Freemasons vs. Illuminati - LOOKING FOR ONE MORE PLAYER, QUICK GAME

[Clovdyx]

Still need more TG votes.

 

Yates is probably scum too, though.

 

Key, I think your going in circles comment summarizes his level of rhetoric as scum.

 

He'll exhaust you.

 

What does that suggest to you?

[Andrej]

1) I'm actually with Key IRT Lenlo showing "backbone" as scum.  He's been fairly passive in most of the games I've played with him as town, so I actually get a little weary if he shows a high level of effort and aggression.  I made a note to keep an eye on him since a couple of his posts here reminded me of his early play in Buffy Mafia (scum, as a mason with Key, IIRC), in that it's a start contrast to his natural "jokey"/"fluff" persona that I associate with him.

 

2) I actually think a TG scumflip might implicate Arsis rather than clear him.  AJ, you're lockclear for the rest of the game if TG flips scum, and Lenlo would be right behind you, but I think you missed the mark hard on Arsis.  I'll man up and say I'm not being perfectly objective since Arsis is still one of my top scum candidates, but if you're right about TG, I would have to wonder if his vote was a bus.  Arsis was gaining traction as a lynch at that point so TG would stand to benefit from the distancing, and as already said...the post TG made didn't give him a reason to vote Arsis - it gave him a reason NOT to, and he did anyways.

 

1) Idk, I just don't see it here. I could be completely wrong but for now I trust my view of the game. I've had times where I've read Lenlo really well but I'd like to see more from him because this game is going to take a lot of effort to win - but nothing about his play has stood out glaringly to me and I think I have backed my thought process with him pretty well. Doesn't make me right, of course, but that's where I'm at.

 

2) I sort of considered this as well since TG seems so non committal with the vote. Him swapping back to Lenlo when the opportunity came up would support your theory, but it could also just be him playing to the mood of the thread. TG showed he is willing to bus as scum in his most recent game, so again, it's something to consider but if he does get lynched and flip scum I don't think I would turn to Arsis immediately.

[Andrej]

 

Still need more TG votes.

 

Yates is probably scum too, though.

 

Key, I think your going in circles comment summarizes his level of rhetoric as scum.

 

He'll exhaust you.

 

What does that suggest to you?

 

I can only lynch one scum at a time

 

I'm not sold on Yates as mafia. I'm leaning in that direction, and I would probably support a Yates wagon but I would much-much rather see TG swing.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Still need more TG votes.

 

Yates is probably scum too, though.

 

Key, I think your going in circles comment summarizes his level of rhetoric as scum.

 

He'll exhaust you.

 

What does that suggest to you?

 

I can only lynch one scum at a time

 

I'm not sold on Yates as mafia. I'm leaning in that direction, and I would probably support a Yates wagon but I would much-much rather see TG swing.

 

 

I'm sure you would.  I would not :P

 

Beyond me thinking that TG's arguing gives him a very high rate to be town, I think that wagon is dirty as hell.  You are one of my top town reads, but I don't trust Arsis at all, and I'm leaning scum on Yates.  Yates COULD  be a bus vote if TG if scum - it's no secret that teammates will go at each other early during RVS so they have an alibi later, but they usually find an excuse to jump off or deflect pressure another way.  The odds of him staying the course on a teammate D1 after you took TG head on are far too low to reasonably consider at this stage.

 

It's possible my reads are way off, but the logic suggests avoiding a TG lynch.  

[Andrej]

Yates technically shouldn't be on that wagon, he tried to unvote but either Darthe missed that or he left the vote there since he didn't vote someone new.

 

I actually think Yates unvoting TG, when he had joke voted him in the beginning, after catching some real heat from ~me is a bad look.

[Andrej]

@Clov

 

 

 

I'd like to see what he has to say about the more recent voting.  I don't think his initial vote on Lenlo was opportunistic, and considering he was the one that started pressuring you, I don't see anything wrong with that.  Latter votes do look more sketchy.  Still, I'm not sure his early actions make sense from a scum perspective, and he seems to actually believe what he's saying.

I can follow this logic. Mostly agree. I don't typically unvote until I have a new target but meh. TG is <Rand to be scum.

[unvote]

[Andrej]

I follow your thoughts on Arsis/TG bussing, but I wouldn't be at all shocked if Arsis is town this game.

 

His logic is sort of simple at times (his Clov/AJ are teammates because you attacked him while I was 'under pressure') but it's similar to another game where said almost exactly the same thing. He makes premature associative reads all the time.

 

imo, I think it's less likely they're bussing/distancing than it is that TG was just looking for somewhere to throw his vote. Arsis voting TG now, which potentially gives it more momentum heading towards DL when previously I was the only one, is also a good look imo.

[Andrej]

DESPOT I NEED YOU ITT

 

I LIKED ~MOST OF YOUR WOT AND I WANT TO THINK YOU ARE TOWN SO GET IN HERE AND VILLAGE WITH ME

[Clovdyx]

 

Yates technically shouldn't be on that wagon, he tried to unvote but either Darthe missed that or he left the vote there since he didn't vote someone new.

 

I actually think Yates unvoting TG, when he had joke voted him in the beginning, after catching some real heat from ~me is a bad look.

 

 

 

@Clov

 

 

 

I'd like to see what he has to say about the more recent voting.  I don't think his initial vote on Lenlo was opportunistic, and considering he was the one that started pressuring you, I don't see anything wrong with that.  Latter votes do look more sketchy.  Still, I'm not sure his early actions make sense from a scum perspective, and he seems to actually believe what he's saying.

I can follow this logic. Mostly agree. I don't typically unvote until I have a new target but meh. TG is <Rand to be scum.

[unvote]

 

 

Thanks.  I'll go back and re-read for context, but I'm going to prematurely disagree with you IRT Yates unvoting looks bad.  Without further examination, I'd say it's more likely null.  Like you said - it was a joke vote (or opening, or random...whatever distinction people want to give it).  

 

I follow your thoughts on Arsis/TG bussing, but I wouldn't be at all shocked if Arsis is town this game.

 

His logic is sort of simple at times (his Clov/AJ are teammates because you attacked him while I was 'under pressure') but it's similar to another game where said almost exactly the same thing. He makes premature associative reads all the time.

 

imo, I think it's less likely they're bussing/distancing than it is that TG was just looking for somewhere to throw his vote. Arsis voting TG now, which potentially gives it more momentum heading towards DL when previously I was the only one, is also a good look imo.

 

I wouldn't be shocked either.  Just disappointed.

[Andrej]

Well, read through and do what you gotta do.

 

I'll be here to chit-chat.

 

Right now I'm looking at:

 

Probably townies - Clov, Key, Dice, Despot, Len, Arsis

 

Probably scum - TG, Yates

 

Null - BFG, GF, Hallia

[Clovdyx]

 

Thanks.  I'll go back and re-read for context, but I'm going to prematurely disagree with you IRT Yates unvoting looks bad.  Without further examination, I'd say it's more likely null.  Like you said - it was a joke vote (or opening, or random...whatever distinction people want to give it).  

 

All right, here's what we got.

 

 

Did you seriously start the game in the SIGNUP thread?? Who DOES that??

 

*le sigh*

 

Reading.

 

Opening post, suggests posting before reading.

 

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

goes to check rules

Votes - THEN checks rules.

Obv Scum play, bro.

 

[v]TG[/v]

 

 

Five minutes later, makes the kickstarter vote.  The game was only about a page at the time, so that seems like a reasonable catch up.  His vote for TGlems came immediately after TG was pushing Andre, but NOT before AJ claims TG is looking shaky with the beginning of the back-and-forth regarding Lenlo's opener.

 

 

Congrats Dice

 

Will read this more thoroughly later. Think you guys are wrong on TG

 

I'm not digging how he is throwing his vote around atm. Seems whomever is getting the most pressure/attention at the time gains his vote.

 

See opportunism.

 

This came a little bit after TG took off yesterday, following a period where he jumped on the Arsis wagon before moving back onto Lenlo.  It doesn't look like AJ had any other posts in between TG bolting and this post, so it reads like a natural response and not a comeback.  

 

 

Congrats Dice

 

Will read this more thoroughly later. Think you guys are wrong on TG

 

I'm not digging how he is throwing his vote around atm. Seems whomever is getting the most pressure/attention at the time gains his vote.

 

See opportunism.

 

I'd like to see what he has to say about the more recent voting.  I don't think his initial vote on Lenlo was opportunistic, and considering he was the one that started pressuring you, I don't see anything wrong with that.  Latter votes do look more sketchy.  Still, I'm not sure his early actions make sense from a scum perspective, and he seems to actually believe what he's saying.

 

 

I'd like to see what he has to say about the more recent voting.  I don't think his initial vote on Lenlo was opportunistic, and considering he was the one that started pressuring you, I don't see anything wrong with that.  Latter votes do look more sketchy.  Still, I'm not sure his early actions make sense from a scum perspective, and he seems to actually believe what he's saying.

I can follow this logic. Mostly agree. I don't typically unvote until I have a new target but meh. TG is <Rand to be scum.

 

[unvote]

 

 

All right - he's the unvote that AJ gave.  The reasoning makes sense to me, though I'd love if Yates could elaborate on what he didn't agree with.  That'd be my only real hang up with this post...

 

 

I don't think that I've played with him as scum, so I don't know how well he can fake effort and conviction, but it looks fairly convincing for this stage of the game.

He was a scum symp in Basterds Mafia

He was a pretty strong consensus Town read in Woodstock.

 

So he's pretty good at hiding as scum.  I think I have picked up a few tells that he doesn't know about yet from his scum game.  So if he *is* scum and I'm still around, I should know by mid Day 2 or so.

 

 

And maybe give me something to work with from this.  I'm always hesitant to trust any "tells" people have for one another, especially when they're not out in the open.  

 

 

Overall, I don't think it looks horribad.  There does seem to be something to his initial vote not being purely kickstarter, as he seemed to have a slight lean against TG early (I think?), but it doesn't seem like he just dropped the unvote out of desperation.

[Andrej]

I would agree that it doesn't come out of desperation. I just found the timing to be odd, I guess.

[hazelkrs1]

 

WHELP

I hope you've got more than this.

 

 

Nope. The "WHELP" was because I ran out of time trying to catch up in another game so couldn't in here

 

Still behind in the other one but screw it, Imma catch up in here first since it won't take as long

[hazelkrs1]

One of these days I'm going to learn that DM mafia games are different nowadays and that it's not NEARLY as easy to be in a bunch at once

[Andrej]

I would agree that it doesn't come out of desperation. I just found the timing to be odd, I guess.

 

To add to this a bit - I also found the way he sort of explains the unvote odd.

 

"I don't normally unvote without a new target"

 

Stood out to me.

 

It could just be that he has TG as a town read, but in that case I'd like to hear why.

[hazelkrs1]

Hell yeah, my POE is already off to a good start!

 

 

So my strongest town reads are Clov, AJ, TG, BFG, and Key.

 

Speaking of Lenlo, I'm leaving my vote where it is, since it looks like I caught scum after all 

 

Speaking of Arsis, def feel he could be scum here

 

Yates looks bad to me

 

Dice, Hallia, and GF all null for me.

 

Starting from here since I felt good about this before

[hazelkrs1]

Self voting isn't a tantrum Lmao. You should see the nonsense I pulled on jet nation. I reported people who were suspicious of me to the cyber terrorist division of the fbi.

 

 

I don't want to argue semantics but self voting can certainly be construed as a "tantrum." At the very least, it's typically an expression of emotion - typically frustration or rage - when not done "for the lulz" during RVS.

 

^^^

[hazelkrs1]

On a plane about to he wheels up.

 

[unote] [v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Lenlo looks ons scum meta so far, I think Despo made some good obs there. His commentary on Yates is crap, but can't win them all.

 

As for AJ, looking back to the early stuff I still don't like the skimming comment but since then he looks town. His refusal to vote Arsis even with all the aggro going on makes me certain AJ is either town for focusing on the win and not throwing out and emotional vote or they are scummates, and I'm leaning AJ town now.

 

 

BFG is potential scum also, clov looks town so far for observations.

 

Wheels up.

 

Not a fan of bolded, even tho I had TG as town. No explanation for any of those things, and he really should have provided SOME.

[hazelkrs1]

recently questioning BFG, one of my strongest town reads. Specifically the way he did so- first asking others what they thought of her (gauging the thread) then following up once someone (Arsis) bit. Looked like he was trying to look busy and possibly get someone to do his scumhunting for him (and mebbe thought BFG would be an easy target)

Could you explain why you are townreading BFG?

 

Her wot was good, and I can soulread her well off of those, and she defended the TG/AJ spat as town/town in imo an organic way. I think there was something else but for now go with that

[hazelkrs1]

Des is very aware of my scum meta.

 

I wouldn't really agree with this statement btw

 

I've played a number of games with you and I'm pretty sure I HAVE seen you as scum, but I don't distinctly remember when and I certainly dont have an awesome grasp of your scum meta regardless

 

Plus, are you saying I should be reading you as town this game because of meta?

[Yates]

Yates is probably scum too, though.

PROJECTING!!!!1111

[hazelkrs1]

ok so my reads suck atm.

 

on pure gut im thinking BFG Des and Lenlo are scum. BFG and Des i can't explain absolutely gut reaction to their posts. Len is because of that derp   or pretend derp   post.

 

im also wary of AJ  I WANT to say he is town but 2 things make me pause. the fact that i WANT to do it and the extensive defence.

 

 

like i said my reads suck

 

also i wont be around from about an hr from now til tonight as i will be watching my daughter Graduate!!  hmmm maybe im old......

 

Def not a fan of this post. Obv most might see it as OMGUS but BFG looks town to me and Dice gives pretty crappy reasons for suspecting her and I, and he also distances from his reads by saying they suck. Also don't like the soft push against AJ and the "won't be around later" blurb at the end- looks like self-conscious scum. Dice is often not around anyways, so kinda unnecessary thing to say

[hazelkrs1]

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

 

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

This reads scummy. 'ahaha, it's funny to vote me'. I don't like it.

 

I also find it hard to believe that you don't know what RVS is considering how much mafia you play, but meh.

 

This type of play is par for the course for Lenlo.  The Cult of Lenlo joke is long standing.

 

Also, I'm vigging Lenlo tonight.  BOOM!

 

Found Len's response to this when looking through his ISO, so I decided to recheck TG to see where/when his view changed.

 

Key says she thinks Len is scummy for his reaction. TG makes a statement that I perceive as him saying Len is ~null

 

On a plane about to he wheels up.

 

[unote] [v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Lenlo looks ons scum meta so far, I think Despo made some good obs there. His commentary on Yates is crap, but can't win them all.

 

As for AJ, looking back to the early stuff I still don't like the skimming comment but since then he looks town. His refusal to vote Arsis even with all the aggro going on makes me certain AJ is either town for focusing on the win and not throwing out and emotional vote or they are scummates, and I'm leaning AJ town now.

 

No mention of Len again until this point where he votes him saying he's on his scum meta. Like I pointed out earlier with this vote and the previous one on Arsis, both had been coming under ~fire from others in the thread. Again - see: Opportunism or 'going with the flow'

 

Would like an explanation of where this changed for him.

 

 

Hmm.

[Yates]

 Yates COULD  be a bus vote if TG if scum - it's no secret that teammates will go at each other early during RVS so they have an alibi later, but they usually find an excuse to jump off or deflect pressure another way.  The odds of him staying the course on a teammate D1 after you took TG head on are far too low to reasonably consider at this stage.

Yeah, get with it man.  I already found an excuse to jump off and deflect pressure another way!

 

Also, I may be mistaken but I don't remember "going at" TG early during RVS.  I voted him?  Does that count as "going at" him??