[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

鲍勃不是我的名字 · July 31, 2014

Of course he didn't even bother waiting for Darthe's possible result.

Did you just make a reasonable point?

No dude...I'm still trolling you...;)

鲍勃不是我的名字 · July 31, 2014

I... what?

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently.

The thing is, I really don't know man. Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before. I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop. I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it.

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR. I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not.

Why the style change? Do you think this one is better? I had an easier time clearing you for the other one.

What does LLL mean?

I'm trying to find a balance between the two. I was having a hard time with logic and reads in this game so I tried shaking things up. TG was pinging me with his early gameplay (focus on an inactive, then flop between silly and serious) but I went for it. His reaction furthered me into a mindset that I must have been onto something.

My old way sometimes would hurt the town more than help, but it also sometimes lead to some brilliant mafia catching. I feel much more relaxed as a VT and I can be a bit more aggressive with my plays than if I was roled or mafia.

I'll have more details tomorrow, but here is the thing....I think you're my #2 mafia. I think you have been playing a spectacular game and have been asking the right questions, putting just enough distance from the other scummies as you could, but I think this whole "im not trolling this time" has been a gambit from the beginning. It was a very well thought out cover for how you were going to play more low key.

#1 is Clov actually. He seems to be looking for who he can get a lynch going on, but Nyn's half-arsed deal with him pinged me the most.

#3 is Not Bob, who has been hovering at #2 for a while until my last re-read.

#4 is TG for reasons beaten more than an army of dead horses.

#5 is Rand, who is still a scum candidate for reasons to be given tomorrow.

These aren't on a scale of Scum to Town. These are on a scale of OMG SCUM to Pretty Scummy.

Darthe is one who I am beginning to question but still, Occam's Razor says he's the cop.

LLL = Lying Liar who Lies.

You're reading me as scum because I made a conscious effort to avoid the same behaviors that got me lynched in other games? That should be a null tell. But how do you have me as scummier than NB? That's MIND BOGGLING.

In fairness he setting this up throughout the last night phase.

鲍勃不是我的名字 · July 31, 2014

IMO if TG, Rand, or Tom are scum they've played well enough to warrant the win and can keep the damn thing. This game should be locked between those three and myself and the only potential reason to teeter on any of them is the NK selections and that blind hammer.

Just before daybreak.

Clovdyx · July 31, 2014

NB, what's your scumteam then? Clov/Mynd?

Mynd, you should be trying to convince me why Clov is scum.

Clov, you should be trying to convince me why Mynd is scum.

NB, you should be trying to convince me how Clov and Mynd fit together.

I made a case yesterday why I thought he was scum. To add onto that from today, I don't see why that should have changed.

Notably this is lylo. You have to vote with me if you are town so whenever I put a vote down I want town to pile on it. If anyone else puts a vote down they are in essence revealing themselves as mafia today.

I'm with you on this. I still feel very comfortable with my vote on Tommy at the moment, but I'm sure you know that I can change should something catch my eye. I hope I haven't been giving off mixed signals but that bandwagon on Drunk Tank the other day still bothers me.

Just another point about my earlier reaction test on TG. I don't like how Tommy white knighted my points about TG only to back-track on him right about the time that TG was talking about the doc stuff. An experienced player like Tommy would know when someone is trying to play a trick on the mafia, so I'm sure he picked up on it.

Still, when you really boil down to it, the true proof in mafia is how the votes go down. Am I right?

I don't know where to begin with this. The first two statements make it seem like he's giving away any responsibility for working towards the lynch and instead is going to blindly follow Darthe around. I don't expect anybody to actively push Darthe, but I also don't expect town to roll over and sheep a vote onto somebody they don't think is lockscum.

Second paragraph is a huge misrepresentation of the facts and reeks of trying to come up with a reason to NOT clear Tom. Tom said Mynd's case had some valid points but was a 4/10. I don't see how that could be described as "White Knighting", and a townie SHOULD be willing to change their opinion.

The italics are just weird. It seems like he's trying to softclaim or hint at something here, but with cop claimed and the doc dead, I don't see why he wouldn't just hardclaim if he had something that could clear him.

Rand, if you place your vote on Clov, I have mine on Tommy, and Darthe has his on Not Bob......we have ourselves in a similar situation as we did on D1. Do you understand what I am saying here? The scum need two town votes on one townie in order to successfully hammer. They know this and we know this. You could vote me or Clov, but as long as you/me/darthe spread our votes out, it forces the mafia to make a decision. They are waiting for two votes to land on a player right now.

It wasn't a symp hint. I was trying to let Darthe know that I will change my vote when he signals me to do so. I felt like Darthe was trying to reaction test to see who was going to pile on NotBob, but I also figured that no one still in this game is dumb enough to do that.

I think we need to spread our votes around. The moment any two of us townies vote together on a non-scum, then the mafia will dogpile and its game over.

This might be true if a majority was needed for a lynch, but it's not. Scum just has to work together to make sure a townie (or townies) are the highest vote getters at End of Phase. Somehow I don't feel Mynd has forgotten this.

Tommy was right.....a game full of unreadable players. For the most part....

Townitown Mansion

Myndrunner - Yes, I may be old, but I'm still a townie who can think for himself without the MCP looking over his shoulder. Get off my motherboard you dang kids!

Slightly Town Condos

Nullville Apartments

Drunk Tank - First few posts established himself well, he won't be a vegetable. He seems to be trying and following along but hasn't quite assymilated the culture yet, which isn't a bad thing. Feels like my drunk uncle signing up in my fantasy football league and then mixing it up with my friends during the live draft. "Joe Montana is an American Icon, dammit! *hic* They named a STATE after him! *BURP!*" Like this post right here trying to get the game moving. Good overall grasp of decent mafia play here.

BeefArmi - Another tough read. Townish early posts, but I don't like this sheep-vote of Darthe with TG. The Armi part of the hydra seems like applying the right amount of pressure without coming across as a witchhunter.

Vos - A little more jovial than normal in this game. Makes a point about "sitting back" usually means scum here. The fact that my #1 FOS is calling him LOCKTOWN bothers me. His debate with Rand seems like two townies arguing semantics while wagging FOS at each other. I typically have a town read on Vos and a scum read on Rand regardless of alignment. Good reasoning like this one here.

NotBob - ランドの固体を読むここで.   彼はかなりの変態ファンですHentai 私は見ているよりもっとたくさん冗談を言ってください。 Nyn's Boobs は彼を気が散る. 良い質問です!!! LOL

TommyRod - The contract, to me, seems like a townie who doesn't want emotions (his or others) to distract from scumhunting. Sitting back with popcorn is something Vos should have pounced on. He seems like he's trying to play objectively and not let emotions cloud his judgement. That would be a townie play, but then again, he's letting a lot of us do the scumhunt work for him. Hence: popcorn.

Rand al'Thor - I don't like his initial vote, seemed like he overkilled the explanation and even had to edit it. The fact that it was on me is actually only a small part of it. Tommy adds to my initial FOS here. His explanation to his OMGUS on Vos makes me hate puppies. Agreeing with me normally makes me nervous (because I rarely agree with me unless I'm scum) but this is reinforcing what I did and TG's reaction.

Nynlia - Normal NynLia play so far. Nyn antagonistic and Hally being over-buddying. Nothing stands out as scum or town so far, which means they are probably scum. Not enough to push them in either direction at this point. Like BeefArmi said, we need more.

Slightly Scum Motel

Darthe - This post makes me have the diabetes. Basically, he is saying everyone who posted before him is town except Drunk Tank. His "slightly town" lean on Tommy seems like he wants to say "SCUM" but doesn't want to take on Tommy just yet. He's gone for a while and explains this because life happens, but his return to game post is half-arsed and all over the place. He gets a scum read on NotBob but totally misses the L1 comment as Tommy points out here. Locks Leno as town because....why? and a GFY to me? Darthe slightly scum.

Clov - My only reference to Kronos in this game will be to point out TG going after Kronos (an inactive) so early in the game. This read will be 100% Clov..........um, yeah.....so. *shrugs*   Nyn points out his lack of aggressive gameplay. This isn't a townie Clov.

Scum Salad Projects

TG - I find his reaction to my case (weak or not) incredibly off the charts and that makes him my number one scumbad at the time. Don't let the cute puppy fool you, he starts off with his retort to Lenlo here then promptly votes an inactive in his second post right after it.   Kissing up to Tommy here then hastily deflects to ask Tommy about Vos here.   More kissing up here and here like he's running for TOWNIEST of TOWNIES. Then flails when I case him, and promises that he will brb when my case will be destroyed by the destroyer's hand of destruction. Won't lynch DT because he's new to DM?     Here is his "explanation" when pressed by Nyn. (My first case on TG here)

This = my case being "destroyed"

Lenlo - Between the two, he responded only slightly better than TG to my casing report. It started with his "joke" vote of TG here. The interaction that got me more suspicious started here so read it yourself and lemme know what you think. Seemed like a "HEY YOU" which amounted to a silly gif. VERY suspicious. The extent that the two of them slammed my case, weak or not, was quite an overreaction. It was less explaining and more aimed at discrediting me. This also stood out to me.

Mynd, knowing what we know now, I hate this post.

A lot of your reasoning is shallow or unexplained, like Darthe being scum for trying to placate me (which assumes I'm town, which is funny since I'm not in your town list, nobody is) or Len being scum because he made a joke vote on TG or agreed with TG that your case was bad. You try to FOS Vos for not jumping on me for saying popcorn (?). Your read on Drunk looks like a capricious clear of a non-threatening player. The post you linked to saying DT was getting the game going is nonsense. You use a point Nyn made to call Clov scummy, then call Nyn scum but put her in the null category anyway. You didn't say anything about NB at all, just linked to 3 of his most trollish posts.

???

In that post you said "I typically have a town read on Vos and a scum read on Rand regardless of alignment." You asked me about Rand, what's your interpretation of him? If you usually have a scum read on him, what does that say about him (or you) that you haven't been pushing him in this game? Is he unusually townie to you this game?

I asked you about Rand first, Tommy. What do you feel about him?

Also, you are on D1. A lot has happened since then. This was even pre-TG fisticuffs.

@Tommy - here is a much more updated and relevant casing for you.

All that talk about me and TG yesterday makes a lot more sense now. I thought it would be me instead though, but I guess I'm the one they figured for lynch instead.

First things first,

[v] TommyRod [/v]

I could go Clov instead, but lets take out the ring leader first.

My case as promised.

TownieTown Mansion

Darthe - UNcc'd cop in a basic game. Mafia doesn't need to kill him if they can just roleblock him to kingdom come. His value, besides his scumhunting skills, are that he is a nearly cleared townie.

Mynd - I may be old, but I remember when Vanilla was just vanilla, not this French Vanilla crap...and the MCP was just a calculator!!!

Slightly Town Condos

TG - I was already pulling back on TG before he tried to direct the DOC read. I was hoping that my responses would suggest to the mafia that I was the DOC and that they should kill me instead. I'm sure the mafia figured the same thing that I did. Scum TG would not have engaged me like he did. PR'd TG would though. Then, when Tommy started rekindling the fire between us, I knew we were being set up. I just thought that I was going to be the one dead today not him.

Rand - He's been trying to clear more townies then find scum, a tandem that I thought would work better with my grass beating, but more on that post-game.

Nullville Hotel

Slightly Scum Motel

Xthrax - He's OBVIOUSLY corrupted by the MCP!

Not Bob - I've played only a couple games with him, but he's kinda like Krak. He definitely doesn't seem like someone who is pushing any kind of agenda.

SCUMBAD SALAD

Tommy & Clov - If you read back this last night phase, it reads like two players trying to figure out who would be the easy lynch, but the key to their demise is what went down with Drunk Tank. They both realized that if they hammered DT, they would still be in a position to pull out a win.

Tommy has been a hard read because I like playing with non-troll Tommy, but his no-emo contract was a bit over the top. I was surprised he gave my case assessment against TG a 4/10 instead of a 0/10 because it was totally out of my arse. I was just trying to gauge a reaction from TG.....and I got one that distracted me from them.

Day 2, I was on to Clov, but then I got mixed up in the TG mess again and started believing him to be scumbad.

What I noticed about Tommy and Clov was that they were working in tandem, tossing just enough suspicion at each other to warrant some distancing but still kinda white knighting each other when you strip down their musings. Clov only chose to case two players last night, but they served the same purpose.....isolate the Day 4 lynch to one of two players: NotBob or Me.

Re-read Clov's case on Tommy here. It sounds like someone you hire to politically spin a congressman to sound positive yet real. "Sure, he kinda looks scummy here and there, but wow he must be town because a scum would never say xxxxxx" ITs all fluff and is designed to direct the rest of us off Tommy and onto me and NotBob. He uses the same jargon as Tommy and puts either/or decisions at our feet.

THe Tommy/NotBob exchange is not town/town so one of them has to be scum........then later says Tommy is looking town.

If we lose this game, I'll take partial responsibility for playing a bit more aloof than I should have. I had a hard time getting a good read on people this round, but I also should have stuck to a more logic and less reactionary approach. I figured I was vanilla town and expendable. I didn't expect to make it this far.

I prefer playing with logic and rational Tommy. Too bad it was all a calculated way to keep him from getting lynched early. If you notice though, his questions and prodding have been carefully designed to point us at the wrong players. Drunk Tank, then last night's insistence on a dialog between myself and TG. He had to get it out there or their choice of NK would not have been as big of an impact.

Anyways, there you have it. Lynch Tommy or Clov today. Otherwise, we lynch another townie and lose.

First he immediately counters a question by saying "I asked you first" instead of giving an answer to the question, and he asked me why I'm town on Rand. Mynd, if you're leaning that Rand is one of the mafia here, what's your reasoning? It looks like you're trying to get somebody to write a case for you.

Second, his point about the reads list being outdated is fair, you used an old one. So he reposts one from earlier where you are his top suspects...even though he seemingly is reading you as town now and decided it has to be notbob and one of us based on the vote. If that's the case, why try to correct your outdated list of his by posting a DIFFERENT list that is now outdated? Doesn't it make more sense to just make a new list?

Tommyrod · July 31, 2014

Okay, so...

Clov has had Mynd/NB as a scumteam since his opener today.

Mynd changed from Tommy/Clov to [TCC] NB/Clov with a side of Rand?

NB changed from Tommy/Clov to Tommy/Mynd to [TCC] Mynd/Clov?

* [TCC] indicates the moment Tommy became consensus clear.

So Clov came in leaning town on me and Mynd & NB both wanted to lynch me until it no longer became feasible to do so.

But said another way, Clov and NB are both pushing Mynd and Mynd is pushing them both back. Well, kinda... he's not really pushing anybody at the moment, just POE. I agree with Clov that it looked like he wanted people to case Rand for him.

Based solely on scumteam evolution I could see Mynd/NB as a team, particularly with Mynd subtly advocating for a no lynch to remove Darthe from the equation (given Darthe has Rand and I as town and NB as scum).

Tommyrod · July 31, 2014

NotBob: you have to give me a lot more before I consider you as a townie. If you keep fighting and keep making points, I'll observe with interest. If you're town, fight to get clear. Don't give up. Let me be your inspiration. Just think "wow, that Tommy guy sure is awesome" and draw from the deep well of my magic powers.

鲍勃不是我的名字 · July 31, 2014

NotBob: you have to give me a lot more before I consider you as a townie. If you keep fighting and keep making points, I'll observe with interest. If you're town, fight to get clear. Don't give up. Let me be your inspiration. Just think "wow, that Tommy guy sure is awesome" and draw from the deep well of my magic powers.

This makes me want to self vote

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

I don't know what else to say at this point. I'm not going to pretend or hide my true thoughts at all. I think any of you could be scum. I'll go back and answer any questions I missed, but at this point, I can't figure this out. The only thing I can do at this point is try to convince you that I am indeed an old man who is vanilla town. Character claims, of course, mean squat these days but I've dropped hints at who I am since I first ate a digitized orange on D1.

At the end of the day, we're going to have to go with what is most likely and eliminate the maybe and might be scenarios. We are probably making this a lot worse on us than we should, and I think my own paranoia has caused me to look a lot more scummy than I should have, but I'm considering all kinds of possibilities.

Next post...where I am with each person.

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

I'm gonna try and go from least likely to most likely scum.

Darthe

Why he is likely town - He's an uncc'd cop claim. That by itself holds a lot of weight in a Basic game. If there is a roleblocker in this game, it explains why he is still alive. A roleblocked cop is essentially a cleared vanilla townie. Why worry about him when the scum can go doc hunting?

Why he could be a liar and scum - The whole faking Drunk Tank thing was sketchy. Now, he's trying to say it was our fault because we made him believe DT was scum. Why did he even need to make that implication at this point in the game when everyone has pretty much written him off as clear?

Verdict: very likely town

Rand

Why he is likely town - Many of his postings, especially in this last part of the game, have made a lot of sense. I disagree with him on Not Bob and a few other points, but the only inconsistency he has had was taking me from his top town read to one of his scumbads. It doesn't make one scum to change one's mynd though.

Why he could be scum - We all have kinda written him off as town and that is scary because when did we decide that he was town? I am also always leery of those who buddy up to me or validate my cases when I don't even believe in them that much to begin with. Rand has done a lot of that this game, calling me his strongest town read very early on. That's the kind of buddy-buddy that leads me to think...hmmm scum.

Verdict: good chance of being town

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

NotBob

Why he might be town - He seems like he's working alone. As the only survivor from the D1 three-way, he hasn't really made a vote move that I would consider scummy. He is right to follow Darthe's lead as he has been. His "trolling" is as much a scumshaker as it could be interpreted as a scum tell.

Why he is probably scum - As the only survivor of the D1 three-way, it makes sense that he was the one the scum didn't want to vote on. That situation put the scum in a difficult position. If they voted Lenlo or Beefarmi, then they could risk looking like they were saving NotBob. If they voted NotBob, they could end up making him the lynch. At that time, I recall thinking that at least one of those lynches had to be scum, but maybe even two of them. Also, this is more of a meta than anything, but I noticed less flirting with Nyn this game. Maybe that's because he did most of it on the mafia QT?

Verdict: probably scum

TommyRod

Why he might be town - He has played a near flawless game as town or scum, and up until now, he has kept calm and logical. He asked the right questions and got a lot more responses from people then they were likely willing to give.

Why he is probably scum - The whole no-emo contract was a bit over the top. I remember thinking, is this some kind of preemptive excuse for his lack of trolling? While I like playing with more logical and less flamboyant Tommy, I couldn't help but wonder, is this for real? Also, Tommy is, by his own admission, one of the best players in the game. So why is he still alive on D4? If I was mafia and saw Tommy as a threat, who has been clear by nearly everyone up to this point, I'd have taken him out by N2 at the latest. Finally, I don't like his insistence on pushing the TG/Mynd thing on N3 long after we both had tried to cool on it. I kept saying "I'm waiting until D4" hoping that the scum took my soft doc claim for cereal. I think the sole purpose for rekindling that fire was to set up D4. Funny thing, I thought TG was doc-fishing. Only a mafia would have suspected that TG was the actual doc and soft claiming. For mafia, it's either him or.....

Verdict: probably scum

Clov

Why he could be town - Nothing really. He's trying to make cases, I guess?

Why he is probably scum - His cases are a big stretch. Its like he begins his casing with a prejudice in mynd and takes every post completely out of context. The dogpile on DT didn't seem to make sense at all. Why didn't he and Tommy wait for DT to at least return to get some info as Darthe advised? For someone who is trying to act methodical and logical, that was a pretty hasty and illogical thing to do. We had plenty of time and he didn't need to hammer. It is as if he got nervous and was afraid that the lynch wouldn't go through if we let him talk. It is as if he knew that Darthe was lying about his mafia read on him. Same goes for Tommy on this, but I don't believe that Tommy is scum with Clov.

Verdict: probably scum, but town if Tommy flips scum

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

So Clov came in leaning town on me and Mynd & NB both wanted to lynch me until it no longer became feasible to do so.

What do you mean it is no longer feasible to do so? You could still be the lynch today, friend. The main reason this is so tough for all of us is that you are assuming you are clear and are not.

As far as wanting others to case Rand, yes. Why are we clearing him? You said it yourself, if he's scum he deserves the win for good play. I agree, but the game isn't over yet and we should consider all options.

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

NB, what's your scumteam then? Clov/Mynd?

Mynd, you should be trying to convince me why Clov is scum.

Clov, you should be trying to convince me why Mynd is scum.

NB, you should be trying to convince me how Clov and Mynd fit together.

I made a case yesterday why I thought he was scum. To add onto that from today, I don't see why that should have changed.

Notably this is lylo. You have to vote with me if you are town so whenever I put a vote down I want town to pile on it. If anyone else puts a vote down they are in essence revealing themselves as mafia today.

I'm with you on this.   I still feel very comfortable with my vote on Tommy at the moment, but I'm sure you know that I can change should something catch my eye. I hope I haven't been giving off mixed signals but that bandwagon on Drunk Tank the other day still bothers me.

Just another point about my earlier reaction test on TG. I don't like how Tommy white knighted my points about TG only to back-track on him right about the time that TG was talking about the doc stuff. An experienced player like Tommy would know when someone is trying to play a trick on the mafia, so I'm sure he picked up on it.

Still, when you really boil down to it, the true proof in mafia is how the votes go down. Am I right?

I don't know where to begin with this. The first two statements make it seem like he's giving away any responsibility for working towards the lynch and instead is going to blindly follow Darthe around. I don't expect anybody to actively push Darthe, but I also don't expect town to roll over and sheep a vote onto somebody they don't think is lockscum.

Second paragraph is a huge misrepresentation of the facts and reeks of trying to come up with a reason to NOT clear Tom. Tom said Mynd's case had some valid points but was a 4/10. I don't see how that could be described as "White Knighting", and a townie SHOULD be willing to change their opinion.

The italics are just weird. It seems like he's trying to softclaim or hint at something here, but with cop claimed and the doc dead, I don't see why he wouldn't just hardclaim if he had something that could clear him.

Rand, if you place your vote on Clov, I have mine on Tommy, and Darthe has his on Not Bob......we have ourselves in a similar situation as we did on D1. Do you understand what I am saying here? The scum need two town votes on one townie in order to successfully hammer. They know this and we know this. You could vote me or Clov, but as long as you/me/darthe spread our votes out, it forces the mafia to make a decision. They are waiting for two votes to land on a player right now.

It wasn't a symp hint. I was trying to let Darthe know that I will change my vote when he signals me to do so. I felt like Darthe was trying to reaction test to see who was going to pile on NotBob, but I also figured that no one still in this game is dumb enough to do that.

I think we need to spread our votes around. The moment any two of us townies vote together on a non-scum, then the mafia will dogpile and its game over.

This might be true if a majority was needed for a lynch, but it's not. Scum just has to work together to make sure a townie (or townies) are the highest vote getters at End of Phase. Somehow I don't feel Mynd has forgotten this.

Tommy was right.....a game full of unreadable players. For the most part....

Townitown Mansion

Myndrunner - Yes, I may be old, but I'm still a townie who can think for himself without the MCP looking over his shoulder. Get off my motherboard you dang kids!

Slightly Town Condos

Nullville Apartments

Drunk Tank - First few posts established himself well, he won't be a vegetable. He seems to be trying and following along but hasn't quite assymilated the culture yet, which isn't a bad thing. Feels like my drunk uncle signing up in my fantasy football league and then mixing it up with my friends during the live draft. "Joe Montana is an American Icon, dammit! *hic* They named a STATE after him! *BURP!*" Like this post right here trying to get the game moving. Good overall grasp of decent mafia play here.

BeefArmi - Another tough read. Townish early posts, but I don't like this sheep-vote of Darthe with TG. The Armi part of the hydra seems like applying the right amount of pressure without coming across as a witchhunter.

Vos - A little more jovial than normal in this game. Makes a point about "sitting back" usually means scum here. The fact that my #1 FOS is calling him LOCKTOWN bothers me. His debate with Rand seems like two townies arguing semantics while wagging FOS at each other. I typically have a town read on Vos and a scum read on Rand regardless of alignment. Good reasoning like this one here.

NotBob - ランドの固体を読むここで.   彼はかなりの変態ファンですHentai 私は見ているよりもっとたくさん冗談を言ってください。 Nyn's Boobs は彼を気が散る. 良い質問です!!! LOL

TommyRod - The contract, to me, seems like a townie who doesn't want emotions (his or others) to distract from scumhunting. Sitting back with popcorn is something Vos should have pounced on. He seems like he's trying to play objectively and not let emotions cloud his judgement. That would be a townie play, but then again, he's letting a lot of us do the scumhunt work for him. Hence: popcorn.

Rand al'Thor - I don't like his initial vote, seemed like he overkilled the explanation and even had to edit it. The fact that it was on me is actually only a small part of it. Tommy adds to my initial FOS here. His explanation to his OMGUS on Vos makes me hate puppies. Agreeing with me normally makes me nervous (because I rarely agree with me unless I'm scum) but this is reinforcing what I did and TG's reaction.

Nynlia - Normal NynLia play so far. Nyn antagonistic and Hally being over-buddying. Nothing stands out as scum or town so far, which means they are probably scum. Not enough to push them in either direction at this point. Like BeefArmi said, we need more.

Slightly Scum Motel

Darthe - This post makes me have the diabetes. Basically, he is saying everyone who posted before him is town except Drunk Tank. His "slightly town" lean on Tommy seems like he wants to say "SCUM" but doesn't want to take on Tommy just yet. He's gone for a while and explains this because life happens, but his return to game post is half-arsed and all over the place. He gets a scum read on NotBob but totally misses the L1 comment as Tommy points out here. Locks Leno as town because....why? and a GFY to me? Darthe slightly scum.

Clov - My only reference to Kronos in this game will be to point out TG going after Kronos (an inactive) so early in the game. This read will be 100% Clov..........um, yeah.....so. *shrugs*   Nyn points out his lack of aggressive gameplay. This isn't a townie Clov.

Scum Salad Projects

TG - I find his reaction to my case (weak or not) incredibly off the charts and that makes him my number one scumbad at the time. Don't let the cute puppy fool you, he starts off with his retort to Lenlo here then promptly votes an inactive in his second post right after it.   Kissing up to Tommy here then hastily deflects to ask Tommy about Vos here.   More kissing up here and here like he's running for TOWNIEST of TOWNIES. Then flails when I case him, and promises that he will brb when my case will be destroyed by the destroyer's hand of destruction. Won't lynch DT because he's new to DM?     Here is his "explanation" when pressed by Nyn. (My first case on TG here)

This = my case being "destroyed"

Lenlo - Between the two, he responded only slightly better than TG to my casing report. It started with his "joke" vote of TG here. The interaction that got me more suspicious started here so read it yourself and lemme know what you think. Seemed like a "HEY YOU" which amounted to a silly gif. VERY suspicious. The extent that the two of them slammed my case, weak or not, was quite an overreaction. It was less explaining and more aimed at discrediting me. This also stood out to me.

Mynd, knowing what we know now, I hate this post.

A lot of your reasoning is shallow or unexplained, like Darthe being scum for trying to placate me (which assumes I'm town, which is funny since I'm not in your town list, nobody is) or Len being scum because he made a joke vote on TG or agreed with TG that your case was bad. You try to FOS Vos for not jumping on me for saying popcorn (?). Your read on Drunk looks like a capricious clear of a non-threatening player. The post you linked to saying DT was getting the game going is nonsense. You use a point Nyn made to call Clov scummy, then call Nyn scum but put her in the null category anyway. You didn't say anything about NB at all, just linked to 3 of his most trollish posts.

???

In that post you said "I typically have a town read on Vos and a scum read on Rand regardless of alignment." You asked me about Rand, what's your interpretation of him? If you usually have a scum read on him, what does that say about him (or you) that you haven't been pushing him in this game? Is he unusually townie to you this game?

I asked you about Rand first, Tommy. What do you feel about him?

Also, you are on D1. A lot has happened since then. This was even pre-TG fisticuffs.

@Tommy - here is a much more updated and relevant casing for you.

All that talk about me and TG yesterday makes a lot more sense now. I thought it would be me instead though, but I guess I'm the one they figured for lynch instead.

First things first,

[v] TommyRod [/v]

I could go Clov instead, but lets take out the ring leader first.

My case as promised.

TownieTown Mansion

Darthe - UNcc'd cop in a basic game. Mafia doesn't need to kill him if they can just roleblock him to kingdom come. His value, besides his scumhunting skills, are that he is a nearly cleared townie.

Mynd - I may be old, but I remember when Vanilla was just vanilla, not this French Vanilla crap...and the MCP was just a calculator!!!

Slightly Town Condos

TG - I was already pulling back on TG before he tried to direct the DOC read. I was hoping that my responses would suggest to the mafia that I was the DOC and that they should kill me instead. I'm sure the mafia figured the same thing that I did. Scum TG would not have engaged me like he did. PR'd TG would though. Then, when Tommy started rekindling the fire between us, I knew we were being set up. I just thought that I was going to be the one dead today not him.

Rand - He's been trying to clear more townies then find scum, a tandem that I thought would work better with my grass beating, but more on that post-game.

Nullville Hotel

Slightly Scum Motel

Xthrax - He's OBVIOUSLY corrupted by the MCP!

Not Bob - I've played only a couple games with him, but he's kinda like Krak. He definitely doesn't seem like someone who is pushing any kind of agenda.

SCUMBAD SALAD

Tommy & Clov - If you read back this last night phase, it reads like two players trying to figure out who would be the easy lynch, but the key to their demise is what went down with Drunk Tank. They both realized that if they hammered DT, they would still be in a position to pull out a win.

Tommy has been a hard read because I like playing with non-troll Tommy, but his no-emo contract was a bit over the top. I was surprised he gave my case assessment against TG a 4/10 instead of a 0/10 because it was totally out of my arse. I was just trying to gauge a reaction from TG.....and I got one that distracted me from them.

Day 2, I was on to Clov, but then I got mixed up in the TG mess again and started believing him to be scumbad.

What I noticed about Tommy and Clov was that they were working in tandem, tossing just enough suspicion at each other to warrant some distancing but still kinda white knighting each other when you strip down their musings. Clov only chose to case two players last night, but they served the same purpose.....isolate the Day 4 lynch to one of two players: NotBob or Me.

Re-read Clov's case on Tommy here. It sounds like someone you hire to politically spin a congressman to sound positive yet real. "Sure, he kinda looks scummy here and there, but wow he must be town because a scum would never say xxxxxx" ITs all fluff and is designed to direct the rest of us off Tommy and onto me and NotBob. He uses the same jargon as Tommy and puts either/or decisions at our feet.

THe Tommy/NotBob exchange is not town/town so one of them has to be scum........then later says Tommy is looking town.

If we lose this game, I'll take partial responsibility for playing a bit more aloof than I should have. I had a hard time getting a good read on people this round, but I also should have stuck to a more logic and less reactionary approach. I figured I was vanilla town and expendable. I didn't expect to make it this far.

I prefer playing with logic and rational Tommy. Too bad it was all a calculated way to keep him from getting lynched early. If you notice though, his questions and prodding have been carefully designed to point us at the wrong players. Drunk Tank, then last night's insistence on a dialog between myself and TG. He had to get it out there or their choice of NK would not have been as big of an impact.

Anyways, there you have it. Lynch Tommy or Clov today. Otherwise, we lynch another townie and lose.

First he immediately counters a question by saying "I asked you first" instead of giving an answer to the question, and he asked me why I'm town on Rand. Mynd, if you're leaning that Rand is one of the mafia here, what's your reasoning? It looks like you're trying to get somebody to write a case for you.

Second, his point about the reads list being outdated is fair, you used an old one. So he reposts one from earlier where you are his top suspects...even though he seemingly is reading you as town now and decided it has to be notbob and one of us based on the vote. If that's the case, why try to correct your outdated list of his by posting a DIFFERENT list that is now outdated? Doesn't it make more sense to just make a new list?

I asked Tommy first and he answers me with why do I have Rand clear. I have a case on Rand but I have a case on everyone (see above). Even Darthe is not 100% off the table, but he is the least likely for me to vote today. I think we should consider Rand as a possible mafia. He arguably has played a more townie game than the rest of us, but still, that doesn't mean he's town.

I did make a new list (see above). I just quickly threw that one up because Tommy was using the one I made on D1. I had made another one much later in the game with different reads.

Tommyrod · July 31, 2014

Mynd, why did you shrug off my discussion of your prior list with a comment like "that was D1, it means nothing" but you use D1 events in your argument against NB or to ask why I'm still alive? That's deflection, hypocrisy and fearmongering respectively. Behavior like that is what has me wondering whether you actually want to solve the game or are just trying to ensure nobody is clear while you wait for someone else to make the big push onto a townie.

TG asks you questions - you dodge them. I ask you questions - you dodge them. Your version of "beating the grass" looks like "fling shit until it sticks" when you use it as a veil to not explain yourself or take hard stances.

Do you understand my concern?

Xthrax · July 31, 2014

Official Vote Count-Day 4

NotBob-(1/6)-Darthe

Not Voting-(5/6)-NotBob, Tommy, RandA lThor, Clov, Mynd

6 Alive, takes 4 to Lynch

Deadline-http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140801T2015&p0=438&msg=End+of+Day+4

Tommyrod · July 31, 2014

Mynd, NB has been taking shots at you but you haven't addressed him. Sup?

Xthrax · July 31, 2014

Approximately 1 day left, guys...

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

Mynd, NB has been taking shots at you but you haven't addressed him. Sup?

He's been taking shots at all of us. He had given up until he saw a chance that I might be lynched today instead of him so I don't really put much stock in anything he says at this point. He's pretty much saying the same thing everyone else has been saying about me and you. I figured I kinda covered most of the answers earlier, but if it works better, I'll address NotBob directly.

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

Mynd, why did you shrug off my discussion of your prior list with a comment like "that was D1, it means nothing" but you use D1 events in your argument against NB or to ask why I'm still alive? That's deflection, hypocrisy and fearmongering respectively. Behavior like that is what has me wondering whether you actually want to solve the game or are just trying to ensure nobody is clear while you wait for someone else to make the big push onto a townie.

TG asks you questions - you dodge them. I ask you questions - you dodge them. Your version of "beating the grass" looks like "fling shit until it sticks" when you use it as a veil to not explain yourself or take hard stances.

Do you understand my concern?

Do you understand also how reaching that was? If you looked objectively at my D1 case, nearly the entire roster was in NULL, which many commented on. At that time, NotBob wasn't doing anything scummy and I was more locked in on making a Japanese character joke more than anything else. It was my D1 case, which has evolved as the game progressed. Rand had me as his #1 town read until now.

I've answered your questions and TG's. When I asked for your current take on Rand, you turned it back on me.

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

Ya know what? Let's just get this over with.

[v] NotBob [/v]

I think we've all made this a lot more complicated than it should have been.

Xthrax · July 31, 2014

Official Vote Count-Day 4

NotBob-(2/6)-Darthe, Mynd

Not Voting-(4/6)-NotBob, Tommy, RandA lThor, Clov

6 Alive, takes 4 to Lynch

Deadline-http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140801T2015&p0=438&msg=End+of+Day+4

Myndrunner · July 31, 2014

The silence is deafening right now.

鲍勃不是我的名字 · July 31, 2014

I think it odd that there have been no other votes on NB. We have three days, I'll consider statements until then. [/unvote]

My restrictions are this for all of you: I am only willing to vote from Notbob, Clov and Mynd. I don't care what you think of anyone else, don't even mention them. Find me your top two in there and sell me on why the other one is town.

I'll be reading and waiting.

Official Vote Count-Day 4

NotBob-(1/6)-Darthe

Not Voting-(5/6)-NotBob, Tommy, RandA lThor, Clov, Mynd

6 Alive, takes 4 to Lynch

Deadline-http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140801T2015&p0=438&msg=End+of+Day+4

@ Mod,

I thought that Darthe's intention was to unvote while he considers statements. Please advise.

鲍勃不是我的名字 · July 31, 2014

See quote above

Darthe · July 31, 2014

[/unvote]

Darthe · July 31, 2014

[unvote]

[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

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