Ten days after Samhain, 1057: Night 5 (CONCLUDED)

[Darthe]

A DEADLINE HAS BEEN SET.

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130720T13&p0=745&msg=Night

 

You have 72 hours and 8 minutes.

[Nolder]

 

Verbal: do whatcha gotta do bromie.

 

Csarmi: Yeah kind of. As town I cannot let suspicious behavior go unnoted and as it's Day 1 it seemed prudent to follow up that notation with voting. Had I just ignored it I would be doing so with the danger of someone else noticing and doing exactly what I did and also noting later that I ignored it, making me just as suspicious as you if not more so. Why would I put myself in that position? Why would I stick my neck out like that and ignore your behavior in the first place?

 

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying here?  I read this as you wanted to ensure you followed the crowd to not stand out and raise suspicion.

 

As I said in my post, kind of. I think of it more as "doing my duty" than anything else.

As a townie I need to point out scummy behavior not just in an attempt to catch scum myself but also to broadcast my "towniness" to other townies.

That way if it comes down to say 3 way lylo and I'm in it I'll have hopefully played a good enough game that whoever the other townie is knows I am also town.

And no btw it wasn't following the crowd. I was the first person to point it out.

[Verbal32]

 

 

Verbal: do whatcha gotta do bromie.

 

Csarmi: Yeah kind of. As town I cannot let suspicious behavior go unnoted and as it's Day 1 it seemed prudent to follow up that notation with voting. Had I just ignored it I would be doing so with the danger of someone else noticing and doing exactly what I did and also noting later that I ignored it, making me just as suspicious as you if not more so. Why would I put myself in that position? Why would I stick my neck out like that and ignore your behavior in the first place?

 

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying here?  I read this as you wanted to ensure you followed the crowd to not stand out and raise suspicion.

 

As I said in my post, kind of. I think of it more as "doing my duty" than anything else.

As a townie I need to point out scummy behavior not just in an attempt to catch scum myself but also to broadcast my "towniness" to other townies.

That way if it comes down to say 3 way lylo and I'm in it I'll have hopefully played a good enough game that whoever the other townie is knows I am also town.

And no btw it wasn't following the crowd. I was the first person to point it out.

 

 

No, you weren't.  I was.  I just checked all 3 threads - I called him a "Copy & pasting sonnuva....." at 5:01pm.  You started quoting his posts and voting a few minutes later.

 

Just sayin'.

[bgrishinko]

See, here's my issue with your arguement Csarmi and I think Serra and Verb have pointed out a little, but I want to reiterate.

 

You are saying two completely seperate things here:

 

1. The cross-game start was an intentional trap to get the game moving and was a planned out strategy

2. The votes were joke votes during RVS (*adds new term to mafia back pocket*) and you thought it would be funny to start all the games the same.

 

Those two notions are contradictory, yet you seem to be arguing for both which leads me to believe you are lying and making stuff up.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay catching up now. Surprisingly not as hungover as I thought I would be.

 

Anyone wanna fill me in while I catch up?

[Nolder]

 

 

 

Verbal: do whatcha gotta do bromie.

 

Csarmi: Yeah kind of. As town I cannot let suspicious behavior go unnoted and as it's Day 1 it seemed prudent to follow up that notation with voting. Had I just ignored it I would be doing so with the danger of someone else noticing and doing exactly what I did and also noting later that I ignored it, making me just as suspicious as you if not more so. Why would I put myself in that position? Why would I stick my neck out like that and ignore your behavior in the first place?

 

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying here?  I read this as you wanted to ensure you followed the crowd to not stand out and raise suspicion.

 

As I said in my post, kind of. I think of it more as "doing my duty" than anything else.

As a townie I need to point out scummy behavior not just in an attempt to catch scum myself but also to broadcast my "towniness" to other townies.

That way if it comes down to say 3 way lylo and I'm in it I'll have hopefully played a good enough game that whoever the other townie is knows I am also town.

And no btw it wasn't following the crowd. I was the first person to point it out.

 

 

No, you weren't.  I was.  I just checked all 3 threads - I called him a "Copy & pasting sonnuva....." at 5:01pm.  You started quoting his posts and voting a few minutes later.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Wouldn't call that the same thing. Yours comes off as a joke. Mine comes off as an accusation.

[bgrishinko]

Unvote

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

Verbal: do whatcha gotta do bromie.

 

Csarmi: Yeah kind of. As town I cannot let suspicious behavior go unnoted and as it's Day 1 it seemed prudent to follow up that notation with voting. Had I just ignored it I would be doing so with the danger of someone else noticing and doing exactly what I did and also noting later that I ignored it, making me just as suspicious as you if not more so. Why would I put myself in that position? Why would I stick my neck out like that and ignore your behavior in the first place?

 

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying here?  I read this as you wanted to ensure you followed the crowd to not stand out and raise suspicion.

 

As I said in my post, kind of. I think of it more as "doing my duty" than anything else.

As a townie I need to point out scummy behavior not just in an attempt to catch scum myself but also to broadcast my "towniness" to other townies.

That way if it comes down to say 3 way lylo and I'm in it I'll have hopefully played a good enough game that whoever the other townie is knows I am also town.

And no btw it wasn't following the crowd. I was the first person to point it out.

 

 

No, you weren't.  I was.  I just checked all 3 threads - I called him a "Copy & pasting sonnuva....." at 5:01pm.  You started quoting his posts and voting a few minutes later.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Wouldn't call that the same thing. Yours comes off as a joke. Mine comes off as an accusation.

 

 

Fair enough.

[csarmi]

Okay, just a few thoughts I had when going home.

 

1) You're going at this from the wrong direction. I promised that I was town in all three games. Prove me I'm scum in one, and you can lynch me for being an LLL in all three of them.

2) Lynching someone three times to test whether he's scum in at least one of them is as silly as trying a witch by keeping her underwater: if she doesn't survive, she wasn't a witch afterall.

2) The BPV I have in T2 is actually much more useful as it seems at first sight - and the longer the game goes, the more powerful it gets.

[Niniel]

See, here's my issue with your arguement Csarmi and I think Serra and Verb have pointed out a little, but I want to reiterate.

 

You are saying two completely seperate things here:

 

1. The cross-game start was an intentional trap to get the game moving and was a planned out strategy

2. The votes were joke votes during RVS (*adds new term to mafia back pocket*) and you thought it would be funny to start all the games the same.

 

Those two notions are contradictory, yet you seem to be arguing for both which leads me to believe you are lying and making stuff up.

 

 

Unvote

 

You think he is lying and making up stuff, yet you unvote?

[csarmi]

BG is having a weird game, I have to readup the three threads. His argument earlier on "letting me live in at least in one thread" was strange and now a few more things.

[csarmi]

See, here's my issue with your arguement Csarmi and I think Serra and Verb have pointed out a little, but I want to reiterate.

 

You are saying two completely seperate things here:

 

1. The cross-game start was an intentional trap to get the game moving and was a planned out strategy

2. The votes were joke votes during RVS (*adds new term to mafia back pocket*) and you thought it would be funny to start all the games the same.

 

Those two notions are contradictory, yet you seem to be arguing for both which leads me to believe you are lying and making stuff up.

Why are they contradictory? Why can't it be both? Wait, one thing with two meanings, intentions, interpretations? That's impossible for sure.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay I'm hoping that now that I'm caught up in one thread, and there's an obvious meta-strategy thing going on with the tri-lynch on CSarmi, the other catchups should go quicker hopefully. Either way I'll try and keep my responses short to each of these:

 

Vote Csarmi

 

Let's just run him up and see what comes out of it.

 

INCREDIBRU scummy post here. Attempt at leading the town, and apparently wants to blind lynch someone regardless of any claim.

 

FOS.

 

Hey y'all. I read the three threads and I gotta say that, for the most part, I have to agree with what Nolder, Yates, and people have been saying. We'll probably have about 5/6 scum per thread, which is about 1/4. If we can identify someone who is certainly scum in at least one of the games, our optimal strategy is to start lynching him in the game in which he is scummiest. If he flips scum, it isn't particularly likely that he'll flip scum again, so it's better to refocus on someone else, whereas if he flips town, that only increases the chance of him being scum in the other games.

 

As to Cserna: he deliberately started his three threads in the same manner - with the exact same phrasing, in fact. If he were town in all three threads, his natural thought process wouldn't be to determine how to convince people of the fact that he is the same in all three, but rather he would react naturally and fluidly to what had been posted. His uniformity across the threads is forced as f anything. I'm certain he's scum in at least one of his threads, if not two, so starting by lynching him in his scummiest thread is really our best move at this point.

 

Cserna, would you be willing to claim the game(s) in which you are scum? If you do, we'll lynch you there, and since it would then be disadvantageous for us to lynch you elsewhere, leave you alive in your other game(s). If you do not claim a game in which you are scum, we will start lynching according to popular opinion, so probably with this thread, until we hit scum. Look at this as a compromise:  rather than lose 2 or even 3 slots (depending on how well we read you), you can survive today with 2 slots intact.

 

I very much intend to vote Cserna once I have a good idea about which thread I'd most rather see him lynched and preferably once he's responded to my question.

 

Given the entirely cross-thread nature of the case for voting Cserna, I'm a bit surprised by the difference between the wagons on him (Gosh this is unusual terminology :/). I'll look at his wagons and see whether I can find potential scumbuddies wanting to avoid an early bus. I'll have to rely on you guys for helping me out with meta about that. I assume most of you have played with each other and can at least suggest whether others would join an early wagon to get their scumbuddy lynched. I know Ree and Yates wouldn't hesitate joining an early bus wagon, but I know many people that would.

 

Once I see a useful way to differentiate the three threads, I'll start posting isolated reads for each thread, but from a first readthrough, Cserna was my primary interest, and I think all that remains is deciding where to lynch him first.

 

Also a pretty scummy post imo. Overjustification of reasoning, but the main thing that stood out to me is the awful probability theory that CSarmi is scum in one thread only, and to just lynch him in one if he flips scum in that lynch. He could be scum in all 3 for all you know.

 

This strongly makes me believe Serra is Csarlami's scumbuddy in one of the threads. Imo, lynch Csarlami in all 3, and then there's an OUSTANDING chance Serra is scum in one or more of the threads that Csarlami flips scum in.

 

I think these are the current VC's for Cserna:

 

Thread 1: Salami (10/12): Leelou, Cloud, Nol, Yates, Verb, Ishy, Razen , BG, Dap, Krak

Thread 2: Salami (7/12): Nolder, Cloud, Yates, Verb, Leelou, Razen, Dap, 

 

Thread 3: Salami (8/12): Nol, Yates, Verb, Leelou, Razen, Cloud, Peace, Dap

 

This is less interesting than I'd hoped. The Peace vote in 3 is the worst, but not by much, really. It's quite likely that Ishy, Verbal and Yates AREN'T Cserna's buddy in the respective game where he RVS'ed them. If he's going to bother maintaining uniformity like that, I'd bet he would also avoid that sort of association with his buddies. Each Cserna-flip would thus come with an additional prob-town slot, which is a pretty good incentive if you aren't convinced yet.

 

[insert confused Jackie Chan face here]

 

Train analysis without an alignment on anyone yet? And knowing that there's a cross thread meta strategy going on?

 

Yeah... FOS.

 

 

Csarlami

 

 

 

Rofl I was thinking the exact same thing

 

 

once huge difference.  By your own admission you purposely posted the same way in all 3 threads which means you were actively conscience of how you were coming across and trying to establish a common meta.  No reason to take that approach if you are town in all 3 games.

I wasn't trying to establish a common meta. Not sure how anyone could think so.

Just how exactly do you think my copy-pasted posts help me do that? Please, enlighten me.

 

 

irl at this post. How would saying the exact same thing in three diff threads be masking meta? I wonder...

 

 

 

Are you going to explain that or just vanish?

 

You lurking or stalking?

 

 

*nod*

 

 

Are you going to explain that or just vanish?

 

Sure. I've read up this thread and I found your posts suspicious. They don't add up to me, somehow. Don't expect a case, it's Day 1. Keep smiling, scum.

 

 

 

Lazy attempt at casing there man. If you really wanted to save town a "mislynch" in any of the threads you'd do more than say "Yeah some of this dude's post don't add up to me".

 

 

 

Are you going to explain that or just vanish?

 

Sure. I've read up this thread and I found your posts suspicious. They don't add up to me, somehow. Don't expect a case, it's Day 1. Keep smiling, scum.

 

 

atleast explain what that means!

 

your failed attempt at moving suspicion towards me is noted  

 

 

 

Why do you feel it necessary to "note" that? Slight fos.

 

In chronological order:

 

I actually quite like Csarmi1 early on, he reacts well to the first vote by leelou. This breaks down once he gets voted in all 3 threads, but I don't think that's because he's scum here.

 

Clouds post about Csarmi are the closest to scumhunting in the thread as of page 3. He can be town in this one.

 

Yates not commenting about anything going on here is off. I'd expect more.

 

Peace engaging with Csarmi when he didn't really have to is town. There's enough noise going around that scum could easily start off coasting.

 

Is lolguy = chuckles?

 

If yes, I don't really get Csarmi's vote. Csarmi, just putting it down to your gut feeling is a cop out. If not a full case, can you at least point to some posts you didn't like?

 

Dap, how come you don't like me in this thread? All of my posts so far except this one had been global, I just so happened to choose thread 1 to compile them. I'd understand if you disagree with my points as a whole, but it's weird you'd give me a thread-specific read based on them.

 

Defends both Csarlami and Cloud early, two I found scummy in my catchup, but I'm more concerned with the bolded: That is doing EXACTLY what people are saying is scummy from Csarlami, attempting to mask meta in all three threads.

 

Incidentally, this isn't a terrible idea, but it's even more useful to someone who's scum in at least one thread.

 

So yeah, pretty sure Serra is scum in at least one thread. Haven't read the other threads yet, but he's pinging greatly to me in this one.

 

 

 

So you say that early play and a lot of discussion helps town, but then you call my reasoning for voting for you scummy? I also find it amusing that you first mention that your votes across the three threads were a trap, and then it was just a townie move because they have nothing to hide, and now they are joke votes? Make up your mind dude.

 

 

You look a bit overeager. 

 

 

I agree with this post.

 

I have only caught up in this thread yet. Lynching Csarmi in all threads are based on:

 

1. Csarmi tried to play exactely the same in all three games and that is a reason to believe that he wants to hide as scum in at least one of them.

 

2. Everyone will be mafia in at least one thread.

 

 

 

1. Well it could be. But those that choose to vote him in every thread use this as an excuse to behave just the same - hiding themself by playing exactely the same in each game. So to me it looks like there are scum trying to use their votes on Csarmi to hide their own meta. 

 

2. I have heard of a few exceptions but the majority of mods use random.org when they asign roles. So I don´t think it´s true that you need to be mafia in at least one thread. 

 

 

What if Csarmi is town in all threads? What have we learned from day 1? If we are all going to play exactely the same in all of the games then why play three games at all? I will try to see this is as three games.

 

Also, why would someone admit that they are mafia in one thread to get away in the other games? We all play for three victories. We want to help our teams win in each thread. This is also based on the assumption that you are probably both town and mafia. But there could be players that are town in all the games and there could be players that are mafia in all games. 

 

 

I will read the other threads. I don´t know if I end up voting Csarmi in one of them or not but I think that the reasons that people use to vote him is bad. 

 

Bolded is an excellent point.

 

Underlined would have been nice, but it seems too late for that at this point. I'm sure the threads will end up having diff flows and feel after a few days and alignments are uncovered, but early on I think cross-meta will prob be the word of the day

 

Italics is something I hadn't really seen anyone say. I think you might have misunderstood some of the reasoning on Csarlami's lynch. I don't think people voting him think everyone is scum in at least one game (which is I think impossible as Dap pointed out), they're saying Csarlami's attempt to mask meta means there's a good chance that he's scum in at least one thread.

 

 

No, you weren't.  I was.  I just checked all 3 threads - I called him a "Copy & pasting sonnuva....." at 5:01pm.  You started quoting his posts and voting a few minutes later.

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

Arguing for who started a lynch on someone is really dumb.

 

"I should get more townie cred!"

 

"No I should get more townie cred!"

 

[hazelkrs1]

Vote Csarlami

 

Top picks for scum so far in this thread:

 

Csarlami

Serra

Cloud

 

And yes, at this point we should lynch Csarlami in all three threads. Don't stop after 1 scum flip, and don't hesitate if he flips town in 2. If you're going to commit to cross-meta strategy, you gotta go full throttle. Just saw that he apparently claimed a BPV in T2... looks like that could be the one he's trying to save his bacon in the most (the BPV grows stronger the longer yall leave me alive, just trust me yall), but then again that could be a gambit to save his skin in one of the others

[hazelkrs1]

Hmmm that was red in my post window thingy

 

Vote Csarlami

 

Okay on the next thread

[Hallia]

You mention the bpv in the second thread, and just regular town in the other two - It seems to me you wouldn't want scum to know about that, it does work as a potential deterrent for town though. If you are mafia in any thread I'd be most suspicious of that one.

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

 

 

 

Salami (10/12): Leelou, Cloud, Nol, Yates, Verb, Ishy, Razen , Dap, Krak, Des

Verb (1/12): Crusher

Chuckles (1/12): Salami

Not Voting (11/23):
Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Lenlo, Peace, Tiink, Tina, Ree, Pral, Serra, BG

[csarmi]

Well, goodnight all.

[John E. Kelley]

Unvote.

[bgrishinko]

 

See, here's my issue with your arguement Csarmi and I think Serra and Verb have pointed out a little, but I want to reiterate.

 

You are saying two completely seperate things here:

 

1. The cross-game start was an intentional trap to get the game moving and was a planned out strategy

2. The votes were joke votes during RVS (*adds new term to mafia back pocket*) and you thought it would be funny to start all the games the same.

 

Those two notions are contradictory, yet you seem to be arguing for both which leads me to believe you are lying and making stuff up.

 

 

Unvote

 

You think he is lying and making up stuff, yet you unvote?

 

 

Don't think he could be scum in all 3 games, and the others are more convincing as scum to me currently.

 

BG is having a weird game, I have to readup the three threads. His argument earlier on "letting me live in at least in one thread" was strange and now a few more things.

 

Still think you should live in at least one thread. But I've changed my mind about which thread makes most sense to have you live in and which one you seem least scummy. Don't get me wrong, I still think your being contradictory with what you said in this thread, but I think I can try and see it from your point of view if I squint hard enough.

[Nolder]

Unvote.

scummy

[John E. Kelley]

 

Unvote.

 

scummy

Your face is scummy. I've already expressed my thoughts on your so-called tri-lynching plan. I won't be going along with it.

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

 

 

 

Salami (9/12): Leelou, Cloud, Nol, Yates, Verb, Razen, Dap, Krak, Des

Verb (1/12): Crusher

Chuckles (1/12): Salami

Not Voting (12/23):
Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Lenlo, Peace, Tiink, Tina, Ree, Pral, Serra, BG, Ishy

 

[Nolder]

 

 

Unvote.

scummy

Your face is scummy. I've already expressed my thoughts on your so-called tri-lynching plan. I won't be going along with it.

 

Exactly.

[bgrishinko]

I just reread through this thread with the express thought of "If we don't lynch Csarmi.... who should we lynch?" And I realized that there is actually no other viable alternative. An occasional blip in the radar here or there has someone saying somebody else is scummy without a lot of reasoning. Csarmi is mostly defending all the time. But most the arguments have been strictly based on cross-game meta. I went along here in T1 because it seemed like the thing to do at first, run someone up, see the pressure. I still don't think his explanation is fully satisfying, but I'll let it lie. 

 

So I've been rethinking some things.

 

Were are casing people and using the meta because its the new fancy thing we can do. We've never had something like this so we are all curious to poke at it with sticks to see how effective of a tool it is to be able to use current cross game meta. But I think this method is leading us to the fiery furnaces of damnation and loss for town in multiple games.

 

You see, its no secret that everyone is using meta to screw around with each other. Some will try and be consistent through all threads despite what team they are on. Some will try and be radically different. Some will just latch on and try and build entire cases on the fact that Nolder voted CS in this thread and not another... but the water is tainted and meta play won't work because it has all become the greatest stinking pile of WIFOM the world has ever known.

 

So. The only way to use Meta to our advantage here is to look at what the definition of it used to be before this abominable game... how we know people to normally act as town or mafia. Barring that, good ol' fashioned scum hunting. So what I find most odd is Dap's normal penchant for wanting competing trains to get the most info from a lynch. I realized we didn't get a ton of good info from T2 when CS flipped town and this game will be the same if we keep on our current path.