[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[Sili Quirrels]

I would prefer not to get insulted along the way, though. so these special comments, or telling me i'm playing bad because you're playing bad... it's just silly. i'm not going overboard here. if you think i'm scum, and you're village, you'll get a mislynch like you deserve. i won't take responsibility for it.

 

i don't want to hear this nonsense after my death, like i was playing so badly i was lynched.

 

no, you just fell for it, hook line and sinker. as tom said, i can't carry a village on my own. i've given plethora of reasons why i'm village, implicitly. i haven't gone out of my way to demonstrate it, but even still. i've stuck to my guns, and i've pushed who i think needs pushing and have defended who i thought needed defending. i've given reasons for all my reads, and have been right about various things too.

 

i don't need to be right every single time. no one is. to be a good villager.

[Sili Quirrels]

Honestly, you have said a number of things that would ping any townie.  Like last game, I'm starting to come around to the fact that that is just you being you.  But damn dude, you can set off radars.

 

If you say odd things, don't be surprised when people suspect you.  Unless you're saying them so that they'll suspect you.  Either way. 

 

like boasting i was clear blue, or self-voting, or giving up, or getting worked over getting lynched, or saying the village is being daft? I've conceded these points. anything else i need to be wary of?

[monstrman]

Having poor tone is not playin badly, and I agree that the full fault of getting a mislynch lies in the village as a whole, however if a person gets mislynched they are not free from the fault of getting mislynched.

 

They are also at fault for not clearing themselves properly. Those who are reading them incorrectly should indeed receive some of the blame but sometimes clearing suspicion from you is jujust bringing yourself to try as hard as you can to do so. You'd be surprised how often that works.

 

For example: one of my favorite ways to clear myself as a villager is to cite from memory my progression that can be ttracked itt through votes. If you can recall the reasons you did things and cite them from memory it works rather well to clear you. It takes a lot of effort to clear yourself, but if you don't put the effort in people will lynch you every time.

 

Of course there will always be a few people who are stubborn/wolves/not around to change but trying as hard as you can to not get lynched bed makes your lynch a possibility instead of an inevitability

[monstrman]

I hate phones

[TheRagnarok]

I would prefer not to get insulted along the way, though. so these special comments, or telling me i'm playing bad because you're playing bad... it's just silly. i'm not going overboard here. if you think i'm scum, and you're village, you'll get a mislynch like you deserve. i won't take responsibility for it.

 

i don't want to hear this nonsense after my death, like i was playing so badly i was lynched.

 

no, you just fell for it, hook line and sinker. as tom said, i can't carry a village on my own. i've given plethora of reasons why i'm village, implicitly. i haven't gone out of my way to demonstrate it, but even still. i've stuck to my guns, and i've pushed who i think needs pushing and have defended who i thought needed defending. i've given reasons for all my reads, and have been right about various things too.

 

i don't need to be right every single time. no one is. to be a good villager.

Ah, no offense meant.  Hell, I make special comments every game regardless of alignment.  Everyone does.  And if they deny it, they're lying.  So don't take it as a personal insult, it's just a viewpoint on gameplay in this particular thread.  Not even necessarily bad or good.  Just my observations.  Don't let stuff like that affect you personally.  Sometimes townies who do nothing wrong get lynched.  You move on.  My advice, don't overplay the 'town bought a scum narrative' angle in the thread.  Let your flip do that for you.

 

Honestly, you have said a number of things that would ping any townie.  Like last game, I'm starting to come around to the fact that that is just you being you.  But damn dude, you can set off radars.

 

If you say odd things, don't be surprised when people suspect you.  Unless you're saying them so that they'll suspect you.  Either way. 

 

like boasting i was clear blue, or self-voting, or giving up, or getting worked over getting lynched, or saying the village is being daft? I've conceded these points. anything else i need to be wary of?

 

The first three always ping me.  First can be scum trying to create a false narrative ITT.  Second and third can often be used as emotional grabs.  Which I ignore 99.9999% of the time.  The last two depend on how you portray them. 

[Sili Quirrels]

Having poor tone is not playin badly, and I agree that the full fault of getting a mislynch lies in the village as a whole, however if a person gets mislynched they are not free from the fault of getting mislynched.

 

They are also at fault for not clearing themselves properly. Those who are reading them incorrectly should indeed receive some of the blame but sometimes clearing suspicion from you is jujust bringing yourself to try as hard as you can to do so. You'd be surprised how often that works.

 

For example: one of my favorite ways to clear myself as a villager is to cite from memory my progression that can be ttracked itt through votes. If you can recall the reasons you did things and cite them from memory it works rather well to clear you. It takes a lot of effort to clear yourself, but if you don't put the effort in people will lynch you every time.

 

Of course there will always be a few people who are stubborn/wolves/not around to change but trying as hard as you can to not get lynched bed makes your lynch a possibility instead of an inevitability

sure.

 

arsis:

 

thought it was interesting he was a self-labeled sociopath. wanted to give a good read of him, through doing an iso, but got lazy. i thought his reasoning was poor, and he had bad logic flow, and he was too stubborn to admit it. i thought that as scum he would take the easier road and fall into the crowd, but also thought it was possible he went against the crowd because it was a part of his meta. second tier lynch, and easy lynch bait for wolfpack. vig should night kill.

 

turn the clock, and he claims beloved princess, which wasn't scummy. then claims watcher in... a wow, because like why? but then he's totally serious about it and no one counterclaims so i'm like... ugh. this is just messy. i don't want to deal with it. and put him on a hotplate for later digestion.

 

[hazelkrs1]

Jesus y'all are still posting a ton

 

Got a bunch of quotes grabbed tho, lemme get to the most important set first

[monstrman]

It is so much harder for a scum to recite from memory the reasons they suspected/changed their minds on people because they are faking the suspicion/not changing their minds. they very often have an extremely hard time recalling a reason they changed their mind on someone because they didn't have a strong reason that stuck in their memory. They only needed to look good and go with the flow.

 

Do you have any idea how hard it would be for a wolf to explain all those things in the way that Sili did? Like seriously guys this dude is an obvious monstrman style villager.

[hazelkrs1]

It is so much harder for a scum to recite from memory the reasons they suspected/changed their minds on people because they are faking the suspicion/not changing their minds. they very often have an extremely hard time recalling a reason they changed their mind on someone because they didn't have a strong reason that stuck in their memory. They only needed to look good and go with the flow.

 

Do you have any idea how hard it would be for a wolf to explain all those things in the way that Sili did? Like seriously guys this dude is an obvious monstrman style villager.

No, you're wrong Monstr. He isn't even close to being an obvious villager, and is in fact EXTREMELY likely to flip scum here.

 

It's actually not that difficult at all to recite rote reasons for suspecting someone, especially when you always keep it vague and nondescript like Sili has done all game

 

Moreover he jumps around way too much for his scum reads to be genuine imo. When he's been town he's MUCH more focused on the People he's found scummy.

[monstrman]

Let me give you an example of how wolf! Sili would have answered this in bizarre world.

 

"I originally suspected arsis was scum because he had poor tone in the beginning and I didn't like his logic. (insert single reason to be suspicious of person here, Hammer it in as hard as possible.) Now he claimed watcher so he's town I guess."

[monstrman]

Sili do your progression of AJ next

[monstrman]

I'll keep defending you as long as you keep trying as hard as you can to clear yourself.

 

I need your help to convince people

[hazelkrs1]

Monstr hope you know you're defending a wolf

 

That's not very wise fyi

[monstrman]

We'll see who's right in postgame/after he flips if you guys lynch him

[TheRagnarok]

It is so much harder for a scum to recite from memory the reasons they suspected/changed their minds on people because they are faking the suspicion/not changing their minds. they very often have an extremely hard time recalling a reason they changed their mind on someone because they didn't have a strong reason that stuck in their memory. They only needed to look good and go with the flow.

 

Do you have any idea how hard it would be for a wolf to explain all those things in the way that Sili did? Like seriously guys this dude is an obvious monstrman style villager.

I have seen this theory utilized and I can't deny it's a very, very good one against a wolf team that has never seen this tactic before.

[Sili Quirrels]

tom:

 

 

he pings me for some reason, when i read page 6 or 7 or something. i try to ascertain why, and put it down as a tendency to dance around. i figure that in my first game with he was like a bull with how he plowed through reads. whereas when he's scum he dances around, is more evasive, and shows less of a stubborn streak. alanna says at some point something about how tom behaves, and i agree with her (though i forget the words she used now). i figure tomcat is probably in between his town and scum extremes. then he claims beloved princess, and my mind goes to the optimal mechanical reaction. cop investigates. vig shoots arsis, we lynch a wolf.

 

it turns out this was the wrong approach because tom ripley is clever and wouldn't set himself up in a situation he was likely to lose. so a cop couldn't clear him. even still it wasn't smart to vig or lynch tomcat. and at some point, before or after this, i decided he was a 90% town. the exact reason is because tomcat takes mafia very seriously and pulls punches that would be otherwise unnecessary to ensure feuds aren't carried out of game. after he rages at the village for being daft, i say something like i'd be miffed if he were scum here, and was pretending to be negative. and instead of telling me i shouldn't take it so seriously, like i would expect if he were wolfpack, he says why he is a wolf (which obviously no sane person would take at face value if they knew tom ripley) and i concluded that his reaction to my out of game speech with his in game speech was awfully village of him.

 

though that trap wasn't intended, it probably(?) worked well enough. later i change it to a 70% because he started scum!telling again. then he manipulates village into a cfd on me, then a cfd on thane, which is totally inane. then he tries to manipulate me several times (he actually reads the thread flow and tries to aim things at people to guide them to what he wants to do - small nudges).

 

However, at around the same time i figure out desp is acting differently, he makes a case for desp. and desp being likely scum has put him up to 80% or 90% if desp flips. nevertheless i try to keep an open mind because he has tricked me once or twice.

 

[monstrman]

So despot about Sili being vague

[Sili Quirrels]

Ragnarok:

 

 

he comes into the thread, says he hadn't recieved a pm. i figure, well if krak forgot a pm he's likely vanilla, and i was kind of on a high from being so right about stuff (probably being right about tom ripley in the tmf game) i say it aloud. around 4 or 5 posts later i doubletake and consider he's lying.

 

in general he reminds me of the ragnarok in the vs game so i haven't had reason to question his alignment, and i already have a scum team so there's really no point.

 

[Sili Quirrels]

So despot about Sili being vague

rough terrain ahead.

[monstrman]

Sili Sili do me do me

[hazelkrs1]

Okay not going to spoiler this excerpt because this is the person who got caught most cleanly by my gambit-

 

##Vote Alanna

 

So...how does this make a difference? I mean, if Arsis is to believed, then no one visited Tommy last night, meaning he wasn't doc protected. Which either means Despo is town and is lying to get Tommy lynched, Despo is scum and is lying to get Tommy lynched, or Despo is town and was roleblocked by a town roleblocker.

 

This right here is as good as a scumclaim. Others pointed it out immediately after, but yeah Alanna slips and doesn't put what WOULD HAVE BEEN prob the easiest and most likely outcome here- that I was telling the truth, and that Tommy was scum and had a scumbro RB me

 

But why doesn't she list this as a possibility? Because she knows two things- that Tommy isn't scum, and that the scum team didn't RB me

 

Bing bang boom. She slipped, and is scum. Period, end of story.

 

Or, you know, Arsis is lying. 

 

She slips this in immediately as a little blurb, but again doesn't mention the possibility of Tommy being scum EVEN THO EARLIER was entertaining that idea (I'll post that in a little while)

 

Incidentally, both Sili and Alanna also did exactly what I suspected scum would do in this situation- speculate more about a town RB'er having blocked me (since scum would have known they didn't block me)

 

These quotes are before the slip above

 

besides can't a roleblocker be town too... why can't a town roleblocker believe tom's claim and despot's and roleblock despot. :|

 

 

I've seen town roleblockers, though, so... isn't it possible a town RB blocked Despo?

 

@Rags: I still haven't seen anything particularly scummy for Verb. I know you found his tone fake in some posts, but he sounds like the same usual Verb to me.

 

So yeah, both were throwing out the possibility of a town RB'er. Now, I had a STRONG suspicion of Sili being scum before this, but also had some niggling feelings against Alanna as well, which I will get to later. Regardless, both exhibiting the scum reactions I was looking for with my gambit here makes both extremely good scum suspects for me (Alanna's slip makes her LOCK SCUM)

 

Here are the immediate reactions to her slip:

 

Why would Despot have been blocked by a Town RB?

 

I like that AJ immediately asks this, is in fact the first, however he isn't really pointing out a slip per se. He seems more confused about the mention of a town RBing me in the first place. The confusion reads very genuine however, doesn't look like a wolf trying to play dumb.

 

 

So...how does this make a difference? I mean, if Arsis is to believed, then no one visited Tommy last night, meaning he wasn't doc protected. Which either means Despo is town and is lying to get Tommy lynched, Despo is scum and is lying to get Tommy lynched, or Despo is town and was roleblocked by a town roleblocker. 

Why must it be a town?

 

That aside, I think the chances are low that both the vig and wolfpack nk were blocked separately, by mere happenstance.

 

 

Sili calls out the slip somewhat, and in fact this is one of the ONLY things going in Sili's favor right now for him possibly being town this game. Def not clearable however, since he asks it in a softball sort of way

 

 

Or, you know, Arsis is lying.

Or Despo is telling the truth and was blocked by a scum roleblocker. 4th option you conveniently left out.

 

 

This helps LOCK CLEAR Arsis however, since he calls out the slip boldly and cleanly. Already believed the Watcher claim before this however so meh.

 

 

 

Or, you know, Arsis is lying.

Or Despo is telling the truth and was blocked by a scum roleblocker. 4th option you conveniently left out.

 

 

I guess if Tommy is scum, then it's possible. I was thinking from the angle of Tommy telling the truth about being BP.

 

 

Bahahahaahaha NOPE. This response is invalid. Alanna said "Which means either blah, blah, or blah" and followed it up with "or blah" indicating she was trying to cover all bases. There is NO WAY I can be convinced she was trying to look at it from the angle that Tommy was def telling the truth, since that is clearly not the case if you read how she delivered her posts, and moreover if she was really a confused villager trying to figure out a confusing situation like she tries to act after this, then there is no way she automatically assumes Tommy is telling the truth.

 

No, town!Alanna would NOT have left out the possibility of Tommy being scum there. She knew Tommy wasn't scum, and knew scum didn't block me.

 

Also, I think we can all see that there is potentially at least one person in this game who could be town and would block Despo. He's only said it a few times now  

 

So Alanna is talking about Sili here, and the way she says "who could be town" entrenches her scumminess even moar, and makes it very likely that Sili is scum with her. Also looks like her trying to set up Sili for saying he blocked me had I not revealed the gambit already

 

The way I see it, Tommy, Arsis, and Despo could all be telling the truth if Despo was blocked by a town RB. I'm not saying it's a very likely scenario - mostly just because I think town Roleblockers are not used very often, and, as Sili pointed out, it's just unlikely that the scum nk and a vig kill are blocked on the same night by two different roles.

 

So, possible? Yes. But I'm feeling it's likelier one of them is lying.

 

Frankly, I'd like to sleep on it, I'll be heading to bed soon anyway and I'm too tired to think on it much more right now. Want to hear what everyone else thinks, too.

 

 

The hilarious thing here is that Alanna herself says it's unlikely that a town RB'er blocked me... and yet that has been really the only possibility she has focused on since I first said I legit shot Tommy.

 

She was settling on this possibility, as unlikely as it was, because she had inside knowledge, yo

 

[monstrman]

The funny thing is espeespecially that if alanna is scum it spews all of despot/tommy/arsis clear too from your case, des

[monstrman]

Not that it's needed, but the spew pretty much makes it concret

[monstrman]

Phones. Aids.

[monstrman]

Re:alanna saying Sili could be town:

 

You could take that from the perspective that she immediately believed your claim that you were roleblocked and immediately tinfoiled that Sili was the town rber as well