[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[Verbal32]

 

 

people that are not consensus wagons like we've had all game

 

I say lets rock the boat

lates, verbal, and you come to my mind when you say non-consensus wagons. but i don't think you're scum.

 

anyway i agree with the general principle. we push for a deep wolf and hope to catch the betas of the pack. it'll give us good information for today's lynch.

Pushing for a deep wolf is what gets us in trouble. Many people think a few players are prob scum. IMO, we lynch there first.

[Sili Quirrels]

what i mean is we push for a deep wolf to get more information from our current pool of suspects. turn over every rock, to rock the boat so to speak, and get the wolves to out themselves more readily.

 

and who knows, if there is a deep wolf, maybe we'll find them if we look hard enough.

[Yates]

@Yates: yes, I think she does.

Alright. But can we agree Pral is Blue if Hally flips scum?

[Verbal32]

 

@Yates: yes, I think she does.

Alright. But can we agree Pral is Blue if Hally flips scum?

Yes

[Yates]

 

 

@Yates: yes, I think she does.

Alright. But can we agree Pral is Blue if Hally flips scum?

 

Yes

 

Cool. With that out of the way...

 

What do you make of the fact Pral just claimed an X-shot ability? Ours is every day. Presumably Arsis, Monstr, and Key are every day. How does that add up? And what about his decision not to RB Des?

[Arsis]

I have no restrictions on my role. It just says town watcher and nothing else.

[Sili Quirrels]

@verb, i do agree we should lynch from our current pool, but what i'm lacking is a scum core. i'm obviously misreading somebody because this game doesn't make as much sense as before.

 

for one, i suspect only one of pral and dice are mafia.

arsis, i want to be scum, but my gut isn't pinging agreement.

and halia's emotional outbursts are supposedly a town tell.

which leaves me with lates, and i'm sort of at a crossroads.

 

where's despothera when you need him anyway >.>

[monstrman]

so sili what sparked the sudden turnaround of the despot read

 

like what specifically?

[Arsis]

Des not being around is kinda fishy.

[Sili Quirrels]

before my lynch scene despothera and tom had a convincingly town conversation over whether i would flip town. when i was in the nether waiting to get my role pm i started reconsidering my reads. in retrospect desp has been town telling ever since he became active, and the only scummy traits are explained by him not being active early on and throughout.

 

i guess the only complaints i have is he's constantly wrong, is a distraction, and is suddenly gone.

[Arsis]

Hallia/serf/des would make sense to me.

[Sili Quirrels]

My wolfpack is distancing. Typical.

 

@tom, the interaction between you and despothera is awfully villagery. It's like neither of you know I'm town, and it's convincing.

 

I read yates and I see a wolf. But sometimes his posts are so village it's hard for me to push him.

 

I read pral, and I see a posturing scum.

 

I read verb, and it makes sense if he's scum in a wolfpack with yates.

 

I read alanna, and I want to clear her, but I'm afraid of being wrong so I don't.

 

I read Bfgkey and I believe them.

 

I read Hallia, and I think besides that one tell Cory gave me last game, she's scum.

For Reference.

[Sili Quirrels]

Hallia/serf/des would make sense to me.

You're going to mislynch me again aren't you

[hazelkrs1]

Hey, I'm around. Been hanging back and observing since I wanted to reevaluate my feelings on pretty much everything about this game, and I'm glad I did since claims have been flying through the thread since then.

 

Back at work tonight so will go into much more detail, but lemme at least comment on all the claims we've had so far, in order of which I find most believable to least believable

 

Manbat-Psychiatrist: his role is essentially confirmed to be in the game with AJ's flip, and he is absurdly townie here and is always looking at things with a solve mindset

 

Hallia-JOAT: The way in which she claims totally jives with how'd she do so as a town JOAT. I have felt her backbone has been showing all game, and in a townie way, not in a way of someone trying to fake backbone to fake a towntell of hers. And both actions make sense imo- Hallia doesn't go for the sneaky clever move with her NA a lot of times, she lets her instinct drive it. I'll have to check to make sure she suspected Pray like she said, but I'm pretty sure I remember her doing so earlier. Makes sense for her to cop him to make sure. And "clearing" AJ after tracking him N1 makes sense as well.

 

Pray-X shot RBer: I buy this too. Before all these claims, I was actually really worried about him. He basically trolls me any game we play together and tells me how wrong I am constantly (even tho I often give out fake reads but w/e), and has told me in the past that as scum he just pockets me and tells me how good my reads are while misleading me and the rest of town. Was worried he was executing the exact scumtell he gave me. However, the claims came out, and well I think they clear him anyways (as Manbat said, even if Hallia is scum she prob wasn't trying to protect a teammate). The one caveat to those would be GF, but then his role claim after that makes basically no sense for a GF since being miscleared would be everything a GF would want- even if they were a GF with limited shot abilities of some kind, I don't think they would reveal something like that right after being cop cleared. And the manner of his claim also tells me he's likely telling the truth, not much reason to lie there (don't really see the protown angle to revealing that role info, but meh). So long story short I believe his claim

 

BFKey-JK: I'm flip flopping on this read. It's a bit associative, but I think some of the other claim stuff that has come out corroborates their claim, and like with Hallia and Pray, I don't think scum!Lates came out and backed up a scummate's claim like that. I also think now it is likely they stuffed a NK, whereas before I thought a town RBer might have stuffed the NK or a Doc, but with all these other claims I kinda doubt a Doc exists in this game tbh, but at the time BFKey wouldn't have guessed that if they were scum.

 

Tbh, BFKey would prob go above Pray here, but yeah leaving them in this order cause #LazyDespot. As far as the claims I don't trust/believe:

 

---

 

Arsis-Watcher: I actually initially believed the claim, cause claiming in the night and the way he did as scum seems like it wouldn't make much sense to me, but now I'm starting to flip flop on that. Arsis DOES seem like the player who always wants to do the unexpected, and I guess I could see him as scum doing that move just for the wifom of "doesn't make sense as scum". I also think he's used wifom arguments recently irt his Watcher claim, like saying he would have already faked a guilty on someone by now or something. I also think he didn't use his role in a protown manner- revealing his results instantly even tho Tracker/Watcher claims late in the day are some of the best ways to catch someone in a lie. Furthermore something about the way he seems to feel about his role kind of makes me think of Yates/Leelou. And that leads me to...

 

Lates-Tracker: Pretty sure they're lying here. Or at the very least, are lying about being town. I think they might be scum Tracker, and are being honest in that they feel their role is useless or something. Gaming the mod, but I could see Krak giving scum a Tracker and Watcher if town is PR heavy, and a leet RBer of some kind to help nullify those PR's as they find them with the Tracker/Watcher combo. Anyways, Yates' play lately is all over the place and makes no sense. He claims to have lied about getting the cop guilty on Pray to test Pray and Hallia, but he would have had no idea Hallia copped Pray. That makes no sense, like, at all. He also seems to be pursuing empty and fruitless arguments a lot- arguing with town PR claims about why they didn't do this, or do that, even while claiming to believe their role sometimes. Looks like him just trying to look busy or try to nudge them and make them look worse without actually hard pushing against them. He did this with Manbat, is doing this with Hallia, yeah just looks scummy. Also he was pursuing the Tommy false trail I was laying down yesterday, only I thought that might be an actual gambit on his part. Since it seems that was never the case, I now think he looks pretty scummy for pushing that angle for so long.

 

As far as Leelou goes, it seems she is soft pushing against the PR claims as well without coming in strong on which ones she believes, which I don't like, but the biggest thing that pinged from her lately for me was asking Hallia about her other shots. That seemed a lot more scum-oriented of a questioning line than town-oriented. Scum would want to know her other shots a lot more, town wanting to catch her in a lie could have easily just waited for more results to see how they jived with other investigative results, and wouldn't need to push her for the rest of her role now.

[hazelkrs1]

Now, all that being said, I'm actually going to ##vote Verbal.

 

I think a lot of the PR claims still make it a somewhat murky situation that will clear up a lot more in the next day or so, so instead I'd like to go with who is now my top scum read.

 

Verb started scumtelling BIG time by ramping up activity so much right after another mislynch. Furthermore, he prob has the most scummy posts after Sili 1.0 in the game, and some of the worst tone as well. I think he doesn't have anything mechanical against him but that's the thing- all the mechanical stuff is kind of inconclusive as it is. Verb is entirely in his scum range tho. A lot of stuff others have pointed out- bad tone, trying to link himself to dead townies, emotional manipulation, flip flopping between soft pushing people and buddying them and hard pushing them as it sees fit, and his #solve looks really bad, like extremely underwhelming and poorly justified.

 

He thinks Arsis is scum and Arsis listed Hallia and two others but prob listed one scummate so Verb thinks it's Hallia so votes her anyways, even tho the PR claim situation is still muddled?

 

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

 

Verb as scum also has a knack for being mentioned as a scum candidate for a while but keeping from being actively pushed as a lynch candidate. I think that ends today. He's been on the fringe of scum candidates and solves for people for too long.

[Sili Quirrels]

holy scribbles. that wall of text.

[Leelou]

*shakes head at Des* 

 

You've been trying to make me scum all game. Wishing hard enough doesn't make it come true, sweetie. 

[hazelkrs1]

*shakes head at Des*

 

You've been trying to make me scum all game. Wishing hard enough doesn't make it come true, sweetie.

This is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF TRUE. I had you as one of my strongest town reads yesterday, and was townreading you D1 as well.

 

This makes me think I'm right on you.

[Arsis]

Des, you're right about me always wanting to do the unexpected. You're wrong about me being scum.

 

 

Also, I think people forget I've played about a dozen or so games ever. I'm still pretty bad at this game. I've never been watcher before. Thanks for the advice. I'll play it better next time.

[Yates]

Lates-Tracker: Pretty sure they're lying here. Or at the very least, are lying about being town. I think they might be scum Tracker

Des - Can you link me to the last game you were in with a Scum Tracker? Pral can't seem to find one. Thanks.

[Yates]

 

Lates-Tracker: Pretty sure they're lying here. Or at the very least, are lying about being town. I think they might be scum Tracker

Des - Can you link me to the last game you were in with a Scum Tracker? Pral can't seem to find one. Thanks.

 

Oh and while you're doing that; feel free to explain why scum would check out Pral N1 [under heavy suspicion] and BFKey on N2 [under heavy suspicion with a JK claim]. Cool. Thanks.

[Leelou]

 

*shakes head at Des*

 

You've been trying to make me scum all game. Wishing hard enough doesn't make it come true, sweetie.

This is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF TRUE. I had you as one of my strongest town reads yesterday, and was townreading you D1 as well.

 

This makes me think I'm right on you.

 

 

You have mused a few times that you thought Verb and I rolled as scum together again. Nope. I have no control over Yates and that botched gambit he tried. He can confirm I got immensely annoyed with him and I didn't know what to do when he did that. I gave everything in my reveal, so whatever. 

 

I've had you as town, but I'm having doubts with your list. Does Pral make sense as a 1 shot RBer and not RB you N1 when you are claiming you are going to shoot Tommy? You don't seem to be looking at all the angles. Hallia claimed something very interesting happened last night, then claimed a cop shot after Yates fake claimed there. I'm having a hard time fitting her role into town when I am now believing BGKey because of how NAs work. 

[hazelkrs1]

 

Lates-Tracker: Pretty sure they're lying here. Or at the very least, are lying about being town. I think they might be scum Tracker

Des - Can you link me to the last game you were in with a Scum Tracker? Pral can't seem to find one. Thanks.

Wifom and weak ass defense. Just because they're uncommon doesn't mean they don't exist

 

You're digging that hole deeper Yates

[TheRagnarok]

Now, all that being said, I'm actually going to ##vote Verbal.

 

I think a lot of the PR claims still make it a somewhat murky situation that will clear up a lot more in the next day or so, so instead I'd like to go with who is now my top scum read.

 

Verb started scumtelling BIG time by ramping up activity so much right after another mislynch. Furthermore, he prob has the most scummy posts after Sili 1.0 in the game, and some of the worst tone as well. I think he doesn't have anything mechanical against him but that's the thing- all the mechanical stuff is kind of inconclusive as it is. Verb is entirely in his scum range tho. A lot of stuff others have pointed out- bad tone, trying to link himself to dead townies, emotional manipulation, flip flopping between soft pushing people and buddying them and hard pushing them as it sees fit, and his #solve looks really bad, like extremely underwhelming and poorly justified.

 

He thinks Arsis is scum and Arsis listed Hallia and two others but prob listed one scummate so Verb thinks it's Hallia so votes her anyways, even tho the PR claim situation is still muddled?

 

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

 

Verb as scum also has a knack for being mentioned as a scum candidate for a while but keeping from being actively pushed as a lynch candidate. I think that ends today. He's been on the fringe of scum candidates and solves for people for too long.

Oh, you mean like I've been trying to do ALL GAME?

[Yates]

 

 

Lates-Tracker: Pretty sure they're lying here. Or at the very least, are lying about being town. I think they might be scum Tracker

Des - Can you link me to the last game you were in with a Scum Tracker? Pral can't seem to find one. Thanks.

 

Wifom and weak ass defense. Just because they're uncommon doesn't mean they don't exist

 

You're digging that hole deeper Yates

 

So no? You could have just said no. What about my other question?