Freemasons vs. Illuminati - LOOKING FOR ONE MORE PLAYER, QUICK GAME

[Andrej]

TG gets some townie points for starting the game with his vote on AJ, will be interested to see where he goes with it, and I want to understand his definition of tone reading, but slight town read.

 

AJs reaction seems town at the moment, a little concerned that he's not commenting on other stuff at the moment.

 

Clov looks good to me at the moment

 

Lenlo also seems quite self focused at the moment

 

Arsis looks bad for his 'pressure' vote on AJ followed by the quick retreat.

 

Don't feel very strongly about this post in general. It reads more like basic commentary on the thread events more so than actual analysis, but meh. My read here will develop as the game progresses.

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Arsis [/v]

 

Lynch Clovdyx tomorrow when I flip town.

 

Are you serious right now?  The only thing you've done besides point fingers based off nothing is contradict yourself by saying you didn't call AJ scum when you literally just got done listing him in your solve.  There's literally no reason I - or anybody else - should be reading you as town right now, so if you actually ARE, stop posting garbage like this and use arguments to defend yourself and push your candidates.  Me suspecting you doesn't make me mafia.

 

I think this post is probably villagery of Clov. He's be a tinfoil suspect just because I think he's good enough to fake the funk as scum, but for now I generally feel good about him.

[Andrej]

 

There's no 3rd Party in this set up.

 

Just Town and Mafia, or Illuminati for flavor.

 

Saying Arsis is 'not-town' isn't inaccurate though.

 

Bad play doesn't make scum though, sadly.

 

Whered you get this? Was there a rule line I didnt read?

 

Look at the OP dufus.

 

The set-up is open.

[Lenlo]

Oh... Thats what that second spoiler was. Welp. Im gonna... go try and be useful somewhere else I guess. Its not going so well on this front.

[Andrej]

No, I don't think you're bullying me. I think you're on the level of a middle school bully in your mentality. Someone does something you don't agree with do you explain to them why you don't agree and why it bothers you with word like an adult or do you resort to childish insults and attempts to ostracize them from the group?

 

 

You're a middle school bully. Just because you don't agree with my stance/logic doesn't mean anything if you present yourself like a child.

 

Dude - I'm not really interested in arguing with you over this. Bottom line is that *IF* you are town, self voting in the manner you did is literally going to get you nowhere. A town flip would prove your suspicions were genuine, but that doesn't make them right. Clov could very well be mafia in this case, but since you handled his pressure in the manner you did, you come out looking worse.

 

Does that make sense? All I'm asking is you to keep a level head and put your thoughts out there clearly. Reacting in the manner you did is going to make it hard for others to read you, because for all I now, you could've just done it as a ploy in order to appeal to the logic "scum would never do that"

[Arsis]

I'm interested in arguing over it. An adult shouldn't resort to petty name calling out of spite and attempts to ostracize people from the group. Are you in the cast of mean girls? This isn't acceptable for a child let alone and adult.

 

 

You're discussing it now but your initial reaction was very immature. I'm not the only one to say so. At the end of the day it's just a game. Some people play to have fun not to win.

[Andrej]

Oh... Thats what that second spoiler was. Welp. Im gonna... go try and be useful somewhere else I guess. Its not going so well on this front.

 

Not sure if genuine or if Lenlo is looking to get #derpcleared here.

 

I have my reservations on this because in the last game we played together Hallia made a similar post as mafia that I was able to kind of point to as something 'scum would never say'

[Yates]

I play to have fun AND to win.

 

So can we keep this game related and stop being overly personal?  No name calling and let's drop it from here on out.  Cool?

[Arsis]

I play to have fun AND to win.

 

So can we keep this game related and stop being overly personal? No name calling and let's drop it from here on out. Cool?

Deal.

[Lenlo]

 

Oh... Thats what that second spoiler was. Welp. Im gonna... go try and be useful somewhere else I guess. Its not going so well on this front.

 

Not sure if genuine or if Lenlo is looking to get #derpcleared here.

 

I have my reservations on this because in the last game we played together Hallia made a similar post as mafia that I was able to kind of point to as something 'scum would never say'

 

Then how about you dont try to clear me on something that isnt gameplay? I hated how everyone that game cleared Hallia on something that wasnt actual gameplay.

 

That post was a joke about my being stupid, nothing more.

[Hallia]

<3 You're not stupid Lenly beautiful

[Arsis]

Hallia who are your scum reads?

[Andrej]

I wasn't really trying to clear you though Len.

 

I'm trying to decide whether I feel you're feigning ignorance of the set-up or being genuine.

 

Either way, probably not a solid tell but it does catch my attention because of recent events as I explained.

[Hallia]

No one at the moment.  Not enough posted has gone on for me to get a scum read on anyone.

[Arsis]

Aj, if I'm scum. Who's on my team?

[Andrej]

I'm not convinced you are.

 

More likely just a bad townie imo

 

TG is my #1 scum read and I doubt I'm budging on that.

 

Other than him I don't have really solid reads yet

[Andrej]

Follow me here AJ. 

 

You and I make tone reads and OP analysis type reads all the time.  1) I did one on Lenlo that probably shouldn't have raised your eyebrows, IMO.  Instead it did.  So I'm trying to figure out why.  2) Are you scum team?  Are you mason partners?  3) What is it that prompted your response to such an early vote with so little behind it?  4) Moreover, why did you mention skimming, coupled with saying you read it and it wasn't really scummy?  You don't really need multiple lines of defense so early in a game.  So yes, I'm going to turn on your for the early (unnecessary) defense of Lenlo coupled with your strange reasoning.

 

And don't answer about the mason thing, no need to get MK'd. 

 

1) I have already explained how I think your logic here is bad. Len didn't 'justify' his vote and I think you framing this as a guilty conscious tell is bad and likely scum motivated.

 

2) I don't feel at all that you were trying to discern mine or Lenlo's alignment or connection in this instance. If you thought we could possibly be Mason partners, why would you vote me then?

 

3) Again, I think you're over selling this bit. How was my response indicative in any way? I literally said "I don't see justification"

 

4) I mentioned skimming because of your reaction to my response. You immediately attacked me because apparently I didn't 'see' what you were saying and because you brought up the fact that the game was only a page deep, which I think was sort of irrelevant. Like I said earlier, if I was able to comment on the post - and give opinion - that it should be obvious that I looked at it.

 

Wait this is a serious argument? Im confused as to why you think thats justification TG, for what was a joke vote. "For the lulz" isnt an argument for anything nor is it justification. I dont need justification for a joke vote. Its the equivalent of me going "Hey Arsis remember that game you were a survivor? I do. With love."

 

 

 

I dont need justification for a joke vote.

 

Exactly, you don't.   So why did you say it was "for the lulz"?

 

Because it was for the lulz...? The statement is exactly what the vote was for. I voted Arsis because it would be funny for me because of a previous game we played together in. I dont understand why your pushing this so much, this isnt your first time playing with me.

 

These are probably townie posts from Len.

 

 

That's exactly the point though. I think your early case was a reach, when I guess is fine in a vacuum if you're playing for reactions - but how can you perceive my simple statement as a genuine bonafide reaction tell?

 

You said Len was vote worthy which I took as you implying he was scummy. Justification in this context would be him over explanining his vote, which frankly I didn't see. So yeah, I'm pretty lost on how that made you turn around and think that I was confirmed scum. I think if anything it makes you look bad for pushing something null as scummy and then your hyper aggressive reaction towards me. Looked very jumpy imo.

 

I've posted multiple times that my early case was a reach.  I even responded directly to Lenlo to say it was.  And I took your reaction and ran with the vote to pressure you.  IMO you didn't hold up well be conflating skimming with over justifying, which I viewed as a bit fence-sitty.  Moreover, it bothered me that you waited on Yates to take action before jumping since Yates vote was clearly a trap vote.

 

I didn't actually see this earlier so I'll respond to it now.

 

Quote me the post in which you're responding to Len saying that it's a reach because apparently I missed it on my reread just now.

 

I really don't see how you think I didn't hold up well. I addressed you point by point and tried to get you to clarify your stance. I never hedged or waffled on the matter. You said Len was vote worthy for the justification on his Arsis vote. I said that I didn't see this. You turned around and voted me. That's the literal summary of the events.

 

I have also commented on the timing of my vote irt Yates voting you. I didn't wait on Yates for anything. I responded to you, Yates voted you for reasons other than the topic at hand and then made a comment agreeing with me that you looked shaky, so I added my vote as well.

[Clovdyx]

Can someone tell me if BFG is just confused or scum trying to start a bs narrative? I want to see if anyone else sees what I see.

 

Originally I thought her line of questioning was based on a pretty valid observation and thought you looked worse for your portrayal of her case in post 195, so I went back to re-evaluate.  After double checking, I'm leaning towards confusion.  I don't think there's any merit to her argument for the reasons you pointed out, but I don't think it's a deliberate misrepresentation to cause a mislynch.  She's voting Arsis, hasn't advocated moving the lynch in your direction, and hasn't even painted you as scum for it.

[Graendals favourite]

Only for you AJ, will I start trying before D2.

 

@Len - there's a 66 2/3% chance you are scum. Prove me/Arsis wrong. Tell me your thoughts on AJ and Clov. I actually don't know Clov at all so that might help.

I think AJ and Clov are both town. AJ respond reasonably to TGs arguments, he didnt try and deflect anything, he took TGs arguments head on and addressed/countered each and every one of them. Thats a towny way to argue back if ive ever seen one.

 

Clov has been asking good questions and getting people to think or clear up/clarify their arguments and this also looks good to me. Scum would prefer it if peoples arguments weren't clearly defines, they would want them to be easier to abuse and they are that way when they are unclear. I also like his posts about Arsis, they ring true to me. Arsis hasnt really been doing anything... meaningful imo. Hes been stalling/distracting/not really playing. and thats scummy imo, though im also a person who doesnt care at all about meta I dont keep track of it.

 

So Clov & AJ = Towny

Arsis = Leaning scum/not-town.

 

I say not town because im not sure if this is how he is as scum but it does remind me abit of how he was as a survivor, which was third party.

I just read this and immediately started thinking Lenlo could be scum. In which case I then gathered Clov to be townish, and AJ leaning there too, Arsis not sure. Just because the post seemed to me to be keeping the Arsis name afloat without really seeming to suggest voting there.

 

I'm not sure how much the voting patterns help here, well have to start somewhere. Try to scrutinise them that is.

[Graendals favourite]

Ah, don't really see anything in the voting, not enough of it. I'll just think of it as a theory.

[Graendals favourite]

Ah, don't really see anything in the voting, not enough of it. I'll just think of it as a theory.

[hazelkrs1]

Alright, time to #solve this sucker now

[Yates]

 

I play to have fun AND to win.

 

So can we keep this game related and stop being overly personal? No name calling and let's drop it from here on out. Cool?

Deal.

 

Thanks, man. You my nego.  

[Yates]

Not sure if genuine or if Lenlo is looking to get #derpcleared here.

I'm treating it as if it never happened. I've done something like this as both alignments. Remember last game how I forgot who the N1 kill was and had him in my willing to lynch list?

[hazelkrs1]

Hell yeah, my POE is already off to a good start!

 

 

So my strongest town reads are Clov, AJ, TG, BFG, and Key. Clov came in first to break up what also looked to me like v/v violence between TG and AJ, and also pressured Arsis when I would have as well. So town there. AJ looks town for WIM, tone, and passion. Specifically felt he was REALLY likely to be town after an earlier triple post by him earlier in the game- looked like him being legit emotional about TG's push on him but also trying to step back and make sense out of it. Only thing that might make me tinfoil about him later is his townread on Lenlo which I DON'T agree with but meh, def a town feel for now. TG initially looked a bit opportunistic, but is also displaying high WIM and while he can look active as scum, he will often wait a bit more to make more consensus reads and gauge the thread. This game he jumped in immediately, and while I found his early pushes to be bad, overall he looks more likely to be on his town game. BFG I can read pretty well when she does a wot, and she looked town there, and is also #mindmelding with me a lot. Paying attention to small details too, which is a big towntell for her. Key has #mindmelded with me even more so, especially on Lenlo, and has had good tone as well.

 

Speaking of Lenlo, I'm leaving my vote where it is, since it looks like I caught scum after all

 

Srs do, look at his posts during the TG/AJ spat. Deflects my vote on him, then still jokey jokey even tho gameplay had started. And like AJ pointed out- where is this new and improved town game Lenlo keeps telling us he's going to whip out? Def not in this game apparently

 

Also feel he was trying to derp himself clear with the third party thing. Not just suggesting it in the first place, but then after being corrected he's like "Oh rly? Durn..." which looked close to lolcatting to me. And generally speaking the first person to mention third party in a game, especially suspecting someone of BEING third party, is usually scum. Oh and his reasoning on Arsis being scum looked totally half-arsed btw. Said he's not doing much or something like that, which was stupid considering Arsis was one of the people that WAS posting at the time but was suddenly a consensus scum read.

 

Speaking of Arsis, def feel he could be scum here. He himself has stated that as scum he will have fake tantrums, and well I just don't think his tantrum was deserved this time. AJ was a bit agro but NOTHING compared to someone like Tommy or something, and furthermore the stuff AJ was saying was right. Also Arsis looked like he might be working in tandem a bit with Yates who is another big suspect for me.

 

Yates looks bad to me for three things- white knighting Arsis (could either be scummates with him or trying to defend a flustered townie to look protown), trying to redirect focus during the TG/AJ spat by asking AJ who he would look at out of the inactives, looked like fake scumhunting to me and possible buddying, and then recently questioning BFG, one of my strongest town reads. Specifically the way he did so- first asking others what they thought of her (gauging the thread) then following up once someone (Arsis) bit. Looked like he was trying to look busy and possibly get someone to do his scumhunting for him (and mebbe thought BFG would be an easy target)

 

Dice, Hallia, and GF all null for me.

[Lenlo]

 Said he's not doing much or something like that, which was stupid considering Arsis was one of the people that WAS posting at the time but was suddenly a consensus scum read.

 

Des, you missed what I meant. Yes he was posting at the time but nothing he was posting had substance. He was whining about how AJ was a middle school bully who took his lunch money and how he doesnt care if hes lynched D1 blah blah blah. He was doing jack all and coasting through with it.