[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

[RandA lThor]

I'm going to go shower now.  Naked.

Count me in.

 

I believe I've already given my town to scum list a few times Tommy, don't have time to find it.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

I'm going to go shower now. Naked.

Count me in.

 

I believe I've already given my town to scum list a few times Tommy, don't have time to find it.

In your last post it seems like you have every single person as a townie except for Clov?

[RandA lThor]

 

 

 

I... what?

 

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

 

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

 

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

 

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently. 

 

The thing is, I really don't know man.  Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before.  I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop.  I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it. 

 

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR.  I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not. 

 

 

Why the style change? Do you think this one is better? I had an easier time clearing you for the other one.

 

What does LLL mean?

 

 

I'm trying to find a balance between the two.  I was having a hard time with logic and reads in this game so I tried shaking things up.  TG was pinging me with his early gameplay (focus on an inactive, then flop between silly and serious) but I went for it.  His reaction furthered me into a mindset that I must have been onto something.

 

My old way sometimes would hurt the town more than help, but it also sometimes lead to some brilliant mafia catching.  I feel much more relaxed as a VT and I can be a bit more aggressive with my plays than if I was roled or mafia. 

 

I'll have more details tomorrow, but here is the thing....I think you're my #2 mafia.  I think you have been playing a spectacular game and have been asking the right questions, putting just enough distance from the other scummies as you could, but I think this whole "im not trolling this time" has been a gambit from the beginning.  It was a very well thought out cover for how you were going to play more low key. 

 

#1 is Clov actually.  He seems to be looking for who he can get a lynch going on, but Nyn's half-arsed deal with him pinged me the most. 

 

#3 is Not Bob, who has been hovering at #2 for a while until my last re-read. 

 

#4 is TG for reasons beaten more than an army of dead horses.

 

#5 is Rand, who is still a scum candidate for reasons to be given tomorrow. 

 

These aren't on a scale of Scum to Town.  These are on a scale of OMG SCUM to Pretty Scummy.

 

Darthe is one who I am beginning to question but still, Occam's Razor says he's the cop. 

 

LLL = Lying Liar who Lies. 

 

So if I'm at the end of that scale, does that mean I'm pretty?

 

Also on a serious note, Darthe is almost completely town.  We're in a basic game, I highly doubt that there's no cop.  For that matter I highly doubt that there's no doc either.

 

K seriously going to stop replying now.  Good bye.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I... what?

 

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

 

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

 

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently.

 

The thing is, I really don't know man. Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before. I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop. I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it.

 

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR. I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not.

Why the style change? Do you think this one is better? I had an easier time clearing you for the other one.

 

What does LLL mean?

I'm trying to find a balance between the two. I was having a hard time with logic and reads in this game so I tried shaking things up. TG was pinging me with his early gameplay (focus on an inactive, then flop between silly and serious) but I went for it. His reaction furthered me into a mindset that I must have been onto something.

 

My old way sometimes would hurt the town more than help, but it also sometimes lead to some brilliant mafia catching. I feel much more relaxed as a VT and I can be a bit more aggressive with my plays than if I was roled or mafia.

 

I'll have more details tomorrow, but here is the thing....I think you're my #2 mafia. I think you have been playing a spectacular game and have been asking the right questions, putting just enough distance from the other scummies as you could, but I think this whole "im not trolling this time" has been a gambit from the beginning. It was a very well thought out cover for how you were going to play more low key.

 

#1 is Clov actually. He seems to be looking for who he can get a lynch going on, but Nyn's half-arsed deal with him pinged me the most.

 

#3 is Not Bob, who has been hovering at #2 for a while until my last re-read.

 

#4 is TG for reasons beaten more than an army of dead horses.

 

#5 is Rand, who is still a scum candidate for reasons to be given tomorrow.

 

These aren't on a scale of Scum to Town. These are on a scale of OMG SCUM to Pretty Scummy.

 

Darthe is one who I am beginning to question but still, Occam's Razor says he's the cop.

 

LLL = Lying Liar who Lies.

You're reading me as scum because I made a conscious effort to avoid the same behaviors that got me lynched in other games? That should be a null tell. But how do you have me as scummier than NB? That's MIND BOGGLING.

[Myndrunner]

 

 

 

 

I... what?

 

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

 

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

 

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently.

 

The thing is, I really don't know man. Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before. I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop. I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it.

 

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR. I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not.

Why the style change? Do you think this one is better? I had an easier time clearing you for the other one.

 

What does LLL mean?

I'm trying to find a balance between the two. I was having a hard time with logic and reads in this game so I tried shaking things up. TG was pinging me with his early gameplay (focus on an inactive, then flop between silly and serious) but I went for it. His reaction furthered me into a mindset that I must have been onto something.

 

My old way sometimes would hurt the town more than help, but it also sometimes lead to some brilliant mafia catching. I feel much more relaxed as a VT and I can be a bit more aggressive with my plays than if I was roled or mafia.

 

I'll have more details tomorrow, but here is the thing....I think you're my #2 mafia. I think you have been playing a spectacular game and have been asking the right questions, putting just enough distance from the other scummies as you could, but I think this whole "im not trolling this time" has been a gambit from the beginning. It was a very well thought out cover for how you were going to play more low key.

 

#1 is Clov actually. He seems to be looking for who he can get a lynch going on, but Nyn's half-arsed deal with him pinged me the most.

 

#3 is Not Bob, who has been hovering at #2 for a while until my last re-read.

 

#4 is TG for reasons beaten more than an army of dead horses.

 

#5 is Rand, who is still a scum candidate for reasons to be given tomorrow.

 

These aren't on a scale of Scum to Town. These are on a scale of OMG SCUM to Pretty Scummy.

 

Darthe is one who I am beginning to question but still, Occam's Razor says he's the cop.

 

LLL = Lying Liar who Lies.

You're reading me as scum because I made a conscious effort to avoid the same behaviors that got me lynched in other games? That should be a null tell. But how do you have me as scummier than NB? That's MIND BOGGLING.

 

 

Yeah I do.  I'll explain in more detail on D4, but yeah. 

[RandA lThor]

Sigh... you're making it really hard for me not to post.  Tommy read my last post about NotBob, its not mind boggling, you're just looking at all the wrong scum tells.

 

And yes I'm trying to get more townreads than mafreads so I can use PoE to get mafia so I won't be complaining the entire time about how many scumtells I have found on other people.

[Clovdyx]

Started re-reading Tommy.

 

 

 

 

Drunk's post was the scummiest thing in this thread so far. It feels completely out of the otherwise jovial flow of this thread. You know how DM games usually start with fun and banter and then slowly become serious? It felt like Drunk couldn't get his footing in that environment, and I think it's because he's scum.

 

Kind of a weird rationality given that Drunk was playing his first game here but this was page three so I don't expect incredibly concrete cases at that stage.  Doesn't seem overly opportunistic or stretched.

 

 

 

Ill play to that then and I want to see how BFG fares. Tone says she is faking her intro and she tends to suck as scum so ill know by EoD.

What is it you don't like about BFG?

 

 

 

 

Vos/nyn/csarmi/rand are all rand to be town

Slight villa lean on tommy

[V] bfg

or mayyyyybe DT for today.

Peeps are too quiet itt

 

 
What gives you a slight villa lean on Tommy?

I'm interested in this too.

 

 

Pretty good early questions to get the discussion going.  Tom looking good early D1.

 

 

Drunk is confusing as hell. I feel like he is, objectively, the wolfiest player in the thread so far. But when pushed, he refuses to change tact. My experience says that's more likely to come from a villager or someone with a social disorder, but having never played with him before, I'm left guessing.

Drunk, what is it you think you're providing to the thread right now? You're fronting this air of mystery, but instead of coming off as if you're secretly making good points and keeping them to yourself (Clov: think Walt), you just sound like you have no ideas and no concept of what to say.

For someone who has played mafia before and should know that the means to town's ends is transparency and curiosity, your brand of obfuscation is scummy.

 

This came around the time that Drunk was listing himself in his town reads and argued that everybody started as a liar and had to proven themselves town.   I agree with Tom's final point that actually saying something is how town wins, so I like where he is coming from with this post.  Tom's capable of making this kind of post as mafia to try to seem genuine, but I don't think he would be prodding a viable mislynch candidate to make themselves seem more townie.

 

Rand, I was about to get on your ass for ignoring my vote and then calling me a townie. If you nest responses in spoilers please call out the person you're talking to, I didn't see it before.

As for what you said about not fencesitting but just not being sure -- fair enough. I can accept that answer.

 

This was partially in response to Rand's post here, which includes Rand reply to Tommy's accusations against defending Drunk IRT whether it was more pro-town/pro-mafia of DT to list himself as a townread.  I disagreed with Rand that town was more likely to name themselves, so I saw where Tom was coming from, but I think Tom is being reasonable here towards Rand.  Didn't tunnel on him and was willing to step back when Rand made a townish post.

 

 

 

Actually you voted me only after I unvoted you...so yeah, had you as scum before you even thought of me...but spin away scum..

Ah, my mistake.

(Are you joking? I can't tell.)

 

 

 

 

Do what you need to do...FTR...you've sounded like scum this entire day...was actually glad you came out of the woodwork.
 
Here, have another vote...it obviously bothers you.
 
Unvote, Vote Tommy

Do you think it's unusual to expect you to share your thoughts and play the game?

We could start with why you think I've "sounded like scum this entire day."

 

 

Early exchange between Notbob and Tom.  NB already FoS'ed Tom prior to this, but this doesn't look like a W/W interaction.  Bold doesn't sound like a bus comment to me.  Mafia tends to distance themselves without actually pressuring teammates, so Tom drawing attention to NB not giving a whole lot looks really good for Tom if NB flips mafia.

 

 

 

 

 

?

Red: I never voted for ya. I've had you as possible scum for what I read as feigned emotion, but I haven't gone after it yet because:

A) You're a pretty sharp guy and would be an asset to town if you are town
B) I haven't yet utilized the emotional reading method I picked up from my friend and was hoping to get a flip or two to see how it works for me before condemning someone for it.

Blue: The way my last couple games have gone here, I made an active decision to be more level headed and analytical in my approach, hence my non-emotional pact. So while you are probably right I sound arbiter-y, it's decidedly not scummy -> I'm actively encouraging people to talk and give reads. You know, the same thing you did when you demanded people act serious?

Are you scum? This seems like it came out of nowhere, and the timing is interesting given the current discussion with NotBob.

You're correct, you weren't voting me, my mistake.

As for calling me sharp, that just puts me more on guard. The comment about how you're engaging people to force specific outcomes (arbiter/become the buddy-ee) comes from the below quote:

If you're town and want me to read you as such, attacking me for correctly identifying odd behavior from you isn't the way to go about it.

As for the blue, you do typically engage people by asking them specifically to chat with you (arbiter style). I don't often see you do the above.

As for NB, I'm trying to figure out if you're scumbuddies doing a little D1 distancing or not. I've played with NB before and have found him less than helpful. Only played a couple games though so can't give more meta than that.

 

I don't see how A->B in your mind. Your scumread on me hinges on one sentence from one post that emphasizes my lack of interest in dicking around, and it's the opposite of buddying, it's me telling you quite calmly to piss off for misrepping me.

And not to toot my own horn too much, but I doubt you catch me as scum on D1.

So you've misrepped me twice now -- first when you said I piggybacked on Mynd despite having my own, separate reasons for suspecting you -- and second when you said I'm buddying you but in the very post you just quoted I'm quite clearly telling you to shape up.

 

 

 

 

I don't see how A->B in your mind. Your scumread on me hinges on one sentence from one post that emphasizes my lack of interest in dicking around, and it's the opposite of buddying, it's me telling you quite calmly to piss off for misrepping me.

And not to toot my own horn too much, but I doubt you catch me as scum on D1.

So you've misrepped me twice now -- first when you said I piggybacked on Mynd despite having my own, separate reasons for suspecting you -- and second when you said I'm buddying you but in the very post you just quoted I'm quite clearly telling you to shape up.

 
I was wrong about you voting me.  Agreed. 
 
You're misrepping me in the buddying thing.  I said you are setting yourself up as "buddy-ee".  You telling me to "shape-up" is a way to set yourself up as an authority type figure for me to buddy up to.  It lays the groundwork for it. 
 
As for catching you D1, I just did, so write it down in your notebook and remember it next time you hear a bike horn.

 

No. I might have round-about caught you, though!

The only people calling me an obvious wolf in this game are you and NotBob, and who do I happen to be voting for and arguing with prior to this?

The way you suddenly switched gears to attack me full-stop right at that moment makes it difficult for me to buy this as a genuine attempt at scumhunting.

Timing aside, your argument is just wrong. Half of it was flat out false (voting for you), the rest is you spinning my adjusted meta to be wolfy when it isn't.

 

 

 

 

 

The game I just linked is actually pretty clearing for me here. Look here toward the end and how I approach the other players: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=44076814&postcount=2839

Same wolfy arbiting!

 
Didn't you just say you adjusted your meta?  Now you're saying that your meta is actually the same?

 

Good catch! Except it's been adjusting over the past couple days, maybe a week. If you're serious about discerning my alignment, I encourage you to look through that game. You'll find the same villaTom.

If you want to ignore how villagery I am right now and keep pushing me, I'll push back. And maybe even rope some people into joining me!

 

 

Tom looking a little worse with these three.  I don't know if he was just annoyed that TG actually put forth the effort to case him to start the game or what, but TG came out looking far better from this back and forth.  Bold reads like Tom trying to pressure TG into throwing his read away ("Nah man, you're not gonna catch me if I'm scum").  I guess it's easier than disproving TG's argument, but that doesn't mean it's good.  Second post seems like a small knee jerk post.  Third is just lolsy bad.  Calling yourself villagery and threatening to push based solely on whether you get pressured - and then trying to get back up - is anything but villagery.

 

Tom voted TG a day later for this argument, so at least he was consistent there.  And he's tunneled TG a lot less than Mynd since this.  Not sure where he changed his mind on TG yet (only through half of Tom's posts) but I like his flexibility.

 

 

 

[Tommyrod]

Interested in seeing where this goes.

 

"I dunno yet, lol" isn't really a compelling take on me this far.

 

(No offense, you know I love you despite how you are.)

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

 

Vote Clov

Your lack of motivation in this game troubles me. I know you love being town, especially if you score a PR. I also know you hate rolling scum. Pouty Clov is a scummy Clov. *waggles finger*

This is probably bad. I found myself nodding along to his statements earlier in the game. Same on-point vibe as another recent town game of his.

Plus TG wants to lynch him.

 

 

 

 

 

Vote Clov

Your lack of motivation in this game troubles me. I know you love being town, especially if you score a PR. I also know you hate rolling scum. Pouty Clov is a scummy Clov. *waggles finger*

This is probably bad. I found myself nodding along to his statements earlier in the game. Same on-point vibe as another recent town game of his.

Plus TG wants to lynch him.

I've seen Clov make excellent points as scum before.


Ah TG wants to lynch him! So under your criteria anyone that TG is after is town by default?

For sure. He was effective like that in Twilight mafia. He was one of the more consensus clear players until must lynch. It's part of why I don't trust him in general. But we've had two really good collaborative town/town games where I felt good about him right away despite always tinfoiling a little bit on him. He had the same air to him early on. If his posting has dropped off hard I haven't noticed and that could be an actual scum tell for him. But he's a strong player and not someone I advocate lynching on D1. (Tried once; oops.)

And I get that you're mocking me but yes, TG pushing two of the strongest players in the game on D1 has me concerned. If he's scum it's a good tactic because he'll be able to "park" his vote on me for a while as it's really hard to get me lynched, so he avoids spewing other players for as long as I'm alive and he can keep harassing me... and if people get paranoid and I get lynched, even better! I call this the Tom Park on POG, wolves do it to me there quite a bit, especially in larger games.

I saw he was still arguing against me with hypocritical reasoning (calling MY argument a misstep is pure fabrication when HIS argument is the sort of spin I expect of someone like Red). Will respond in full when I can get to a comp.

I would love your thoughts on him and his "argument."

And that's an open invitation to everyone, few people have really pressed either of us yet. I was surprised to see NB didn't get into the thick of it at all.

Salami, THAT is a guy in commentary mode.

 

 

 

Not wanting to lynch with his top scum suspect.  TG as the top suspect is dumb to me, but he's playing it correctly by staying off.  The fact Nyn was scum makes this look really good.

 

 

 

K since my last post.

Still think Tommy is town, but less than before due to some of the points TG made.

However, realized that both TG's and Tommy's scumminess might be exaggerated by large post counts. At some point, town will make scummy posts, and if town posts a lot, its more likely to think they're scum.

Lenlo is still a better read cause I have seen him be scummy and he hasn't posted a ginormous amount.

Most of the Clov tells are all based on meta, so still have very little read on him.

Which points did TG make that you liked? Almost everything he's said is scummy about me applies to him just as much if not more -- and THAT style of hypocritical projection argumentation is scummy. (It's also what NB is doing. You know, that guy he said I was scum with and then forgot about.)

 

 

 

I know it applies to him too, that's why he's one of my top scum reads lol.

Don't Darthe me, bro. Just tell me.

 

 

I like the actual question to Rand about TG, though the follow up statement seems unnecessary.  What I said earlier about Town!Mynd should be actually considering TG's response to his case applies to Tom here - if he actually wants to work on a solve and figure out TG's alignment, there's no need to discredit him while trying to gain opinions.

 

 

TG,

I went back to see what your scum game was like when we were scumbros in Basel's Star Wars game.

And here's what I found:

Lots and lots of one-liners, a reactive rather than proactive playstyle, and large lapses in activity. You had 53 posts in that game, with 40+ of them being one or two sentences. Here are some of your bulkier quotes (there's not much):

 

 

TG the picture of your son is so cute!

Thanks!

Claimed with no heat in a game where there are no fakeclaims and he's not csarmi

He roleclaimed cop last game with like one vote on him as scum

Monk's outed

kill him

How on earth would you know whether or not there are fakeclaims unless you're scum? Am I misunderstanding here?

by talk of csarmi it is very, very, very likely scum have some character claims or else we'd all just massclaim and GAME OVAR

And now you're saying there are fakeclaims? Explain the sudden backtracking.

Good evening everyone, I am Krak.



Vote Tommy as I find him a despicable character.

Awesome OP.

 

 

I'll take it on context

I didn't notice at the time as I was too busy IRL most of the weekend and was more focused on the Nol debate. I'll go back and look.

 

 

*continues to eat popcorn*

 

Checking in. Game isn't even half a day old and already almost 10 pages? This is gonna be fun :-)

Only two things worth commenting on. CS's play is crap, but I'm leaning town because I've seen it from him before. The spam is over the top tho.

Has Tommy played here before? Because he and Des are tops on my list for scum. I agree with Nol that posting spammity spam and lurking are anti-town. Tommy and Des both seem to be purposely misunderstanding what Nol is saying and painting it as a black or white type thing. Des at least shouldn't be purposely misunderstanding this as he is a DM vet.

Just wanna point out what still remains the scummiest OP in the game as well as one of the scummiest posts.

Anyways, italics is a prime example of what I was talking about scum would likely do- either distance or stay away from the Nolder train. TG hardcore defends Nolder and fos's me and Tom, saying we're deliberately misunderstanding Nolder. Could easily see scum!TG deciding to do this to try and later use a Nolder flip against us.

If Nol is being replaced then a Nol lynch is out of question. Whoever replaces Nol will have to speak up for themselves.

As for my reads, I still don't like where Des has come out. Monk looks bad after coming in, reading the thread and being able to make the "'Sup" joke but then saying he hadn't read enough to comment. And I stand by my statement that CS was flooding the thread with crap but that doesn't make him scum. I have a town read on him.

After Nol asks for a replacement, TG comes in and says a Nol lynch is out of the question and that his replacement will have to speak for themselves... looks to me like a scummie trying to save a lynch for later (using the early Nol stuff and replacing out to implicate his replacement at some future day)

We can lynch whoever replacing in for Nol, when that happens. Until then, at least from my experience, the Mod will remove all Nol votes and that slot basically doesn't exist until someone fills it.

If Nol is mafia then I'd say Tina is teammate especially given how she mostly ignored everything about Nol which has comprised most of the game. I'd lynch at least one of those two for info.

Bold: TG links Nolder to Tina here, saying if he flipped mafia she'd be his teammate, thereby potentially setting her up to look better in his eyes with a Nol town flip.

Underlined: Lynching "for info" eh? Scum will often push lynches as "info" lynches early on, to try and be on a train while not looking too committed to it.

At that point, there was a bit of firing the brush in making it more black and white than it is. Spammy posting to the point of obscuring the thread and lurking to give no info are both anti-town IMO. I think Nol is scummy more for his gameplay since (see below) and the Tina/Kronos/Nol interactions than I do for scumhunting in spammers and lurkers.

Then again, I'm still pissed that I got lynched D1 last game for just posting a count of low posters to get them to post more and saying that lurking doesn't help town.

Main thing I don't like about this post is the last little bit- TG brings up what he did last game (when he was lynched town) in a possible attempt to make himself look townie this game.

MOD QUESTION

Nol has quit and therefore all votes on Nol are reset, correct?

TG possibly playing the "helpful townie" angle

 

Firing the brush to catch slips is one thing. Purposely taking things out of context, purposely misinterpreting, and purposely pushing people with trumped up cases for the sole purpose of frustrating them is another. I've never really agreed with your method of scumhunting because your "cases" do more to frustrate than anything else. Scum, because they are already acting, will have a more reasonable reaction to your purposeful frustration tactics whereas town will get more angry and upset since that is a more honest and natural reaction. In the end it muddies the water and doesn't help catch scum. Case in point? Nolder. I thought that you were purposely taking it too far and purposely misunderstanding him and that, to me, is either scummy or not good town scumhunting play. So, that is why I said I didn't like it and I still don't. His continued play after that gave me a scum lean on him, but the early on stuff by you and Tommy was trumped up and gave me a scum lean on you two for pushing it.

What bothers me most about your whole post is this. You are seeding a reaction. I said early on that you were pushing a trumped up case. You yourself admit that you do this often. Well, I think it's scumtastic and said so. Your response is to say that I'm laying the groundwork for a future push, thereby trying to future-proof yourself against any scumhunting I do on you throughout the rest of the game. Then you go through and "analyze" each post with that conclusion in mind, making each post I've written conform to that already reached conclusion. Moreso, it colors how everyone else is going to read our interactions. You consistently do stuff like this when you're scum, trying to future-proof yourself against any push on you by discrediting anyone in thread who is suspicious of you.

 

 

Good books and well worth reading. Just skip books 7,8,9, lol

I thought Monk to start the day, then he claimed Han. I have scum leans on Des, Tina, Cory, Kronos and maybe SP. Town on Krak, Monk, AJ, CS. Null on you, Turin, GE, Pral.

 

 

I don't think TG really understands me

I guess not.

How can you be null on me

HOW

I think there is scum in the #alliance crew and I have both town and anti-town pings on you. I don't like how you and Despo seemed to misinterpret Nol's posts right off the bat. You've been actively scumhunting and very pro-town. So null. If I was forced to pick one way or another I'd say town lean based on the fact that your posts look genuine and you look more concerned with scumhunting than keeping yourself clean.

 

 

I'm not sure how you can tell me I'm actively scumhunting and yet I'm null, then tell me Despot and I were just "misinterpreting" Nolder's posts. Did another seven people also misinterpret it? Or do you think they're all scum? Look at the EOD1 votes:


Quoting you: "I have scum leans on Des, Tina, Cory, Kronos and maybe SP. Town on Krak, Monk, AJ, CS. Null on you, Turin, GE, Pral. "

That means you think SP, AJ, Salami, Darthe and possibly Golden all "misinterpreted" Nolder as well since you think they're town or null, right?

You and Des purposely pushed it with Nold by misinterpreting his words as black or white at the outset. That is what I didn't like.

Then, as the situation progressed, Nol melted down and looked scummy. As it continued to progress I thought Nol looked scummy throughout the next few RL days and X's defense didn't help. A lot happened between that initial interaction, which I didn't like, to a couple days later when Nol/X got lynched.

 

From an objective standpoint what I see here are vague leanings, a reticence to speak before spoken to, and a general lack of that sharpness I associate with your town game. So your current postcount and thread awareness and aggression points to you being town unless you've enhanced your scum game considerably in the past half year.

And for the record I DO think you're a good player and don't look down on you.

But you need to understand -- I've been adjusting my style SPECIFICALLY to be more objective and avoid a repeat of the debacle that occurred in Blackhoof's game where I was kicking and screaming and ended up getting killed while appealing to the players I was correctly clearing as they lynched me D1 anyway.

So here's the last I'm going to say about it: what you see as me over-inflating my towniness isn't an attempt to clear myself, it's my tendency to break the fourth wall and speak very matter-of-fact about my meta and the going-ons of games. I got lynched for this in Blackhoof's game as well. What you view as manipulation or intimidation is my exasperation for being pushed D1 in a game immediately after I specifically change my play to avoid that situation. I hate being pushed D1, it feels like a personal dig at me, and I tend to get paranoid and assume players pushing me D1 are scum because "how could he suspect ME?" It's difficult for me to believe that *I* am the scummiest player in the thread to you, or to anyone. It's so difficult for me to believe that my gut reaction to seeing someone typically level headed like you espousing it is "he's full of crap." That's doubly true for arguments like this where it feels like you're taking MY arguments against you and pushing them against me and hoping nobody notices. It's a bit of an ego thing, and I'll try to be more mindful of it going forward.

So I'm going to move on; I think discussing the other players, particularly those who have been happy to let this probable town/town argument brew without jumping into the thread to deflect the energy, is the +EV play.

NotBob -- you lumped me together with him for reasons I still don't understand, but you can't ignore how bad his "case" on me has been. I imagine him like Dick Dastardly from the Wacky Racers, twirling his waxed mustache as he makes posts like "lol...ur scum...u know it and i know it now." He completely ignored me backhanding him and has completely ignored you and me going at it other than to egg on Tommy hate with flaccid "nice one!" commentary.

Darthe -- since we started fighting he's gone into joking summary mode and not provided a smidge of reasoning that I can find, and his clearance of me was pretty poor. I don't expect a lot from Darthe, but I expect more than this. I have no idea what he meant by Salami fishing for dirt to throw around or whatever, Salami was just being matter-of-fact. Clov pointed out how he said he'd be reading the heads separately, but he seems to be ignoring BFG.

Drunk -- he's about as subdued as is possible, and in a game that's been fairly active and fraught with bickering, that's bad. Can you remember his stances in this game? His only vote so far is a classic "talk about one player, vote for another" scum post.

And I know you're currently ಠ_ಠing at Mynd; I recognize that his failure to update any of his reads since about 2 days ago is odd considering he's been around since then, and that his acting like I was seconding his case on you when I had different reasons for being skeptical of you is also unusual, but I like that he's unwilling to clear anyone and I can see why he's been on your case -> I saw the same lolhorribad reaction you had to his initial casing of you that he saw.

While I wrote this it's dawning on me I have almost zero conception of where Len or Rand currently stand (though based purely on the threadflow perspective, gun to my head, Rand is town). I need to go back and do a clean sweep of the thread.

 

 

This is probably Tom's best post in the thread I've seen so far and tells a lot about his alignment IMO (unless him and TG are both mafia, in which case I quit).  It doesn't make a whole lot sense for scum!Tom to go back and make a meta assessment of TG in this game that discredits all of the work he put into pushing TG to this point.  Unless he's waving the white flag because he just doesn't care anymore, the bolded is something mafia wouldn't say.  He's essentially removing TG from his pool of mislynches.

 

 

 

[Darthe]

IMO if TG, Rand, or Tom are scum they've played well enough to warrant the win and can keep the damn thing.  This game should be locked between those three and myself and the only potential reason to teeter on any of them is the NK selections and that blind hammer.

[Clovdyx]

IMO if TG, Rand, or Tom are scum they've played well enough to warrant the win and can keep the damn thing.  This game should be locked between those three and myself and the only potential reason to teeter on any of them is the NK selections and that blind hammer.

 

You claiming scum?

[Clovdyx]

Post 1586 was a joke, since somebody will try to spin it that I'm serious and trying to advocate a lynch on the cop.

[Clovdyx]

 

I... what?

 

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

 

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

 

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

 

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently. 

 

The thing is, I really don't know man.  Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before.  I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop.  I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it. 

 

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR.  I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not. 

 

 

This makes me think you don't care.  We're presumably a nightkill from LYLO, and you're seemingly completely open to lynching anybody.  Questioning Darthe at this point doesn't make sense.

[Myndrunner]

 

 

I... what?

 

So you presented a case just for reactions, got a reaction, and decided to ignore the rebuttal to the case because you got the reaction you wanted and that's all you needed, the actual logic or details don't matter?

 

I don't even know you that well and can safely say that doesn't sound like your style.

 

In the last game we were v/v you followed logic trails and left updated reads lists fairly regularly. Here you're epousing an emotive style and have difficulty updating your reads. Sup wit dat?

 

Actually, its closer to my old style than how I've been playing here recently. 

 

The thing is, I really don't know man.  Everyone seems scummy, as I've said before.  I've even been considering Darthe as a LLL or somehow corrupted, but he's still an uncc'd cop.  I don't think there is a vig because we haven't seen multiple kills....unless the vig is a one shot deal and has been holding it. 

 

TG seemed scummy and his rebuttal was a bunch of TLDR.  I got a reaction out of him that lead me to believe he was scummy, but again, you both keep acting like he's still my #1 scum read...he's not. 

 

 

This makes me think you don't care.  We're presumably a nightkill from LYLO, and you're seemingly completely open to lynching anybody.  Questioning Darthe at this point doesn't make sense.

 

 

Its not that at all.  I DO care.  I bring up the questioning Darthe simply because even that is a possibility, but it's not as likely as the most basic play.  Occam's Razor suggests that Darthe, the uncc'd cop in a basic game, is telling the truth. 

[Clovdyx]

 

Its not that at all.  I DO care.  I bring up the questioning Darthe simply because even that is a possibility, but it's not as likely as the most basic play.  Occam's Razor suggests that Darthe, the uncc'd cop in a basic game, is telling the truth. 

 

 

I'm more concerned that it doesn't seem like you really have any inclination of which way you want to go.  Based on your reads list, it seems like you'd be down to lynch any of the five of us tomorrow.  I can understand if you have a few issues that prevent you from going absolutely 100% LAWKCLEIR on a couple guys, but I don't see how you don't have one or two as "not really that scummy".

[Myndrunner]

 

 

Its not that at all.  I DO care.  I bring up the questioning Darthe simply because even that is a possibility, but it's not as likely as the most basic play.  Occam's Razor suggests that Darthe, the uncc'd cop in a basic game, is telling the truth. 

 

 

I'm more concerned that it doesn't seem like you really have any inclination of which way you want to go.  Based on your reads list, it seems like you'd be down to lynch any of the five of us tomorrow.  I can understand if you have a few issues that prevent you from going absolutely 100% LAWKCLEIR on a couple guys, but I don't see how you don't have one or two as "not really that scummy".

 

 

Its more of a scale of TOTALLY SCUMMY to pretty dang scummy.  I have a lynch preference for tomorrow but again, some things depend on the Night 3 flip. 

[Xthrax]

Night has ended. I'll be posting the scene soon, just got back from classes

[Xthrax]

Both Alan and Lora had died trying to help him. Flynn was quite upset but he knew that the only way was to find evidence on Dillinger. He knew that Dillinger had plagiarized his work and caused the Mainframe to crash. But he had no evidence.

 

But suddenly, a lot of information appeared on screen. It seems his hacking was successful. Next moment, he felt a hard mass against the base of his head.

 

"Don't turn around"

 

"Dillinger", Flynn said. "So you found evidence to incriminate me. Too bad you can't use it".

 

A sudden gunshot rang out. Flynn collapsed on the floor.

 

TG, Kevin Flynn, Town Doc was Killed. 

[Xthrax]

Official Vote Count-Day 4

 

Not Voting-(6/6)-Darthe, NotBob, Tommy, RandA lThor, Clov, Mynd

 

6 Alive, takes 4 to Lynch

 

Deadline-http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140801T2015&p0=438&msg=End+of+Day+4

[RandA lThor]

Damn, I tried to soft doc by pretending I had slipped on my message to X saying that I was going to submit an NA.  Did anyone else soft?

 

Darthe, did you get roleblocked again?  Or was it a 1-shot and did you get a read?

 

I don't like how Tommy was defending TG somewhat last night, makes him look better now that TG flipped town.

 

Don't remember NotBob's read on TG, and I think Clov saw him as town.

 

I think Mynd comes out looking the most town from here.  Would he have killed TG, but still kept on casing him somewhat and arguing that he looked scummy if he was going to die and flip town?

[Myndrunner]

All that talk about me and TG yesterday makes a lot more sense now.  I thought it would be me instead though, but I guess I'm the one they figured for lynch instead. 

 

First things first,

 

[v] TommyRod [/v]

 

I could go Clov instead, but lets take out the ring leader first.

 

My case as promised. 

 

TownieTown Mansion

 

 

 

Darthe - UNcc'd cop in a basic game.  Mafia doesn't need to kill him if they can just roleblock him to kingdom come.  His value, besides his scumhunting skills, are that he is a nearly cleared townie.

 

Mynd - I may be old, but I remember when Vanilla was just vanilla, not this French Vanilla crap...and the MCP was just a calculator!!!

 

 

 

 

Slightly Town Condos

 

 

 

 

TG - I was already pulling back on TG before he tried to direct the DOC read.  I was hoping that my responses would suggest to the mafia that I was the DOC and that they should kill me instead.  I'm sure the mafia figured the same thing that I did.  Scum TG would not have engaged me like he did.  PR'd TG would though.  Then, when Tommy started rekindling the fire between us, I knew we were being set up.  I just thought that I was going to be the one dead today not him.  

 

Rand - He's been trying to clear more townies then find scum, a tandem that I thought would work better with my grass beating, but more on that post-game. 

 

 

 

 

Nullville Hotel

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slightly Scum Motel

 

 

 

Xthrax - He's OBVIOUSLY corrupted by the MCP!

 

Not Bob - I've played only a couple games with him, but he's kinda like Krak.  He definitely doesn't seem like someone who is pushing any kind of agenda.

 

 

 

 

SCUMBAD SALAD

 

 

 Tommy & Clov - If you read back this last night phase, it reads like two players trying to figure out who would be the easy lynch, but the key to their demise is what went down with Drunk Tank.  They both realized that if they hammered DT, they would still be in a position to pull out a win.  

 

Tommy has been a hard read because I like playing with non-troll Tommy, but his no-emo contract was a bit over the top.  I was surprised he gave my case assessment against TG a 4/10 instead of a 0/10 because it was totally out of my arse.  I was just trying to gauge a reaction from TG.....and I got one that distracted me from them. 

 

Day 2, I was on to Clov, but then I got mixed up in the TG mess again and started believing him to be scumbad. 

 

What I noticed about Tommy and Clov was that they were working in tandem, tossing just enough suspicion at each other to warrant some distancing but still kinda white knighting each other when you strip down their musings.  Clov only chose to case two players last night, but they served the same purpose.....isolate the Day 4 lynch to one of two players:  NotBob or Me. 

 

Re-read Clov's case on Tommy here.  It sounds like someone you hire to politically spin a congressman to sound positive yet real.  "Sure, he kinda looks scummy here and there, but wow he must be town because a scum would never say xxxxxx"  ITs all fluff and is designed to direct the rest of us off Tommy and onto me and NotBob.  He uses the same jargon as Tommy and puts either/or decisions at our feet. 

 

THe Tommy/NotBob exchange is not town/town so one of them has to be scum........then later says Tommy is looking town. 

 

 

 

 

If we lose this game, I'll take partial responsibility for playing a bit more aloof than I should have.  I had a hard time getting a good read on people this round, but I also should have stuck to a more logic and less reactionary approach.  I figured I was vanilla town and expendable.  I didn't expect to make it this far. 

 

 I prefer playing with logic and rational Tommy.  Too bad it was all a calculated way to keep him from getting lynched early.  If you notice though, his questions and prodding have been carefully designed to point us at the wrong players.  Drunk Tank, then last night's insistence on a dialog between myself and TG.  He had to get it out there or their choice of NK would not have been as big of an impact.

 

Anyways, there you have it.  Lynch Tommy or Clov today.  Otherwise, we lynch another townie and lose. 

[Myndrunner]

Dang, I forgot to hot-link Clov's "case" on Tommy.  Here it is.

 

Of course, it's only a few posts back but still...

[Myndrunner]

Damn, I tried to soft doc by pretending I had slipped on my message to X saying that I was going to submit an NA.  Did anyone else soft?

 

Darthe, did you get roleblocked again?  Or was it a 1-shot and did you get a read?

 

I don't like how Tommy was defending TG somewhat last night, makes him look better now that TG flipped town.

 

Don't remember NotBob's read on TG, and I think Clov saw him as town.

 

I think Mynd comes out looking the most town from here.  Would he have killed TG, but still kept on casing him somewhat and arguing that he looked scummy if he was going to die and flip town?

 

I tried to soft doc too when TG was directing the doc last night.  I think TG should have kept quiet about that altogether. 

 

Re-reading Clov's case on tommy makes me have the diabetes.

[Tommyrod]

I don't advocate a lynch on Tommy.

 

I dropped a bunch of soft doc hints like saying I don't like how Rand was trying to direct where I[ protect, talking like I would be alive tomorrow, telling TG one of him or I would die last night, saying I was the most clear by spew and it didn't matter if nobody else saw it, etc.

 

Suggest we take the Verb approach to endgame and list our top two suspects.

 

Mynd: Tommy and Clov

Tommy: NB and Clov

 

And so on.

 

Rand, I think you're flat out wrong about NB being town. You all saw how he and Clov synced up while arguing against me the other day. Yesterday I pointed out how NB would respond to Clov but not to me. I noticed how the emotion between them was feigned -- Clov too angry, NB too butthurt. I offered him repeat opportunities to defend himself and case others and he refused each time, instead trolling me. He's called me scum since D1 and never once wavered except for when I pressure him, at which point he uses AtE to convince me to read him as town. I tell him to prove himself by playing, he refuses or disappears, and calls me lolobv scum next time he shows up again. So he's scum, period.

 

Clov has been a mixed bag, and that's the main problem. He lacks a general sense of cohesion or direction. I don't expect him to be top poster, but I do expect him to not be bottom poster. When he's had "bite" it's been over-wrought, like when he attacked me the instant I can't back from my weekend trip or when he snipped at NB yesterday. His cases, like on Mynd or on me, have been more about showing work rather than doing work, if you know what I mean. My primary reservations with declaring him lock scum have been my general difficulty reading him as a player after that time I cased him and lynched him D1 for exhibiting his scumtells and he flipped town, and my high expectation for his well polished scum game. As scum he plays the field and sets himself up beautifully for endgame, twilight mafia comes to mind. So if he's scum, I think his wishy-washy incomplete case on me last night was an attempt to link to me again. If you look back through the game he's treated me with this "hmm, could go either way" vibe where he's never fully pushing or defending me. If that's the case, I have to give him props for playing off my reluctance to misread him again.

 

Mynd is third most likely to me by POE, but I can't help but notice how convenient this F6 is. Mynd announced that I'm his #1 or #2 suspect last night, knocking NB down a peg, Clov should be scum with NB, and Rand has been saying NB is town for a while... meaning the only player who really wants to lynch NB today is me, followed by maybe Darthe, who would already be dead if not for inherent doc WIFOM. This F6 has been selected to prevent NB from getting lynched today, and I hope you guys see it in time.

[RandA lThor]

I'd like to hear NotBob's, Darthe's and Clov's input before I start deciding on who I want to vote and why.