[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Thane Vakarian]

@Alanna: the only way i can log in from work is like this: open google chrome in private mode, log in to facebook, stay logged in there, open new tab, log in to dragonmount, keep both tabs open. If i close facebook, DM doesn't work. I tried to bypass work regulations and firewalls diffirently, but alas, didn't work. Besides, i don't even own a smartphone, and i'm sooo glad i don't get sms-notifications here.

 

ftr: i still think you're town Alanna

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Did you factor that into your early scum read of Salami? I don't remember.

Yes, that was what originally made me put him in the scum pile. Look back at the argument I provided against her.

 

 

You know how somebody comes into the thread with that genuine swagger, like they own the place, and there's nothing mafia can do about it?

 

That's not her.

There's no reason anybody in the game should have been buying what I was selling about Leelou there. Even if somebody thought she WAS confident based on her....sarcasm?...early in the thread, am I saying it was missing? Am I saying it was there, and it shouldn't have been?

 

Yet he backed it because I made "a good point".

I read your post as saying since she's NOT being confident, you're reading her as scum. You meant the opposite?? That's not clear at all.

 

 

YES!  It's not clear.  That's what I'm getting at.  What I said was deliberately vague and deliberately worthless.  I wanted to see how Leelou, specifically, would respond to it because I figured she would be pretty unhappy if she rolled scum again and it would spill over into her response.  

 

So how could he have thought I made a good point?

[Tommyrod]

That's right. I remember he confused me with that one at the time.

 

Would you be mad if I said he's probable town despite that? If yes, how mad?

[Clovdyx]

That's right. I remember he confused me with that one at the time.

 

Would you be mad if I said he's probable town despite that? If yes, how mad?

 

I won't be mad at all if you actually say something that gives me a legitimate reason to reconsider my position.  You know I'm not afraid to be wrong, and you should know by now I don't mind being shown a reason why I might be wrong.  

 

What I do mind is being explicitly told I'm wrong without a reason of why I'm wrong.  And it especially pisses me off if you make it seem like I'm scummy/playing badly based on whether or not I am wrong.

[Tommyrod]

Here's my problem Clov: you are an analytical player. You like logic. I am an emotional / behavioral player. I like intent. I think you might be technically and logically/i] correct that Salami really makes very little sense at times and the things you're arguing are scummy about him are scummy in a vacuum. But despite that I find you to be the scummier of the two during your spats because of how you can't see that his play is too uncalculated and too haphazard if he's scum. So you can be correct that he's scummy in a vacuum and still and be scum pushing a point that you believes in because you think the townie should be lynched for bad play and are mad it isn't happening. Do you understand how that's possible, even likely, from my POV?

[Tommyrod]

Clov, here's an example you should understand:

 

Your Final Fantasy game. Me arguing with Alot over his conditional bomb role. Pushing the point SO HARD that what he's claiming doesn't add up.

 

You're me, and salami is Alot.

[Clovdyx]

Here's my problem Clov: you are an analytical player. You like logic. I am an emotional / behavioral player. I like intent. I think you might be technically and logically/i] correct that Salami really makes very little sense at times and the things you're arguing are scummy about him are scummy in a vacuum. But despite that I find you to be the scummier of the two during your spats because of how you can't see that his play is too uncalculated and too haphazard if he's scum. So you can be correct that he's scummy in a vacuum and still and be scum pushing a point that you believes in because you think the townie should be lynched for bad play and are mad it isn't happening. Do you understand how that's possible, even likely, from my POV?

 

Yeah, I understand how that's possible.  Pretty sure you know I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't push this case if I were scum and he's town.  But I think you should also know that I'm going to push this case if I'm town.  The bolded seems to suggest that you think my argument has some merit of accuracy, even if you disagree with the conclusion.  I can accept you disagreeing with me, but...I'm not gonna abandon what I think just because it's met with resistance.  

 

You're spot on that it's uncalculated and haphazard, but I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't subscribe to "too scummy to be scum".  Maybe it's a cultural difference from playing on WF, but I've seen incredibly gutsy, risky, and sometimes stupid plays from people as scum, just like I've seen it as town.  I'm gonna take what's happened in the thread, in this game, over what happened in another thread in the past every single time.

[Pralaya]

Back from the weekend and ended up catching the game upto 50 pages. Still 50 more to go. Sigh.

Let me clear out my town reads so far in the game.

AJ: I like the tone of his posts so far. More like trying to solve the game. It is difficult to just clear him based on meta but from what I have seen, I didn't see any opportunistic votes. his only serious vote was on Wombat and he did not vote him until he was perfectly clear why. This seems town AJ here

Des: Des typically tends to focus more on small things and tunnel when he is scum. As town, he is more looking around and changing his reads often early D1. Posts like these makes me trust Des is town
 

All my town reads are fading like a Michael J. Fox picture

I disagree with some of his reads though but so far he is looking good.

Alanna: Difficult to catch Alanna as scum so early in the game and would need to see her vote patterns before making a read on her. But so far she has clearly given out her reads and made her stances, like in these posts and here. I like those and feel she is genuine here.

[Pralaya]

Now, on to slightly town reads. 

 

Womby: Again, someone difficult to read early in the game. His post-by-post analysis is what he usually does as town. He voted Sili and since unvoted, which is generally fine as he has given his reasons and detailed analysis. His responses to Tommy and Andrej have seemed good so far. What I didn't like was his entrance declaring that he will be slanking. Now, that is not something that I would have expected from Wombat and that seems slightly bad. 

 

Thane: You can typically catch Thane as he is an instinctive player and tends to do slip slightly in the heat of the game. SO, far I have not seen anything that makes Thane stand out. He has been kind of active initially, which seems a bit odd but I can see that as an initial excitement which he has usually at the start of the game. His response ot pressure of the votes on him seemed townish .... like this and this. 

 

Csarmi: Csarmi has been quite active and in a way his activity points to him being town. His self-vote on getting minor pressure was weird but apparently this is not the first time he has done as town. So, that's a null in itself. Otherwise, he is posting fine.

[Pralaya]

Now, the nulls and slight scums.
 
Sili: I don't know his meta and frankly his posts have not made a lot of sense to me. I see him make an effort to give reads on players and votes but Will need to see his voting patterns to get better reads.
 
Yates and SP: Null till what I have read. 
 
Verbal: Mainly a gut feel.He goes after an easy catch Thane and nudges csarmi here. Would need to see more from him before getting a good read on him.
 
Clov: His initial Leelou gambit was meh. He clears Tommy quite fast. Here he says that if Tommy is scum, he would come after him for voting Leelou and since he didn't come hard, he feels Tommy is town. But, Tommy did indeed come back later on Clov and it is worrying that he still feels he is town.

[Pralaya]

Now the scums:
 
Hally: Lot more playful than I have seen. Something that she did as scum in the Spaceballs game too. Buddies Tom randomly here , votes AJ randomly etc. Her vote on Alanna was fair but follows it by quickly unvoting her and randomly votes Wombat. Something off here. 
  
Leelou: A lot sparse than usual. I read the whole thing that she has been scum 6 straight games. A town Leelou would have questioned lurkers by now and not lurk herself :)
 
Nyn: Her play this game seems odd. On one hand, she is trying well to try and solve the game. But, I feel there are these slight nudges that makes me feel bad about her. Things like these. Subtle hints to vig someone. 

Can someone please vig Clov tonight? mkaythanks.

 
Or, even when she has a scum read on Csarmi, trying to play really safe
 

Salami, spare me.
 
 
 
For the sake of my sanity, I'm gonna be putting Salami on mute for the rest of the game.
 
 
Still game on lynching him, but if everyone else isn't interested then I'll drop it for now.

 
It is a bit difficult to get a good read of Nynaeve and I try to see these subtle posts and that's what makes me feel she is scum. 
 
She is also buddying with Tommy and leelou and both are my scum reads. All three went after Clov. She went after Csarmi along with Tommy. Don't think it is mindmeld !
 
Tommy: I always tinfoil on Tommy. One of the ways that I try to see is if he goes after opportunistic pushes. As town, he is usually shopping around to see how people react to pressure. As scum, he catches small errors by townies and that is exactly what I am seeing in this game. Whether going after Thane talking about his cockiness, or against Clov for his "gambit against Leelou" or against Wombat for his opening tone. Those are all easy pushes and that is what he has been pursuing. Really think he is scum this game.

[Pralaya]

Again, this is only till 50 pages and I am still trying to catch up with the rest. 80 pages over friday and the weekend is just too much,

[Tommyrod]

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

[Pralaya]

 

Checking in.

 

As an aside, rule no 14 is meh. I don't remember a single game where I had more posts than the mod

Go rule 14 yourself

 

 

(Seriously, I hope you are a wee bit moar active this game Pray, you've had some awesome instincts lately as town)

 

 

 

Checking in.

 

As an aside, rule no 14 is meh. I don't remember a single game where I had more posts than the mod

Go rule 14 yourself

 

 

(Seriously, I hope you are a wee bit moar active this game Pray, you've had some awesome instincts lately as town)

 

 

Well, I answered this in the deadthread in Spaceballs game.

 

One of the reasons I think I get good reads is that I read the entire D1 game in  one go and not in real time. It is usually 2 days before I start reading the game and a good sitting gets me the reads. That is usually why I am kind of inactive D1 but pickup the game proportionally D2 onwards. When I start playing real-time, I start to tinfoil and blunder  :)

 

Of course, one disadvantage is that it is hard for me to convince people but I guess that is part of the game. 

[Pralaya]

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

 

It is more opportunistic pushes than easy pushes. In all their case, you were mainly basing it on one point - in case of Clov, it was his response to Lellou gambit and in case of Wombat, it was his opening tone. I am not pointing out the type of player you are pushing but mainly the reasons why you are pushing them

[Alanna]

Okay, so as to some of the other popular lynch candidates atm -

 

Clov - he's still really very null to me. I just don't feel like I've seen anything weird or off from him, do in terms of him being scum, all I really have to go off of is tommy and Nyn's insistence that he's not playing true to his town game. I just have no way of knowing that. Nyn is a strong town read for me so far. I wouldn't say I absolutely won't lynch Clov today, but I'd feel a lot better going after someone I'm not so null on.

 

Wombat - to be honest, you're going to be hard pressed to get a vote from me on Wombat right now. Not because he's super townie to me or anything, but I'm just seeing typical play from him so far. The earlier play from him that a lot of people didn't like just seemed to me like Wombat being provocative to get reactions, which I've seen from both town Wombat and scum Wombat.

 

Csarmi - still a suspect for me and could still go with a lynch on him. I do see what some of y'all are saying about him being emotional and playing a bad townie game; that's partly why I decided to focus more on Hallia atm. But I could still easily go with csarmi for, we'll, a whole lot of things.

[Clovdyx]

Pral - two questions.

 

1) How many pages do you have in the thread, total?

2) When you say through fifty pages, you mean 1 - 50, and not the most recent 50, right?

[csarmi]

 

 

Did you factor that into your early scum read of Salami? I don't remember.

Yes, that was what originally made me put him in the scum pile. Look back at the argument I provided against her.

You know how somebody comes into the thread with that genuine swagger, like they own the place, and there's nothing mafia can do about it?

That's not her.

There's no reason anybody in the game should have been buying what I was selling about Leelou there. Even if somebody thought she WAS confident based on her....sarcasm?...early in the thread, am I saying it was missing? Am I saying it was there, and it shouldn't have been?

Yet he backed it because I made "a good point".

I read your post as saying since she's NOT being confident, you're reading her as scum. You meant the opposite?? That's not clear at all.

I read it that way too.

[Hallia]

I'm on mobile, don't experct anything fancy

 

I'm confident Csarmi is town. I'm pretty sure Cliv is too.

 

[v] Wombat [/v]

[Alanna]

@ thane - thanks for the tip, I'll try it when I get back from lunch. We only have Firefox tho, so not sure if that'll make a difference.

[Thane Vakarian]

it's the only way how i can bypass all the work filters. Usually i take private mode so the IT guys don't spy

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

It is more opportunistic pushes than easy pushes. In all their case, you were mainly basing it on one point - in case of Clov, it was his response to Lellou gambit and in case of Wombat, it was his opening tone. I am not pointing out the type of player you are pushing but mainly the reasons why you are pushing them

But not only is that not what I've been doing, it's also not a useful tell. Maybe later in the game, but D1 there often can be one moment that is so bad it merits a scum claim. Clov's gambit backtrack qualifies, just like TG's posts to Vos were scum claims last game.

 

Still, if that's your criteria for scummy behavior, why is Clov not scum when his push on Salami is the most "singular" push reasoning in this thread?

[Pralaya]

Pral - two questions.

 

1) How many pages do you have in the thread, total?

2) When you say through fifty pages, you mean 1 - 50, and not the most recent 50, right?

 

1-50, yes. All my points in my posts cover what happened there.

[csarmi]

Inbefore Pral will avoid getting modkilled

[csarmi]

Pral I disagree with most of your reads ans it bothers me.