[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Hallia]

But with a game so long, only basing reads off of that partial read is kinda worthless. So much changes

[Pralaya]

Inbefore Pral will avoid getting modkilled

 

I had to split what is usually a one post into 4 

[Thane Vakarian]

this game is hard to catch up with so many pages, i wonder when (or rather, IF) SP shows up and what he'll have to say

[Tommyrod]

Pral, it's insane to me that you can agree with me that

 

"Clov: His initial Leelou gambit was meh. "

 

And then call me scum for finding it scummy?

[Tommyrod]

But with a game so long, only basing reads off of that partial read is kinda worthless. So much changes

What are you commenting on?

[csarmi]

Cause they do feel genuine yet i don't get why you see the game that way. Could i really be this off? I doubt it.

 

Looking forward to your next 50 pages.

[csarmi]

But with a game so long, only basing reads off of that partial read is kinda worthless. So much changes

No it isn't. A lot can be deduced from the first x pages especially after a couple of flips.

[csarmi]

I think she says Pray's read list is not useful cause only page 1-50.

[Pralaya]

 

 

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

It is more opportunistic pushes than easy pushes. In all their case, you were mainly basing it on one point - in case of Clov, it was his response to Lellou gambit and in case of Wombat, it was his opening tone. I am not pointing out the type of player you are pushing but mainly the reasons why you are pushing them

But not only is that not what I've been doing, it's also not a useful tell. Maybe later in the game, but D1 there often can be one moment that is so bad it merits a scum claim. Clov's gambit backtrack qualifies, just like TG's posts to Vos were scum claims last game.

 

Still, if that's your criteria for scummy behavior, why is Clov not scum when his push on Salami is the most "singular" push reasoning in this thread?

 

 

If you read what I wrote in my post, it isn't a criteria in itself. Rather a meta read on you along with the criteria. 

 

Agreed that it is early to get a good read and 50 pages is too less to get a concrete one. But, that is where i am and this is what I am feeling.

[csarmi]

Hally the essential - the role pm people received tends to be a constant.

[Nynaeve]

=

Nyn: Her play this game seems odd. On one hand, she is trying well to try and solve the game. But, I feel there are these slight nudges that makes me feel bad about her. Things like these. Subtle hints to vig someone. 

Can someone please vig Clov tonight? mkaythanks.

 

Or, even when she has a scum read on Csarmi, trying to play really safe

 

Salami, spare me.

 

 

 

For the sake of my sanity, I'm gonna be putting Salami on mute for the rest of the game.

 

 

Still game on lynching him, but if everyone else isn't interested then I'll drop it for now.

 

It is a bit difficult to get a good read of Nynaeve and I try to see these subtle posts and that's what makes me feel she is scum. 

 

She is also buddying with Tommy and leelou and both are my scum reads. All three went after Clov. She went after Csarmi along with Tommy. Don't think it is mindmeld !

 

LOL  Wow. Really wow.

 

What's subtle about me telling someone to vig Clov? I have explained my read on him since the beginning. I have my vote on him. I feel pretty confident that he is going to flip scum and if by some happenstance he wiggles out of the lynch today, then I totally support the notion of him getting vigged, assuming there's a vig in the picture. There is no "nudging" abut it.

 

Also I don't see what's the problem with me openly saying who are my voting options today. I don't really understand how you're perceiving it as a nudge. I am saying it loudly and for the whole world to see.  I changed my stance on Salami later on but my point still remains. I have several scum leans. I've made them known. And I'm not gonna keep repeating myself if the rest disagree about one of them so I moved on to the next one. This is not a game of me lynching whoever I feel like... it's a game of presenting your thoughts and reaching a collective agreement. 

 

 

I am very much amused right now.

[Hallia]

@Tommy - yes, as Csarmi said I was referring to Pral

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

It is more opportunistic pushes than easy pushes. In all their case, you were mainly basing it on one point - in case of Clov, it was his response to Lellou gambit and in case of Wombat, it was his opening tone. I am not pointing out the type of player you are pushing but mainly the reasons why you are pushing them

But not only is that not what I've been doing, it's also not a useful tell. Maybe later in the game, but D1 there often can be one moment that is so bad it merits a scum claim. Clov's gambit backtrack qualifies, just like TG's posts to Vos were scum claims last game.

 

Still, if that's your criteria for scummy behavior, why is Clov not scum when his push on Salami is the most "singular" push reasoning in this thread?

If you read what I wrote in my post, it isn't a criteria in itself. Rather a meta read on you along with the criteria.

 

Agreed that it is early to get a good read and 50 pages is too less to get a concrete one. But, that is where i am and this is what I am feeling.

Okay... I can kinda buy that. At the least you're right that I do crucify townies for slips when I'm scum. When can we expect you to be caught up?

[Pralaya]

LOL  Wow. Really wow.

 

What's subtle about me telling someone to vig Clov? I have explained my read on him since the beginning. I have my vote on him. I feel pretty confident that he is going to flip scum and if by some happenstance he wiggles out of the lynch today, then I totally support the notion of him getting vigged, assuming there's a vig in the picture. There is no "nudging" abut it.

 

Also I don't see what's the problem with me openly saying who are my voting options today. I don't really understand how you're perceiving it as a nudge. I am saying it loudly and for the whole world to see.  I changed my stance on Salami later on but my point still remains. I have several scum leans. I've made them known. And I'm not gonna keep repeating myself if the rest disagree about one of them so I moved on to the next one. This is not a game of me lynching whoever I feel like... it's a game of presenting your thoughts and reaching a collective agreement. 

 

 

I am very much amused right now.

 

I am not talking about your voting options. yes, you have made it pretty clear but my point was that you were trying to play safe by saying "Oh, I find Csarmi scummy but I am not voting him unless others do". That argument is what I found subtle and scummy. 

 

Also, i have seen a lot of scum put in a vig request in the middle of a game. I think someone did that in the Spaceballs game too and I got a good read on him after that. It is like inception, lol

[csarmi]

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

It would be very hard for you to push me as scum and keep your credibility - since like page 15 or so. Dunno about Hally and Sili.

[Nynaeve]

 

LOL  Wow. Really wow.

 

What's subtle about me telling someone to vig Clov? I have explained my read on him since the beginning. I have my vote on him. I feel pretty confident that he is going to flip scum and if by some happenstance he wiggles out of the lynch today, then I totally support the notion of him getting vigged, assuming there's a vig in the picture. There is no "nudging" abut it.

 

Also I don't see what's the problem with me openly saying who are my voting options today. I don't really understand how you're perceiving it as a nudge. I am saying it loudly and for the whole world to see.  I changed my stance on Salami later on but my point still remains. I have several scum leans. I've made them known. And I'm not gonna keep repeating myself if the rest disagree about one of them so I moved on to the next one. This is not a game of me lynching whoever I feel like... it's a game of presenting your thoughts and reaching a collective agreement. 

 

 

I am very much amused right now.

 

I am not talking about your voting options. yes, you have made it pretty clear but my point was that you were trying to play safe by saying "Oh, I find Csarmi scummy but I am not voting him unless others do". That argument is what I found subtle and scummy. 

 

Also, i have seen a lot of scum put in a vig request in the middle of a game. I think someone did that in the Spaceballs game too and I got a good read on him after that. It is like inception, lol

 

 

 

LOL  Wow. Really wow.

 

What's subtle about me telling someone to vig Clov? I have explained my read on him since the beginning. I have my vote on him. I feel pretty confident that he is going to flip scum and if by some happenstance he wiggles out of the lynch today, then I totally support the notion of him getting vigged, assuming there's a vig in the picture. There is no "nudging" abut it.

 

Also I don't see what's the problem with me openly saying who are my voting options today. I don't really understand how you're perceiving it as a nudge. I am saying it loudly and for the whole world to see.  I changed my stance on Salami later on but my point still remains. I have several scum leans. I've made them known. And I'm not gonna keep repeating myself if the rest disagree about one of them so I moved on to the next one. This is not a game of me lynching whoever I feel like... it's a game of presenting your thoughts and reaching a collective agreement. 

 

 

I am very much amused right now.

 

I am not talking about your voting options. yes, you have made it pretty clear but my point was that you were trying to play safe by saying "Oh, I find Csarmi scummy but I am not voting him unless others do". That argument is what I found subtle and scummy. 

 

Also, i have seen a lot of scum put in a vig request in the middle of a game. I think someone did that in the Spaceballs game too and I got a good read on him after that. It is like inception, lol

 

 

My vote gravitated between Salami, Hallia and Clov throughout the entire day. 

 

 

Your lean list is so bad I'm like legit speechless.

[csarmi]

So i don't think he's right here but Pral is a GOAT when towning so I'm always open to consider his points. Gonna keep these in mind when reading through next and try to match to what i see.

[Clovdyx]

Now, the nulls and slight scums.

 

Sili: I don't know his meta and frankly his posts have not made a lot of sense to me. I see him make an effort to give reads on players and votes but Will need to see his voting patterns to get better reads.

 

Yates and SP: Null till what I have read. 

 

Verbal: Mainly a gut feel.He goes after an easy catch Thane and nudges csarmi here. Would need to see more from him before getting a good read on him.

 

Clov: His initial Leelou gambit was meh. He clears Tommy quite fast. Here he says that if Tommy is scum, he would come after him for voting Leelou and since he didn't come hard, he feels Tommy is town. But, Tommy did indeed come back later on Clov and it is worrying that he still feels he is town.

 

Now the scums:

 

Hally: Lot more playful than I have seen. Something that she did as scum in the Spaceballs game too. Buddies Tom randomly here , votes AJ randomly etc. Her vote on Alanna was fair but follows it by quickly unvoting her and randomly votes Wombat. Something off here. 

  

Leelou: A lot sparse than usual. I read the whole thing that she has been scum 6 straight games. A town Leelou would have questioned lurkers by now and not lurk herself :)

 

Nyn: Her play this game seems odd. On one hand, she is trying well to try and solve the game. But, I feel there are these slight nudges that makes me feel bad about her. Things like these. Subtle hints to vig someone. 

Can someone please vig Clov tonight? mkaythanks.

 

Or, even when she has a scum read on Csarmi, trying to play really safe

 

Salami, spare me.

 

 

 

For the sake of my sanity, I'm gonna be putting Salami on mute for the rest of the game.

 

 

Still game on lynching him, but if everyone else isn't interested then I'll drop it for now.

 

It is a bit difficult to get a good read of Nynaeve and I try to see these subtle posts and that's what makes me feel she is scum. 

 

She is also buddying with Tommy and leelou and both are my scum reads. All three went after Clov. She went after Csarmi along with Tommy. Don't think it is mindmeld !

 

Tommy: I always tinfoil on Tommy. One of the ways that I try to see is if he goes after opportunistic pushes. As town, he is usually shopping around to see how people react to pressure. As scum, he catches small errors by townies and that is exactly what I am seeing in this game. Whether going after Thane talking about his cockiness, or against Clov for his "gambit against Leelou" or against Wombat for his opening tone. Those are all easy pushes and that is what he has been pursuing. Really think he is scum this game.

 

I disagree with a lot of this stuff.

 

Me - I didn't say anything remotely close to what you're claiming I did.  You're saying I claimed "Tom would address this if he's scum"; I said "He wouldn't address this if he's scum". Him coming at me isn't scumtelling, it's towntelling; he (quite understandably) didn't follow why I was voting her so engaging me gives him an opportunity to evaluate my thought process.  Tom as mafia would know I'm town and doesn't NEED to evaluate my thought process.  The only plausible reason to get at me for it as scum is if he's teammates with Leelou.

 

Leelou - I really don't have any insight on whether or not she would question lurkers, but that seems like a pretty weak suspicion.  Do you associate her town game as really vocal or spammy?  Also, I see nowhere in the first fifty pages she went after me.  If you haven't read the most recent pages, I'm very interested to know where you got the impression she had.

 

Nyn - First, I think you're misrepping her suspicion as a subtle nudge.  Nyn has been the person who put forth the most effort into actually casing/explaining a lean on me IMO, and I'm pretty sure I'm her top scum suspect.  I don't appreciate the vig request, but at the same time, if she's really that convinced....why wouldn't she want me shot?

 

Second, what are you thinking she's buddying them with?  If you're talking about the similar reads, you should be more suspicious of Tom/Leelou.  Nyn was the first person to accuse me, and she went after Csarmi pretty quickly.  Leelou got her vote in first, but Nyn was only a few minutes behind despite doing an ISO on him.  It could have been coordinated, but she's certainly not portraying a sheeping of his read.

 

Tom - First, you said he went at Csarmi (in your Nyn section).  He questioned him once, but I'm pretty sure he was already hard defending Csarmi within the first fifty pages.  I'll go back and check to see, but that seems really inconsistent with how the thread went down.  Also don't like the implication that Wombat, Thane, and me are town Tom is nitpicking, when you only have slight town reads on them and a slight scum read on me.

[Tommyrod]

 

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

It would be very hard for you to push me as scum and keep your credibility - since like page 15 or so. Dunno about Hally and Sili.

Maybe to you. I don't think anyone else would care. Doesn't matter though.

[csarmi]

 

 

LOL Wow. Really wow.

 

What's subtle about me telling someone to vig Clov? I have explained my read on him since the beginning. I have my vote on him. I feel pretty confident that he is going to flip scum and if by some happenstance he wiggles out of the lynch today, then I totally support the notion of him getting vigged, assuming there's a vig in the picture. There is no "nudging" abut it.

 

Also I don't see what's the problem with me openly saying who are my voting options today. I don't really understand how you're perceiving it as a nudge. I am saying it loudly and for the whole world to see. I changed my stance on Salami later on but my point still remains. I have several scum leans. I've made them known. And I'm not gonna keep repeating myself if the rest disagree about one of them so I moved on to the next one. This is not a game of me lynching whoever I feel like... it's a game of presenting your thoughts and reaching a collective agreement.

 

 

I am very much amused right now.

I am not talking about your voting options. yes, you have made it pretty clear but my point was that you were trying to play safe by saying "Oh, I find Csarmi scummy but I am not voting him unless others do". That argument is what I found subtle and scummy.

 

Also, i have seen a lot of scum put in a vig request in the middle of a game. I think someone did that in the Spaceballs game too and I got a good read on him after that. It is like inception, lol

I didn't see it that way and it was me she was voting. It sounded to me that she was very adamant on lynching me... I'm not sure shw actually voted me there but there was no mistaking of what her intentions was in regards to my hide.

[csarmi]

 

 

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

It would be very hard for you to push me as scum and keep your credibility - since like page 15 or so. Dunno about Hally and Sili.

Maybe to you. I don't think anyone else would care. Doesn't matter though.

You do tend to get away with murder, true.

 

I really hope i'm not weong on you this time. My mattress would be very sad.

[Nynaeve]

Can't stop laughing. You scum here, Pral?

 

First of all, claiming I said: "Oh, I find Csarmi scummy but I am not voting him unless others do".... is just.... xD   I had my vote on Salami. No one was going there. Pretty sure I then moved my vote to Hallia but made it perfectly clear that I have no problem going back to Salami. And later on, if I remember right, I moved it on to Clov. 

 

Secondly, I respect the fact that you've seen scum suggest vigging people. I'm not ignorant to the fact that it can be used to misdirect a vig. but I'm sure town have given such suggestion in previous games as well. In fact I've seen townies both offer legit vig targets or joke around with vig suggestions and claims all the time. This doesn't change the fact that I've been screaming from the roof tops to lynch Clov and I don't see what's even remotely scummy about suggesting he be vigged if he doesn't get lynched. I'm not about to take scum out to tea and dumplings. Killing him seems like the thing to do.

 

I can't believe I'm hearing these words coming out of you, of all people.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

Pral, how can you tell me with a straight face that Wombat or Clov are easy pushes compared to Salami, Hallia or Sili?

It would be very hard for you to push me as scum and keep your credibility - since like page 15 or so. Dunno about Hally and Sili.

Maybe to you. I don't think anyone else would care. Doesn't matter though.

You do tend to get away with murder, true.

 

I really hope i'm not weong on you this time. My mattress would be very sad.

Me too.

 

Pral's opinions are so wacky and out of the consensus that I don't know if he could be this contrary as scum. Could he?

[Tommyrod]

Can't stop laughing. You scum here, Pral?

 

First of all, claiming I said: "Oh, I find Csarmi scummy but I am not voting him unless others do".... is just.... xD I had my vote on Salami. No one was going there. Pretty sure I then moved my vote to Hallia but made it perfectly clear that I have no problem going back to Salami. And later on, if I remember right, I moved it on to Clov.

 

Secondly, I respect the fact that you've seen scum suggest vigging people. I'm not ignorant to the fact that it can be used to misdirect a vig. but I'm sure town have given such suggestion in previous games as well. In fact I've seen townies both offer legit vig targets or joke around with vig suggestions and claims all the time. This doesn't change the fact that I've been screaming from the roof tops to lynch Clov and I don't see what's even remotely scummy about suggesting he be vigged if he doesn't get lynched. I'm not about to take scum out to tea and dumplings. Killing him seems like the thing to do.

 

I can't believe I'm hearing these words coming out of you, of all people.

It's like he took some drugs before he wrote that, right?

[csarmi]

Nyn, what is your take on the players now?