[BASIC] Discworld Mafia - MAFIA win

Barmacral · October 15, 2014

I need more time than D1 to read Leelou, but for the record I read Nyn slightly scummy.

Niniel · October 15, 2014

Thanks Barm. That was the post I was refering to.

I was pushing Verb about him saying that Leelou's answer wasn't satisfying because I feared it was something he would come back to later on. I wanted him to state if it was a scummy answer or not. Now he said that he didn't know and that he had to keep watching her. If they are mafia together this would be a good distancing post to go back to later if needed. By saying that her answer was wrong but not scummy he left it open so he could use this later on, if he needed to vote them. Why ask the question at all if the answer dosen' t lead anywhere? At the time I questioned Verbal I didn't know that Leelou/Nyn was mafia but it doesn' t matter if they were town or mafia. It was still a post that he could choose to use later on. Have I explained myself better this time?

I don' t like the "you can vote me later" posts. If you're town then you want to stay alive. I don' t think that we can learn as much as usual during the days since we have only one mafia left. We can' t watch his/ her interactions with other mafia since there are no left. IF we want to look at mafia - mafia interaction we need to stick to day 1. I'm not saying that we can't learn anything after day 1 but not as much as when we have more mafia or kill mafia later in the game. Offering you later on means nothing good for town. People will chenge their minds during the game and good players can get out of it once there is their time to be lynched.

I still haven't gotten the time to re-read the game but I still think that a mafia team with only two players would't bus on d1. That means that I won' t vote Barm or Krak. I need to check back and see why Mish/Kronos and Dice seemed clear. I don' t remember right now but I know I considered them clear before.

I'm going to get ready for the interview now. Btw - does anyone know how to change the spell checker language on an I- Pad?

Yates · October 15, 2014

I need to check back and see why Mish/Kronos and Dice seemed clear. I don' t remember right now but I know I considered them clear before.

Dice has a crap ton of obv Town posts with obv Town motivation. The most recent provable post would be when he prevented a CFD towards the end of D1 and ensured the LouNy lynch. Scum would have been more than happy to sit idly by and watch as many wagons form as possible. I refuse to believe that was anything but Town.

I'd still really like your thoughts on my posts from earlier. If I follow through on your suggestion and look only at player/scum interaction from Day 1, you look the worst.

Verbal32 · October 15, 2014

Because I didn't get the feel that they were trying to solve things. Othets made good posts about them (one of them was Barm I think).

Yes, I questioned Verbal about it sinve he didn't seemed to think bad answer = scummy answer. why then ask the question at all? seemed like a "fake" question to me. He never voted them because of Leelou either.

Really? What makes you say that?

Actually you said it straight up, you couldn't read Leelou yet but you thought Nyn was scummy, which is why you voted for them. I could go back and find the post for you if you want.

I really wish you had let Tina answer the question. I know exactly which post she was referring to, but I wanted to make sure she's doing her normal townTina due diligence first. Now that is null because of Barm the Peanut Gallery.

Verbal32 · October 15, 2014

Thanks Barm. That was the post I was refering to.

I was pushing Verb about him saying that Leelou's answer wasn't satisfying because I feared it was something he would come back to later on. I wanted him to state if it was a scummy answer or not. Now he said that he didn't know and that he had to keep watching her. If they are mafia together this would be a good distancing post to go back to later if needed. By saying that her answer was wrong but not scummy he left it open so he could use this later on, if he needed to vote them. Why ask the question at all if the answer dosen' t lead anywhere? At the time I questioned Verbal I didn't know that Leelou/Nyn was mafia but it doesn' t matter if they were town or mafia. It was still a post that he could choose to use later on. Have I explained myself better this time?

I don' t like the "you can vote me later" posts. If you're town then you want to stay alive. I don' t think that we can learn as much as usual during the days since we have only one mafia left. We can' t watch his/ her interactions with other mafia since there are no left. IF we want to look at mafia - mafia interaction we need to stick to day 1. I'm not saying that we can't learn anything after day 1 but not as much as when we have more mafia or kill mafia later in the game. Offering you later on means nothing good for town. People will chenge their minds during the game and good players can get out of it once there is their time to be lynched.

I still haven't gotten the time to re-read the game but I still think that a mafia team with only two players would't bus on d1. That means that I won' t vote Barm or Krak. I need to check back and see why Mish/Kronos and Dice seemed clear. I don' t remember right now but I know I considered them clear before.

I'm going to get ready for the interview now. Btw - does anyone know how to change the spell checker language on an I- Pad?

Ugh. Open up your thought process a little wider. 2 man scum team won't bus.....so don't you think a smart team might do exactly that on D1?

Also, you aren't being totally accurate with your portrayal of my suspicion on Leelou - lemme dig up the posts preceeding the one Barm grabbed....

Verbal32 · October 15, 2014

Why do I think you're scum? Why?

This bothers me.

I'm bothered.

Like whoa.

Why do I think you're scum? Why?

Me? Dunno. Why do you? Lets talk this out. We have 18 mins.

You aren't on the offensive - you're entire D1 has been largely defensive. I know you need to defend from multiple players, but any counterattack has been nonexistent.

You aren't on the offensive - you're entire D1 has been largely defensive. I know you need to defend from multiple players, but any counterattack has been nonexistent.

I know you hate this, but I haven't had the time to get into this game. I've tried whenever I had 5 mins and I had people to defend against and by today, meh.

[v]Leelou/Nyn[/v]

:-(

That is the sequence that lead to my vote. My next post was the one Barm quoted. As you can see, I did vote Leelou for thinking she might be scum, even though I don't normally go for her D1. The thing that put me over the edge to vote was my read on Nyn as well.

Verbal32 · October 15, 2014

Because I didn't get the feel that they were trying to solve things. Othets made good posts about them (one of them was Barm I think).

Yes, I questioned Verbal about it sinve he didn't seemed to think bad answer = scummy answer. why then ask the question at all? seemed like a "fake" question to me. He never voted them because of Leelou either.

Conclusion: the bolded is not true.

Verbal32 · October 15, 2014

Would still prefer to lynch Krak, but now I'm shaky on Tina. I'm basically good on everybody else, though....so I still like our chances.

Yates · October 15, 2014

@Dice - see what Yates is doing here? He's going down the normal path for town to take.....but I think it is the wrong path, because I think scum are switching it up.

I think I missed something. Can you tell me what I'm missing?

Yates · October 15, 2014

Would still prefer to lynch Krak, but now I'm shaky on Tina. I'm basically good on everybody else, though....so I still like our chances.

Between Krak and Tina? The choice is easy for me.

michellem · October 15, 2014

Pardons for my abscense; I got the phone call today about my work practise so I've been out of sorts... Honestly I don't have the time or energy for a reread and I won't until late friday night, when I think our deadline is? I'll try to get in a few pages here and there when I can, but no promises. I'm sorry.

michellem · October 15, 2014

But my gut feel is Krak today, and Verb is starting to sway me on Tina.

Krakalakachkn · October 15, 2014

Your gut is me but Verb is swaying you on Tina? How does that work?

Krakalakachkn · October 15, 2014

Not even going to bother looking at Tina?

How many players are you going to suggest going after? You have had Nolder, Hallia, and myself....now Tina. See the pattern? You're willing to have ANYBODY be the next lynch, as long as it isn't you. THAT is the major difference between you, Hallia, Nolder, and currently Yates. They all were or are willing to be the lynch to solve the game. You.....are not.

Actually, I take that back. If I'm right and Krak is scum, killing Nolder is PERFECT to provide cover for why it wouldn't be him.

His easy defense is that he'd kill a blue....so going for some reverse psychology here. Won't work.

[v]Krak[/v]

Lol no

I could have gone for anyone else. Killing Dice, for example, would be a way better play for scum!Krak.

If you're scum then this would be the perfect gambit to pull and then pull this wifom on me .

I like how you ask the question and then answer it.

See how this works?

Yes, which is why I said it was reverse psychology to kill Nolder....the next guy on your list to lynch. It makes you look better.

ScumKrak's best kill thinking only logic and no evolving strategy: Dice

ScumKrak's best kill including the evolving strategy of Verbal going hard at him and Yates defending him: Nolder

^ the best move for you was to kill Nolder. I would have relaxed on you if it was Dice, actually.

I only mentioned Tina due to your earlier musings, because she fit your qualifications or whatever.

I would have killed either Mish or Yates or Dice, I would not have killed Nolder as scum. Nolder doesn't even make sense to me. Can you explain this any more because I obviously cannot make an argument against your points here…which I think you're very well aware of.

Krakalakachkn · October 15, 2014

Somebody talk to me

Verbal32 · October 15, 2014

@Dice - see what Yates is doing here? He's going down the normal path for town to take.....but I think it is the wrong path, because I think scum are switching it up.
I think I missed something. Can you tell me what I'm missing?

You aren't following me on Krak - you think he's town. I think you are wrong.

Not even going to bother looking at Tina?

How many players are you going to suggest going after? You have had Nolder, Hallia, and myself....now Tina. See the pattern? You're willing to have ANYBODY be the next lynch, as long as it isn't you. THAT is the major difference between you, Hallia, Nolder, and currently Yates. They all were or are willing to be the lynch to solve the game. You.....are not.

Actually, I take that back. If I'm right and Krak is scum, killing Nolder is PERFECT to provide cover for why it wouldn't be him.

His easy defense is that he'd kill a blue....so going for some reverse psychology here. Won't work.

[v]Krak[/v]

Lol no

I could have gone for anyone else. Killing Dice, for example, would be a way better play for scum!Krak.

If you're scum then this would be the perfect gambit to pull and then pull this wifom on me .

I like how you ask the question and then answer it.

See how this works?

Yes, which is why I said it was reverse psychology to kill Nolder....the next guy on your list to lynch. It makes you look better.

ScumKrak's best kill thinking only logic and no evolving strategy: Dice

ScumKrak's best kill including the evolving strategy of Verbal going hard at him and Yates defending him: Nolder

^ the best move for you was to kill Nolder. I would have relaxed on you if it was Dice, actually.

I only mentioned Tina due to your earlier musings, because she fit your qualifications or whatever.

I would have killed either Mish or Yates or Dice, I would not have killed Nolder as scum. Nolder doesn't even make sense to me. Can you explain this any more because I obviously cannot make an argument against your points here…which I think you're very well aware of.

Exactly why I think it was you - Nolder was the PERFECT kill to help you say exactly this.

Verbal32 · October 15, 2014

Somebody talk to me

No, just die.

Krakalakachkn · October 15, 2014

I would have killed either Mish or Yates or Dice, I would not have killed Nolder as scum. Nolder doesn't even make sense to me. Can you explain this any more because I obviously cannot make an argument against your points here…which I think you're very well aware of.

Exactly why I think it was you - Nolder was the PERFECT kill to help you say exactly this.

BUT I DIDN'T NEED TO SAY THIS!!! I COULD HAVE JUST KILLED SOMEONE ELSE!

Krakalakachkn · October 15, 2014

This isn't fun.

At least LouNy attacked my play and made a narrative out of it that I could pick apart and prove false. All you're doing is conjecturing. How the hell am I supposed to argue against that? The best I can do is say "you're wrong."

Yates · October 15, 2014

You aren't following me on Krak - you think he's town. I think you are wrong.

I mean, we have different perspectives on the game. I've been in - I don't know - maybe a dozen games with Krak? I know we've played a lot together recently. Sure, I could be wrong, but I'm really convinced this is Town Krak. If he's fooling me? Bravo. I just don't think he changes his entire game with the singular purpose of tricking me.

Exactly why I think it was you - Nolder was the PERFECT kill to help you say exactly this.

So stuff like this comes across as tinfoily to me. Are there any posts you think make him look scummy outside of your theory? I don't like to play the NK spec game [aforementioned posts aside] too much because they are typically WIFOM bombs. Maybe Nolder was killed just to create this type of a chaotic environment? The only thing I *DO* think is that the kill was made by someone who wasn't worried about being lynched today. Krak fills that criteria, sure, but so does Tina. And Tina has in game stuff that has me concerned.

Yates · October 15, 2014

Screw it.

[v]Tina[/v]

Final answer.

Krakalakachkn · October 15, 2014

Not even going to bother looking at Tina?

How many players are you going to suggest going after? You have had Nolder, Hallia, and myself....now Tina. See the pattern? You're willing to have ANYBODY be the next lynch, as long as it isn't you. THAT is the major difference between you, Hallia, Nolder, and currently Yates. They all were or are willing to be the lynch to solve the game. You.....are not.

So let me break this down for you/everyone. You're saying that I'm scum because I had Nolder and Hallia in my "should lynch first" category? I had Tina in my "should lynch next" category. How are you calling me scum for that AND for not wanting to be lynched? What you didn't say was that I haven't been the one the majority wants to lynch so far, the only ones who have wanted to lynch me this entire game are you, Mish, and LouNy. One is dead, you're still trying to lynch me, and Mish stated I was spewed town (although now she's changed her mind apparently. You're acting like I would simply offer myself up to be a lynch of my own accord with no pressure from the majority. And you're saying that's scummy. You're crazy man.

Krakalakachkn · October 15, 2014

Am I going crazy?

Yates · October 15, 2014

You're acting like I would simply offer myself up to be a lynch of my own accord with no pressure from the majority. And you're saying that's scummy. You're crazy man.

I agree with this, fwiw. Plus I don't think survivalism is alignment indicative, anyway, even if Krak was the prime lynch candidate.

Niniel · October 15, 2014

I went back to see why I thought Mish/Kronos and Dice was town. One of the reasons was, as Cory pointed out, that they was against the quick train on Yates. Scum would not try to stop a competing train.

Which leads me to Verbal and Yates. It's unusual that Verb votes Leelou d1. That is true. I still have my doubts but I will go for the easiest solution and that leaves Yates.

I'm not sure what you want me to answer/comment on, Yates. If you wonder about my vote on Nyn/Leelou then I voted them because I didn't felt like they were trying to solve things. Barm had a good reason for his vote and Mish pointed out that they had a lot of posts that had very littel game content.

I want all of you to look at Cory's posts # 757, 768, 775 and 776. He makes a lot of sense and he is generally a great d1 player (he often dies d1). Take a look at his reason for eliminating everyone except Verb, Nol, Krak and Yates.

Also take a look at Barm's post #793 which is very good.

I have to sleep soon but will be up a few minutes.

[BASIC] Discworld Mafia - MAFIA win

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