[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

Verbal32 · October 13, 2014

Is there a portion of the game that will let me catch up best while obtaining current reads on people?
Few big things are the Leelou/Clov event you ignored at the time, the Salami meltdown and responses, Hallia being pressured, and the Great Siliami Wars last night. Dunno what pages.
Ooh, was that a snipe in there? I didn't ignore it - it was ongoing when I last posted.
You were posting before and after. I would expect you to have a comment on Leelou given how discussion was about her for 2-3 pages.

I remember commenting on Salami following Clov with an agreement when Clov never stated his "reason" until after.

Has Salami done something to correct this, or is this still the reason he's posting so much??

csarmi · October 13, 2014

I dunno Tom.

I dont believe the thread looked that way by page 50. Lemme go back when that was.

Tommyrod · October 13, 2014

Is there a portion of the game that will let me catch up best while obtaining current reads on people?
Few big things are the Leelou/Clov event you ignored at the time, the Salami meltdown and responses, Hallia being pressured, and the Great Siliami Wars last night. Dunno what pages.
Ooh, was that a snipe in there? I didn't ignore it - it was ongoing when I last posted.
You were posting before and after. I would expect you to have a comment on Leelou given how discussion was about her for 2-3 pages.
I remember commenting on Salami following Clov with an agreement when Clov never stated his "reason" until after.

Has Salami done something to correct this, or is this still the reason he's posting so much??

Sounds like you and Clov are gonna get along.

Pralaya · October 13, 2014

I disagree with a lot of this stuff.

Me - I didn't say anything remotely close to what you're claiming I did. You're saying I claimed "Tom would address this if he's scum"; I said "He wouldn't address this if he's scum". Him coming at me isn't scumtelling, it's towntelling; he (quite understandably) didn't follow why I was voting her so engaging me gives him an opportunity to evaluate my thought process. Tom as mafia would know I'm town and doesn't NEED to evaluate my thought process. The only plausible reason to get at me for it as scum is if he's teammates with Leelou.

I misunderstood your post then. I read it as telling that Tom would come after you if he was scum because that is what my meta on Tom is. He wouldn't let a town slip off so easily.

Leelou - I really don't have any insight on whether or not she would question lurkers, but that seems like a pretty weak suspicion. Do you associate her town game as really vocal or spammy? Also, I see nowhere in the first fifty pages she went after me. If you haven't read the most recent pages, I'm very interested to know where you got the impression she had.

She is more vocal. Maybe this game is too fast for her, but this sin't the typical Leelou I have seen. I am mainly looking at my reads from a meta perspective,

Nyn - First, I think you're misrepping her suspicion as a subtle nudge. Nyn has been the person who put forth the most effort into actually casing/explaining a lean on me IMO, and I'm pretty sure I'm her top scum suspect. I don't appreciate the vig request, but at the same time, if she's really that convinced....why wouldn't she want me shot?

Second, what are you thinking she's buddying them with? If you're talking about the similar reads, you should be more suspicious of Tom/Leelou. Nyn was the first person to accuse me, and she went after Csarmi pretty quickly. Leelou got her vote in first, but Nyn was only a few minutes behind despite doing an ISO on him. It could have been coordinated, but she's certainly not portraying a sheeping of his read.

I replied to her on similar points. I am indeed suspicious of Tm/Leelou too. I do realise now that all three buddying does not make sense and I would probably get better reads as I progress catching up the game.

Tom - First, you said he went at Csarmi (in your Nyn section). He questioned him once, but I'm pretty sure he was already hard defending Csarmi within the first fifty pages. I'll go back and check to see, but that seems really inconsistent with how the thread went down. Also don't like the implication that Wombat, Thane, and me are town Tom is nitpicking, when you only have slight town reads on them and a slight scum read on me.

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

I'm in the middle of something.... but when I finish I'm going to look through my posts and find the exact sequence.

csarmi · October 13, 2014

But you're voting me? O.o

4 scum leans, one vote. Do the math.

Page 50 end.

Tommyrod · October 13, 2014

Pral when did you become a big proponent of meta reads? I don't remember that.

csarmi · October 13, 2014

Is there a portion of the game that will let me catch up best while obtaining current reads on people?
Few big things are the Leelou/Clov event you ignored at the time, the Salami meltdown and responses, Hallia being pressured, and the Great Siliami Wars last night. Dunno what pages.
Ooh, was that a snipe in there? I didn't ignore it - it was ongoing when I last posted.
You were posting before and after. I would expect you to have a comment on Leelou given how discussion was about her for 2-3 pages.
I remember commenting on Salami following Clov with an agreement when Clov never stated his "reason" until after.

Has Salami done something to correct this, or is this still the reason he's posting so much??

Oh there's been some new shinies. Just watch and learn sonny.

Pralaya · October 13, 2014

Pral when did you become a big proponent of meta reads? I don't remember that.

On D1, always. Which explains why I post little on D1.

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

It's like he took some drugs before he wrote that, right?

He should share the wealth.

Clovdyx · October 13, 2014

I disagree with a lot of this stuff.

Me - I didn't say anything remotely close to what you're claiming I did. You're saying I claimed "Tom would address this if he's scum"; I said "He wouldn't address this if he's scum". Him coming at me isn't scumtelling, it's towntelling; he (quite understandably) didn't follow why I was voting her so engaging me gives him an opportunity to evaluate my thought process. Tom as mafia would know I'm town and doesn't NEED to evaluate my thought process. The only plausible reason to get at me for it as scum is if he's teammates with Leelou.

I misunderstood your post then. I read it as telling that Tom would come after you if he was scum because that is what my meta on Tom is. He wouldn't let a town slip off so easily.

Leelou - I really don't have any insight on whether or not she would question lurkers, but that seems like a pretty weak suspicion. Do you associate her town game as really vocal or spammy? Also, I see nowhere in the first fifty pages she went after me. If you haven't read the most recent pages, I'm very interested to know where you got the impression she had.

She is more vocal. Maybe this game is too fast for her, but this sin't the typical Leelou I have seen. I am mainly looking at my reads from a meta perspective,

Nyn - First, I think you're misrepping her suspicion as a subtle nudge. Nyn has been the person who put forth the most effort into actually casing/explaining a lean on me IMO, and I'm pretty sure I'm her top scum suspect. I don't appreciate the vig request, but at the same time, if she's really that convinced....why wouldn't she want me shot?

Second, what are you thinking she's buddying them with? If you're talking about the similar reads, you should be more suspicious of Tom/Leelou. Nyn was the first person to accuse me, and she went after Csarmi pretty quickly. Leelou got her vote in first, but Nyn was only a few minutes behind despite doing an ISO on him. It could have been coordinated, but she's certainly not portraying a sheeping of his read.

I replied to her on similar points. I am indeed suspicious of Tm/Leelou too. I do realise now that all three buddying does not make sense and I would probably get better reads as I progress catching up the game.

Tom - First, you said he went at Csarmi (in your Nyn section). He questioned him once, but I'm pretty sure he was already hard defending Csarmi within the first fifty pages. I'll go back and check to see, but that seems really inconsistent with how the thread went down. Also don't like the implication that Wombat, Thane, and me are town Tom is nitpicking, when you only have slight town reads on them and a slight scum read on me.

I don't think I buy you misinterpreting me. I feel what I said was pretty easy to follow.

What even is happening ITG?

For the last like FIVE games I've been endlessly tinfoiled on for being a good townie because "that's what Tom does as a wolf."

This game multiple people have told me "Tom is town because he wouldn't do this as a wolf."

Like you guys even know.

You're certainly capable of doing it as wolf, but why bother? Mafia!Tom would know my alignment and know hers. You could ask me to elaborate with quotes and make a legitimate case off of it -something I clearly wouldn't be able to do with how the game has currently unfolded - or you could just let me run around crazy and try to convince people to lynch town off ????reasons???.

If you two were scum together, it'd make some sense, so you could see how bad she outed herself. But it's MORE likely you're just trying to evaluate my train of thought.

Pralaya · October 13, 2014

Eh?

"Mafia!Tom would know my alignment and know hers. You could ask me to elaborate with quotes and make a legitimate case off of it -something I clearly wouldn't be able to do with how the game has currently unfolded "

Which kind of implies that Tom would come after you as scum. That is what I read.

csarmi · October 13, 2014

Could you guys post in a readable way?

Tommyrod · October 13, 2014

Pral when did you become a big proponent of meta reads? I don't remember that.

On D1, always. Which explains why I post little on D1.

I'm still a little baffled that you come into the thread with like flipped reads from the consensus.

I will do things as a villager that I do as a wolf and vice versa. I will push for what I think is correct when I'm a villager and what I think is plausible as a wolf. So though you're right that I'll push people for being scummy when I'm a wolf, I'll also push them for one or two big things if I think it's slimy enough. But I'm not even doing that, I've been adjusting for new info on the fly e.g. my take on Wombat. But that exact behavior you're describing in me is what I think Clov is doing to Salami, so I don't know how you missed that if we are reading the same thread.

Verbal32 · October 13, 2014

Is there a portion of the game that will let me catch up best while obtaining current reads on people?
Few big things are the Leelou/Clov event you ignored at the time, the Salami meltdown and responses, Hallia being pressured, and the Great Siliami Wars last night. Dunno what pages.
Ooh, was that a snipe in there? I didn't ignore it - it was ongoing when I last posted.
You were posting before and after. I would expect you to have a comment on Leelou given how discussion was about her for 2-3 pages.
I remember commenting on Salami following Clov with an agreement when Clov never stated his "reason" until after.

Has Salami done something to correct this, or is this still the reason he's posting so much??

Oh there's been some new shinies. Just watch and learn sonny.

Learn how to post myself into oblivion?

No thanks.

Clovdyx · October 13, 2014

Eh?

"Mafia!Tom would know my alignment and know hers. You could ask me to elaborate with quotes and make a legitimate case off of it -something I clearly wouldn't be able to do with how the game has currently unfolded "

Which kind of implies that Tom would come after you as scum. That is what I read.

Don't stop reading there. Read the whole sentence, and think about it from Mafia!Tom's POV:

"Clov is lynching Leelou and isn't making any sense. How is she outed? Hmm....what do I do here.

A) Make him actually build a case here, which he can't do

B) Let him continue to make no sense"

I don't see how him interfering (A) helps the scum team out, unless she was a teammate. If she's not, he can sit back and let me mislynch her with a garbage case, which is probably only going to make me look worse.

Clovdyx · October 13, 2014

Also,

I'm like 88% sure salami is a villager

Nyn
AJ
Salami
Sili

Pretty confident

These posts were on page 49. Tom DID question Csarmi after Csarmi voted Leelou, but I don't see how you can find that scummy. Town should be questioning votes/pushes they don't understand. But from the rest of the day phase, it's evident Tom was NOT scumreading Csarmi and I find it bad you're insinuating he was.

Pralaya · October 13, 2014

Also,

I'm like 88% sure salami is a villager

Nyn

AJ

Salami

Sili

Pretty confident

These posts were on page 49. Tom DID question Csarmi after Csarmi voted Leelou, but I don't see how you can find that scummy. Town should be questioning votes/pushes they don't understand. But from the rest of the day phase, it's evident Tom was NOT scumreading Csarmi and I find it bad you're insinuating he was.

I don't think I said anywhere that Tom was scumreadin Csarmi, did I?

Anyway, time for me to sleep. Page 60 now. Should be fully caught up by tomorrow.

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

Here's my voting sequence in relation to what Pral quoted me saying (if anyone's interested).

to conclude...

Vote Salami

This was posted after the ISO I did on Salami.

Unvote

Vote Clov

I still want to see Salami coming back and explaining himself. You are not forgotten, Csarmi :P

I'm referring the whole part about him self voting and taking off. He had two votes on him and left. So I moved on to Clov because everything was pretty much at a standstill and I couldn't get over Clov looking bad.

Later on I say what Pral quoted when Salami gets too overbearing when he resurfaces. ie that I'm willing to re-vote Salami, or just drop it for now if the rest were feeling differently.

Unvote

Vote Hallia

Clov/Halli/AJ/Salami are my top four so far.

This was after I noticed that most people weren't really seeing eye to eye with me on Clov, which is legitimate. I put my thoughts out there and it is what it is. Halli was looking sketchy so I moved my vote to her. And as you clearly see, I'm still mentioning Salami in my scum leans at this point

Unvote

Vote Clov

dun dun dun!

This is after I've seen more of Clov and got more and more confident in my read of him. Halli hasn't really convinced me with the whole exchange with Des and Salami but I decided to go with my strongest scum lean, which is Clov.

Clovdyx · October 13, 2014

Also,

I'm like 88% sure salami is a villager

Nyn

AJ

Salami

Sili

Pretty confident

These posts were on page 49. Tom DID question Csarmi after Csarmi voted Leelou, but I don't see how you can find that scummy. Town should be questioning votes/pushes they don't understand. But from the rest of the day phase, it's evident Tom was NOT scumreading Csarmi and I find it bad you're insinuating he was.

I don't think I said anywhere that Tom was scumreadin Csarmi, did I?

Anyway, time for me to sleep. Page 60 now. Should be fully caught up by tomorrow.

You didn't say it. I inferred it from this.

Now the scums:

Hally: Lot more playful than I have seen. Something that she did as scum in the Spaceballs game too. Buddies Tom randomly here , votes AJ randomly etc. Her vote on Alanna was fair but follows it by quickly unvoting her and randomly votes Wombat. Something off here.

Leelou: A lot sparse than usual. I read the whole thing that she has been scum 6 straight games. A town Leelou would have questioned lurkers by now and not lurk herself :)

Nyn: Her play this game seems odd. On one hand, she is trying well to try and solve the game. But, I feel there are these slight nudges that makes me feel bad about her. Things like these. Subtle hints to vig someone.

Can someone please vig Clov tonight? mkaythanks.

Or, even when she has a scum read on Csarmi, trying to play really safe

Salami, spare me.

For the sake of my sanity, I'm gonna be putting Salami on mute for the rest of the game.

Still game on lynching him, but if everyone else isn't interested then I'll drop it for now.

It is a bit difficult to get a good read of Nynaeve and I try to see these subtle posts and that's what makes me feel she is scum.

She is also buddying with Tommy and leelou and both are my scum reads. All three went after Clov. She went after Csarmi along with Tommy. Don't think it is mindmeld !

Tommy: I always tinfoil on Tommy. One of the ways that I try to see is if he goes after opportunistic pushes. As town, he is usually shopping around to see how people react to pressure. As scum, he catches small errors by townies and that is exactly what I am seeing in this game. Whether going after Thane talking about his cockiness, or against Clov for his "gambit against Leelou" or against Wombat for his opening tone. Those are all easy pushes and that is what he has been pursuing. Really think he is scum this game.

Nyn very distinctly was reading Csarmi as scum and advocating for his lynch. Saying she did it along with Tommy suggests he also did.

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

Verbal, give me some leans.

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

Nyn, what is your take on the players now?

This is prolly where I'm at right now:

Town leans: Tommy, Leelou

Null to town: Sili, Thane, Des, Alanna, Wombat, Salami

Null: Sickpuppets, Verbal, AJ

Null to scum: Hallia, Pral

Scum: Clov

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

I could prolly move some things around a bit.... but I think that gives my general take.

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

Gotta go eat. I'll be back later.

Nynaeve · October 13, 2014

Nyn, what is your take on the players now?

This is prolly where I'm at right now:

Town leans: Tommy, Leelou

Null to town: Sili, Thane, Des, Alanna, Wombat, Salami

Null: Sickpuppets, Verbal, AJ

Null to scum: Hallia, Pral

Scum: Clov

p.s I forgot Yates. He goes in the null to town. Would like to see more but his posts seemed decent so far.

[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

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