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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Marriage Knife Sheath Color/Husband Still Alive?


Phaldun

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Before anyone answers this, please keep in mind that I have read every book except the last one. So please don't spill the beans on any details from AMOL.

 

I am very currious about this question because I have searched the web for a long time this morning and I cannot find the answer. Does anyone know what color an Altaran Marriage Knife Sheath is when the Husband is still alive and they are happily married?

 

Mahalo for your time,

 

Ian

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Not positive if this helps however here is what I did find...

 

It is customary in Altara for married women to wear a marriage knife, given a knife by her husband when they marry with the request that she use it to kill him should he displease her.

- Upon becoming engaged a woman will wear the choker around her neck.

- After the marriage ceremony the knife is added to the choker, the hilt hangs downward.

--- If the woman is a widow and has no intent to marry again a WHITE sheath is worn over the knife.

--- If the woman is a widow but will consider another marraige in the future a BLUE sheath is worn over the knife.

 

This makes me believe that the knife worn during the marraige has no sheath or a sheath which is a color other than blue or black.

 

- Jewels or glass set into the knife represent children, white for sons and red for daughters.

--- If the children have died of other causes the jewels are enamelled in black.

--- If a male child dies in a dual his stone is enamelled in red.

--- If a female child dies in a dual her stone is enamelled in white.

--- If a child is over the age of sixteen and refuses a duel their mother may remove their stone as a sign the child has been disowned.

 

Notice I underlined the word KNIFE. I think this is significant since, if the knife is sheathed, how would one see the jewels... Another thing which makes me believe that the knife is unsheathed while married.

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I believe the jewels are displayed in the hilt of the Marriage knife. This way they are visible even when sheathed.

 

"A collar of woven gold ... supported a white-sheathed marriage knife hanging hilt-down ... The white sheath meant the Queen was widowed and did not intend to remarry. The four pearls and one firedrop set in the gold-wrapped hilt said she had borne four sons and one daughter; the white-enameled setting of the firedrop and the red-enameled of three of the pearls said only one son survived. All had been at least sixteen when they died, and died in duels, or the settings would have been black." <LoC: 49, 601-3, Leaning on the Knife>

 

I also asked this question in the General Forum. The answer I got there was one that is similar to a wedding band that we use. The couple probably uses gold, silver, bronze, or maybe even leather sheathes, depending on what they can afford. This makes more sense to me. As far as having the knife Un-Sheathed, with the hilt down............

 

Think about it like this, and I may be wrong, but I think there is a very very good chance she gets an accidental slice or stab in the neck if she is wearing a Marriage Knife Un-Sheathed and hilt down, tight on a choker around her neck. Imagine how accidental deaths could happen when she is walking around doing chores and such. Furthermore, often Altaran noble females wear high necked form fitting dresses with an oval cut out in the middle to display a little wonderful bosom, but also the hilt, and whatever pearls or firedrops she has set. What do you think?

 

Regardless if I am correct or you are, I really appreciate your time and thoughts about this subject.

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The symbology of a bare blade when you have a husband makes sense. You are ready to kill him if needed. The hilt hangs downwards, so the pointy end is connected to the choker. So there's no loose blade really hanging about.

 

When you are a widow, the knife is sheathed as it's no longer required. The knife in effect gets retired

 

So choker = engaged

Knife = married

Sheathed = widowed

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We really need to ask Harriet about this one. It just does not make sense to me for a female to have a very sharp un-sheathed knife, tight on a choker around her neck. First of all, she would no doubt cut or slice herself several times just by turning her neck, or looking down quickly, or any other sort of sudden movement of the head, shoulders, or raising of the arms. I would also like to debate on what the choker is tied to if the knife is un-sheathed. Certainly not the blade, as it would get cut or scratched easily, especially if it is a softer metal like woven gold. Not the Hilt either, because it would cause the married knife to easily be flipped hilt side up, or the blade, at times, would be protruding outward due to the pressure being mostly on the hilt.

 

It would make more logical sense if the Sheath had loop holes in it so the choker can weave through and stay tight fitting around the neck. Commoners would use a brass Sheath and hilt, the poor might use leather. The wealthier would use gold and silver. Perhaps a bronze sheath could be used as well. A noble class married wife could indeed wear a marriage knife that is Sheathed in Silver, with a Silver Hilt displaying two fire drops and one pearl. One of the fire drops has a setting in black........so on. If it is sheathed, and the wife gets really pissed off at the husband for cheating on her, she can easily un-sheath the knife for quick use, because that is what a sheath is for. If it is tied directly to the knife somehow, well they would need to break the choker and basically rip it off of their neck. In the case of woven metal around the neck, this would not be easily done by most females.

 

The Ebou Dari marriage knife is also readily used by the women that carry them. This means they would use it to defend themselves in a duel if challenged. Imagine if a female has the choker tied around the actual knife gets challenged......

 

"  Now you wait just a minute you bitch!  Excuse me while I work my fingers and attempt to untie my marriage knife from this pretty expensive choker!"

 

Or if they used a dagger or short sword sheathed around their belt instead, well, still a quick thump from her enemy under and against the hilt of the un-sheathed marriage knife around her neck would end the duel very quickly.

 

Or with a flick of a thin strap, the knife could be out and ready quickly before the challenger plunges her knife in the ribs.

 

Does anyone else get the pure common sense I am speaking here?

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I get what you are trying to say but there is little information out there on this and, to try and quote Harriet, "It's fantasy... you can have purple polkadoted cats if you want."

So basically saying what makes little sense when looked at using this world's logic might be completely possible in Randland.

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So you guys are saying that within the greatest fiction novel saga that humanity has ever witnessed.................I cannot have any realism? Really? You are totally forgetting why we love Robert Jordan so much. He made us feel the events and every step upon paved stone. He made us forget, at times, that we were even reading. For any of you to say that I cannot have any realism within Robert Jordan's world is TOTAL BLASPHEMY!      Do you not understand why? He is the King of realism, he is the King of Detail!. The King of Wit and Improve! You can never tell me that I do not deserve total details on the Marriage Knife in the Altaran Culture you fools! Did you people forget how it felt when you first read each novel? How your mind tricked yourself into actually being there? Am I the only one that truly understands this?

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Did you just call us fools?

 

:unsure:

 

Well that's not very nice.

 

This isn't a defined discussion board btw - it's a Social Community board. In the BT Social group.

 

We generally try and play nice.

 

If you thiink there's a sheath even when married then cool beans. You asked us what we though. Nikon found some pretty detailed info and shared it.

 

We can't tell you what you should do - we don't want to. We're far too lazy for all that shenanigans, but if you ask us what we think we'll tell.

 

Savvy?

 

:smile:

 

Ps. Is there really no happily married non widowed woman in the whole of the books wearing a knife that has a description.

 

It just seems odd that the only times sheathes are mentioned are when we see widowed women.

 

And if you're asking because you're planning some grand romantic gesture :wink: and really don't want the recipient to get damaged by said gesture then I totally agree that a sheathe would be a good idea.

 

For example - the AS great serpent rings are made of gold. The gold rings you can buy are very expensive. People buy the silver ones because it's what's in your heart that counts. It's a symbol.

 

 

 

:happy:

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So you guys are saying that within the greatest fiction novel saga that humanity has ever witnessed.................I cannot have any realism? Really? You are totally forgetting why we love Robert Jordan so much. He made us feel the events and every step upon paved stone. He made us forget, at times, that we were even reading. For any of you to say that I cannot have any realism within Robert Jordan's world is TOTAL BLASPHEMY!      Do you not understand why? He is the King of realism, he is the King of Detail!. The King of Wit and Improve! You can never tell me that I do not deserve total details on the Marriage Knife in the Altaran Culture you fools! Did you people forget how it felt when you first read each novel? How your mind tricked yourself into actually being there? Am I the only one that truly understands this?

First I don't know what percentage of people on this site really think that this is the "greatest fiction novel/saga that humanity has ever witnessed". It started with the potential to be one of the greatest ever but sadly fell short (imploded might be more accurate).

 

Second this is one minor point in myriad thousands of extra gleanings spanning the 14 ish novels. Can the guy not just have one " oh yeah I know that doesn't quite work but it sounds cool" moment? My take on it was always that the knife hung in an open scabbard design to keep the wearer safe while showing her status as a married woman. The widow sheath being a add on or insert if you will to cover the knife and display her status at that point. 

 

Third, if you are looking for everything to be explained/spoon fed to you then you have been reading the wrong series. There are oodles of little (and big) tidbits that will NEVER be completely explained. My recommendation is to just use the description you mind gives you and stop looking for the "right" answer. Because who cares really?

 

Finally, It is very rude to walk into someone's house and insult them. Therefore, you don't deserve total details on the importance of the Marriage knife in Altaran culture. But feel free to have some brownies. They are baked fresh daily.

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Do you think all the knives are the same length? If they are do you think that some law was written at some point to enforce that, because the knives were getting longer and longer.

 

And the wives had been going oMG look at the size of her knife!

 

Yes arguments with regards to the trade descriptions act ensued and a shortage of steel, and public decency due to increased size of ovals, meant that a law was introduced that restricted marriage knives to not be more than 125 pixels wide and 500 pixels long.

 

Or something like that.

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I guess it would depend if they were measured in male or female inches :wink:

 

But it's all very regulated now. Ever since that woman from The Dancing Goat had to divorce that guy because he'd overstated the size of his ... Income.

She'd got this massive knive. I mean she had to wear a steel boned corset all the way up her kneck just to stop it from causing a strain, and then after the wedding she found out that all he had was half a cottage and a pig.

 

It was a total scandal.

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I really enjoyed those replies. As far as me calling you guys fools, I think it was taken a massive level more negative than I intended. It was more of the sarcastic and playful "calling you fools" Seriously. Apologies for anyone who was offended. I still think The Wheel of Time is the greatest fictional saga that humanity has ever created though;) And as far as it imploding...........I have not read AMOL yet. So who knows, maybe after I finally read it I might agree.

 

I do appreciate all of the inputs here, because I am creating a character who's story begins when the Seanchan attack and take over Ebou Dar. So I was trying to get the precise details correctly before I start. I guess I don't need all the exact details knowingly correct for it to work. This is the reason why I started this thread.

 

I also believe that when one starts a thread, that thread is indeed their house.............Sos in fact I was calling my friends fools in my own house;)

 

P.S. By the way, I was drunk when I wrote the last input on my thread.

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I really enjoyed those replies. As far as me calling you guys fools, I think it was taken a massive level more negative than I intended. It was more of the sarcastic and playful "calling you fools" Seriously. Apologies for anyone who was offended. I still think The Wheel of Time is the greatest fictional saga that humanity has ever created though;) And as far as it imploding...........I have not read AMOL yet. So who knows, maybe after I finally read it I might agree.

 

I do appreciate all of the inputs here, because I am creating a character who's story begins when the Seanchan attack and take over Ebou Dar. So I was trying to get the precise details correctly before I start. I guess I don't need all the exact details knowingly correct for it to work. This is the reason why I started this thread.

 

I also believe that when one starts a thread, that thread is indeed their house.............Sos in fact I was calling my friends fools in my own house;)

 

P.S. By the way, I was drunk when I wrote the last input on my thread.

 

I think it's fair to say that, that deserve's to be no. 1 on Jak's International, Multigenderal, Omni-Racial Rules For Posting On Forums. (JIMORRFPOF) 

 

No. 1 : Never post while drunk......

 

 

 

' I still think The Wheel of Time is the greatest fictional saga that humanity has ever created though; '

 

 

 

You've obviously never read Tolkien....  :tongue:

 

'I also believe that when one starts a thread, that thread is indeed their house.............Sos in fact I was calling my friends fools in my own house '

 

 

 

 

 

I am being totally serious when I say that, that is completely bogus. I've been a part of this forum for about 3-quarters of a year and I will still don't see it as 'my house'. It is the house of the people who have been here the longest. And for someone who has been here for how long? A month? To call anything here 'my house'. Nope. Sorry. I, for my part, will always defer to the people who have been here for the longest. It is only respectful. If you want fools, become a politician, but don't bring them here. *nods*

 

On the topic of implosion: I think that a couple of the middle books could have been melded together, but other than that I think WoT is pretty sound. AMOL is great, nothing bad to say about that. 

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