Yates as a Town player and maybe waited until D2 to shine him. This is pure speculation, but it highlights the following scenario:

 

The mafia and town via both choose the same target (either Leelou or Stelio). 

 

My thing is, neither of these players were high on the radar for anything that I can see. There is obviously motivation for individuals to hit them separately (because they are dead...) but I don't see your connection.

 

Which begs the question - why stick your own neck out when the roleblocker possibility is so plausible. What's your motivation?     

[Thane Vakarian]

my motivation is rather simple: try to figure out what happened, try to figure out who the wolves are, get rid of those, find the SK, get rid of him/her and win

[DPR]

 

 

 

SK and scum likely targeted same player... but that's just my humble opinion

 

Considering how many possibilities there are out there, why do you think it is this specific situation?

 

4 bullets: 1 x town vig, 1 x SK, 1 x scum vote, 1 x Scum vig. 

 

scum would target town (2 kills), leaves SK and town vig. i assume the town vig would target Yates, who had been on a few people's minds if i recall correctly. SK could have done either Yates or one of the two townies, with townies being more likely (mathematically). Seeing SK is third party, he/she could basically go YOLO.  

 

 

So you're going to completely discount every other possibility? What about holstering? Or the jail keeper being successful? What basis are you making those assumptions on?

 

 

Yup.

 

not discounting, but the scenario i described would be the most likely in that little head of mine. It's by far an absolute. 

 

You mean not an absolute? 

 

Will you explain more about your motivation for thinking this?

[hazelkrs1]

Debating on spoilering this, and eh I guess I will, cause I'm prob gonna leave it all in one post if possible. DEF needs to be looked at tho, spoiler is just to keep the page pretty!

 

 

 

(chopped out AJ quote about Leelou)

 

She would call it like she sees it. You can learn a lot from a hydra.

 

Also, I wanted to say this at the end of the other game but I don't think it will end in time so I'll say it now; last game made me realize we can't do the 3 Amigos thing any more and Dice and I can't do our soul reads. Now that it's public info and sort of an acknowledged truth between us it's like talking in code and borderline cheating.  

 

I appreciated you not taking advantage of the Dusty Bottoms thing, though!  Very solid character play right there.

 

So in hindsight this is Yates trying to both pocket AJ and Dice imo, and ALSO actually keep from being "outed" by that tell, which is really, really, stupid btw. Can't believe he thinks there is "honor" in not using something like this as a wolf to be townread

 

 

Won't say this spews Dice and AJ town, but makes in addition to the Dice seer clear thing I at least think Dice is not mafia, and AJ is less likely to be

 

(chopped out Csarmi quote about how to read Thane)

 

Csarmi is on point this game. The bold is exactly what I used to Town read Thane in the last game. And I didn't even have to be the one interacting with him there. It's just the way he responds to challenges in thread in real time that give you the read. Basically, it's a stream of consciousness sort of thought process that you see in his posts. His willingness to put out partially thought out reads is indicative of him just figuring things out and not trying to further an agenda. This is something I figured out a little too late the last time I mislynched him in Firefly.

 

I see a LOT more Town Thane here, fwiw.

 

(chopped out quote of Thane talking about always being D1 lynch) 

 

That was either the end of Firefly or ongoing. Don't let it get to you. Just post your thoughts like you did last time. You'll be fine if you're Town and outted if you're scum. So no worries.

 

This was Yates WKing Thane imo, so very much doubt Thane is mafia here

 

(chopped out Nyn quote about ignoring Thane's past mislynches)

 

It's the same thing I brought up about Hally recently. Certain players are kept around as lynch bait. Hally is [was?] one and Thane is another.

 

I don't think he's going to completely change the way he plays. So instead you have to look at his meta and understand what is a Town tell and a scum tell FOR HIM. It's the same thing you do for anyone else you are more familiar with and the reason you defer to Leelou on a Verb read, for example.

 

I think Thane pointing out how often he is mislynched is his way of saying "you guys don't get me." And that's fair.

 

Moar of Yates WKing Thane 

 

(chopped out quote of Thane talking about being lynched)

 

That's when you get lynched.  ALWAYS while you are sleeping.

 

 

EVEN MOAR

 

(chopped out Wombat quote about nothing in mafia being sacred)

 

Why are we even still talking about this? It went beyond "inside joke" in the last game and became borderline cheating. Period. That's it. Yeah, I wish I knew this game was starting sooner. If I had known, I would have said something in the signup thread rather than wait for the current game to finish. But we typically did this in our first couple of posts in the previous games so I felt like putting the kaibosh on it. Otherwise I would have had weigh subbing out.

 

If ANYONE should find me scummy for pointing it out, it's Dice and AJ. This doesn't concern you. And since the meat of this argument is from an ongoing game I'm done talking about it and you just have to wait for the game to finish - as I told Verb - if you feel like you need me to be more specific.

 

Frankly, harping on an outside the thread "tell" that you have no part of looks like scum trying to push an angle you don't even fully understand because you know I can't be specific yet.

 

Would like thoughts on bolded - imo I'm actually thinking the wording in which Yates soft pushes Wombat here actually makes a Yates/Wombat scum pairing still possible, BECAUSE it's a soft push.

 

Could be confbias on my part tho, interested in yall's conclusions.

 

Kivam - do you not know how to use quote tags? I don't mean to sound snarky. I'm just having trouble following your posts and who you are responding to. Makes you hard to follow/read.

 

Bolded seems preemptively apologetic, and imo makes Kivam more likely to be town here. Don't think Yates would trip over himself apologizing like that with a teammate, I think he displayed a tendency to "play nice" with townies throughout his iso imo

 

(chopped out Darthe quote asking Yates for his thoughts on Kivam, Wombat, Deslami, and VerBarm)

 

I just told Kiv my thoughts on him - he's hard to follow. Never played with him before. He looks rusty - like Rags was in that VS game - and using old school mafia logic. Probably going to make him hard to read as not-scum.

I can't tell if Wombat was being overzealous Town or Scum feeling the mood of the thread with that early push. So he's a null with an asterisk.

I forgot Deslami was a hydra. I find myself agreeing with a lot of Csarmi posts - which means I either figured out how to read him or his logic is sound. Des is Des. Give me until tomorrow on this slot.

Barm hasn't done anything outside of his Town range. I don't have a ton of experience with him but I actually got his logic most of the time in the 2 or so games we played together. He also seems to have decent instincts as the game progresses if Town so I'd like to keep him around. Plus I just realized he's hydra with Verb as I was making my "not willing to lynch" list. So this should be an interesting slot to read.

 

My Day 1 not willing to lynch list looks something like:

Dice [N0 - inno]

AJ

Verb/Barm

Desalami

Thane

Leelou

Barm

 

My let the NA's sort them out list is:

Wombat

Arsis

Hally

Krak

Nyn

Sili

Rags

 

Cass, Kivim, and Stelio are all new to me. It's been a LONG time since I played with DPR. So I may be looking for help on these guys.

 

And with that - I'm going to bed.

 

Actually didn't end up finding a true "reads list" from Yates later on, so this is gonna be the most we'll have to work with in that respect it seems like. As Pray recently pointed out, Darthe and Tress were missing from this list, but he mentioned Darthe right afterwards (plus this was in response to Darthe)

 

Not sure I agree with Pray's thoughts that Yates leaving Tress out here points to her not being on his team - he could have been figuring out where to put teammates on either side, and just forgot to add Tress (her activity levels could also explain this)

 

Anyways meat of this imo is in the "not willing to lynch" list. Dice isn't a teammate imo, for reasons already stated. Leelou flipped town, and I know I'm town.

 

Which leaves AJ, VerBarm, and Thane. AJ I already said seemed like Yates might be trying to pocket, however Yates putting him here seems strange- I don't think I saw Yates townreading AJ much before this. So he's still a candidate imo. Thane Yates was trying to WK imo, so I would say he's NOT a candidate for a teammate. VerBarm however, Yates actually lists TWICE. Once as Verb/Barm, once as Barm. Could VERY easily be that he was trying to figure out where to add teammates, then didn't see that he had already added Barm.

 

Kinda telling imo, and leaves VerBarm as a candidate for further inspection here.

 

 

so, we have two direct claims for Seer: Yates and Sili....

 

Anybody up for competing trains, or too early?

LOL - that's not how you do that, Thane. Go look at the VS game.

 

 

Not gonna chop out the Thane quote cause I think this is very telling for why Yates was most likely WKing Thane and not defending a teammate- the way Yates laughs off Thane's call to lynch one of the Seer claims here just doesn't look like w/w to me

 

(chopped out Nyn quote about Arsis)

 

More than that, he's all over the place as Town and flinging poo like a monkey at a zoo to see what sticks. This is actually a really good point and part of how I read Arsis. Look at his most recent Town games as examples. I mean, he counter claimed a Beloved Princess in a game on Day 1 once - and he was a TOWN PR that game!! I'm not seeing any of that here.

 

So I'm inclined to agree with you here. I'll have to look back but I really don't recall seeing him doing ANYTHING even remotely off the wall yet. And that's probably a pretty good scum tell for him. I'm good with Arsis/Darthe wagons today.

 

[v]##Arsis[/v]

 

This is when Yates starts going after Arsis. Actually, this makes me think he wasn't bussing tbh, mostly because of the way he "agrees" with Nyn here. Looks more like scum jumping on a townie case of another townie. Yates also stays pretty consistent on his Arsis/Pray push.

 

(chopped out DPR quote asking Yates why he was post padding)

 

Wait. What? How am I "post padding?"

 

So I still disagree with DPR about Yates' post being "post padding", but regardless the manner in which Yates goes back and forth with DPR over this for a while actually looks better for DPR imo. More on this in a sec

 

(chopped out DPR quote talking about how he didn't mention Cass, and seer cover stuff)

 

See, this is where I have to wonder if this is a rusty Townie or a dude with an agenda. You just made a whole stink with Sili about "semantics" being a scum tool and you are using semantics here. You claim you didn't mention Cass but that's a semantic argument since CASS is the person people are responding to and thus you are still talking about Cass.  

 

You are also accusing Wombat, Sili, and myself of being the "cool kids from the other site," here, which is pretty disingenuous. Doubly so given that Cass specifically references meta as something she's planning on using IN THIS GAME. If she's going to use meta, and she's insinuating that Seer Cover could conceivably be tantamount to role fishing, why is it such a mystery to you when people respond with the meta back story?

 

PE: Okay. I think I see what you are saying. You feel like it's being over explained by multiple people? I was just responding as I was catching up. I would imagine the fact that it got brought up again made it a conversation point for everyone else. You shining the spotlight on something pretty trivial is what's keeping it alive. So there's your irony for today. It's not a big deal. Let it go, man.

 

So Yates went back and forth with DPR for a bit, but finally in bolded he starts questioning if DPR is coming from a scum POV. It actually reminded me of the way Yates handles Kivam later as well (or was it earlier? meh) in how it's like he only remembers after a while to act like he doesn't know the alignment of the person he's arguing with.

 

Underlined also seems like Yates trying to be apologetic and close the discussion, which again kinda looks good for DPR to me

 

(chopped out previous response from Yates to DPR)

 

This is a clever post. Tip o' the cap to you.

 

I look forward to seeing what happens.

 

This response from DPR however, eh...

 

DPR accepts Yates explanation rather easily, and also lets the discussion close. Eh, would like other's input on if this is significant.

 

(chopped out Kivam quote about how Yates' approach of CCing Vig claim with a shot could get him in trouble)

 

Or I shoot the SK, removing an anti-Town role... Anyway, I'm clearly being hyperbolic. Except about the part of how you don't counter claim.

 

Bold looks like more of Yates trying to close the discussion before it goes further. This comes close to spewing Kivam town for me.

 

If you guys wanna go after Yates for something, how about going after him for having very little meaningful content?  Then again, the same could be said of the vast majority of this game...

 

 

 

If you guys wanna go after Yates for something, how about going after him for having very little meaningful content?

Is this a joke?

 

 

Didn't alter these quotes at all, cause I think it is VERY telling in context.

 

Wombat says people should go after Yates for having little meaningful content, but then immediately hedges that by saying the vast majority of the game has had little meaningful content.

 

Hrmmmmm

 

THEN, when Yates quotes it, he chops off the part about Wombat hedging about the previous statement

 

HRMMMMM

 

Plus, Wombat never responds to this (I checked, Wombat doesn't post for a while, but when he does he never comes back to this)

 

Dun DUN DUNNNNNNHHHHHHHHH

 

Yeah Wombat's looking pretty close to CONFIRMED for me from this and other stuff (I'll get to that soon)

 

(chopped out Krak quote talking about Yates trying too hard to clear himself)

 

What's the difference between being a "bulldog" and responding to a nonsense case someone is trying to build?

 

It's *MY* job to clear myself, is it not? I don't get you acting like *I* am scummy for "continuing an argument" when I'm merely addressing a point being leveled directly against me. And not only that, I'm OBVIOUSLY trying to get closure on something that had become a distraction - which is actually probably the most pro Town thing I've done all game. So you giving me SCUM points for that reads as nonsense.

 

Is this your first time in a game with me??

 

Gotta hurry cause I'm running out of time, but yeah Yates' tone here spews Krak town I think

 

(chopped out Kivam quote talking about me/Yates connection)

 

Wow. Wifom up the wazoo. Is everyone taking crazy pills right now?

 

Kivam - this post is complete nonsense. You are creating a false connection here. I'm pointing out that I'm chastising you so that if you flip scum I can be cleared as Town. How do you like that "logic?"

 

Insane.

 

Again, tone here makes me think Kivam/Yates scumbro connection not as likely

 

(chopped out DPR quote)

 

There is a 0% chance that you didn't understand the point I was trying to make.

 

I *know* what Kivam is trying to say. I restated it for him - which you are conveniently leaving out. But I'm saying is hogwash. I have a history with a number of players in the game. If someone that knows how I play says "Yates does or says this as Town or this as scum" and it's accurate? Who cares? That's nothing more than introducing some meta knowledge. And in this case, he was introducing meta knowledge BECAUSE HE WAS ASKED FOR IT. How this becomes "Des and Yates are now linked" is complete garbage.

 

I'm actually feeling okay about Des and seeing a lot of his Town tells so maybe this is all moot. But I don't like being set up for associative tells that aren't associative tells.

 

(chopped out DPR quote)

 

Okay. No slack offered then. The next time either of you are "confused" about something or make mountains out of mole hills, I will assign the appropriate amount of scum points to it.

 

Like - how you avoid direct questions, for example. Super scummy.

How you have illustrated cognitive dissonance throughout your WoT's. Super scummy.

How you have failed to recognize [new to DM] standard play as WIFOM. Super scummy.

How you have failed to adjust your reads based on information that disproves your own logic. Super scummy.

 

The only reason I haven't jumped on the DPR wagon is because I have been cutting you slack AND because I have meta info on Des that suggests that he can get tunnelly on Townies because he will find things to fit his narrative. While that is typically a scum tell, I have very recently come to realize that this is not alignment indicative *for Des*. [And when it goes wrong - it goes really wrong.]

 

So how about you start reading the thread for context? And try adjusting your reads when context you didn't understand is given?

 

Pop quiz, hotshot; what's the difference between your reaction to all of the context provided surrounding "SeerGate" and Cass's reaction after Des "defended" Kivam when Cass didn't understand the "pop quiz hotshot" reference? Here's a hint; one of them is incredibly scummy and one of them is naturally townie.

 

Bolded: Eh.... his reluctance to vote DPR here after saying how scummy he looks... on the surface this looks like it could be distancing from a teammate without having to join the train on him, but eh...

 

Again, would like other's input on this, since mine might be biased

 

Yates, ignoring Des' case on DPR but not DPR's play, is DPR scum?  I need halp.

 

Wombat appealing to Yates about DPR in this manner kinda looks scummy to me, and his tone def makes w/w possible

 

(chopped out Nyn quote about Pray not posting yet, or posting recently that he was catching up or something)

 

Yeah but that was 2 days ago. He'll post something like 30 minutes before deadline after ignoring the thread all week. It's pretty frustrating/annoying. I'm done cutting him slack in the hopes he'll catch up and post something amazing and game solvey and engage the thread with enough time to resolve his slot as opposed to last second posting after ignoring the game.

 

TL/DR - I'm not moving my vote simply because Pral took over for Arsis.

 

Tone here makes me think this wasn't bussing. Bout ready to LOCK CLEAR Pray. 

 

(chopped out Nyn quote)

 

Oh geez!

 

Hey while you're here; what do you think of Leelou and Tress? I kind of hoped to see more from Tress by now and that has me concerned.

 

First off Nyn was already pretty much LOCK CLEAR to me before this, but yeah I think Yates was trying to pocket her as well

 

Anyways, soft nudges Tress, follows up on it in next post

 

(chopped out Nyn quote about Tress)

 

Samesies. This is my summary of her play so far:

 

From her first two posts I guess we can assume her vagina is in tip top shape?

She foregoes an actual catch up post and decides to agree with Des's list of reads.

She gives Sili a little chastising for his "my Day 1 vote doesn't matter" thing.

Some more agreeing with Des and giving Csarmi an "attaboy."

Jokey McJokerson with Wombat and Thane.

Then one more post from noon on Tuesday talking about Salami's D1 vote thing again.

 

Nothing of substance there. I'm used to seeing her with more teeth, I guess is the best way to describe it.

 

(chopped out Nyn quote about Leelou)

 

Yeah. That Des thing came across as a little harsh. But in retrospect I think I have some context for that frustration bubbling over here. Overall she seems to be her normal [to borrow an adjective from Wombat] AFFABLE self - with a side of snark. Mostly, it's how she has been approaching Darthe that's giving me the feel goods about her. She's seeing stuff others haven't already pointed out and using that to resolve his slot. That's Leelou Town solving - not Leelou Scum +1-ing.

 

So Leelou stuff not as helpful obviously, but Tress stuff above is interesting. This COULD be distancing imo, since it was clear Tress wouldn't be lynched yesterday, and also Yates DID forget to put Tress in that earlier "reads list"

 

(chopped out quote of me talking about Wombat's "reads list")

 

Wombat's post? Clearly sarcasm. In response to Darthe. I got that immediately.

 

DPR's post about "really really Town?" Not so much. I would have given him a little more benefit of the doubt if Kivam hadn't handed him that shovel to help dig himself out.

 

Yates soft defending Wombat here, and nudging DPR

 

Strengthens my belief of Wombat being his teammate, and DPR not being his teammate

 

1. Not unless there are some sweet lyrics.

 

2. Darthe is a D2 at the earliest read for me. Plus, he's kind of slunk off into the background given all this other stuff. So I guess I'd need to go back. I don't think he's in the D1 lynch pool, anyway. So I can always revisit if I have to. One thing I can tell you is that the post he made where he called me 52% Town or whatever is a pretty classic Darthe Town post. I actually pointed out where he made an almost verbatim post in the other game about me and we were both Town. But that's shooting from the hip, without a ton of context, and coming from a completely egocentric perspective so grains of salt and all that.

 

 

If quote tags mess up above, sorry. In a rush

 

Anyhoo this was directed at Csarmi who asked about Darthe. Yates setting up Darthe to be townread for the "percentage town" thing def looks interesting in hindsight

 

 

I've known you for a long time and still occasionally have trouble reading you but IMO you're at like 61% town atm.

What would I have to do to achieve the 82% Town range you assigned me after I flipped Town last game?   

 

 

After all, Yates' original response to it DOES look like it could be w/w in hindsight. This response was buried in between a bunch of other quotes as well, a miniwot

 

 

Yes. Because I'm going to pretend I didn't see something that you can actually quote to further my scum agenda? Nope. Just missed it. I'll blame it on skimming because my eyes are glazed over. *shrug* I saw you starting the whole information lynch argument again and that drew my immediate attention and ire. Deal with it.

 

LOL. Fair enough

 

Kivam responding to Yates closing the discussion. Just wanted to post this in case others thought I might be wrong about Yates spewing Kivam as a non-teammate here

 

 

Gotta go, don't have time to do a TLDR right now.

[DPR]

my motivation is rather simple: try to figure out what happened, try to figure out who the wolves are, get rid of those, find the SK, get rid of him/her and win

 

*whistles*

 

Alriiiighty then.

 

You could just write FO - It's faster. 

[Thane Vakarian]

what i think happened during last night isn't necessarily what actually happened, just my personal idea of the events. And nobody stepping forward will not solve anything either. 

 

I'm no experienced player, so yeah... i type what makes sense to me, not necessarily something that would make sense to others. 

[hazelkrs1]

Would prefer more talk about Yates spew and less talk about NA's since there is AGAIN not much concrete info than can be gleaned from that discussion.

 

Yates spew analysis is MUCH more likely to be productive in helping to find wilves today

[Thane Vakarian]

looking into your spoilered WoT as we type Des. 

[hazelkrs1]

Ok, guys so, the reason there was little action right at EOD is because the Cromwell Approval implies extreme certainty, possibly to the point of a Seer softclaim.  So anyone who was in on it (town or scum) would probably not have gone against me after that.  The fact that not many people reacted to it means that we could possibly have an oldbie player on the mafia team.  Either that or Sili is a wolf and they pissed their pants once I launched my pseudo-CFD on him.

 

As for the people who did react, Stelio's reaction was pretty townish imo.  Yates's was slightly townish but had a hint of displeasure, so that could be either TMI or being mad at not getting DPR lynched.  Des was pretty wolfy as he started defending Sili a lot harder than he had previously and talking about how I let "scum!DPR" off the hook when, if he were town, he probably should've considered alternative possibilities.  If Sili flips town or SK, Des looks pretty bad imo.  That being said, I don't think Des would have pushed a mislynch on DPR this hard as a wolf, so I think wolf!Des and town!DPR is a very unlikely combo.  I think they are either town/town or DPR is a wolf.

 

Sheeping me is null.  Mafia and town would both have had reason to.

 

As for why Sili, I thought he was a superior info lynch to either DPR or Pral.  I also thought he was more likely to flip scum than DPR.  Sili's play has been internally inconsistent both logically and emotionally and reads as self-conscious.  He has also had sketchy interactions with Nyn, Arsis/Pral, Darthe, Thane, AJ, Leelou, Deslami, and myself.  All of those occur before p. 22.

 

Sili was the best lynch today.  We would have learned almost nothing from town flips for Pral and DPR.  I personally hope he flips SK, as that would eliminate an anti-town kill and give us good info on the wolves imo.

 

Anyways wanted to point out one more thing before I left-

 

Enlargened is VERY significant imo.

 

I've already made my point about Wombat's play changing greatly as he was getting townread early on. His posturing at EOD did NOT look like town!Wombat at all

 

Plus, some Yates spew CERTAINLY points to Wombat being a potential teammate

 

[v]##WomScumbat[/v]