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August Discussion - Dress Codes


Davrick

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I know this is late...very late.  I'm afraid RL has gotten a busy for me and I do apologize for that.  Anyways onto our discussion!  This month we are talking about Dress Codes.  For example when is it appropriate to break them or to follow them.  Our guest mod is our very own Lady Dragon!!  She has been on DM about two and a half years now and has been active in the Aiel, BT, and SG!

 

 

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The men who come to the Black Tower is from different parts of Randland, they are of all ages, have worked in different fields, some are rich and some are poor. On a first look they don´t seem to have much in common. But as soon as they put on the black uniform they become soldiers of the Black Tower. When you see a man in the black uniform you know that this is someone who fights for the Dragon, someone that will learn how to channel (and thus will probably go mad) and someone who are willing to fight in the Last Battle. The uniform makes you a part of something bigger. 

 

The theme of this discussion is dress codes. There are so many things to say about this subject and I can´t mention it all of it but I will start and then you can fill in. Things that comes to my mind are:

 

1. Dress to show that you are part of a group. That is of course most obvious when it comes to uniforms. It can be military uniforms, school uniforms or a team uniform. But it can also be to show what music you like and what interests you have. 

 

2. Dress codes at work or school. Could be spoken or unspoken rules.

 

3. Dress to show your financial status or your place in the social hierarchy. 

 

4. How to dress at different parties/weddings etc. 

 

 

People do not only dress to mend in but also to stick out. Sometimes the way you dress is a protest against society or a certain group. The way you dress is also a way to show your personality and make you an individual. 

 

So write whatever you like about this subject. Is it important how to dress or are clothes just there to warm you? Is it important to follow dress codes or are they just silly? Tell us about how you have thought about it in different situations. Maybe you follow the dress codes in one group but not in another? 

 

It would also be fun to see a discussion about school uniforms. In many parts of the world school uniforms are mandatory. What are the pros and cons? 

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Clothes are there to warm you...in winters at least. In summers they serve purpose when you keep forgetting handkerchiefs.

 

I believe that uniforms should be mandatory. I know some are going to hate me for saying this but its true. Uniforms show which school you belong to and save the trouble of finding a pair of clothes which are not too crumpled.

 

Normally there is a dress code for every group. Usually it is unspoken but most follow it. I know a group of friends who turn up in dresses/skirts to parties. My friend and I usually wear jeans and a top which depends on our individual personality. Like I wear long mid thigh length tops.

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I have attended a school where uniforms were mandated, private school K-8, and it wasn't too bad but when I went to high school I changed to a public school and also believe that the ability to express one's personality through their clothing is an important thing as well... So I guess I see both sides of the equation and believe that uniforms have their place in society but should not be allowed to completely limit one's individuality.

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Most schools over here have mandated school uniform. for me this is a great idea, it means parents who are not so wealthy aren't so pressured into buying the latest (expensive) trainers or labels.  For parents, it's easier to wash, iron (so many are iron free for uniform skirts and trousers). They show which school they belong to, so if they decide to get up to stuff when on the way home from school, they are easily identified. It is also very practical. 

 

As for uniforms for work. Twice I have been in jobs where I have worn a uniform. It was brilliant. It saved all my clothes for when I wanted to go out. I didn't have to wake in the morning and decide what to wear, depending on what was in the wash and not. So much easier. both job provided the uniform free as well. So only had to spend money on going our clothes. 

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I find that dress code might be useful in some cases. I detest our dress code policy at our company, however. We are working in back office (programming and such) and they would deny us wearing shorts and such, especially bad at summer.

 

I just don't follow it. I don't care what they want, really. This place sucks anyway.

 

As for dressing in general, I don't care how I look, I go for comfort. I'd wear shorts, slippers (or barefoot) at spring/summer/autumn; tracksuit in winter and people are entitled to stick their opinion where they want to :)

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I work in the Courts and spent 5 years at the Supreme Court of NSW so you better believe I had to follow a dress code. Collared shirt dress pants and Black closed in shoes. When acting as a court officer in the Court add a blazer and tie and I couldnt go into a court room   even to just deliver a file with my hair down. Fridays was mufti day  as long as you were not on the counter or had to potentially go to court. But even that was dictated   had to be black jeans  no openb toed shoes.  By dictated i mean for the men. Women not much at all except for the shoes. 

 

So of course i never got to do mufti fridays lol. If i was set up as i sometimes was to be doing NOTHING but haul boxes in the basement then i could get away with tshirt and jeans    no shorts but i was not allowed to set foot on a level higher then 5. One day dressed like this and covered in dust a supervisor made me deliver boxes to a court. I couldnt get out of it they said the judge was not in there i just had to go in back and drop off the boxes. Well i open the door and not only is court still in session but they are interviewing a witness!!! I dropped the boxes super quick and bailed. then started to freak that i was gonna get shot. Found out from the judges associate that a) he thought it was hilarious and b) dont do that again. You can imagine what i was thinking about the supervisor!

 

Now i work at a call centre taking calls for the courts and still have to dress the same. Except i get mufti on fridays now. Like Csarmi i dont really get the point...we dont ever SEE clients but as the rules are Department wide i cant really whinge.

 

In school the only problem i had was the tie. I liked the uniform cause i was poor and this way i didnt get hassled about my clothes

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I might be Lady Dragon in here but in real life I´m no lady. I don´t like to dress up too much. I love my dresses but I rather wear them with sneakers or boots than high heels. Most teachers can dress how they want to here but in the school I work at right now I feel that there are a lot of unspoken rules about how to dress. I have a hard time with that. I want to wear clothes that I like. I don´t want to dress differently just to look "grown up" (even though I am). lol  I can´t say that I have a certain style that I like other than that I have a lot of black clothes. 

 

I understand the reasons for wearing school uniforms but we have never had that here. It would look really wrong with kids in school uniforms. To me it´s also about what kind of school you want to have. Is it a school where you learn to think for yourself or is it a school where everyone should just follow orders? I guess it is just different traditions. I would not like to look like everyone else. 

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Well when I was in High School we held a protest about the wearing of uniforms. We find the rules to be arbitrary and quite suppressive as it totally depends on the school to enforce this rules. It is not the law. The outcome was we won and the wearing of uniforms became a choice rather than the rule.

It means that school wear became a mean of self expression and some people like to express themselves as vampire and come to school in the full regalia.

 

So really it had its drawback mainly finding what to wear in the mornings. Luckily at that time I was living with four other girls so we tend to swap clothes and that kept it fresh and invidualistic enough to satisfy the sneering artistic ones. From there we learn to make clothes and sourced the markets for the most original costumes we could find. Every thing became a costume after awhile.

 

I tend to wear block colours then like wanting to be pure one week and just wear pristine white clothes. One of my 'sister' had a thing about wacky head gear and wore a bike shorts with feathers stuck to it at one stage. She denies ever having done this when I reminded her.

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In a way not wearing the official school uniform becomes a uniform in itself as the clothes people tend to wear signal what group they belong to. For example the surfer boys would wear a lot of Billabongs and the sporty girls would wear sweats and so on.

 

Beside our uniform was really ugly and the bogan girls would roll the skirt up really high so you could practically see their lunch when they bend down and the rather thick rolls of the skirt on their stomach. Not a good look and that was one of the point that won the teachers over.

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My school had that problem some years ago. They changed uniform(for seniors) to salwar kameez and its hard to tamper with that uniform. I am lucky that I didn't got it till now. Most other school have variations as uniform for whole high school.

 

When you hear about how my school oppresses, uniforms is least of it. We don't even have a choice in most things. Teachers would refuse to teach but take hard test if we don't behave(what is disbehaving for us is normal behaviour in some schools). After uniform, there are too many rules like hair in plait or two plaits(till grade 8). Ribbons in primary school. Tie so up that its almost suffocating. And nothing happens if we rebel except teachers never give marks for anything. "you don't want to wear it? Fine, we will give you so less marks that you fail and wear uniforms longer". Never actually happened but what happens is quite close

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I had hoped to get more activity in this thread. Maybe we could discuss another question. Many teenagers dress in a way to show that they are against society or grownups in general. It could be torn clothes etc. But when a lot of people do it then it often become socialy acceptable. Also, the teenagers grows up and remembers how it was when they were young. They tend to be more acceptant than the generation before. The teenagers then have to find a new way to dress to get attention. What do you think about this? Is anything chocking anymore? 

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In my opinion dress codes are only proper when it comes to certain things. The most particular one being the military, because it's understandable why they do it. No one is going to take a fighting force seriously when they look like a bunch of non-matching, unkempt and inappropriate loons (well except here at the BT :P). Next is certain jobs, like in the business world, the medical field, things of that nature. I think some liberties should be allowed to be taken, but nothing too crazy. You want to be taken seriously in what it is you do for a living. Then when it comes to school, it makes sense to have somewhat of a code especially for up to middle school/junior high age. But in high school I think the dress codes can be a bit ridiculous.

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eh i hate my school uniform i mean my school picked the cheapest cloth they could find, and they dont even tailor it, no they tell you to tailor it, so i pay money for the fabric, and you arent allowed anything other than the uniform, i remember when my friend came in jeans, he was asked to go home and change or to face suspension for "breaking school rules", the only time of the year i like my uniform is during winter, cuz i can just where a hoodie and hide the horrible uniform..

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As a teacher working in a low socio-economic area, I see that uniforms take a lot of pressure of poorer students. When they are all dressed the same, they (theoretically) are all treated the same. They have a choice of hair colour/cut and piercings etc if they really want to stand out, but teenagers tend to follow their friends anyway, so most don't deviate much from the "traditional" look.

I had to wear school uniform for  13 years and, while I hated it at the time, once I left school and had to choose clothes each day for uni and work, I wished I had a uniform back. I worked in a call centre for a bank once, and like dicetosser1, we had to dress in business-like attire. Never saw customers - just spoke to them over the phone. Would have been better to be comfortable in casual clothes then.

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having simlar dress has tradionatly been way to idntify other member of yuor comunity/culture/tribe - howevre, the key word there is similar, not the same; up into presnt times, the phenonmenon of dressing identicaly was a device usually only occuring by certin religious organistions (such as monasteries) as a meanss to make an ascetic statement besids striping them of individuality in servicce to their god(s), and militaries (thuogh even then, there are rank insignias to give distinction, and the main purpose of uniformm or common symbols in miltary is so that thos on the same side can easilly identify you [and later with militaris of industrial contries, it became a meanss to help strip you of indivdulity and estblish a group identity and complete cohesion similar to th religious aim of uniformm, unliek the classic, anarchic tribal warrior]). In most othre incidents up until modern times, then, clothinng wuold be similar but not identical, just for th purpose of idnetifying yuo to the local gruop - embelishments unique to the individual could be addedd to the clothing to acentuate their individuality amongstt the larger group.

 

The way I see itt then, uniforms, i.e. identical dress,, serves only thh purpose of insuringg evryone easily knows who you are in high tensionn situations such as in military uniform, or else of stripping the individul of their idnetity for one reason or anothre, whethre as punishmnt (as in gaols) or to create a fervent gruop identity (as in religon or military or in similar gruops). As schooll and work does nott require to quicklly identify othres with bullets flyin ovre your head or swords clashing evrywhere, and Im asuming one is not suposed to feel zealous abuot ones school or job (most peple I meet dont anywyas), I see no point to identical dress in eithre arena. Similar dress, yes, and some profesions seem to go with similarr dress rathre than identical (liek saying yuo cant wear jeans or casal shoes or tee-shirts, but evyrthing else is fine), and of cuorse similar idntifies the culture or gruop your part of, but not identical - as I stated, I am only familarr with uniforms beingg used for military purposes and de-individualising purposes in societies thruoghout history, and so for societies who claim they are quite free (such as Western societis) to utilise uniforms as a clear method of de-indivualisin people in their youth in an institution that is usualy involuntary (nowdays, its go to school or theyl arrest yuor parents or some othre penal action) is very farcical (but of cuorse theyre ideas that they are usualy "free" societies are illusions anywys so i guess hardly unexpected). In private institutions, I thinkk that quite aceptable - you are subscribin to be having yuor outward identity taken from yuo when you go there of yuor own free will, just as you subscribe to that whn you join a military or a religious oranigstion or other voluntary organisation (such as a job) - Normally Im suposed to wear very similar dress to othre people in the priesthood but I subscribd to that, even i I cannot back out now, no one forced me to do it. However, it has no place in public institutions that yuo are being forced to participatte in, so Im obviously aginst enforced public schooll uniform.  I dont care if they justify it withh well, its for th poorer peoplle to feel more equal and not be targgeted - people arent equal unless you live in a tribal society, and evn then people are recognised for their unique personalties and abilities, thats a cold hard fact of life and it does no good makin people think its othrewise but then have th reality crash down sudenly on them when they reach adulthood, besides thatt fact yuo shuoldnt be forcing anyone to dress in a wayy they dont want to (unles like I said, its punishmnt or your volunteerd for it). I guess what it coms tdown to then is havin choice in the matter; if yuo volunteer for th paticulur institution then yuo obviously are ok with whatevre gos with it, including uniform, but if you do not volunter for th institution, yuo shuold have some right to say what you wear to taht institution, for takin away that righht in my opinion is just blatant means to controll people more and somwhat punishment like jail, wheree you are not allowd a choice in much any mattres. 

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I have to disagree that uniforms do not have a place when you are forced to do something (like school). try being a parent with little income and having to pay for trendy clothes so you kids don't get bullied, because they can't afford the latest gear, in fact it puts more emphasis on those who have and those who have not. It also identifies the kids to where they belong or should be, great for school excursions and keeping the children safer than if they were all in different clothes. Allows them to identify themselves with something, especially when other schools are doing the same activity. 

 

I would say that all schools, from first year until 16 wear uniform in the UK, and there is never a problem. It maybe a pain, but as someone said, once you leave that environment of wearing the same thing everyday and have to have a larger wardrobe for work/college, it's a lot more expensive and more of a pain. 

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I have to disagree that uniforms do not have a place when you are forced to do something (like school). try being a parent with little income and having to pay for trendy clothes so you kids don't get bullied, because they can't afford the latest gear, in fact it puts more emphasis on those who have and those who have not. It also identifies the kids to where they belong or should be, great for school excursions and keeping the children safer than if they were all in different clothes. Allows them to identify themselves with something, especially when other schools are doing the same activity. 

 

I would say that all schools, from first year until 16 wear uniform in the UK, and there is never a problem. It maybe a pain, but as someone said, once you leave that environment of wearing the same thing everyday and have to have a larger wardrobe for work/college, it's a lot more expensive and more of a pain. 

 

Im not sayin theyy dont serve a useful function - Im saying theyy shuold not be mandatory, whatevre theyre justification, whethre to make th poorerr people hav highre self esteem or wahtever else, as no one shuold have the right to tell yuo what you can and cant wearr unless yuo volunteered for that organisation/group/instirtution, as in most modrn militaris or a religous orgnisation, etc. So whethre they hav a useful function, I hardlly care abuot - its not worth it at th expnse of being able to choose or bein forced to do thiis or that in my opinion. And for th record, I am a parent withh relativly litle income by th larger cultures standards, but I solve any problm my son might hav for his religiouus or cultural diferences, clothing included, by simply homescholing him and instiling in him confidence and th idea that it doesnt matter what outsidre children say to him, and if any of thm he ever meet gives him truoble, sock them in th mouth and they wont do it again. That is anothre reson I feel very stronggly and hostile towrds schools, as they wuold also take away the choice of whn and how I educate my son if I let them, with no regardds to my culture, so I draw strict,, perhaps what perople would call extreme, lines over surendering freedoms jsutt for convenince or expediency or whatevre else.

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It's great you can home school him, but a majority of parents can't do this, whether in time, nor in money (it's not cheap if you can't do it yourself) so you don't have that problem. Sorry, but I just totally disagree. Nothing wrong with being told what to wear for a school. It also comes down to instilling discipline, and it doesn't hurt the kids at all,  you may get the odd moan, but most are quite happy. They can show they individuality when they go out, either to play or with friends. it's not like it is all the time, just whilst at a school. They will have to learn to except rules of the company etc where they work, no matter what the dress code, this one lesson in learning that at times you have to abide the establishment you work/school in. It's a good lesson. 

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It's great you can home school him, but a majority of parents can't do this, whether in time, nor in money (it's not cheap if you can't do it yourself) so you don't have that problem. Sorry, but I just totally disagree. Nothing wrong with being told what to wear for a school. It also comes down to instilling discipline, and it doesn't hurt the kids at all,  you may get the odd moan, but most are quite happy. They can show they individuality when they go out, either to play or with friends. it's not like it is all the time, just whilst at a school. They will have to learn to except rules of the company etc where they work, no matter what the dress code, this one lesson in learning that at times you have to abide the establishment you work/school in. It's a good lesson. 

work and schooll is not th same thing - workk is a voluntaryy institution, meaningg you of cuorse can choose to workk for othre people or no one at alll, so when yuo go to your job, your there on a voluntary basis (no ones goin to arrest you if yuo dont work at a certain place...yet) and therfore you are agreein to be subject to their rules evn if you dont quite like all of them, its completly in yoir power to leave if you cant stand it, whiel shcool is often involuntary (maybbe not there but I know here and som othre places yuo will get in truoble if you dont send your child to schooll whatevre cultural reason you hav against it). nether should they be implied in th same sentencee in my opinion, becuse thats one thing I feel is wronng with education today - it is sennn as merely preping you to join th corporate world, and hence triaging areas of education that are veryy valuble in enhancingg human thought and experience but nott in maintainin a job or other practical things, rathre than stresing knowledge is for th sake of knowldge, i.e. applied verseus purism.  Thats anothre discusion though. But like I mentionedd before, the very princple of being told waht you can and cannot wear at a place a person has no choice but to attnd - i.e. lack of choice which one did not wilfuly subscribe to as one dos at a job or if yuo join a priesthood or military, etc. - is apaling to me; that people think thts quite aceptable, not havin choice, doesnt bode well for th future. This is my opinionn thuogh and of course can disagree - i wuold almost not care abuot the issue if was not a constannt threat for me and my own becuse other people want to force this on on me and my own.

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I had to wear skirts covering my knees (when mini skirts came back into fashion they had to make a rule about how many inches above the knee they could be and the man that walked around with a ruler to measure that enjoyed the job too much).

 

I had to wear tights because it was thought that wearing knee socks would cause the hemlines to get higher. I didn't and not understand that, but perhaps what was meant was bare leg might show. bare leg was forbidden. bare feet, never. no sandals, no sneakers.

 

I had to wear sleeves that covered my elbow, and collars that covered my collarbone.

 

on Fridays blue skirt and white top.

 

the boys had to wear ties October through may.

 

that was bad enough, and to this day I'm uncomfortable in skirts.

 

a uniform that stripped what little free will I was still allowed would have been the last straw.

 

as for saving money, those things are much more expensive than regular clothes here, and you can still tell rich from poor by how often they have to wash the single uniform they can afford and how small it is as their parents try to put off buying the next size.

 

there are many other ways the rich kids lord it over the poor ones. uniforms might make a parents job easier in some small respect, eliminate one source of contention... but that struggle for individuality and freedom of expression and straining against adult demands is part of what makes us separate from our families and grow up to be ourselves.

 

it was a small, daily battle and if I'd been able to win it ever, at all, I might have been able to gain some confidence in my own judgment and skip the really big lifelong battles that followed.

 

clothes, hair, makeup... these things are temporary. let them do what they want as long as it's not putting them in danger. let go of the clothes battle, the whole controlling appearance battle. save the struggle for things that matter. IMO.

 

lol, we have dress ode at work but I don't care if I show up in pajamas nor does anyone else.

 

the code, in part, prohibits provocative clothing, skirts too short, necklines too low,

 

and it will never be enforced in a million years.

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