Freemasons vs. Illuminati - LOOKING FOR ONE MORE PLAYER, QUICK GAME

[keyholder21]

 

 

recently questioning BFG, one of my strongest town reads. Specifically the way he did so- first asking others what they thought of her (gauging the thread) then following up once someone (Arsis) bit. Looked like he was trying to look busy and possibly get someone to do his scumhunting for him (and mebbe thought BFG would be an easy target)

Interesting point on Yates & BFG.

 

Alright, if you think it's an "interesting point" I'll comment on it.

 

1. I haven't seen a reason for Despo to be so confident in a BFG!Town read.

2. I can use confirmation bias, too. Observe:

I think Des is scummy for soft defending BFG. If he's scum and she's Town, he's white knighting her to get her on his side. If they are scum/scum he is straight up buddying ITT. #notagoodlook

See how that works, Des?

3. Look at the game state. It was *maybe* 20% busy work but it was 80% trying to create discussion outside of the stuff that had already been rehashed. Trying to claim I wanted others to do my scum hunting for me is a cop out to make a case fit a read. Des does this a lot. I was on record as saying precisely what it was about BFG that was bothering me. And I said it to BFG starting in post 177. I made my "benefit of the doubt" post in post 195 but she wasn't around to respond to it. Seemed like a good place to a. add a discussion point and b. get my math checked.

 

You both know my meta. I do my own work. That is a straight up discredit. Acknowledge it and move on.

 

I questioned his solid town read on her too. The part I found interesting was regarding asking the thread about BFG. You are right, however, that you'd questioned her first. I didn't remember that.

 

Regarding knowing your meta, I have only played with you as town, so idk your scum meta. Also, people can change up their meta once they become self-aware, so it should be taken with a grain of salt anyway. You look mostly like yourself, but your attitude toward the fight with Arsis/TG, as much as I like it personally, looks slightly off to me as I mentioned before. I'm trying to decide if it really is because of the Woodstock game and what happened to us, or trying to divert thread flow. Thinking over that is making me consider your other posts in both lights.

[keyholder21]

1) Cause I figured people would understand what I meant?

2) Cause I assumed the wrong thing?

 

What are the point of these questions?!

First one was a serious question. It's weird and scummy that you didn't say that before.

 

Second one was actual confusion. I legit do not get why you apologized when it was Yates's mistake.

 

 

Oh, you're scum. You're always scum

 

 

[unvote] [v]Lenlo[/v]

Can you tell us why you think so?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

recently questioning BFG, one of my strongest town reads. Specifically the way he did so- first asking others what they thought of her (gauging the thread) then following up once someone (Arsis) bit. Looked like he was trying to look busy and possibly get someone to do his scumhunting for him (and mebbe thought BFG would be an easy target)

Interesting point on Yates & BFG.

 

Alright, if you think it's an "interesting point" I'll comment on it.

 

1. I haven't seen a reason for Despo to be so confident in a BFG!Town read.

2. I can use confirmation bias, too. Observe:

I think Des is scummy for soft defending BFG. If he's scum and she's Town, he's white knighting her to get her on his side. If they are scum/scum he is straight up buddying ITT. #notagoodlook

See how that works, Des?

3. Look at the game state. It was *maybe* 20% busy work but it was 80% trying to create discussion outside of the stuff that had already been rehashed. Trying to claim I wanted others to do my scum hunting for me is a cop out to make a case fit a read. Des does this a lot. I was on record as saying precisely what it was about BFG that was bothering me. And I said it to BFG starting in post 177. I made my "benefit of the doubt" post in post 195 but she wasn't around to respond to it. Seemed like a good place to a. add a discussion point and b. get my math checked.

 

You both know my meta. I do my own work. That is a straight up discredit. Acknowledge it and move on.

 

I questioned his solid town read on her too. The part I found interesting was regarding asking the thread about BFG. You are right, however, that you'd questioned her first. I didn't remember that.

 

Regarding knowing your meta, I have only played with you as town, so idk your scum meta. Also, people can change up their meta once they become self-aware, so it should be taken with a grain of salt anyway. You look mostly like yourself, but your attitude toward the fight with Arsis/TG, as much as I like it personally, looks slightly off to me as I mentioned before. I'm trying to decide if it really is because of the Woodstock game and what happened to us, or trying to divert thread flow. Thinking over that is making me consider your other posts in both lights.

 

 

This caught me eye.  I understand questioning why somebody is leaning scum on her if you're leaning town on her, but I'm not sure I see the reasoning in asking for an explanation when somebody sees something the way you do.  

[Yates]

Des is very aware of my scum meta.

 

In regards to "diverting thread flow," there were two fights; Arsis/AJ and TG/AJ. Which "diversion" are you referring to and to what end?

[Yates]

This caught me eye.  I understand questioning why somebody is leaning scum on her if you're leaning town on her, but I'm not sure I see the reasoning in asking for an explanation when somebody sees something the way you do.

Can you rephrase? I'm not able to follow what you are saying here or who you are talking to or about.

[Clovdyx]

Talking to Key, Yates.  Back-to-back posts.

 

recently questioning BFG, one of my strongest town reads. Specifically the way he did so- first asking others what they thought of her (gauging the thread) then following up once someone (Arsis) bit. Looked like he was trying to look busy and possibly get someone to do his scumhunting for him (and mebbe thought BFG would be an easy target)

Could you explain why you are townreading BFG?

Interesting point on Yates & BFG.

 

 

 

BFG is potential scum also, clov looks town so far for observations.

Wheels up.

What about her posts makes you think scum? I went back and looked at them, but I don't see anything that moves her much from null. If anything, I have a very slight town read because of her trying to get people to comment on the TG/AJ er..discussion, which was the biggest thing going at the time.

 

[keyholder21]

Des is very aware of my scum meta.

 

In regards to "diverting thread flow," there were two fights; Arsis/AJ and TG/AJ. Which "diversion" are you referring to and to what end?

 

TG/AJ in regards to the post about it being semantics and then asking about inactives re: scum.

 

 

This caught me eye.  I understand questioning why somebody is leaning scum on her if you're leaning town on her, but I'm not sure I see the reasoning in asking for an explanation when somebody sees something the way you do.

Can you rephrase? I'm not able to follow what you are saying here or who you are talking to or about.

 

I assume he's talking to me.

 

Clov - because I want to know what made him think that? I know why I'm townreading her, but I want to know his line of thinking in regards to his read.

[keyholder21]

This caught me eye.  I understand questioning why somebody is leaning scum on her if you're leaning town on her, but I'm not sure I see the reasoning in asking for an explanation when somebody sees something the way you do.

Because it gives information on the person giving the view. Also, he has her listed as very strong town, and I only have her as slight. If there is an obvious way to better clear her from what she's said, I want to know what that is.

[Yates]

TG/AJ in regards to the post about it being semantics and then asking about inactives re: scum.

It was starting to look like TvT Thunderdome. Also, it was getting exhausting. So I guess technically you're right about steering the conversation but it is clearly Town motivated. I would have no interest in stopping a Town fight as scum [other than to, ironically, look Town]. So I guess I don't see why this would be a concern?

[Clovdyx]

 

Des is very aware of my scum meta.

 

In regards to "diverting thread flow," there were two fights; Arsis/AJ and TG/AJ. Which "diversion" are you referring to and to what end?

 

TG/AJ in regards to the post about it being semantics and then asking about inactives re: scum.

 

 

This caught me eye.  I understand questioning why somebody is leaning scum on her if you're leaning town on her, but I'm not sure I see the reasoning in asking for an explanation when somebody sees something the way you do.

Can you rephrase? I'm not able to follow what you are saying here or who you are talking to or about.

 

I assume he's talking to me.

 

Clov - because I want to know what made him think that? I know why I'm townreading her, but I want to know his line of thinking in regards to his read.

 

 

This sounds grumpy to me.  Is this supposed to be as grumpy as I'm reading it?

[keyholder21]

 

TG/AJ in regards to the post about it being semantics and then asking about inactives re: scum.

It was starting to look like TvT Thunderdome. Also, it was getting exhausting. So I guess technically you're right about steering the conversation but it is clearly Town motivated. I would have no interest in stopping a Town fight as scum [other than to, ironically, look Town]. So I guess I don't see why this would be a concern?

 

 

Gains town cred and looks different from the last game I was in with you, so it piqued my interest. Plus, you know how I feel about going after inactives.

 

 

 

Des is very aware of my scum meta.

 

In regards to "diverting thread flow," there were two fights; Arsis/AJ and TG/AJ. Which "diversion" are you referring to and to what end?

 

TG/AJ in regards to the post about it being semantics and then asking about inactives re: scum.

 

 

This caught me eye.  I understand questioning why somebody is leaning scum on her if you're leaning town on her, but I'm not sure I see the reasoning in asking for an explanation when somebody sees something the way you do.

Can you rephrase? I'm not able to follow what you are saying here or who you are talking to or about.

 

I assume he's talking to me.

 

Clov - because I want to know what made him think that? I know why I'm townreading her, but I want to know his line of thinking in regards to his read.

 

 

This sounds grumpy to me.  Is this supposed to be as grumpy as I'm reading it?

 

LOL. Not meant to be grumpy at all.

[Yates]

Plus, you know how I feel about going after inactives.

Yup. We are on the same page. So why do you think I did that?

[dicetosser1]

ok so my reads suck atm.

 

on pure gut im thinking BFG Des and Lenlo are scum. BFG and Des i can't explain absolutely gut reaction to their posts. Len is because of that derp   or pretend derp   post.

 

im also wary of AJ  I WANT to say he is town but 2 things make me pause. the fact that i WANT to do it and the extensive defence.

 

 

like i said my reads suck

 

also i wont be around from about an hr from now til tonight as i will be watching my daughter Graduate!!  hmmm maybe im old......

[Andrej]

Congrats Dice

 

Will read this more thoroughly later. Think you guys are wrong on TG

 

I'm not digging how he is throwing his vote around atm. Seems whomever is getting the most pressure/attention at the time gains his vote.

 

See opportunism.

[Lenlo]

 

1) Cause I figured people would understand what I meant?

2) Cause I assumed the wrong thing?

 

What are the point of these questions?!

First one was a serious question. It's weird and scummy that you didn't say that before.

 

How was it scummy that I clarified my point? I thought what I said initially was pretty clear, but apparently it wasnt. So I made it clear. Im pretty sure thats exactly what I was asked to do actually. I dont understand the point your trying to make here.

[Arsis]

We still playing this game?

[Clovdyx]

Congrats Dice

 

Will read this more thoroughly later. Think you guys are wrong on TG

 

I'm not digging how he is throwing his vote around atm. Seems whomever is getting the most pressure/attention at the time gains his vote.

 

See opportunism.

 

I'd like to see what he has to say about the more recent voting.  I don't think his initial vote on Lenlo was opportunistic, and considering he was the one that started pressuring you, I don't see anything wrong with that.  Latter votes do look more sketchy.  Still, I'm not sure his early actions make sense from a scum perspective, and he seems to actually believe what he's saying.

 

 

 

I'm saying 'for the luls' doesn't sound like justification to me. Obviously I saw the post if I'm able to comment on it.

 

You're reaching imo and your vote on me now is for what? Potentially skimming? Lol

 

Looking shaky right now bro.

 

[v]TG[/v]

 

Confirmed shook ITT.

 

I really just don't follow the thought process. Len goes from being 'vote worthy' for supposedly justifying his RVS (which I don't see) to turning on me for... what?

 

Why did Lenlo vote?  "For the lulz".  Giving a reason for the joke vote is the very definition of justification.  AJ, the fact that you're waffling on this, saying you saw it but it didn't really look like it, but that maybe you were potentially skimming isnt' a good look.  And then you retort but wait for Yates to vote me before taking action? 

 

AJ conf scum.

 

 

Follow me here AJ. 

 

You and I make tone reads and OP analysis type reads all the time.  I did one on Lenlo that probably shouldn't have raised your eyebrows, IMO.  Instead it did.  So I'm trying to figure out why.  Are you scum team?  Are you mason partners?  What is it that prompted your response to such an early vote with so little behind it?  Moreover, why did you mention skimming, coupled with saying you read it and it wasn't really scummy?  You don't really need multiple lines of defense so early in a game.  So yes, I'm going to turn on your for the early (unnecessary) defense of Lenlo coupled with your strange reasoning.

 

And don't answer about the mason thing, no need to get MK'd. 

 

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/87219-basic-the-matrix-game-over/?p=3141125

 

This is the only one I've been able to find so far on this board and it was from a game several pages back so maybe a bit outdated. TG was town here though and I actually was mafia which makes it funny. It's not recent evidence so perhaps a bit ~null but it still proves that even TG has 'justified' his joke votes.

 

Will continue looking through some games on the others boards as well but for now I think I would very much enjoy seeing TG take the drop this game. I'm just really not buying that he sees any real value in over analyzing RVS votes and I dislike how he focused on semantics and immediately turned aggro towards me when responded to about it. Like I'm still baffled he handled my singular statement in the way he did.

 

AJ, you get some townie points for doing stuff like this.  But don't act like you can't figure out what was behind my early "case" on Lenlo followed by my quick flip for the first person to jump.  If I was on somebody else doing it you'd get it, I think you're being blinded by the fact that it's you.  Or your scum and doing it purposely.  Jury's still out.

 

You want the short and sweet?

 

You should be lynched and probably not play Mafia ever again if this is how you're gonna act to the slightest amount of pressure.

 

You are either a hinderance to Town or more simply scum and faking it. Get your shit together either way.

 

And since when did you become so aggro?  Tell Arsis he deserves to get lynched for his behavior with the self-vote, because he does for the AtE alone.  But telling him not to play mafia is bush-league.

 

 

I don't think that I've played with him as scum, so I don't know how well he can fake effort and conviction, but it looks fairly convincing for this stage of the game.

[Yates]

I'd like to see what he has to say about the more recent voting.  I don't think his initial vote on Lenlo was opportunistic, and considering he was the one that started pressuring you, I don't see anything wrong with that.  Latter votes do look more sketchy.  Still, I'm not sure his early actions make sense from a scum perspective, and he seems to actually believe what he's saying.

I can follow this logic. Mostly agree. I don't typically unvote until I have a new target but meh. TG is <Rand to be scum.

 

[unvote]

[Yates]

I don't think that I've played with him as scum, so I don't know how well he can fake effort and conviction, but it looks fairly convincing for this stage of the game.

He was a scum symp in Basterds Mafia

He was a pretty strong consensus Town read in Woodstock.

 

So he's pretty good at hiding as scum.  I think I have picked up a few tells that he doesn't know about yet from his scum game.  So if he *is* scum and I'm still around, I should know by mid Day 2 or so.

[keyholder21]

 

Plus, you know how I feel about going after inactives.

Yup. We are on the same page. So why do you think I did that?

 

 

I remember you defending my opinion on it, but I don't recall your feeling that way about going after inactives.  I suppose it could be trying to get AJ/TG out of the circle jerk they were in, but why ask about inactives in particular then?  Why not ask about the rest of the players instead?  

 

 

 

1) Cause I figured people would understand what I meant?

2) Cause I assumed the wrong thing?

 

What are the point of these questions?!

First one was a serious question. It's weird and scummy that you didn't say that before.

 

How was it scummy that I clarified my point? I thought what I said initially was pretty clear, but apparently it wasnt. So I made it clear. Im pretty sure thats exactly what I was asked to do actually. I dont understand the point your trying to make here.

 

 

I didn't say that it was scummy that you clarified your point.  I think it's scummy that you didn't use the clearer version to begin with.  But gj twisting what I said. IMO you gave descriptive examples of why you thought AJ and Clov were town, but all you said about Arsis was that he was distancing/stalling not really playing, with no examples as to why you thought that.

[keyholder21]

I don't think that I've played with him as scum, so I don't know how well he can fake effort and conviction, but it looks fairly convincing for this stage of the game.

I probably should go back and reread the Woodstock game, because for most of it, I admittedly was focused on saving myself/Yates from being lynched so I didn't pay that much attention to TG's game.

[Lenlo]

 

 

Plus, you know how I feel about going after inactives.

Yup. We are on the same page. So why do you think I did that?

 

 

I remember you defending my opinion on it, but I don't recall your feeling that way about going after inactives.  I suppose it could be trying to get AJ/TG out of the circle jerk they were in, but why ask about inactives in particular then?  Why not ask about the rest of the players instead?  

 

 

 

1) Cause I figured people would understand what I meant?

2) Cause I assumed the wrong thing?

 

What are the point of these questions?!

First one was a serious question. It's weird and scummy that you didn't say that before.

 

How was it scummy that I clarified my point? I thought what I said initially was pretty clear, but apparently it wasnt. So I made it clear. Im pretty sure thats exactly what I was asked to do actually. I dont understand the point your trying to make here.

 

 

I didn't say that it was scummy that you clarified your point.  I think it's scummy that you didn't use the clearer version to begin with.  But gj twisting what I said. IMO you gave descriptive examples of why you thought AJ and Clov were town, but all you said about Arsis was that he was distancing/stalling not really playing, with no examples as to why you thought that.

 

Ugh im not arguing this point, its just going to turn into semantics. I know what I meant and I thought it obvious what I meant. It was apparently not, so I rephrased. End of.

 

I think AJ and Clov are town. Im null on TG, cant decide how I want to take his posts.

 

I would like to hear more from Dice, GF and BFG, though I know Dice was busy today with his daughters graduation. (Congrats on that btw!)

[Arsis]

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

[Yates]

I remember you defending my opinion on it, but I don't recall your feeling that way about going after inactives.

Check the QT. Posts 42 and 45.

 

"Frankly, I agree with you. They got pretty lucky on some lurker lynches and are misremembering it as they KNEW that lurker was scum. It happens a lot."

 

I suppose it could be trying to get AJ/TG out of the circle jerk they were in, but why ask about inactives in particular then?  Why not ask about the rest of the players instead?

The game was more than half inactive. It was also a call to post, as I mentioned to you when you posted a few minutes later. It was like a swiss army knife of uses for me.

[Lenlo]

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

Do it! D1 vig dream!